Does the Bible support Women Preachers? ( Debate -- Long video)

[Curtis]

Yes, I do know what Paul said. He said that a woman should not usurp the authority of her man.
11 Let the isha (wife) learn in silence in all submission.


12 I do not allow an isha (wife) either to have teaching authority over or to have hishtaltut (domination, taking control) over [her] man, but to be in silence.


13 For Adam was formed rishonah (first), then Chavah.


14 And Adam was not deceived, but the isha, having been deceived, has come to be in averah (transgression).

Another translation (Williams) says it like this.....

1Ti 2:11 A married woman must learn in quiet and in perfect submission.
1Ti 2:12 I do not permit a married woman to practice teaching or domineering over a husband; she must keep quiet.

 

[Curtis]

1Ti 2:13 For Adam was formed first, and then Eve;
1Ti 2:14 and it was not Adam who was deceived, but it was the woman who was utterly deceived and fell into transgression.

Adam sinned when he did not stop Eve from eating from the tree that God commanded them not to eat from!

Jas 4:17 Therefore, to him who knows to do good and does not do it, to him it is sin.

Which is worse being deceived or knowing not to do something yet doing it anyway?

 

[Charlie24]

1Ti 2:13 For Adam was formed first, and then Eve;
1Ti 2:14 and it was not Adam who was deceived, but it was the woman who was utterly deceived and fell into transgression.

Adam sinned when he did not stop Eve from eating from the tree that God commanded them not to eat from!

Jas 4:17 Therefore, to him who knows to do good and does not do it, to him it is sin.

Which is worse being deceived or knowing not to do something yet doing it anyway?

Concerning the woman being deceived and not the man, one scholar said it this way.

"This facility of deception on her part seems to suggest to the Apostle her inferiority to man in intellectual strength, and the consequent wrongness of allowing the woman an intellectual supremacy over man as it regards authority."

 

[Admon Mikha'el]

Concerning the woman being deceived and not the man, one scholar said it this way.

"This facility of deception on her part seems to suggest to the Apostle her inferiority to man in intellectual strength, and the consequent wrongness of allowing the woman an intellectual supremacy over man as it regards authority."

Keep in mind here, that Adam sinned deliberately. He was not blameless

 

[Hekuran]

Concerning the woman being deceived and not the man, one scholar said it this way.

"This facility of deception on her part seems to suggest to the Apostle her inferiority to man in intellectual strength, and the consequent wrongness of allowing the woman an intellectual supremacy over man as it regards authority."

Don't have much respect for that particular scholar. There's nothing in Paul's writings - or in any part of the Bible that indicates male intellectual supremacy.

And that's a good thing, because we can clearly see that women are just as capable as men.

We all know some very smart women and some dull men, don't we?

Lastly, intellectual strength is not included in biblical qualifications for pastoral ministry

 

[Charlie24]

Keep in mind here, that Adam sinned deliberately. He was not blameless

That has nothing to do with the woman being the weaker vessel.

 

[Charlie24]

Don't have much respect for that particular scholar. There's nothing in Paul's writings - or in any part of the Bible that indicates male intellectual supremacy.

And that's a good thing, because we can clearly see that women are just as capable as men.

We all know some very smart women and some dull men, don't we?

Lastly, intellectual strength is not included in biblical qualifications for pastoral ministry

I say let everyone interpret Scripture the way they understand it and let the chips fall where they may when we stand before Christ.

 

[Curtis]

1Co 14:31 For you can all prophesy one by one, so that all may learn and all be encouraged: (this includes women)
1Co 14:32 and the spirits of Prophets yield submission to Prophets.
1Co 14:33 For God is not a God of disorder, but of peace, as He is in all the Churches of His people.
1Co 14:34 Let married women be silent in the Churches, for they are not permitted to speak. They must be content with a subordinate place, as the Law also says;
1Co 14:35 and if they wish to ask questions, they should ask their own husbands at home. For it is disgraceful for a married woman to speak at a Church assembly. (Weymouth) (This is why wives are to be quiet in a Church assembly in not asking her husband what is being taught, They must wait until they get home)

Act 21:9 Now Philip had four unmarried daughters who were prophetesses;

1Co 11:5 but a woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her Head, for it is exactly the same as if she had her hair cut short.

 

[Admon Mikha'el]

That has nothing to do with the woman being the weaker vessel.

The woman is NOT the weaker vessel...We are told to treat her as though she is weaker...that is treat her gently, with consideration for her feelings and her best interests.

 

[Charlie24]

The woman is NOT the weaker vessel...We are told to treat her as though she is weaker...that is treat her gently, with consideration for her feelings and her best interests.

Christ has already told Paul and Paul has told us how to treat the women whether old or young wife or not.

 

[Curtis]

Luke 2:36 And there was one Anna, a prophetess, the daughter of Phanuel, of the tribe of Aser: she was of a great age, and had lived with an husband seven years from her virginity;
Luke 2:37 And she was a widow of about fourscore and four years, which departed not from the temple, but served God with fastings and prayers night and day.
Luke 2:38 And she coming in that instant gave thanks likewise unto the Lord, and spake of him to all them that looked for redemption in Jerusalem.

Anna a "prophetess" (prophet) prophesied every day and night in the temple (church). To who did she prophesy? spake of him to ALL them that looked for redemption in Jerusalem. (which included men and women)

 

[Charlie24]

Luke 2:36 And there was one Anna, a prophetess, the daughter of Phanuel, of the tribe of Aser: she was of a great age, and had lived with an husband seven years from her virginity;
Luke 2:37 And she was a widow of about fourscore and four years, which departed not from the temple, but served God with fastings and prayers night and day.
Luke 2:38 And she coming in that instant gave thanks likewise unto the Lord, and spake of him to all them that looked for redemption in Jerusalem.

Anna a "prophetess" (prophet) prophesied every day and night in the temple (church). To who did she prophesy? spake of him to ALL them that looked for redemption in Jerusalem. (which included men and women)

According to Paul, is prophesying a qualification for a pastor? Is that how the Scripture tells us pastors were appointed?

Of course if you want to ignore the Master Builder of the Church and come to your own conclusions, then anyone is qualified to be a pastor.

 

[B-A-C]

Woman can be in ministry. Some women in the Bible were.

Jdgs 4:4; Now Deborah, a prophetess, the wife of Lappidoth, was judging Israel at that time.

Women can teach Sunday school lead childrens and womens Bible studies, worship services, and much more.
Women should never be head pastors. They should never have spiritual authority over men.

Gen 3:16; To the woman He said, "I will greatly multiply Your pain in childbirth, In pain you will bring forth children; Yet your desire will be for your husband, And he will rule over you."

Eph 5:23; For the husband is the head of the wife, as Christ also is the head of the church, He Himself being the Savior of the body.
Eph 5:24; But as the church is subject to Christ, so also the wives ought to be to their husbands in everything.

1Cor 11:9; for indeed man was not created for the woman's sake, but woman for the man's sake.
1Cor 11:10; Therefore the woman ought to have a symbol of authority on her head, because of the angels.
1Cor 11:11; However, in the Lord, neither is woman independent of man, nor is man independent of woman.

1Cor 14:34; The women are to keep silent in the churches; for they are not permitted to speak, but are to subject themselves, just as the Law also says.
1Cor 14:35; If they desire to learn anything, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is improper for a woman to speak in church.

1Tim 2:11; A woman must quietly receive instruction with entire submissiveness.
1Tim 2:12; But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet.
1Tim 2:13; For it was Adam who was first created, and then Eve.
1Tim 2:14; And it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression.

1Pet 3:1; In the same way, you wives, be submissive to your own husbands so that even if any of them are disobedient to the word, they may be won without a word by the behavior of their wives,
1Pet 3:5; For in this way in former times the holy women also, who hoped in God, used to adorn themselves, being submissive to their own husbands;
1Pet 3:6; just as Sarah obeyed Abraham, calling him lord, and you have become her children if you do what is right without being frightened by any fear.

 

[Charlie24]

Woman can be in ministry. Some women in the Bible were.

Jdgs 4:4; Now Deborah, a prophetess, the wife of Lappidoth, was judging Israel at that time.

Women can teach Sunday school lead childrens and womens Bible studies, worship services, and much more.
Women should never be head pastors. They should never have spiritual authority over men.

Gen 3:16; To the woman He said, "I will greatly multiply Your pain in childbirth, In pain you will bring forth children; Yet your desire will be for your husband, And he will rule over you."

Eph 5:23; For the husband is the head of the wife, as Christ also is the head of the church, He Himself being the Savior of the body.
Eph 5:24; But as the church is subject to Christ, so also the wives ought to be to their husbands in everything.

1Cor 11:9; for indeed man was not created for the woman's sake, but woman for the man's sake.
1Cor 11:10; Therefore the woman ought to have a symbol of authority on her head, because of the angels.
1Cor 11:11; However, in the Lord, neither is woman independent of man, nor is man independent of woman.

1Cor 14:34; The women are to keep silent in the churches; for they are not permitted to speak, but are to subject themselves, just as the Law also says.
1Cor 14:35; If they desire to learn anything, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is improper for a woman to speak in church.

1Tim 2:11; A woman must quietly receive instruction with entire submissiveness.
1Tim 2:12; But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet.
1Tim 2:13; For it was Adam who was first created, and then Eve.
1Tim 2:14; And it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression.

There is no way anyone can misunderstand what the Apostle Paul has said. It's just pure rebellion against the Word of God.

 

[Curtis]

According to Paul, is prophesying a qualification for a pastor? Is that how the Scripture tells us pastors were appointed?

Of course if you want to ignore the Master Builder of the Church and come to your own conclusions, then anyone is qualified to be a pastor.

Eph_4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

1Co 14:3 But he who prophesies speaks edification and exhortation and comfort to men.

Does a pastor ever edify, exhort, or comfort his congregation?

Men and women can all prophecy one at a time in the Church setting.

 

[Charlie24]

Eph_4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

1Co 14:3 But he who prophesies speaks edification and exhortation and comfort to men.

Does a pastor ever edify, exhort, or comfort his congregation?

Men and women can all prophecy one at a time in the Church setting.

My goodness Curtis, we're talking about the appointed office of a pastor.

Paul, being the Master Church Builder, personally picked those in his innermost circle to make these appointments.

We know that Timothy and Titus were among those who made these appointments.

 

[Curtis]

The denominations that resist women teachers, and preachers the most are those who say, "it is OK for women to teach in a Sunday class in another building, but never in the main sanctuary"

These people think the same way the religious people did in Jesus's day when he drove out all those who sold sheep, doves, and money changers in the outer courts of the Temple. They thought only the main Temple was Holy and not the outer courts.

These denominations who resist women teachers are total hypocrites as if the location of where the Word of God is spoken means anything.
The building means nothing as the church is the people, not a physical place.

 

[Charlie24]

The denominations that resist women teachers, and preachers the most are those who say, "it is OK for women to teach in a Sunday class in another building, but never in the main sanctuary"

These people think the same way the religious people did in Jesus's day when he drove out all those who sold sheep, doves, and money changers in the outer courts of the Temple. They thought only the main Temple was Holy and not the outer courts.

These denominations who resist women teachers are total hypocrites as if the location of where the Word of God is spoken means anything.
The building means nothing as the church is the people, not a physical place.

I don't doubt some Churches do that, but I can tell you none that I'm aware of do.

Our pastor allows women to teach women and children, but no woman can teach a man, period.

 

[Curtis]

I don't doubt some Churches do that, but I can tell you none that I'm aware of do.

Our pastor allows women to teach women and children, but no woman can teach a man, period.

Are any of those children “males” ?

 

[Charlie24]

Are any of those children “males” ?

NO, men teach the boys and women teach the girls.