Dear Atheist

[Zendra]

Simple. First, you cannot be "born christian" but you can be born-again. By claiming you are a Christian at one point means you are declaring to be born-again, just like Jesus says:

Ok then let me clarify. I was raised in Christian faith and attended church. That's what I meant by being born Christian. I also took being born again to mean that you accept the bible and Jesus when you were of a matured age.

You come to a Christian forum to argue, nothing else

I suppose I understand how you could think that but like I have said before, I simply wanted to put forward questions and problems that supposedly challenge Christian faith. I was hoping that solutions would be provided and I wouldn't have to choose between the scientific world and the Christian world. Though I think its still unfair to state what you believe my intentions are outright as fact.

So basically you have no respect for others' belief

When did I ever say that, I have plenty of respect for other's belief. My own mother's life changed for the better when she joined her new church.

Do you do the same on other non-Christian religious forums too or do you plainly just hate Christians and like to bother them?

No i don't do this on other religious sites. Its nothing personal, I simply do not have enough knowledge about them. And no I don't hate Christians, some of my best friends are Christian. I'm not trying deliberately to bother anyone, I'm just asking questions.

 

[Zendra]

Chad,no offence, but if I may ask. Why did you post this thread to begin with?
Was it really a letter to Atheists or was it more you stating what you think Atheists believe?
If it was a letter than it doesn't seem right to get annoyed and agressive when people come on and reply to it.
If it was more of a statement of opinion then its fine to ask people to leave if they arent acting appropriately.

Perhaps you could clarify for any other potential posters.

 

[LifeinJesus]

Chad has done well. I read his whole original post and I was VERY impressed. Everything he said was true and a quick Google search reveals this. I laugh at the atheist who said The Big Bang disproves God, it was a CATHOLIC PRIEST who came up with The Big Bang theory which states the universe is expanding. The Big Bang actually proves God created the universe. The Bible also states the universe is expanding and it states that the earth is hanged on NOTHING.

Job 26:7 - "He is stretching out the north over the empty place,
Hanging the earth upon nothing;"

Psalms 104:2 "Stretching out the heavens like a tent cloth,"

In The Bible, stars are always mentioned as being in heaven (space). The Bible actually mentions God expands the heavens which is supported by the expanding universe theory. In conclusion, The Bible mentioned all of these facts before science discovered them. Man had never been in space during the times of The Bible, so we have but one conclusion: The Bible is 100% fact.

I'm a man of faith and of science and God created science so we could understand the universe because God has given man, the thirst of knowledge. I watched a program called The Big Question today on BBC 2 where an atheist got humiliated. Worry not believers, atheists will never win the argument but they will always exist until judgement day, The Bible even predicted them and how they would insult God which can be seen with the rude cartoons, images and videos they make of him. Don't worry about them, The Book of Job describes them perfectly, what joy they have is very short-lived due to their hate.

Hopefully they wake up and see the truth soon.

 

[Brighthouse]

Amen Brother Chad!! Yes indeed!! the tide rolls in, the tide rolls out, it has done this since the beginning of time,someone has to put this in order! And we all know who!! GOD!Thanks for the great post!

 

[Zendra]

The Bible mentioned all of these facts before science discovered them. Man had never been in space during the times of The Bible, so we have but one conclusion: The Bible is 100% fact.

Psalms 104:5​

He set the earth on its foundations; it can never be moved.

Ps. 22:27 All the ends of the world shall remember and turn unto the LORD

what joy they have is very short-lived due to their hate.

What hate?

 

[LifeinJesus]

Psalms 104:5​

He set the earth on its foundations; it can never be moved.

Ps. 22:27 All the ends of the world shall remember and turn unto the LORD





What hate?

Psalm is after The Book of Job which states the Earth is hanged on nothing. The Earth does have foundation - GRAVITY! Gravity keeps the Earth in a orbit around the sun. It moves due to gravity not because someone is moving it or because a comet has hit it. If you believe in God, then you believe the Earth is protected from being destroyed until he says so. What is unmovable is continents. Man cannot move continents. The earth does not move but the earth as Earth (planet) does move.

Your hate is the hate of preaching doubt on a Christian forum which specifically said only for Christians. Not believing in creationism and not being born again by accepting Christ makes you non-Christian.

 

[StephenC]

Not all atheists think exactly alike, but this post will never convince any of them. It's based on assumptions that atheists consider false, such as the argument that evidence of design in the world, in us and other living beings is proof of a creator.

With that argument dismissed, Christians have very little available to convince an atheist. It can't actually be done. Only Spirit can reveal itself.

Atheists see no evidence for a creator, and you can't provide an atheist with such evidence because you don't actually have any that could convince them.

Atheists also point out that while Christians believe their scripture, so do adherents of all religions. From an atheist's point of view, there is no difference between believing in Christ and believing the Koran. To an atheist, all sets of religious beliefs are irrational because none of what they declare can be proved.

Finally, it seems pointless to make such posts here, where atheists are excluded anyway.

 

[LifeinJesus]

Actually, the evidence was presented. It's just their stubbornness that makes them want to refuse but others have converted when seeing proof. It's not illogical to post here either since any atheist could be reading these forums or at least one who seeks Christ.

Our job as Christians is to spread the messages, regardless of if no one listens or not. Atheists can never answer our arguments. They can't explain why the universe shows such design, they can't explain why the human system is so designed with the circulatory system.

There's no such thing as happenchance. The universe was no accident and was created with a reason.

 

[StephenC]

I'm saying no atheist believes the argument from design. Of course no argument will convince you either.

Atheists are not allowed in here, so there's very little point in addressing them. You just told me the forum is for Christians only. How will you reach the others?

 

[Chad]

StephenC,

Read the motto on the top right logo. For Christians and "those seeking". How is that not reaching out to others? If they are not seeking Jesus, what business do they have here? To debate? No. There is no reason for debate. We believers know what we believe in and its the Truth, Jesus Christ. There is no debating that.

 

[David777]

Science

Science is purely observation, then hypothesis, and hopefully a repeatable experiment that will establish the theory as a law of science. If this process is precise then mankind has in fact
increased his scientific knowledge.

Science cannot prove or disprove the existence
of God. In fact, science cannot deal with this question. God
according to definition is beyond the NATURAL. Science only
deals with the natural. There can be no argument here.

Problems develop when people speculate that a scientific theory may
hold implications for the existence of God. Such as the THEORY
of Evilution (sorry about my spelling).

The theory of evolution has two threads:
Survival of the fittest, and change from one species to another.

Survival of the fittest is beyond question. It is the second part of
the theory that has no evidence. Either in the fossil record or in the
observable realm. This is the reason why the theory of evolution
is still a theory.

Will this theory change into a law in the future. I cannot see how
it could. Fossil records do not contain the evidence of changing
species. Rather explosions of life as in the PreCambrian strata.

Science is not a threat to the existence of God never was never
will be. But speculation is and always will be.

To the invisible and immortal God be the honour and glory
for a breathtaking, beautiful creation.

 

[SpiritLedEd]

"I tell you the truth, unless you change and become like little children (humble), you cannot enter the Kingdom of Heaven." (MT 18:3 NIV).

Atheists say that God has to prove His existence to them. Thus, they tacitly admit their belief in the superiority of man, a very prideful position that separates them from Him.

SLE

 

[LifeinJesus]

StephenC,

Read the motto on the top right logo. For Christians and "those seeking". How is that not reaching out to others? If they are not seeking Jesus, what business do they have here? To debate? No. There is no reason for debate. We believers know what we believe in and its the Truth, Jesus Christ. There is no debating that.

Exactly. We know what's the truth and we've laid the truth out here so those that seek (those that seek are ones most likely to end up accepting Christ): receive.

I'm sure most of members here also spread the gospel in real life and on other sites. I most certainly do. That's our job.

 

[JosephSmith]

Not believing in creationism and not being born again by accepting Christ makes you non-Christian.

I was also taught this by my parents and Pastor, but let's keep in mind that the latest Gallop poll shows that only 40% of Americans believe in creationism. A literal interpretation of the Bible is dying out because the evidence for evolution has become too overwhelming. 38% of Americans believe God guided a process by which humans developed over millions of years from less advanced life forms. So, does this mean that less than 40% of Americans are actually Christian? Are Christians now the minority?
　

Our job as Christians is to spread the messages, regardless of if no one listens or not. Atheists can never answer our arguments. They can't explain why the universe shows such design

Design is an illusion. Let's look at your argument. You see complexity and therefore there must have been a designer. That's the rule, right? But surely God himself is complex, right? Correct me if I'm wrong on that. By claiming that God does not require a designer, you have made the rule "complexity requires a designer" fall flat on it's face and become worthless. Either complex things need a designer or they do not. You can't have it both ways, which is what you are trying to do. So which is it? Does complexity require a designer or does it not?
　

Science cannot prove or disprove the existence
of God. In fact, science cannot deal with this question. God
according to definition is beyond the NATURAL. Science only
deals with the natural. There can be no argument here.

Science does not attempt to disprove God. How would you suggest one go about trying to disprove something that doesn't exist? Can you prove to me that Peter Pan does not exist? That's a ridiculous request for me to make, right? Well, replace Peter Pan with God and tell me why the request is any less ridiculous.
　

Survival of the fittest is beyond question. It is the second part of
the theory that has no evidence. Either in the fossil record or in the
observable realm. This is the reason why the theory of evolution
is still a theory.

What do you mean still a theory? A theory does not just mean someone's idea. Evolution is both a theory and an accepted fact. It is as much a fact as the world being round is a fact. I'm actually more sure about evolution than I am a round earth. Evolution is a fact supported by mountains of evidence. More evidence than any person could go through in a life time. Fossil evidence. DNA evidence. Scientists have even witnessed evolution with their own eyes. I know this is not a Catholic forum, but even Pope John Paul II in 1996 said in a speech basically that evolution is now an accepted fact and that one can be a Catholic while also accepting that we evolved from apes, and indeed, we are apes.
　

"I tell you the truth, unless you change and become like little children (humble), you cannot enter the Kingdom of Heaven." (MT 18:3 NIV).

My response to that would be that the Bible also says (1 Corinthians 13:11) When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
　
Again, hopefully no one takes offence to any of that. I figure since the thread is called "Dear Atheist" and not "Dear Christian", you'd want to hear back from us so you can better understand why we think the way we do. I've tried to be as respectful as I can. I saw "Dear Atheist" as an invitation to us, and I have refrained from posting in other parts of the site because I figure that wouldn't be too kind of me and I wouldn't have much positive to contribute.

 

[David777]

Athiests want proof.

You cannot prove a point to someone whom does not want to accept the theory, experiment or conclusion. With many theories in the sciences there are conflicting alternate theories. Think of a theory as an idea. For a small number of theories, proof is available so the theory becomes a Law.

Let's look at Newton's Laws of motion, in particular the third law:

For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.

This is accepted as a law of motion by the scientific community.

No problem, it is a measureable, repeatable, observable, experiment which is proven. This is science. It is rational and logical.

Where difficulties arise is when the theory (idea) lacks sufficient evidence to support a conclusion.

The Big Bang theory and the theory of Evolution are two prime examples of this.
If you listen to the well educated scientists when they refer to these theories they always say they BELIEVE in the theory. Or the evidence they BELIEVE supports the theory.

How can they possibly say otherwise, these theories are unproven ideas. No matter how logical or rational they may appear to be, they are unproven. They are exercising thier faith.

I remember reading an article years ago by one of the leading evolutionists
imploring his fellow BELIEVERS to increase thier research into Evolution. Why because it is still only an idea. It may seem logical to them but they don't possess the necessary evidence to prove the theory or idea postulated by Charles Darwin.

After all this time one would assume that this problem would have been resolved. We have been studying fossil records long enough to prove this idea. Alas, this is not the case. Why?

Some renowned scientists commenting on the Big Bang BELIEVE that this theory will never be proven. Why?

These are only two topical theories, but there are a myriad of others.

When athiests attempt to use science to support there idea that God does not exist they are ignorant of science. Science does not deal with the SUPER NATURAL. True science is not speculation. True science works within the physical, observable realm.

We don't even know whether a rational mind can in fact unravel the plethora of mysteries that surround us. We have been studying the universe and everything in it for a long time. What have we learned? Not much really. Only that it is much, much, larger than we initially thought. With the possible existence of dark energy and dark matter accounting for it is BELIEVED over 90% of the Universe. It may well be possible that we don't really understand anything about the universe.

Only a complete fool would use science (rational thought) in an attempt to prove or dissprove the existence of God. But I am afraid that fools abound.

A truly smart scientist with an education in a number of disciplines would not be involved in such speculation. He would know by definition that God is far beyond the reach of the finite rational mind.

Athiesm is the profession of the foolish, those whom have not recieved the revelation of Jesus Christ. Those who should know better than asking a Christian to prove the existence of God. Those who scoff at what they do not understand. How could a rational mind discount the existence of God, this beggars belief.

 

[LifeinJesus]

I was also taught this by my parents and Pastor, but let's keep in mind that the latest Gallop poll shows that only 40% of Americans believe in creationism. A literal interpretation of the Bible is dying out because the evidence for evolution has become too overwhelming. 38% of Americans believe God guided a process by which humans developed over millions of years from less advanced life forms. So, does this mean that less than 40% of Americans are actually Christian? Are Christians now the minority?

I thought it was 50% who believed in Creationism with 40% believing in evolution and 10% having no opinion. Regardless, there are many creationists all over the world and believe me - they aren't just creationists because their priest told them it was the truth. I myself was once an evolutionist but eventually saw the flaws in the theory of evolution.
　

Design is an illusion. Let's look at your argument. You see complexity and therefore there must have been a designer. That's the rule, right? But surely God himself is complex, right? Correct me if I'm wrong on that. By claiming that God does not require a designer, you have made the rule "complexity requires a designer" fall flat on it's face and become worthless. Either complex things need a designer or they do not. You can't have it both ways, which is what you are trying to do. So which is it? Does complexity require a designer or does it not?

No. Design is an illusion to you. God exists beyond time and thus has always existed. The universe has not always existed. So obviously something created it and that would be God. When we look at the inside of computers, we see the design that is in it, when we look at the inside of a human/animal body or when we look at the Earth and universe we see thought has been put into it.
　

Science does not attempt to disprove God. How would you suggest one go about trying to disprove something that doesn't exist? Can you prove to me that Peter Pan does not exist? That's a ridiculous request for me to make, right? Well, replace Peter Pan with God and tell me why the request is any less ridiculous.

Peter Pan is a known fictional character. Here, I create a new fictional character:

Kandal, this man is over 4000 years old and can never die. He's seen it all. Death, war, peace and he can predict the future and shape shift.
　
Since I have admitted he is fake, there is no argument for his existence. Thus your logic fails.

What do you mean still a theory? A theory does not just mean someone's idea. Evolution is both a theory and an accepted fact. It is as much a fact as the world being round is a fact. I'm actually more sure about evolution than I am a round earth. Evolution is a fact supported by mountains of evidence. More evidence than any person could go through in a life time. Fossil evidence. DNA evidence. Scientists have even witnessed evolution with their own eyes. I know this is not a Catholic forum, but even Pope John Paul II in 1996 said in a speech basically that evolution is now an accepted fact and that one can be a Catholic while also accepting that we evolved from apes, and indeed, we are apes.

It can't be both a theory and an accepted fact. The fact you call it a theory even shows that you have doubts with parts of evolution.

 

[Jack Johnson]

Well to be honest, no it is not a coincidence and all these things can be explained scientifically using facts and reasearch. I will personally explain every one of these for you if you would like.

Seconded, i understand the point of this thread but the examples you used were not very good. If you really wanted to stump me try "why is the blood clotting system so complex, it couldnt have happened by accident" or "why is the evolutionary branch from apes to humans so remarkably linear". These things stump me but im not an expert.

Also if the theory of evolutions flaws are flaws and not a lack of sufficient data, then scientists would have thrown it out decades ago. "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence."

 

[Jack Johnson]

Exactly. We know what's the truth and we've laid the truth out here so those that seek (those that seek are ones most likely to end up accepting Christ): receive.

I'm sure most of members here also spread the gospel in real life and on other sites. I most certainly do. That's our job.

I'm as certain that my beliefs are the truth though. How can we know whos truth is truly true? I think mst people examine this at least once in their lives and simply decide their idea is the best/most logical and stick with it.
Many many apologies for the double post.

 

[Chad]

Also if the theory of evolutions flaws are flaws and not a lack of sufficient data, then scientists would have thrown it out decades ago.

Why do you assume they would throw out a "theory"?

Since when was theory absolute fact?

From dictionary.com

the·o·ry
   [thee-uh-ree, theer-ee]

–noun, plural -ries.

1. a coherent group of general propositions used as principles of explanation for a class of phenomena: Einstein's theory of relativity.

2. a proposed explanation whose status is still conjectural, in contrast to well-established propositions that are regarded as reporting matters of actual fact.

3. Mathematics . a body of principles, theorems, or the like, belonging to one subject: number theory.

4. the branch of a science or art that deals with its principles or methods, as distinguished from its practice: music theory.

5. a particular conception or view of something to be done or of the method of doing it; a system of rules or principles.

6. contemplation or speculation.

7. guess or conjecture.

 

[Jack Johnson]

I don't mean they would trash it completely. If undeniable evidence appears that nullifies the theory as we know it, they would formulate a new one, it would ....*dons sunglasses* Evolve.