ELON Musk receives Jesus? ( Sinner's prayer yes or no? )

[GodB4Us]

@God's Truth

Listen to first 3 minutes here. This points to what I mean as balance as well.

What are your thoughts on what the speaker says in the first 3 minutes about
faith & repentance. Not faith vs repentance but faith and repentance, and some
are scared that if you teach Grace it will cause people to sin more.

Share as well @GodB4Us and @Godbehonored , just the first 3 minutes of the video.

If you want his definition of legalism it is around 6 minutes and 16 seconds in the video.

Grace through faith in Jesus Christ is how we are saved but now that we are reconciled to God thru Jesus Christ, we are to LIVE that reconciled relationship with God thru Jesus Christ by looking to Him to help us live a life of repentance thereby walking in the light in fellowship with the Father & the Son in bearing fruit as His disciples to avoid losing our crowns and to avoid becoming a castaway for when the Bridegroom comes for not running that race by faith in Jesus Christ.

 

[MedicBravo]

You are spot on @MedicBravo when you say that God knows the true meaning. Indeed, you are correct.

Everything is flawed from our POV.
Given any biased POV including ours we must do better and learn to see things from all three different POV.

1. Christian
2. Non-Christian
3. Unbiased/Neutral

 

[Jesus_is_LORD]

Everything is flawed from our POV.
Given any biased POV including ours we must do better and learn to see things from all three different POV.

1. Christian
2. Non-Christian
3. Unbiased/Neutral

Interesting way to look at it.
Can you give me an example?

So let's say abortion, how would you use your paradigm above and how will that assist you
in doing so the way you have laid it out?

 

[Jesus_is_LORD]

He says it in the first 3 minutes.

I have tried to explain this to you before and you are resisting it.

Listen to what that man says, he says we are justified by faith alone.

Do you agree that when we are justified we are saved?

Please answer that first because I want so mush for you to understand and see where the false teaching is.

I will explain more after you answer that.

Let's take it slow, because it seems you are reading into something not said.

What is the exact sentence that you are quoting and the time stamp where you

hear him say that you don't have to repent?

I heard him say "Repentance is always the fruit of faith in our Lord Jesus Christ".

That is what I heard at 1:41 time stamp (

)

I did not hear, him say you don't have to repent. I heard him say that repentance is the

fruit of faith in Jesus. Notice the difference?

Start what what sentence you are looking at, and then tell me how you interpret it.

 

[Jesus_is_LORD]

@God's Truth , when you say that the speaker is saying you don't have to repent it would be like
me saying,

Sarah told her daughters you don't have to be beautiful.

No that is false,

Sarah did not tell her daughters you don't have to be beautiful,
Sarah told her daughters that beauty is the fruit of a good personality.

So if someone says, Sarah is clearly telling her daughters they don't have
to be beautiful and she wants them to be ugly, that would be a wrong interpretation
of what Sarah is saying.

Sarah indeed wants them to be beautiful, but she sees focusing on a good personality as the path.

So to say that this speaker is saying you don't have to repent, seems very off, or maybe you are
hearing something I'm missing. He is not saying you "don't have to repent". He is saying that
repentance is the fruit or faith. See the difference?

 

[God's Truth]

Let's take it slow, because it seems you are reading into something not said.
What is the exact sentence that you are quoting and the time stamp where you

I don't want to resort to that unless absolutely necessary.

hear him say that you don't have to repent?

That is what he means.

I heard him say "Repentance is always the fruit of faith in our Lord Jesus Christ".

Saying repentance is the fruit of faith means the person is saved first by faith alone and then repents sometime after being saved.

That is what I heard at 1:41 time stamp (

)

You might be having a problem understanding because you don't know what your church is actually teaching. Many people don't.

I did not hear, him say you don't have to repent. I heard him say that repentance is the

fruit of faith in Jesus. Notice the difference?

There is no difference. You just don't know the doctrine well enough it seems.

Start what what sentence you are looking at, and then tell me how you interpret it.

You didn't answer me about what I asked you.

I asked you if you believe a person is saved when they are justified.

Could you answer that before I try to explain more?

 

[God's Truth]

@God's Truth , when you say that the speaker is saying you don't have to repent it would be like
me saying,

Sarah told her daughters you don't have to be beautiful.

No that is false,

Sarah did not tell her daughters you don't have to be beautiful,
Sarah told her daughters that beauty is the fruit of a good personality.

So if someone says, Sarah is clearly telling her daughters they don't have
to be beautiful and she wants them to be ugly, that would be a wrong interpretation
of what Sarah is saying.

Sarah indeed wants them to be beautiful, but she sees focusing on a good personality as the path.

So to say that this speaker is saying you don't have to repent, seems very off, or maybe you are
hearing something I'm missing. He is not saying you "don't have to repent". He is saying that
repentance is the fruit or faith. See the difference?

Again, he says repentance is the FRUIT of faith.
He says obedience is the fruit of faith.
He says justification is by faith alone.

Do you believe a person is saved when they are justified?

Please answer that question.

 

[Jesus_is_LORD]

Again, he says repentance is the FRUIT of faith.
He says obedience is the fruit of faith.
He says justification is by faith alone.

Do you believe a person is saved when they are justified?

Please answer that question.

I believe that we are:

saved from the penalty of sin,
being saved from the power and sin,
and will be saved from the presence of sin.

So to your question, if someone is saved when they
are justified. Justification is the work of Christ, not our work.

Justification comes only through the work of Jesus, not through
what we do or how hard we work at at. If Jesus justifies you,
yes you are saved.

The problem is we can't see into the spiritual realm, we don't know
who is saved or whose profession of faith is genuine or not. But if
one truly believes and this faith is saving faith, yes, they are saved
and justified at the same time.

I see the speaker saying it as the two go together.
Yes, he mentions a sequence, but I don't see it as being separated.

A plant bears fruit because I plant a seed. Yes the seed comes before
the fruit, but the two are inextricably connected. The fruit is already there
in seed form when the seed is planted in the ground.

I see it as going together. Working in tandem.

Jesus will not justify those who don't repent, and
repentance by itself does not justify you.

Judas repented of his evil and give back the money, but He didn't
put his faith in Jesus and hung himself. Judas even mourned and said
that he had betrayed innocent blood. He had sorrow, but not unto life.

So once again, they go together, the seed of faith and repentance.
One's repentance does not justify them apart from faith, just as Judas' repentace
did not justify him. Likewise Jesus will not justify those who have not repented.

 

[Jesus_is_LORD]

So who Justifies, well God does.------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen? It is God who justifies."
Romans 8:33

And how are we justified? Well by faith---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Romans 3:28
For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law.

Romans 5:1
Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,


And what does it take to have faith or believe, well we need to repent--------------------------------------------------------------

Mark 1:15
“The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent and believe[faith] in the gospel.”


It is all connected, you see?

I can't make the connection any clearer of how they are connected than what is listed plainly above.
If you don't see what is clearly written, I don't really know what else to say.

(1) You can't say God doesn't justify because it clearly says so above
(2) You can't say we are not justified by faith, because it clearly says so above
(3) You can't say that we are not told to repent &&& believe[faith] because it is clearly written above.
The WORD didn't say repent then believe, it reads repent &&& believe, they go together.

All you could possibly say, is well, what they mean is something else.
Which will get into speculation and not what is clearly written in Black and White,
and I'm not sure I'm up for speculation when the WORD clearly shows the connection of all 3.

 

[God's Truth]

I believe that we are:

So there you might understand then that that preacher said justification by faith alone. That means he is saying faith alone and then AFTER a person is saved they will start to repent of sins and obey.

However, that is NOT as Jesus teaches in the scriptures.

saved from the penalty of sin,
being saved from the power and sin,
and will be saved from the presence of sin.

So to your question, if someone is saved when they
are justified. Justification is the work of Christ, not our work.

Not our work means we didn't have to get a lamb to sacrifice for its blood.

It doesn't mean we don't have to repent of our sins first.

Justification comes only through the work of Jesus, not through
what we do or how hard we work at at. If Jesus justifies you,
yes you are saved.

Jesus' blood justifying us means we don't have to get circumcised, adhere to a special diet, do an external bath and sacrifice and animal.

We still have to repent of our sins to him though!

The problem is we can't see into the spiritual realm, we don't know
who is saved or whose profession of faith is genuine or not. But if
one truly believes and this faith is saving faith, yes, they are saved
and justified at the same time.

That is a false teaching that hinders people from getting saved.

I see the speaker saying it as the two go together.
Yes, he mentions a sequence, but I don't see it as being separated.

Of course it is separate.
He says a person is justified by faith alone and then they obey and repent.

I know many people who have faith and DO NOT OBEY AND REPENT, but they still believe they are saved.

A plant bears fruit because I plant a seed. Yes the seed comes before
the fruit, but the two are inextricably connected. The fruit is already there
in seed form when the seed is planted in the ground.

I see it as going together. Working in tandem.

Jesus will not justify those who don't repent, and
repentance by itself does not justify you.

You just contradicted yourself.

You do know you just contradicted yourself don't you?

Judas repented of his evil and give back the money, but He didn't
put his faith in Jesus and hung himself. Judas even mourned and said
that he had betrayed innocent blood. He had sorrow, but not unto life.

He didn't have faith in Jesus.

He did what the old law said to do when you are guilty of shedding innocent blood.

So once again, they go together, the seed of faith and repentance.

THAT IS NOT WHAT YOU FIRST SAID AND IT IS NOT WHAT THAT PREACHER SAID.
(My all caps are just to highlight and make sure you see this important fact.)

One's repentance does not justify them apart from faith, just as Judas' repentace

Judas didn't repent to Jesus.
Judas did want the old law required.

did not justify him. Likewise Jesus will not justify those who have not repented.

If you believe that, then you need to see that you are contradicting yourself from what you said at the beginning of this post and you are going against that preacher on the video.

 

[Jesus_is_LORD]

I know many people who have faith and DO NOT OBEY AND REPENT, but they still believe they are saved.

Must not be saving faith.

We know faith without works is dead. If the work of repentance of a change life is not there, it is not saving faith.
Even the demons believe, but they don't have saving faith.

 

[Jesus_is_LORD]

He didn't have faith in Jesus.

Exactly my point.

He repented but didn't have faith in Jesus, both are needed.

 

[God's Truth]

So who Justifies, well God does.------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen? It is God who justifies."
Romans 8:33

And how are we justified? Well by faith---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Romans 3:28
For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law.

Romans 5:1
Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,


And what does it take to have faith or believe, well we need to repent--------------------------------------------------------------

Mark 1:15
“The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent and believe[faith] in the gospel.”


It is all connected, you see?

You are the one who isn't seeing it.
You think Paul is saying faith alone saves, but then you give a scripture where Jesus says repent of your sins.

It is connected all right, but not the way you and that preacher say.

That preacher said faith alone saves and then a person will repent of their sins and obey.

That is not what Paul is saying and it isn't what Jesus says.

These are the things the Jews used to have to do to be justified before God, the people did these works:


The Burnt Offering; The Grain Offering; The Fellowship Offering; The Sin Offering; The Guilt Offering; Dietary Laws; Purification After Childbirth; Cleansing From Infectious Skin Diseases; Cleansing From Mildew; Discharges Causing Uncleanness; The Day of Atonement; Rules for Priests; The Sabbath; Firstfruits; The Passover and Unleavened Bread; Feast of Weeks; Feast of Trumpets; Feast of Tabernacles; Oil and Bread Set Before The LORD; the Sabbath Year; The Year of Jubilee; Circumcision.



Now we are justified just by believing JESUS DOES ALL THOSE THINGS FOR US.

We still have to repent of our sins to Jesus, we just don't have to do THOSE WORKS OF THE LAW ANYMORE. The works of the law are the purification works.

I can't make the connection any clearer of how they are connected than what is listed plainly above.
If you don't see what is clearly written, I don't really know what else to say.

You are the one who isn't seeing.

You heard with your own ears that man say justified by faith alone and THEN repentance.

We have to repent of our sins to Jesus FIRST and then HAVE FAITH THAT HE WILL WASH OUR SINS AWAY and purify us.

(1) You can't say God doesn't justify because it clearly says so above

Ugh. Where would YOU EVER you should say that to me?

(2) You can't say we are not justified by faith, because it clearly says so above

The scriptures say we are JUSTIFIED by faith---BUT YOUR FALSE TEACHERS SAY WE AREN'T SUPPOSED TO REPENT OF OUR SINS TOO FIRST.

(3) You can't say that we are not told to repent &&& believe[faith] because it is clearly written above.
The WORD didn't say repent then believe,

Acts 20:21 I have declared to both Jews and Greeks that they must turn to God in repentance and have faith in our Lord Jesus.

it reads repent &&& believe, they go together.

Then stop teaching faith alone. That man on the video says that if you did anything like repent of your sins to get saved THEN YOU ARE NOT SAVED BY GOD'S GRACE.

You don't know he says that? Really? You didn't hear him say that? You don't know all faith alone preachers say that? THEY SAY THAT EVIL MESS. I have people saying that to me all the time.

All you could possibly say, is well, what they mean is something else.
Which will get into speculation and not what is clearly written in Black and White,
and I'm not sure I'm up for speculation when the WORD clearly shows the connection of all 3.

You are wrong, there is no speculations.

 

[MedicBravo]

Interesting way to look at it.
Can you give me an example?

So let's say abortion, how would you use your paradigm above and how will that assist you
in doing so the way you have laid it out?

I can but doing it as well as teaching others is largely lost through text-only interaction.
We must first note there are multiple kinds of abortions.

1. Elective abortion of an viable unborn human baby regardless of trimester.
2. Medical abortions. Largely done to save the life of the mother b/c one or multiple reasons development may kill the mother. In rare instances, both live as it can be done medically to induce early but no minority or rare group defines a majority.
3. Spontaneous abortion. Many variables in this one but the woman's body, innately knows if a growing baby is doing well or not. If it is not going well or other factors like drugs, personal health, injury, genetics, etc. then it happens. There's nothing she can do about it and often in these cases she isn't far enough in the pregnancy and some didn't even now until after it happened.

Abortion - dictionary definitions. Unbiased. Medical abortions - Unbiased. Elective abortions of healthy, viable unborn baby humans - Biased.
Q1: When does human life begin? The look of the embryo/fetus/unborn baby is irrelevant regardless of what stage. We cannot change how we reproduce and that only women can get pregnant and men can only get women pregnant regardless of the normal sex/gender binary or one's abnormal subjective identity.
A1: Human life beings at conception. Biological and medical fact. - UNBIASED.
A1 Christian: "Jeremiah 1;5 "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born I consecrated you; I appointed you a prophet to the nations." - One of many. - BIASED.
A1 Non-Christian: Personhood argument. It's not a "person" until it's born and even then many are arguing to abort AFTER it is born. I won't type every argument they have. - BIASED.

5 Non-Religious Arguments Against Abortion

Opponents often assume that pro-life arguments are religion-based. Here are 5 strong non-religious arguments against abortion.

www.catholic.com

I and many work and have a lot of experience in Medicine. We know far more about abortion than the general public. No amount of looking online will get you the info and experience than working IN that area in part or whole.
There is this one short video:
A doctor who used to perform abortions, Dr. Levatino, testifies in court about the SHOCKING truth about abortions.

Given that one video alone any one person can view it from all three POV. I can assure you any Christian who supports elective abortions after that is NOT a Christian. "Do not murder."
Those who still do NOT change their minds after this are too far gone. 99% who still fight for elective abortions will never change and any Christian should pray for the 1% who hopefully will change.

 

[Jesus_is_LORD]

If you believe that, then you need to see that you are contradicting yourself from what you said at the beginning of this post and you are going against that preacher on the video.

What did I say in the beginning?

 

[Jesus_is_LORD]

We have to repent of our sins to Jesus FIRST and then HAVE FAITH THAT HE WILL WASH OUR SINS AWAY and purify us.

Let me ask you a question.

You say we have to repent of our sins FIRST.

Why would someone repent? Who are they turning to?
Are they not turning to Jesus?

Why would they turn to Jesus if they didn't trust Him?
So they must trust Him if they are turning to Him, yes?

Isn't that trust the works with repentance what we call faith?

I'm saying they go together.

 

[God's Truth]

Must not be saving faith.

LOL!!!!!!!

See what you did?!

You did what the false faith alone people do.

So then, if it wasn't the saving kind of faith, then how do you NOT UNDERSTAND that FAITH ALONE IS DEAD and CANNOT SAVE ANYONE?

Saving faith isn't a WAIT AND SEE SALVATION.

Faith that saves is alive by REPENTING OF SINS.

We know faith without works is dead.

There you go back and forth. You don't know what you are doing?

If the work of repentance of a change life is not there, it is not saving faith.

LOL Then PREACH IT RIGHT THE FIRST TIME AND NOT THE FALSE FAITH ALONE LIE.

Even the demons believe, but they don't have saving faith.

Just like all the others with the false faith alone doctrine...they bring in the demons believe and do something scripture. THAT SCRIPTURE from James is to SHAME people for believing in faith alone! He says even the demons believe and do something---they shudder. That is to shame people with faith alone beliefs.

James 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

 

[Jesus_is_LORD]

I can but doing it as well as teaching others is largely lost through text-only interaction.
We must first note there are multiple kinds of abortions.

1. Elective abortion of an viable unborn human baby regardless of trimester.
2. Medical abortions. Largely done to save the life of the mother b/c one or multiple reasons development may kill the mother. In rare instances, both live as it can be done medically to induce early but no minority or rare group defines a majority.
3. Spontaneous abortion. Many variables in this one but the woman's body, innately knows if a growing baby is doing well or not. If it is not going well or other factors like drugs, personal health, injury, genetics, etc. then it happens. There's nothing she can do about it and often in these cases she isn't far enough in the pregnancy and some didn't even now until after it happened.

Abortion - dictionary definitions. Unbiased. Medical abortions - Unbiased. Elective abortions of healthy, viable unborn baby humans - Biased.
Q1: When does human life begin? The look of the embryo/fetus/unborn baby is irrelevant regardless of what stage. We cannot change how we reproduce and that only women can get pregnant and men can only get women pregnant regardless of the normal sex/gender binary or one's abnormal subjective identity.
A1: Human life beings at conception. Biological and medical fact. - UNBIASED.
A1 Christian: "Jeremiah 1;5 "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born I consecrated you; I appointed you a prophet to the nations." - One of many. - BIASED.
A1 Non-Christian: Personhood argument. It's not a "person" until it's born and even then many are arguing to abort AFTER it is born. I won't type every argument they have. - BIASED.

5 Non-Religious Arguments Against Abortion

Opponents often assume that pro-life arguments are religion-based. Here are 5 strong non-religious arguments against abortion.

www.catholic.com

I and many work and have a lot of experience in Medicine. We know far more about abortion than the general public. No amount of looking online will get you the info and experience than working IN that area in part or whole.
There is this one short video:
A doctor who used to perform abortions, Dr. Levatino, testifies in court about the SHOCKING truth about abortions.

Given that one video alone any one person can view it from all three POV. I can assure you any Christian who supports elective abortions after that is NOT a Christian. "Do not murder."
Those who still do NOT change their minds after this are too far gone. 99% who still fight for elective abortions will never change and any Christian should pray for the 1% who hopefully will change.

Thanks for the reply,

So what value was added by adding the Non-Christian POV.

And what is your definition of BIASED, if you look at GOD's WORD at biased and the science of man as unbiased.
You do know that science isn't truth, do you?

Science is our way of trying to arrive at truth through the scientific method and science changes often
as we learn more.

Is the earth the center of the universe? Well depends on in which time period you live, you will get a different answer from science.
Do cell phones cause cancer? Well depends on which time period you live in, you will get a different science answer.
What is the smallest particle? Is it an atom, a proton, a quark, a string? Well depends on what time period you live in, science will give you a different answer.

So when you speak of science as being facts and unbiased, I'm not sure I agree with you on that.
Especially not that everything scientist say is a "fact".
Science does not speak, humans speak. And science even more recently
has been very politicized, and research can often be funded to support different causes leading to strong
biases. Not disagree with your point of what biology says about life, but just pointing to your underlying point
that getting a scientific perspective means you are getting the facts, that is far from true.

 

[God's Truth]

Exactly my point.

He repented but didn't have faith in Jesus, both are needed.

But you are NOT saying both are needed when you say faith alone saves and THEN LATER YOU REPENT OF SINS.

 

[Jesus_is_LORD]

LOL Then PREACH IT RIGHT THE FIRST TIME AND NOT THE FALSE FAITH ALONE LIE.

Just like all the others with the false faith alone doctrine...they bring in the demons believe and do something scripture. THAT SCRIPTURE from James is to SHAME people for believing in faith alone! He says even the demons believe and do something---they shudder. That is to shame people with faith alone beliefs.

Amen Amen.

I realized something.
I realized what is happening here.

I don't know you fully and you don't know me fully.

However, you have a label ("false faith alone Christians) and you hear certain words from me about faith, and you
are putting me in that category, but I don't fit.

So when I speak, you are attributing beliefs shared by those in that category that you are looking at,
and thinking I represent them. Instead of listening to what I'm saying.

So when I speak, you are viewing it through the lens of the label you have assigned me.
This gives you the perception that I can flip flopping.

But I think overall you and I would not tell anyone not to repent
and we would not tell anyone not to have faith in Jesus.

And I think that is a good place to leave it.