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Elect according to the foreknowledge of God

Instead of pulling passages from all over can you go through the context of these passages and show how they support your claim?
Im using scripture to support . Its okay to draw from scripture from other context, the NT writers did it. All scripture 2 Tim 3:16

All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

If you dont like it, then dont respond.
 
Im using scripture to support . Its okay to draw from scripture from other context, the NT writers did it. All scripture 2 Tim 3:16

All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

If you dont like it, then dont respond.
You're using Scripture to try to support what you are saying. What I'm asking is, is that what the Scriptures really say? I could do the same thing and say salvation is by woks and quote Hebrews that says, 'He became eternal salvation to those who obey'. The Bible is so large that one could claim just about anything, jump around, and find passages that seem to support it. The question is, do they really support it. If they do, then the context of the passage will make that case. Your quotes from John and Eph. 1 are out of context. Because you're pulling one or two sentences the context is being missed.
 
You're using Scripture to try to support what you are saying. What I'm asking is, is that what the Scriptures really say? I could do the same thing and say salvation is by woks and quote Hebrews that says, 'He became eternal salvation to those who obey'. The Bible is so large that one could claim just about anything, jump around, and find passages that seem to support it. The question is, do they really support it. If they do, then the context of the passage will make that case. Your quotes from John and Eph. 1 are out of context. Because you're pulling one or two sentences the context is being missed.
Lol, how about I am using scripture friend.
 
Those given to Christ !

Jn 17:2

2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.

Those given to Christ, that do come to Him or do believe in Him, as it is evidenced by His Chosen disciples that were presently before Him when He was saying these words of Jn 17, now if any of those given Him by His Father, be lost, then He has failed His Fathers will for Him, for it is written Jn 6:37-38

37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will/desire/pleasure of him that sent me.

39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.


Now vs 39 is in regards to all the Father hath Chosen in Him Eph 1:4

And vs 40

40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

again emphasizes those Chosen, with the added comment of what is the result or effect of God's choice of them, they see [spiritually] the Son and Believe in Him. They must see Him because, as the father gave them to Him, He also Gave Him to them as a Covenant to them, which results in this Isa 42:6-7

I the Lord have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles;

7 To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house.

Yes, once their blind eyes are opened from their natural state of blindness, they see the Son, and Believe in Him as their Salvation, but if just one for whom was given to Him by the Father, should perish and be lost, Christ did fail His Father's will, desire, and pleasure; and those false teachers that teach that Christ died for any who shall be lost, they do preach Christ as a failure of His Father's will, which is Blasphemy at it's Highest. Simply Put, if we believe any for whom Christ died shall perish in their sins, we do blaspheme !
 
Of Him [The Father] are ye in Christ !

1 Cor 1:30

30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

Of Him the Father are any in Christ Jesus [ by which in Him is No Condemnation Rom 8:1], it is because of the Father's choice of some of us, that we are in Christ, and this choice was before the foundation of the World Eph 1:3-4

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

This Choice of the Father is also called Sanctification by the Father according to Jude 1:1

Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ, and called:

Whereby, by His Eternal Purpose of Election, He set us apart for His Son Jesus Christ. This Truth is also seen in Christ's Parable here Matt 22:1-5

And Jesus answered and spake unto them again by parables, and said,

2 The kingdom of heaven is like unto a certain king, which made a marriage for his son,

3 And sent forth his servants to call them that were bidden to the wedding: and they would not come.

4 Again, he sent forth other servants, saying, Tell them which are bidden, Behold, I have prepared my dinner: my oxen and my fatlings are killed, and all things are ready: come unto the marriage.

5 But they made light of it, and went their ways, one to his farm, another to his merchandise:

But vs 14 lets us know that all were not chosen Matt 22:14

14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

And those few are those here Eph 1:4

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: 3
 
Redemption is only for the Elect of God !

Eph 1:7

7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

Whose the we here Paul is referring to ? Its those Chosen in Christ before the foundation Eph 1:4

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

That the Redemption God gives is only for the Elect People is seen from the OT Scriptures which gives a Covenant Command Ps 130:7-8

7 Let Israel hope in the Lord: for with the Lord there is mercy, and with him is plenteous redemption.

8 And he shall redeem Israel from all his iniquities.

Israel is another name for God's Elect. Notice vs7, Its only the Elect that are called to Hope in God, and to find Mercy in Redemption, and only the Elect [Israel] that is promised to be redeemed from all His iniquties.

Its Israel or the Elect here also Titus 2:14

14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

Remember who Paul is writing to here in Titus ! Titus 1:1-2

Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;

2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;

Notice that the promise in Ps 130:8 for Israel is this:

8 And he shall redeem Israel from all his iniquities.

And notice what Christ came to do in His Death for His Elect in Titus 2:14

that he might redeem us from all iniquity !

You see its the same thing, to redeem from all iniquity a certain People, the Elect of God or the Israel of God. This also means that Israel and the Church are the same !
 
Im using scripture to support . Its okay to draw from scripture from other context, the NT writers did it. All scripture 2 Tim 3:16

All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

If you dont like it, then dont respond.
You guys are so damn lazy by just copy-paste walls of scriptural texts. That's called "throwing the book in your face" or "hiding behind the book." If you really understand what you're quoting and you're willing to engage in a meaningful conversation, then explain with your own words in proper context along with some scriptural reference as support. In all NT books there're OT references everywhere, Paul and Yeshua himself occasionally quoted OT verses, but they don't just copy-paste the entire passage to justify themselves without anything else. In fact, your behavior of using scripture against scripture is undermining the authority of the scripture, for all scripture is inspired by God and goes in concert, it does not contradict itself.
 
You guys are so damn lazy by just copy-paste walls of scriptural texts. That's called "throwing the book in your face" or "hiding behind the book." If you really understand what you're quoting and you're willing to engage in a meaningful conversation, then explain with your own words in proper context along with some scriptural reference as support. In all NT books there're OT references everywhere, Paul and Yeshua himself occasionally quoted OT verses, but they don't just copy-paste the entire passage to justify themselves without anything else. In fact, your behavior of using scripture against scripture is undermining the authority of the scripture, for all scripture is inspired by God and goes in concert, it does not contradict itself.
Hi There, Post 46 do you understand it, you want to discuss its contents:

 
Hi There, Post 46 do you understand it, you want to discuss its contents:

What claim did you make exactly?
 
Lol, how about I am using scripture friend.
You're using Scriputre, yes. The question is, are you using it correctly? Since you hold to Reformed doctrines I'll assume you believe that the elect can lose salvation. However, those who argue they can also use Scripture. I'm pretty sure you'd say they're wrong. So, if they can wrongly use Scripture to make their argument, so can you. Just because someone uses Scripture doesn't mean they correctly understand Scripture.

So, to show us you understand Scripture please explain how this all works in your own words.
 
Do we choose God, or does God choose us? The words “elect” of God means that we are “chosen” by God. Predestined by God means God had “foreknowledge” of whom He would predestine to be His “chosen” people. We see mention of this in God’s “chosen” people Israel. We see mention of this in God’s “chosen” priesthood. We see God chose Zion, we see God chose His holy city. We see God chose Jerusalem; where God also chose to place His name. Don’t you know God’s chosen people are Zion? Don’t you know God’s Holy City, and God’s New Jerusalem are His “chosen” people? As Peter said, we are the “elect” according to the “foreknowledge” of God.

Jeremiah is a good example, whom God said He knew “before” He formed Jeremiah in the womb. And whom God said was sanctified and ordained to be a prophet “before” He was even born. It is the same with Jesus, whom God foreknew, and whom God had chosen before the foundation of the world.

Jesus said in John 6:44 that no one can come to the Son unless the Father “first” draws him.

Jesus also said in John 6:65 “And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were “given” unto him of my Father.”

This is election, and being chosen “first” by God to come to His Son Jesus Christ.

Jesus said in John 6:39 “And this is the Fathers will which has sent me, that of all which He has “given” me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.”

Did we first create ourselves? Did we give birth to ourselves the first time? If we did not make ourselves and give birth to ourselves the first time, then how can we make ourselves a new creation and give birth to ourselves the second time? To God be the glory! Who makes one tree differ from another? Is it not God who makes all things? Did we earn the grace of God; or was it because God “first” favored us, and “first” loved us? Did we earn “the gift” of faith to believe?

It is written that faith comes BY hearing, and hearing By the Word of God. Did we “make” the ear that hears? No, it is God who makes, and gives us the ears to hear, and the faith to believe; and it is also God who “causes us” to walk the path of righteousness for His name’s sake. To God be the glory! Did we earn, or purchase “the gift” of the Holy Spirit, or was it freely given to us by God to His “chosen” people? Truth is, God knows whom He has chosen, He knows whom His elect are, even before they were born. God knows whose names are written in His book of Life even “before the foundation of the world”.

There is no boasting on our part, for everything we have, we have received from Him; to God belongs all the praise, honor, and glory!

I always like to prove all things by the words of God, so here are a few verses to confirm this message.


God chooses His people = God’s chosen, or elect.

Deuteronomy 7:6
For thou art an holy people unto the Lord thy God: the Lord thy “God hath chosen thee” to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.
Deuteronomy 14:2
For thou art an holy people unto the Lord thy God, and “the Lord hath chosen thee” to be a peculiar people unto himself, above all the nations that are upon the earth.
Deuteronomy 21:5 And the priests the sons of Levi shall come near; for them the Lord thy “God hath chosen” to minister unto him, and to bless in the name of the Lord; and by their word shall every controversy and every stroke be tried:
Psalm 33:12 Blessed is the nation whose God is the Lord; and the people whom “he hath chosen” for his own inheritance.

Psalm 89:3 “I have made a covenant with “my chosen”, I have sworn unto David my servant”
Psalm 105:6
O ye seed of Abraham his servant, ye children of Jacob “his chosen”.
Psalm 105:26
He sent Moses his servant; and Aaron whom “he had chosen”.
Psalm 132:13
For the Lord hath “chosen” Zion; he hath desired it for his habitation.

Psalm 135:4
For the Lord hath “chosen” Jacob unto himself, and Israel for his peculiar treasure.
Isaiah 41:8
But thou, Israel, art my servant, Jacob whom “I have chosen”, the seed of Abraham my friend.
Isaiah 44:2
Thus saith the Lord that made thee, and formed thee from the womb, which will help thee; Fear not, O Jacob, my servant; and thou, Jesurun, whom “I have chosen”.
Matthew 12:18
Behold my servant, whom “I have chosen”; my beloved, in whom my soul is well pleased: I will put my spirit upon him, and he shall shew judgment to the Gentiles.
Matthew 20:16
So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few “chosen”.
Matthew 22:14
For many are called, but few are “chosen”.
John 6:70
Jesus answered them, Have not “I chosen you” twelve, and one of you is a devil?
John 13:18
I speak not of you all: I know whom “I have chosen”: but that the scripture may be fulfilled, He that eateth bread with me hath lifted up his heel against me.
John 15:16
Ye have not chosen me, but “I have chosen you”, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.

John 15:19
If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but “I have chosen you” out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

Acts 1:2
Until the day in which he was taken up, after that he through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles “whom he had chosen:”

Acts 1:24
And they prayed, and said, Thou, Lord, which knowest the hearts of all men, shew whether of these two “thou hast chosen”,

Acts 9:15
But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is “a chosen vessel unto me”, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:

1 Corinthians 1:27
But “God hath chosen” the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;

1 Corinthians 1:28
And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath “God chosen”, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:
Ephesians 1:4
According as “he hath chosen us” in him “before” the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
2 Thessalonians 2:13
But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning “chosen you” to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
2 Timothy 2:4 No man that warreth entangleth himself with the affairs of this life; that he may please him who hath “chosen him” to be a soldier.
James 2:5
Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not “God chosen” the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him?
1 Peter 2:4
To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, “but chosen of God”, and precious,
1 Peter 2:9
But ye are a “chosen generation”, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;
Revelation 17:14
These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and “chosen”, and faithful.

Romans 8:29-33​

29 For whom he did “foreknow”, he also did “predestinate” to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.30 Moreover whom he did “predestinate”, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified. 31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's “elect?” It is God that justifieth.​

Jeremiah 1:5​

5 “Before” I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.​


Romans 9:8-26​

8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.9 For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sarah shall have a son.10 And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac;​

11 (For the children being “not yet born”, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to “election” might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth)​

12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy. 17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? 22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,24 Even us, whom “he hath called”, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?25 As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.26 And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God.”​

John 17:24
Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast “given me”, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.

Ephesians 1:4
According as he hath “chosen us” in him “before” the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
1 Peter 1:20
Who verily was “foreordained before the foundation of the world”, but was manifest in these last times for you,

Revelation 17:8 “The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life “from the foundation of the world”, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.”​

Titus 1:2 “In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised “before” the world began;”​

Isaiah 42:1
Behold my servant, whom I uphold; “mine elect”, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.

Isaiah 45:4
For Jacob my servant's sake, and Israel “mine elect”, I have even called thee by thy name: I have surnamed thee, though thou hast not known me.
Isaiah 65:9
And I will bring forth a seed out of Jacob, and out of Judah an inheritor of my mountains: and “mine elect” shall inherit it, and my servants shall dwell there.
Isaiah 65:22
They shall not build, and another inhabit; they shall not plant, and another eat: for as the days of a tree are the days of my people, and “mine elect” shall long enjoy the work of their hands.
Matthew 24:22
And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the “elect's” sake those days shall be shortened.
Matthew 24:24
For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very “elect.”
Matthew 24:31
And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together “his elect” from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Mark 13:20
And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for “the elect's” sake, whom he hath “chosen”, he hath shortened the days.
Mark 13:22
For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even “the elect.”
Mark 13:27
And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together “his elect” from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.
Luke 18:7
And shall not God avenge “his own elect”, which cry day and night unto him, though he bear long with them?
Romans 8:33
Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's “elect?” It is God that justifieth.
Romans 9:11
(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according “to election” might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)
Romans 11:5
Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to “the election of grace”.
Romans 11:7
What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but “the election” hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.
Romans 11:28
As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching “the election,” they are beloved for the father's sakes.
Colossians 3:12
Put on therefore, as “the elect of God”, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;
1 Thessalonians 1:4
Knowing, brethren beloved, “your election of God.”
1 Timothy 5:21
I charge thee before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, and “the elect” angels, that thou observe these things without preferring one before another, doing nothing by partiality.
2 Timothy 2:10
Therefore I endure all things for “the elect's” sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.
Titus 1:1
Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of “God's elect”, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;
1 Peter 1:2
“Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father”, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
1 Peter 2:6
Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, “elect”, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.
1 Peter 5:13
The church that is at Babylon, “elected” together with you, saluteth you; and so doth Marcus my son.
2 Peter 1:10
Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and “election” sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

God’s chosen people are the “holy city” Jerusalem, where God said He would place His name forever. ( 1 Kings 11:36, 2 Kings 21:4, 2 Kings 21:7, 2 Kings 23:27, 2 Chronicles 6:6, 2 Chronicles 33:4, 33:7, and Revelation 3:12)
Cherry picked scriptures to turn the truth on its head.

Partiality is wicked. Peter grasped that God is impartial Acts 10:34.

David says God is righteous in all His ways Psalm 145:17.

There is no righteousness in partiality, just ask Black lives matter.

I propose you go back to the drawing board and stop teaching utter heresy that paints God as the epitome of wickedness.

God's omniscience is not to be used in isolation to other scriptures that define Him. If you put a full stop after omniscience you land at heretical beliefs like this.

God is omniscient and righteous, both at the same time. It should therefore be obvious that he limits His omniscience if it would be evil not to. He does this with His omnipotence, we know this very well.
 
You're using Scriputre, yes. The question is, are you using it correctly? Since you hold to Reformed doctrines I'll assume you believe that the elect can lose salvation. However, those who argue they can also use Scripture. I'm pretty sure you'd say they're wrong. So, if they can wrongly use Scripture to make their argument, so can you. Just because someone uses Scripture doesn't mean they correctly understand Scripture.

So, to show us you understand Scripture please explain how this all works in your own words.
I have been putting my work in since august ! So if you interested in my understanding of this subject from what I gather from scripture, read my posts !
 
I have been putting my work in since august ! So if you interested in my understanding of this subject from what I gather from scripture, read my posts !
I know what you believe. My point is, that just quoting Scripture doesn't make one correct. There are a lot of people who wrongly quote Scripture to make their point. As I said, I'm pretty sure you'd say the people who say salvation can be lost are wrong. Yet, just like you, they quote Scripture. That's why I always ask you to explain the passages in context. If your understanding is correct they you'll be able to show it from the context the passage is found in.
 
Jesus always defends His Elect no matter how sinful !


1 Jn 2:1

My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

Rom 8:33-34

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

It is no secret that God's Elect are great sinners, simply because they as all men are, born sinners, and are by nature enemies to God and what is all Holy and Righteous, But, Christ who died and rose in their behalf will always defend them before God's Law and Justice from all deserving accusations !

This is vividly set forth with the case of Joshua the High Priest of the Lord Zech 3:1-4

And he shewed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the Lord, and Satan standing at his right hand to resist him.

2 And the Lord said unto Satan, The Lord rebuke thee, O Satan; even the Lord that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: is not this a brand plucked out of the fire?

3 Now Joshua was clothed with filthy garments, and stood before the angel.

4 And he answered and spake unto those that stood before him, saying, Take away the filthy garments from him. And unto him he said, Behold, I have caused thine iniquity to pass from thee, and I will clothe thee with change of raiment.

Joshua the High Priest was wearing filthy garments, analogous of all God's People by nature, and no doubt satan the accuser of the brethren had brought accusation against him Rev 12:9-10

9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

Now there is no doubt Joshua as well as all the Elect of God can be accused of something amiss in their lives here in this flesh Rom 7:18-19

18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

However notice the response from the Lord, for the Lord did not deny the filthiness of His Servant, but said:

The Lord rebuke thee, O Satan; even the Lord that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee

Yes, God pointed out that Joshua was part of that special Chosen People, the Jerusalem of God, even those Chosen in Christ Eph 1:4, in essence the Lord was echoing Paul's words here Rom 8:33-34

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

And then the Lord gives us to see, that He has clothed His Chosen People with His Own special woven Garments for them to wear

The Lord said

4 And he answered and spake unto those that stood before him, saying, Take away the filthy garments from him. And unto him he said, Behold, I have caused thine iniquity to pass from thee, and I will clothe thee with change of raiment.
Notice, God has taken away his iniquity, which speaks of the completed Work of Christ for the sins of His People, and then He clothes us with His Garments of Salvation, which is Christ's Righteousness Imputed to us ! Isa 61:10

I will greatly rejoice in the LORD, my soul shall be joyful in my God; for he hath clothed me with the garments of salvation, he hath covered me with the robe of righteousness, as a bridegroom decketh himself with ornaments, and as a bride adorneth herself with her jewels.
You see that ? Thats Free Grace , that is The Election of grace. The Lord Jesus Christ defends as a Defensive Attorney, an Advocate in the Court of law, all the Chosen of God, the Election of Grace, no matter how sinful they can be seen to be, simply because they are the Chosen, as such, converted or not, believers or not, they are Reconciled to God [In His Law and Justice] and Clothed in the Imputed Righteousness of Christ !
 
I know what you believe. My point is, that just quoting Scripture doesn't make one correct. There are a lot of people who wrongly quote Scripture to make their point. As I said, I'm pretty sure you'd say the people who say salvation can be lost are wrong. Yet, just like you, they quote Scripture. That's why I always ask you to explain the passages in context. If your understanding is correct they you'll be able to show it from the context the passage is found in.
Salvation can NEVER be lost. Once saved, always saved. However, there's the "unpardonable sin" of blaspheming against the Holy Spirit. One study bible defines it as,"to commit this sin one must consciously, persistently, deliberately, and maliciously reject the testimony of the Spirit to the deity and saving power of the Lord Jesus."

For those who are born again in Spirit but knowingly deny the Holy Spirit by committing this sin, there're dire consequences. They will suffer from their sins in their mortal life, physically and mentally, and they will lose their reward in the millennial kingdom, aka "being called the least in the kingdom", "cast in utter darkness with weeping and gnashing of teeth.“ They may enter the kingdom, but they won't inherit it, as Paul clearly warned that sinners like idolators, swindlers, homosexuals will not inherit the kingdom. Also, at the end of the millennium, when Satan's released, they may be deceived and joining in the rebellion as told in Rev. 20.
 
Salvation can NEVER be lost. Once saved, always saved. However, there's the "unpardonable sin" of blaspheming against the Holy Spirit. One study bible defines it as,"to commit this sin one must consciously, persistently, deliberately, and maliciously reject the testimony of the Spirit to the deity and saving power of the Lord Jesus."

For those who are born again in Spirit but knowingly deny the Holy Spirit by committing this sin, there're dire consequences. They will suffer from their sins in their mortal life, physically and mentally, and they will lose their reward in the millennial kingdom, aka "being called the least in the kingdom", "cast in utter darkness with weeping and gnashing of teeth.“ They may enter the kingdom, but they won't inherit it, as Paul clearly warned that sinners like idolators, swindlers, homosexuals will not inherit the kingdom. Also, at the end of the millennium, when Satan's released, they may be deceived and joining in the rebellion as told in Rev. 20.
I'd have to disagree that salvation can't be lost, but, I don't want to derail this thread. If you'd like to discuss this we could start a new thread. My point in that post is that Christians argue both sides of this issue and both sides quote Scripture. Since one side must be wrong, it shows just quoting Scripture doesn't necessary mean someone's argument is correct.
 
I'd have to disagree that salvation can't be lost, but, I don't want to derail this thread. If you'd like to discuss this we could start a new thread. My point in that post is that Christians argue both sides of this issue and both sides quote Scripture. Since one side must be wrong, it shows just quoting Scripture doesn't necessary mean someone's argument is correct.
You can quote Scripture to support anything, even demonic things from Satan. Jesus said it was better for Judas to never have been born and some leftists used that to defend abortion. Whoever that just copy-pastes a wall of text here is just being lazy and wanting to shut down a conversation by throwing the book at you. That’s an attitude and a strategy, it doesn’t have anything about the verses they quote, and you ain’t gonna get any insight.

About salvation, I won’t dive in too deep to derail the thread, but just think about it, since God brought the Israilites out of Egypt, did any of them come back? No matter how they protested against Moses and missed their old lives in slavery? If the answer is no, then so goes the question about losing salvation.
 
since God brought the Israilites out of Egypt, did any of them come back? No matter how they protested against Moses and missed their old lives in slavery? If the answer is no, then so goes the question about losing salvation.

Of course none of the ones that left Egypt entered the promised land. Including Moses himself.

Heb 4:3; For we who have believed enter that rest, just as He has said,“As I swore in My anger,
They certainly shall not enter My rest,”although His works were finished from the foundation of the world.
Heb 4:4; For He has said somewhere concerning the seventh day: “And God rested on the seventh day from all His works”;
Heb 4:5; and again in this passage, “They certainly shall not enter My rest.”
Heb 4:6; Therefore, since it remains for some to enter it, and those who previously had good news preached to them failed to enter because of disobedience,
 
You can quote Scripture to support anything, even demonic things from Satan. Jesus said it was better for Judas to never have been born and some leftists used that to defend abortion. Whoever that just copy-pastes a wall of text here is just being lazy and wanting to shut down a conversation by throwing the book at you. That’s an attitude and a strategy, it doesn’t have anything about the verses they quote, and you ain’t gonna get any insight.

About salvation, I won’t dive in too deep to derail the thread, but just think about it, since God brought the Israilites out of Egypt, did any of them come back? No matter how they protested against Moses and missed their old lives in slavery? If the answer is no, then so goes the question about losing salvation.
Hi Johnathan,

I agree. On the salvation issue, I'm not sure what you're getting at. But even before going to Scriputre, for the first 300 years of church history the universal belief was that one could lose salvation. That begs the question, where did they get this teaching from? Since it is the very first belief, logic dictates that it must be the true teaching. Since it was from the very beginning, it had to come from the apostles.

We do see this idea that salvation can't be lost being taught among the Gnostics. Origen, an early Christian writer actually refutes this idea as heresy. We don't see it creeping into the church until Augistine, who was a Gnostic, prior to becoming a Christian. Even at that though the Catholic Church rejected this idea. We then find it once again when the Reformers broke away from the Catholic Church. Luther was an Augustinian monk and Calvin was heavily influenced by Augustine.
 
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