Do you go to church?

[abigya]

abigya, in your opinion is church something you go to physically or is it something you are a part of spiritually?

I believe in living out the reality that I am part of the body of Christ because I am born of His Seed and Spirit and I abide in Him regardless of attending any kind of religious liturgy or not. While attending religious liturgy might make you a baptist or presbyterian it does not make you part of the body of Christ.

Dear Brother Jiggyfly

please read my replay carefully,

you will get the answers of your first question regarding my opinion on the last part of my post.

people made the church to be religious liturgy as you said, do we have to say that God's will for the church has failed?

did God intend the church (body of Christ) to be like that? . NO


Ephesians 5:27
that He might present her to Himself a glorious church, not having spot or wrinkle or any such thing, but that she should be holy and without blemish.


so regardless of the people in the Church we stick to the biblical truth. perhaps there may be some thing you can contribute to bring back those wrong perceptions to the biblical truth. I believe you have a great desire that the will of God to be revealed in this generation, if this is so what do you do with Ephesians 5:27 ? to whom did you leave it for ? it's our job to reveal the will of God to the church to be known.

you can not form a complete body, you are the leg, the hand, the ear or eye (please refer to my post ). the church needs you, it is very important that you share the gift God kept in you. you are harming the church as well as your self. (again more explanation on my previous post)


please note that i do not say one has to participate in the wrong perceptions that the church in this generation has , my opinion is as we are the ambassadors of the biblical truth we need to stand do our job but not to flee when we see some thing wrong. did we not promise Jesus we will serve him no matter what?

Blessings

abigya

 

[jiggyfly]

I believe that there are many ways to relate to other believers out side of a religious liturgical meeting and accomplish or fulfill the will of Father and the mandate of HolySpirit. Do I need to attend the rotary club meetings inorder to be a thriving and influential part of my community? I meet with other believers regularly in many different forms and fashions. I find that many believers spend more time at the grocery store or Walmart each week than at the "church's" weekly meetings so I choose to interact with them in all these other places, we pray together and share what God has done in our lives and even what He has revealed to us. I find this much more conductive with "let every joint supply" (Ephesians 4:16) and therefore constructive or edifying.

 

[abigya]

I believe that there are many ways to relate to other believers out side of a religious liturgical meeting and accomplish or fulfill the will of Father and the mandate of HolySpirit. Do I need to attend the rotary club meetings inorder to be a thriving and influential part of my community? I meet with other believers regularly in many different forms and fashions. I find that many believers spend more time at the grocery store or Walmart each week than at the "church's" weekly meetings so I choose to interact with them in all these other places, we pray together and share what God has done in our lives and even what He has revealed to us. I find this much more conductive with "let every joint supply" (Ephesians 4:16) and therefore consturctive or edifying.

you have not answered my questions.

good enough God gave us free choice and will.......

But i would like to say to every one who is reading this thread, no matter how strong our reasons are , God's word still stands us the only truth (we can not update or modify God's word to the way we want it to be), our reasons dose not nullify his word.


Romans 3:4
Indeed, let God (the truth) be true but every man a liar.



have mercy on us Lord

abigya

 

[jiggyfly]

you have not answered my questions.

good enough God gave us free choice and will.......

But i would like to say to every one who is reading this thread, no matter how strong our reasons are , God's word still stands us the only truth (we can not update or modify God's word to the way we want it to be), our reasons dose not nullify his word.


Romans 3:4
Indeed, let God (the truth) be true but every man a liar.


have mercy on us Lord

abigya

Sorry if I have not answered your question, it was not intentional maybe I misunderstood your question. Please repeat the question as plainly as you can, and I will do my best to plainly speak my answer to it.

 

[abigya]

Sorry if I have not answered your question, it was not intentional maybe I misunderstood your question. Please repeat the question as plainly as you can, and I will do my best to plainly speak my answer to it.

you don't have to apologies to me at all.


and i don't have to type again for some one who is defending his actions against the truth.


abigya

 

[jiggyfly]

you don't have to apologies to me at all.


and i don't have to type again for some one who is defending his actions against the truth.


abigya

So you feel I am against the Truth in which way(s)?

 

[Ann]

abigya Hi...

But i would like to say to every one who is reading this thread, no matter how strong our reasons are , God's word still stands us the only truth (we can not update or modify God's word to the way we want it to be), our reasons dose not nullify his word.

What you say is true I will quote these verses to confirm that the church was instituted by Jesus and we must be part of the church because we are one body(which is the church).

Mat 16:18 And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
Act 14:23 And when they had appointed elders for them in every church, with prayer and fasting they committed them to the Lord in whom they had believed.
Act 20:28 Pay careful attention to yourselves and to all the flock, in which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to care for the church of God, which he obtained with his own blood.
Col 1:24 Now I rejoice in my sufferings for your sake, and in my flesh I am filling up what is lacking in Christ's afflictions for the sake of his body, that is, the church,

We are all different, unique people and on different parts of the road that we all walk through life with Jesus.

I think that Jesus will lead us in the right direction, even if we don't go to church. He will not condemn me because I don't go to church. He saved me through faith not through my works.

Being hurt and rejected by the church is not a thing to be taken up lightly, forgiveness is there but there is no trust. We can't condemn the people that don't go to church and found other ways to have communion with the body of Christ, we can only pray that God will provide and make a way where there seem to be no way.

Zec 4:6 Then he said to me, "This is the word of the LORD to Zerubbabel: Not by might, nor by power, but by my Spirit, says the LORD of hosts.

Jesus knows my heart, my intentions and my convictions, He knows what is best at all times. He will not force me but lead me through the Spirit. Arguing about how to be part of the body of Christ will not achieve anything except bad feelings.
I am part of the body of Christ on this site and if you knew how blessed I am to be here you would understand that for now it is enough for me. Later I may need more and then God will make a way for me, I trust Him completely.

I hear God speak in my life even if I don't go to a church where people sit in one building listening to the same sermon, let Him do the conviction through His Spirit.

Love to both you and jiggyfly, just agree to disagree because I personally feel that the church will not take me to heaven (instead they can take me to hell, depending on which church I am attending).

Blessings!

 

[david_james]

Being bed ridden and in a hospital I can't go to church. However, I go on another Christian forum every day.

 

[tree1025]

sundays and wendsday

 

[ltpage]

When ever the doors are open, I'm there.
Hebrews 10:25 "Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching."

 

[MavMin]

Being bed ridden and in a hospital I can't go to church. However, I go on another Christian forum every day.

That is understandable and for those who can't go the Church must go to them. These forums have their place but you still need to have a local Body to minister to you. I can't come to Canada to pray for you at your bedside or to hug you and weep or rejoice with you. The Net is not a sunstitute for a local Body. I hope you have such contact.

 

[david_james]

That is understandable and for those who can't go the Church must go to them. These forums have their place but you still need to have a local Body to minister to you. The Net is not a sunstitute for a local Body. I hope you have such contact.

I don't have anyone ministering to me.

 

[rizen1]

. These forums have their place but you still need to have a local Body to minister to you. The Net is not a sunstitute for a local Body. .

To say all these things is an insult to online churches.
Online ministries that provide, bible study and fellowship to others.
The internet reaches more places and people that the church can ever reach in one day.

People who do not or can not attend a local building should be free to worship anyway they choose.

Yes we are not to forsake the assembly.
But when we log on, to pray, to laugh, to cry, to study the word
and to fellowship, we become an assembled body.

This is 2007 not 207AD
If Jesus was here, am sure he would of had a website,
the 12 disciples would of been Moderators.
They'd still hit the streets.

But we are to go out to the world, make disciples of men.

Where we find these men and women does not matter,
if we find them online,,praise God.

I do not discourage anyone from finding a church,,but I welcome them here so they can eat and meditate on the word, with brothers and sister all over the world.

 

[david_james]

Amen rizen1. God knows and understands I can't get to church. He knows I love him.

I consider this and another Christian forum my church. Plus I have a Bible program that has everything.

 

[loveora]

Church

I go to church three days in a week and those days are Wednesday, Friday and Sunday,so i say three times.

 

[Michael19]

I go two times a week. Twice on Sunday. We do not have church any other days than Sunday. Except we have business meetings once a month so i do three times that week. I am hoping we get a study night started on Wednesday nights, so help me pray about that.

God Bless

 

[MavMin]

Insult to online churches or not it is true. Brother James cannot get to Church and it is sad that no one is ministering to him from a local Body but for those who CAN be with a local Body and are not then they are not obeying the commandment to assemble.

These forums are good for the exchange of information and debate but they are not and will not be an acceptable replacement for that commandment. To do so and teach others so is to substitute the commandment of God for the commandment and tradition of men or heresy.

Maybe God will have a smaller city outside of the New Jerusalem where you will be able to log on and see what is going on throughout eternity but you will not be able to partake personally. Oh, you want to actually walk down the street of gold and hug the saints and talk personally with Jesus? Hmm, no, virtual reality should be sufficent in eternity if it is all you need now.

Can your virtual church baptize you, bury you, marry you, hug your neck and weep with you at a graveside or hospital bed? Does your toes walk around by themselves and leave you in bed to send you back video signals of where they have been? Does your tongue goes to the kitchen to lick some ice cream and send you back a picture and maybe even a chemical analysis while your eyes are rolling around in the living room looking for your car keys? No, your body keeps everything assembled to function properly and that is how God designed His Church Body to function here as well.

Are all Christians everywhere connected to Christ as the head? Yes. That makes us spiritually connected but each town where there are two or more Christian gathered in His name He is there but they are gathered bodily not virtually on a forum.

Would He use this medium if He were here? Speculation either way is vain. He came in a time without technology and if technology was the way He wanted His church to operate He could have waited until now or He could have alluded to it somehow in Revelation or in one of the Apostle's writings. He did neither.

Is technology a tool? Yes. Is it a substitute for real live human relationships and service? God forbid! I am called a Maverick and I use the technology but I am a member of a local church and exercise my gifts within that Body as well as through this medium. There are still plenty of people who are not Netizens. They need my gifts as well as online folks.

My personal position is that people who refuse to work within a local body are troublemakers who have been kicked out of a church or two for either nonbiblical schizmatic actions or doctrinal heresy, prideful (no church is pure enough or worthy enough of my gifts), involved in some sin that can be hidden online or have been hurt in a church and think this is the best way to avoid that happening again. Or it could be for something else but whatever it is the excuse is still unbiblical for it does not negate the commandment.

For those who cannot and this medium is the ONLY way they can find teaching and prayer then until God raises up a local Body in the area or leads one to this person then it is an acceptable interim solution but not to be a permanent one.

 

[Chad]

Insult to online churches or not it is true. Brother James cannot get to Church and it is sad that no one is ministering to him from a local Body but for those who CAN be with a local Body and are not then they are not obeying the commandment to assemble.

These forums are good for the exchange of information and debate but they are not and will not be an acceptable replacement for that commandment. To do so and teach others so is to substitute the commandment of God for the commandment and tradition of men or heresy.

Maybe God will have a smaller city outside of the New Jerusalem where you will be able to log on and see what is going on throughout eternity but you will not be able to partake personally. Oh, you want to actually walk down the street of gold and hug the saints and talk personally with Jesus? Hmm, no, virtual reality should be sufficent in eternity if it is all you need now.

Can your virtual church baptize you, bury you, marry you, hug your neck and weep with you at a graveside or hospital bed? Does your toes walk around by themselves and leave you in bed to send you back video signals of where they have been? Does your tongue goes to the kitchen to lick some ice cream and send you back a picture and maybe even a chemical analysis while your eyes are rolling around in the living room looking for your car keys? No, your body keeps everything assembled to function properly and that is how God designed His Church Body to function here as well.

Are all Christians everywhere connected to Christ as the head? Yes. That makes us spiritually connected but each town where there are two or more Christian gathered in His name He is there but they are gathered bodily not virtually on a forum.

Would He use this medium if He were here? Speculation either way is vain. He came in a time without technology and if technology was the way He wanted His church to operate He could have waited until now or He could have alluded to it somehow in Revelation or in one of the Apostle's writings. He did neither.

Is technology a tool? Yes. Is it a substitute for real live human relationships and service? God forbid! I am called a Maverick and I use the technology but I am a member of a local church and exercise my gifts within that Body as well as through this medium. There are still plenty of people who are not Netizens. They need my gifts as well as online folks.

My personal position is that people who refuse to work within a local body are troublemakers who have been kicked out of a church or two for either nonbiblical schizmatic actions or doctrinal heresy, prideful (no church is pure enough or worthy enough of my gifts), involved in some sin that can be hidden online or have been hurt in a church and think this is the best way to avoid that happening again. Or it could be for something else but whatever it is the excuse is still unbiblical for it does not negate the commandment.

For those who cannot and this medium is the ONLY way they can find teaching and prayer then until God raises up a local Body in the area or leads one to this person then it is an acceptable interim solution but not to be a permanent one.

Where is this commandment you speak of that one must go to church. You seem overly confident in your own understanding. If your going to make such bold statements, back it up properly with the Scripture you speak of. I don't recall any "commandments" that one must attend a church building. The forums or any Christian Internet based ministry is certainly not going to baptize you with water or marry you. They're not meant to be such a thing in the first place, so why actually use that as an example when they are not there for that purpose in the first place? Makes no sense at all.

My view is simple: let the Holy Spirit guide a person, not man's own understanding based on his own experience and his own interpretation of the Word. All down to the Holy Spirit, assuming one is surrendered fully to Him.

I used to attend a local church, an awesome non-denominational church. I go once in a while when I feel to do so. I do not feel guilt for not attending otherwise. I am hearing impaired and cannot hear anything said clear enough to understand what is said. So for me, it would be hypocritical to go when GOD knows my heart: discouraged when I am there because I cannot hear the sermon, not even the loud music's lyrics. GOD put me here, and here I shall stay until GOD says move elsewhere. I will only listen to what GOD says to me, no one else. The message is very clear.

You Mavmin also completely wrote off everyone else who was literally hurt by their own local church, unfortunately. I don't believe in writing them off, nor do I believe in writing off that particular congregation that affected them negatively. Only GOD can heal the hurt and restore the joy. It can be done in that same church building, or perhaps GOD will move them. You obviously expressed no concern in your post about such people. You brother, are too confident in your own understanding.

I would never take advice from a man who says such a comment as this one in another thread, especially replying to "explain" the meaning without even having any humility to apologize to everyone you insulted, a big broad of people indeed

If he isn't a Baptist be ashamed.

This is one example of why people should simply listen to the Holy Spirit instead.

 

[jiggyfly]

Insult to online churches or not it is true. Brother James cannot get to Church and it is sad that no one is ministering to him from a local Body but for those who CAN be with a local Body and are not then they are not obeying the commandment to assemble.

These forums are good for the exchange of information and debate but they are not and will not be an acceptable replacement for that commandment. To do so and teach others so is to substitute the commandment of God for the commandment and tradition of men or heresy.

Maybe God will have a smaller city outside of the New Jerusalem where you will be able to log on and see what is going on throughout eternity but you will not be able to partake personally. Oh, you want to actually walk down the street of gold and hug the saints and talk personally with Jesus? Hmm, no, virtual reality should be sufficent in eternity if it is all you need now.

Can your virtual church baptize you, bury you, marry you, hug your neck and weep with you at a graveside or hospital bed? Does your toes walk around by themselves and leave you in bed to send you back video signals of where they have been? Does your tongue goes to the kitchen to lick some ice cream and send you back a picture and maybe even a chemical analysis while your eyes are rolling around in the living room looking for your car keys? No, your body keeps everything assembled to function properly and that is how God designed His Church Body to function here as well.

Are all Christians everywhere connected to Christ as the head? Yes. That makes us spiritually connected but each town where there are two or more Christian gathered in His name He is there but they are gathered bodily not virtually on a forum.

Would He use this medium if He were here? Speculation either way is vain. He came in a time without technology and if technology was the way He wanted His church to operate He could have waited until now or He could have alluded to it somehow in Revelation or in one of the Apostle's writings. He did neither.

Is technology a tool? Yes. Is it a substitute for real live human relationships and service? God forbid! I am called a Maverick and I use the technology but I am a member of a local church and exercise my gifts within that Body as well as through this medium. There are still plenty of people who are not Netizens. They need my gifts as well as online folks.

My personal position is that people who refuse to work within a local body are troublemakers who have been kicked out of a church or two for either nonbiblical schizmatic actions or doctrinal heresy, prideful (no church is pure enough or worthy enough of my gifts), involved in some sin that can be hidden online or have been hurt in a church and think this is the best way to avoid that happening again. Or it could be for something else but whatever it is the excuse is still unbiblical for it does not negate the commandment.

For those who cannot and this medium is the ONLY way they can find teaching and prayer then until God raises up a local Body in the area or leads one to this person then it is an acceptable interim solution but not to be a permanent one.

The fact of the matter is there is only one local body per community, not fourteen, one is not methodist and another baptist and yet another pentecostal, these are all man-made religious organizations. Now you can bark all you want but you can not prove by scripture that one is in any error for neglecting to attend religious liturgy. I assemble with other believers just about everyday somewhere in my community and Jesus is in the midst. If one was to do an indepth church history study one would find out that the current style of gathering did not even exist the first several centuries of the Church. There is nothing sacred about a pulpit or a pew and God does not have a house with stain glass windows. Your personal position may be shared by others but it still remains just that a personal position without the aid of scriptural truth. If one chooses to gather together in that fashion so be it, but I would be very careful condemning those who choose to do it another way, at the risk of being a prejudice bigot.

 

[Chad]

The fact of the matter is there is only one local body per community, not fourteen, one is not methodist and another baptist and yet another pentecostal, these are all man-made religious organizations. Now you can bark all you want but you can not prove by scripture that one is in any error for neglecting to attend religious liturgy. I assemble with other believers just about everyday somewhere in my community and Jesus is in the midst. If one was to do an indepth church history study one would find out that the current style of gathering did not even exist the first several centuries of the Church. There is nothing sacred about a pulpit or a pew and God does not have a house with stain glass windows. Your personal position may be shared by others but it still remains just that a personal position without the aid of scriptural truth. If one chooses to gather together in that fashion so be it, but I would be very careful condemning those who choose to do it another way, at the risk of being a prejudice bigot.

Amen brother jiggy. I truly love your sincerity in the last line as well. Its the plain truth. One has no right to judge others in the way Mavmin did (more than once to say the least). You made a valid point about church congregations not existing at Jesus' time the way they do today. Even in the upper room mentioned in the Gospels, it was not a church building. It was merely believers (quantity not applicable) in a room with the Holy Spirit in the midst of them.

I have nothing against church 'buildings' per se, but I know its NOT a commandment. I do think gathering with believers in general ANYWHERE (park, mall, I don't care) is a healthy thing otherwise. But to confide GOD in a building is absolutely stupid, because it is un-Scriptural.

Acts 2:1-6 (King James Version)

1And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.
2And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.
3And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
4And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
5And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.
6Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.

Where is the traditional "church building" here? It was a room in a house. The Holy Spirit was there, and granted by Him to the disciples was the speaking of Tongues.