Dear Atheist
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Tusk Barnes
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Evidence & Bible Prophecy - Talk Jesus | Christian Forums
Go ahead and try to dispute anything in this forum. I challenge you
Would you mind if I gave that a go?
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Why would I mind? Its your own risk.
Enjoy. And also please respond in the respective forums/threads, not here.
Tusk Barnes
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Thanks, that was actually my next question. Way to be proactive!
Tusk Barnes
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Haha. I hope you're not looking to team up on anybody. We can't very well do that if we hope to be allowed to stick around. I don't know what I'll have questions about first (Or even if I'll have questions. It may just be so convincing that I'm speechless), but I'm sure you'll know it when you see it. My name will be there.
Nice to meet you, by the way. If you're willing to take this at your own risk" with me, that sounds great.
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While I'd be happy to support my plan isn't to team up and smother. I can just stand back if you want. I admit I only have limited knowledge either way.
You too, its nice to meet another debater who sounds cheerful yet ready. Some get too serious and angry.
JosephSmith
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Hi Chad. I'd like to address this. Miracles and personal experiences with God are not real evidence for anything. You've experienced God, and so have I. At least we thought we did. We have to remember that the human mind is very much so susceptible to hallucination. For example, you and I can both agree that the Muslims are hallucinating when they claim to experience Allah, the Hindu's are hallucinating and etc. So even though your experiences with God seem so real, we have to keep in mind that anyone can be tricked. I don't see any reason why Christians are immune from possibly being tricked.
The reason miracles don't count for anything is because all religions have claims of miracles. Miracles for Muslims does not equal Islam being true, so the same goes for Christianity. Also, we can not credibly take the Bible as history. Islam speaks of many people witnessing the prophet Muhammad flying off to heaven on a winged horse. This is why atheists don't take the resurrection of Christ seriously. What am I to do? Believe just because my parents told me to? How would that make me any better than a hell-bound Muslim who's just listening to their parents?
When I was a child handing out Christian pamphlets with my parents, I was shocked that there were non-believers who were willing to risk going to hell. This confused me, but that's because what I didn't understand then is that they weren't taking much of a risk. I used to be a very serious Christian who accepted hell as a real place, and I didn't want to go there. Do you really think I would risk such torment if I wasn't pretty much sure it's just pretend? What alot of Christians don't understand is that being atheist is not something we chose. Our consciousness has been raised and we couldn't force ourselves to go back to believing if we wanted to. It's not a matter of choice. Yeah, you can make sense of a world with a real God in it (I did), but once your consciousness has been raised, you have a much greater understanding of reality than what religion can offer.
Don't take offence to any of that. I do understand at least to a degree how you can make sense of a world where Christianity is true. I used to.
Brighthouse
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Mr.Smith, if I may be kind enough to submit a few things to you for your consideration please. First. To believe in nothing, comes from nothing,and from my math,nothing from nothings leaves nothing. To think with our mind as you well know is limited to what we ourselves can preceive from it.We come up with our idea of what the world should be and is to us,and we say there!! That must be true. Truth?? HUMM Now there is something to consider as well,for like you said we read much from many different book,and from them, we learn,and decide if that teaching is for us to hold to.There is no question that Jesus Christ did live on earth,this we do know for sure,what he stood for and represented is for all of us to have the free will to recieve him or decide not to.This is our Choice. Many have told me that the day of miracles is over,they ended when Jesus left the earth to go back into heaven.This would make sense to me except for one big reason!! The Power of Jesus is still on earth!! YES!! How do I know this?? Because to me, there is no bigger miracle in all the earth then for a lost soul,one who is seeking truth,as we all do,to find that truth in Jesus,and have this living man come and live inside of us. Do you not think it would be a mistake to ever think we know how an earth and sky, birds and animals were created? For to be honest, how could we ever really be sure!! We were not there,and to believe what someone else says,takes faith in that person,no matter what belief you hold on to.I do not judge you,nor in what you choose to believe or not believe,but please do not think either,that you are right,for to be right,one must have created or started something,none of us did. We place our faith in something or somone,I place my Faith in Jesus,it is my choice,but because I have done this for myself,I have seen so many wonderful things happen not just to me and my own life,but the life of others as well! A miracle is defined as something created from nothing,like a person who has no arm, and suddenly one grows out,or someone who was in so much pain in there life,and by receiving Jesus as there personal Saviour, there life turns 360 dergrees, and they find what love is really all about.For to have something, it must come from someone or somewhere.I hope you will consider this Mr. Smith,I hope you will give Jesus a chance to show you what love and truth is really about. Thank you for your consideration.
Where do you get this conclusion from? Does your choice not to believe in Buddhism come from nothing?
I think its more that we make calculations and assemble proofs of how the universe works.
Actually like I said above its not so much someone saying something is so( unlike the bible ) as someone observing things and formulating a theory from them. This theory is presented to others who find it sounds reasonable and makes sense.
Where do you get this conclusion from? Does your choice not to believe in Buddhism come from nothing?
I think its more that we make calculations and assemble proofs of how the universe works.
Actually like I said above its not so much someone saying something is so( unlike the bible ) as someone observing things and formulating a theory from them. This theory is presented to others who find it sounds reasonable and makes sense.
Just thought I'd chuck that in. Feel free to correct me.
Brighthouse
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I will not correct you,as you are free to believe any way you choose,but you talked about theory, I guess from what you are saying you believe in Buddhism? if so then I only have one question for you,does it make sense to you,to put ones faith in something that has no life? ah Budda can not hear prayers nor answer them,in Vienam where I served 2 tours many would hold to this, theory,I thought that theory was based upon some facts,I mean a reason to believe in this? To believe one is in contact with there inner self,one should be able to recieve from another they are praying to. I am not being mean to you,I just think since I know you also have common sense as well,that you would hold to a faith in someone who is living,someone who can hear your prayers and answer them,for having a feeling, or goose bumps on ones arm to me is not an answer.They are nice to have sure! But I do not hold to feeling,my faith is based upon a man who actually did something for me,and not only did he die for me,but he did something no other God could ever do,and this to me makes him God if for no other reason,he rose again.So my faith is based on a living Jesus,one who not only hears my prayers,but even with me not getting all emotional,he answers them to.And when one recieves answers from his or her faith, that faith then become fact. At least to me. humbly mark
JosephSmith
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Stephen Hawking says in his book "The Grand Design" that, given the existence of gravity, "the universe can and will create itself from nothing". I will admit that I definitely don't understand this stuff in great detail, but that doesn't mean it's impossible just because I can't fully understand how something comes from nothing.
We don't have to witness something to know that it happened. When there is a murder, usually no one witnesses it. But detectives can usually figure out who did it and how, based on many observations. When evidence is joined up with other evidence, things start to fall into place and make sense and we're able to find out who, in all likelyhood did the murder. Think of scientists like detectives. They work in the same way. Accepting what scientists say is not the same thing as faith. I haven't seen with my own eyes the evidence for everything that I believe, but I find it comforting that anyone is free to look at the evidence behind what scientists claim. And if a scientists claims are shown to be flawed by other scientists, the claim will not be taken seriously in the scientific community.
I did give Jesus a chance. I gave Jesus fifteen years of my life and he chose not to convince me that he is truth. That doesn't mean that my beliefs are set in stone. I'm not a fundamentalist, but for me to return to Christ it would take real evidence. If new evidence were to be discovered, I wouldn't have a choice but to believe. Until then, I'll remain accepting that I don't get to survive my own death, and I don't even really view that as a negative thing. In death there is no more pain, sadness, fear, or worries. That doesn't sound like such a bad deal to me. If I'm wrong? Then so be it. We know that our brains are responsible for our consciousness and there currently is no evidence that it's possible for anyone to survive their own death, so that's why the fear of hell is not there.
Brighthouse
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RATS!! Joesphsmith!! RATS!! I was hoping by my messege to you,that this was the proff you needed from the Lord in me to you. For who has any right to judge another? I did not,as i know you noitced. It is only human for someone who is of the faith to judge another,it takes someone far stronger in them not to judge.In my own wisdom I would of lashed out against you,why I would of even been offended! I am sorry you feel that way,so I will not trouble you further. James 5:16 says Therfore confess your sins one to another,and pray for one another so that you may be healed.The effective prayer of a righteouss man can accomplish much. We all need some healing in our lives,ther is not one who does not,the effective prayer means to me one who does not stop until he or she had accomplished what they desire.What ever injured you in your walk with the Lord,I pray you be healed of this. I do not condemn you,nor judge you in anyway! Since I am a true believer,and since I myself make mistakes everyday,I pray Jesus will do to you, what he did for me when I left the faith for a time,8 years to be exact,yes I myself walked away because I needed a healing,and Jesus did make himself more real to me then I could have ever imagined,I pray he will do the same for you,I can have confidence in this,because he does not love you any less then he does me! Thanks also for your kindness and understanding.
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Your faith was lacking. Jesus is not responsible for your lack of faith and lack of relationship in Him. That's your will and choice to either believe or not to believe.
Zendra said:
That's contradicting. So before you say anything think about clearing your own confusion before making any attempts at declaring what is true or not true. Its impossible to be truly born again and still not sure about the "absoluteness of the bible". Totally contradicting.
SpiritLedEd
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Have you ever read "Evidence That Demands a Verdict" by Josh McDowell? Also, he has a six part video series on that topic on YouTube.
Spirit Led Ed (SLE)
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That would be true however if you had read my whole profile you would have found
About Zendra <dl class="list_no_decoration profilefield_list"><dt class="shade" id="profilefield_title_12">Are you Born Again?</dt><dd id="profilefield_value_12"> no </dd></dl>
Perhaps you could show me where you got your information from?
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Simple. First, you cannot be "born christian" but you can be born-again. By claiming you are a Christian at one point means you are declaring to be born-again, just like Jesus says:
John 3:6-8
<sup class="versenum" id="en-NIV-26127">6</sup> Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit<sup class="footnote" value="[<a href="#fen-NIV-26127a" title="See footnote a">a</a>]">[a]</sup> gives birth to spirit. <sup class="versenum" id="en-NIV-26128">7</sup> You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You<sup class="footnote" value="[<a href="#fen-NIV-26128b" title="See footnote b">b</a>]">[b]</sup> must be born again.’ <sup class="versenum" id="en-NIV-26129">8</sup> The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.”<sup class="footnote" value="[<a href="#fen-NIV-26129c" title="See footnote c">c</a>]">[c]
</sup>
You come to a Christian forum to argue, nothing else. So basically you have no respect for others' belief. Do you do the same on other non-Christian religious forums too or do you plainly just hate Christians and like to bother them?
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