Dear Atheist

[Iloverock24]

Very well said Chad. You helped me become aware of more stuff that's going on in my life. My Mom and my cousin maybe athiest and she's not admitting it. Doesn't want me to find out. But I'm Christian. Anyways, this letter brightened my insite.

 

[iluvjesus]

Atheism: The belief that there was nothing and nothing happened to nothing and nothing magically exploded for no reason creating everything and then a bunch of everything magically rearranged itself for no reason whatsoever into self-replicating bits which then turned into dinosaurs. Makes perfect sense. <-- Hey, I like that!!

It's always been a burden for me to pray for atheists.

For all atheists out there, know that you should humble yourselves, knowing that you are just mere humans, unable to grasp EVERY possible knowledge and treating yourselves like gods. You always ask the reason "why" in a never-ending manner, skeptically attempting to resolve every God-given mystery using three pound worth of a human brain. The truth is, you will never succeed. God reigns more than your life, more than the world, more than science that you worship, even the big bang theory that is simply self-defeating. His ways are higher than ours, and so His thoughts. So don't even try to box the almighty God into your human knowledge.

 

[snowcatwnc1]

"People dont want to spend their limited time being talked down to and condemned. "

I once knew a preacher that spoke for forty minutes condemning a lot of people in the congregation for the way they dressed for Church.

 

[Dave4Christ]

Simply brilliant.

Simply brilliant. People need to understand the importance of the world beyond the empirical eye. There has to be an origin for all of this. The watchmaker behind the watch. The programmer behind the program. The administrator behind the forum. Cause and effect. Such explicit detail simply can't be written off to coincidence.

Great post my friend.

 

[Johan]

Very nice!

The world is too beautiful to be an accident. I find it quite interesting that evolutionists try to explain lots of things, and even though a few of their arguments would work, it's just so illogic that something so wonderful would be made out of nothing.

Just be careful about what arguments you use people! I noticed that some of your arguments were very incorrect, and I'd recommend only using philosophical arguments or arguments that you've read/heard about from several different sources.

 

[Zendra]

just a thinker

I agree with Johans last statement as was wondering if anyone would like to go through this to make sure future arguments are taken seriously by atheists or agnostics. I would try to respond in the way a sceptic would. I know this forum has long since died but if anybody's interested i think it would be a good idea.

 

[SpiritLedEd]

"People dont want to spend their limited time being talked down to and condemned. "

I once knew a preacher that spoke for forty minutes condemning a lot of people in the congregation for the way they dressed for Church.

I hope that believers take Snowcat's post seriously. In the name of spreading the gospel, many believers try to counter atheist/agnostic beliefs with fear-driven, hastily contrived spiels that accomplish nothing for the cause of Christ.

SLE

 

[Zendra]

I agree and when enough people do this it builds up a stereotype which will make people prejudge and actually reverse the original intent.

 

[Praiseius_Max]

atheists

I dont bother debating atheists.. i dont cast my pearls to swine

 

[SpiritLedEd]

Praiseius_max's pearls before swine citation is found in Matthew 7 (Mt 7:6) and is to be taken figuratively, not literally. The chapter begins with "Do not judge (condemn) or you will be judged (condemned)" (Mt 7:1 NIV). Jesus alone has the right to condemn and the condemnation will come on Judgement Day (Mt 25:31-46)

SLE

 

[Zendra]

Is it not best to try and open people to christ then to cast them as a lost cause?

 

[SpiritLedEd]

Your logic tells you that the building and the painting is proof there was a builder and a painter. How could they exist without it? Same goes with creation. Creation is proof there is a Creator. Logic tells us it cannot exist without one. If a mere building needs a builder, how much more does an intricate universe need a creator?

I'm not a scientist, but my mind does function at least somewhat logically and I find the Big Bang theory ludicrous because it seems to me that Big Bang theorists are clueless as to how the Big Bang could have come about. It is illogical to hamstring the search for answers to the issues creation raises by trying to eliminate a supreme creative intelligence from the discussion. That's like trying to explain how a tire supports the weight of an automobile without mentioning the air that is pumped into it.

While the C. S. Lewis quote about atheists and thieves might be considered harsh, it raises what I see as a valid point; that true atheists are humanists, wanting man to be at the center of creation, and they've dedicated their lives to that cause.

SLE

 

[Zendra]

Are you saying that all things are made intentionally. Has someone got a number of fans together to create wind?, are there little people inside you that cause you to snease? Not very good analogies i know but things can happen unintentionally and (correct me if i'm wrong) is the universe not called creation BECAUSE of the belief that there was a creator. With the big bang it is like shaking up a bottle of fizzy then opening it, scientists who work on it may actually be religious but often in research they need to be unbiased and work only with proved knowledge. Now with atheists i may not have a high knowledge about their opinions though i do know 2 and neither of them go out of their way to put humans as the most important, they just work with what they know and makes sense to them.

 

[SpiritLedEd]

things can happen unintentionally and (correct me if i'm wrong) is the universe not called creation BECAUSE of the belief that there was a creator.

Things can happen unintentionally if by "unintentionally", you mean unexplainable by man's knowledge. Yes, the universe is called "creation" because we believe that it is an ongoing creative act by a Supremely Intelligent Being.

SLE

 

[Zendra]

Uh sorry no i meant unintentionally as in that no one planned it. like finding a lost sock when looking for a t-shirt.

 

[Questioning]

Response to OP

Hi Chad. How are you?

I enjoyed your post, but as a non-believer (I guess I'm an atheist?) I consider none of those things you mentioned to be coincidences. Also, I don't think that any of the atheists I know would consider those things coincidences, either. Our universe operates according to laws, and as long as time is running forward, effects follow causes. The things you mention are all effects that follow causes, and that seems natural enough, right?

As to whether or not the universe is the effect of some cause, or whether it is somehow is not an effect of another cause, is still unknown. (As are any specific ways that this might happen). God believers (of whatever god) simply go an extra few steps and suppose a cause of the universe, and then suppose certain attributes that that universe-causer-god must have.. according to their own belief system.

But at any rate, I don't know of any atheists who would say that those things are just coincidences. I hope that this helps, as it is "straight from the horses mouth," so to speak.

 

[SpiritLedEd]

Welcome to TalkJesus, Questioning. Its unfortunate that many "Christians" (myself included until just a few years ago) looked askance at people who had grown up in church but begun to doubt some of the teachings they were hearing. As my pastor so wisely says, "Being a Christian does not mean you check your brain at the door on Sunday morning."

Here is an informative link that you might find helpful:

Ask Questions about College, Life, and God

Spirit Led Ed (SLE)

 

[Questioning]

Here is an informative link that you might find helpful:

Ask Questions about College, Life, and God

Spirit Led Ed (SLE)

Thanks for the link, SLE. Unfortunately I've seen similar information before and it only raises more questions for me.

Oh, and you made a comment before that I wanted to discuss. You said that you found the big bang to be ludicrous because scientists don't know how it came about. Doesn't it seem logical to study a process even if you don't know how that process began? Scientists study lots of organisms for long periods of time before they know exactly how the life cycle of that animal begins. I think you can consider and study a process without knowing how that process came to be within your space.

The big bang, as I understand it, is an ongoing process that is filled with directional signals. Using our universal constants and extrapolating from known data, it appears that all matter and energy was once condensed into a very small (comparatively), dense space. In that small and dense of a space, matter and even time did not exist as we understand matter and time. So, from our viewpoint, within this process, there was no "before" the big bang. We can't conceive of that, because of how important time is to our biology, but that's what the laws of physics say, and scripture certainly talks about existence that is too foreign for human minds to conceive.

There are some new tools that will be in place soon (telescopes/gravity detectors) that will tell us more about those first few milliseconds after the big bang. Perhaps that data will give us some great new information, but it's very unlikely that within that data there will be any clues as to where the energy came from or how it began to expand into the universe we know today. The current goal is to understand the expansion process better, not what caused it to "come about."

 

[Chad]

Thanks for the link, SLE. Unfortunately I've seen similar information before and it only raises more questions for me.

Interesting that proof and evidence is not enough for you.

CARM - Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry
Bible Questions Answered

Try this too:
Evidence & Bible Prophecy - Talk Jesus | Christian Forums

I cannot imagine you disregarding the facts mentioned in that forum's threads.

 

[Questioning]

Interesting that proof and evidence is not enough for you.

It depends on the quality of said "proof" and "evidence," but I'm curious as to your reply. I said that the information merely raises more questions, for me. Are you saying that having more proof and evidence (for whatever the topic) doesn't also raise more questions, for you? Doesn't careful consideration of any and all answers provided also raise many more questions?

I cannot imagine you disregarding the facts mentioned in that forum's threads.

I would have to know what concepts you are regarding as "facts" before I could comment on what you can or cannot imagine. I will take a look at the links you've listed, but I can't debate any of their claims here (per the rules of this forum) so I'm limited to only being able to tell you whether or not I found their material useful or relevant for me. Would you like me to notify you after I've read them or no?