Faith or works or both?

[Dave M]

The term " works " means to be involved. You can not have Faith and not be involved . Faith without action ( or works ) is dead

this is good also "You can not have Faith and not be involved "

here is something I have written on my daily calendar.. "If you believe right you behave right"

 

[Born Again 2004]

Sure, all good answers, here is mine: Sure, once saved we long to do good things and please God. BUT, it is not our "works", it is His work through us, least we could boast.
This is who He is: 1 Corinthians 13: 4-7... He wants us to be like this 24/7 but we fail. God does all these perfectly, we can't but striving for these is what keeps our Faith from being empty. The constant urging to be better is from him, it is His works! We want to do these..the "Old Man" is gone, the new has come. Otherwise, you could care less. Thank God for his saving Grace!

 

[Sue D.]

1 Corinthians 13 is describing Godly love. vs 4-7. Things that love does - how it acts.

And it Is true that faith without works is dead. through a persons' works, their faith is seen.

The 'works' we do are not to Get our salvation, they are Afterwords -- not to Keep our salvation , but the things we Do, will be things we desire To do as the result OF our salvation.

There is a tendency to want to add To our salvation just to make sure it's Really secure. There is a tendency to Not believe in the sufficiency of the blood of Christ / the cross of calvary. "For by Grace, you are saved through faith, not of ourselves, it is a gift of God. We are to place our Faith in God / the sufficiency of the blood of Christ shed on the cross and His bodily resurrection from the dead. / yes, grace / His unmerited favor towards us.. No one ever deserves salvation. Can't be earned. But it Is the gift presented by God to us. We either accept or reject that gift and we say 'thank you' to God For it. We acknowledge our personal need For it.

 

[Brother-Paul]

Works , the term . Is the biggest conundrum ever , or in other words , misunderstood .

The term " works " isnt anything that we do for ourselves , it is what we do for others in a selfless mode. Just look at Matt. 25 . These people stood before God. They didnt even know who Jesus was, yet they were the ones Jesus called " the Virtuous " . And why were they the Virtuous , its because they had done things for others .

All the while , those who knew Jesus were rejected.. " we cast out demons in you name " ( we already know , you have to be with Jesus to cast out demons in the first place, yet these were dismissed to hell. Because they also we not Virtuous.

Greetings brother,

The way I read the verses you have provided, is to be ready for Christ's return. Five of the virgins were ready, oil in lamps and wicks trimmed, the 5 foolish virgins were not ready, they didn't have enough oil in their lamps.

There is an interesting twist in these verses, I think, Jesus tells us to share of what we have with others, here there is no sharing, I have enough oil, I am ready and waiting for my Lord, you should have brought enough for yourselves.

Blessings

 

[Sue D.]

this is good also "You can not have Faith and not be involved "

here is something I have written on my daily calendar.. "If you believe right you behave right"

And it's Because OF our faith that we Want to be involved.

And That happens because of the Holy Spirit indwelling the individual. And He comes to indwell and never leaves us at the moment of our salvation.

 

[Dave M]

And it's Because OF our faith that we Want to be involved.

exactly we are new creatures, with new desires once born again

 

[Sue D.]

Greetings brother,

The way I read the verses you have provided, is to be ready for Christ's return. Five of the virgins were ready, oil in lamps and wicks trimmed, the 5 foolish virgins were not ready, they didn't have enough oil in their lamps.

There is an interesting twist in these verses, I think, Jesus tells us to share of what we have with others, here there is no sharing, I have enough oil, I am ready and waiting for my Lord, you should have brought enough for yourselves.

Blessings

A person is responsible for his/ her Own salvation. We can't accept Christ for anyone else. I won't end up in heaven by my parent's salvation. People can Pray for me that I'll at some point accept Jesus Christ as my personal Savior, but I still have to be the one realizing my Personal need For my own salvation and accepting on my own. It's a relationship with God that He wants to have with us on a personal basis.

 

[Brother-Paul]

this is good also "You can not have Faith and not be involved "

here is something I have written on my daily calendar.. "If you believe right you behave right"

Greetings Dave

Faith is so important to the Christian, Scripture tells us that, without it, it is impossible to please God.

Hebrews 11:6 (NKJV)
But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.

Yet faith is a powerful gift from God, Christ told His disciples that, faith the size of a mustard seed, they could move mountains.
Faith can uproot a mulberry bush! Faith cam move mountains! Is Faith therefore work?

Ephesians 2:8-10 (NKJV)
For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,
not of works, lest anyone should boast.
For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

Although work is important in our Christian life, is it not important to look at what type of work and the context of the passages.

I am working on it.

Bless you

 

[Brother-Paul]

A person is responsible for his/ her Own salvation. We can't accept Christ for anyone else. I won't end up in heaven by my parent's salvation. People can Pray for me that I'll at some point accept Jesus Christ as my personal Savior, but I still have to be the one realizing my Personal need For my own salvation and accepting on my own. It's a relationship with God that He wants to have with us on a personal basis.

Greeting sister, I cannot agree more, we are all responsible for our sins, and salvation. Our sins remain with us unless we are saved, born-again. We agree sister.

The point I was making, in Post #104, when I said...

The way I read the verses you have provided, is to be ready for Christ's return. Five of the virgins were ready, oil in lamps and wicks trimmed, the 5 foolish virgins were not ready, they didn't have enough oil in their lamps.

There is an interesting twist in these verses, I think, Jesus tells us to share of what we have with others, here there is no sharing, I have enough oil, I am ready and waiting for my Lord, you should have brought enough for yourselves.

was that we are to be ready for Christ's return, each one of us, every individual soul. But then I added the twist in scripture, Jesus tells us to share what we have with those less fortunate than ourselves, here the five wise virgins, on the point of expecting Jesus' return in glory, is more or less saying, I am not sharing my oil, tuff, you should have brought enough for yourself.

I am, like you obviously aware of the context of the message, but it is an interesting twist I think.

Shalom

 

[Brother-Paul]

And it's Because OF our faith that we Want to be involved.

And That happens because of the Holy Spirit indwelling the individual. And He comes to indwell and never leaves us at the moment of our salvation.

and

exactly we are new creatures, with new desires once born again

Here is another interesting twist if I may.

If the spirit of Christ lives in us, he does, He lives in every saved soul, then who is actually doing the work.

Shalom

 

[Dave M]

then who is actually doing the work

the one who gives us new desires

 

[PloughBoy]

The parables always explains its self within the parable or the group of parables in which the parable exist.

In
(Matthew 25:12).
The Lord told the unwise virgins [Nominal christians] Truly I tell you, I don’t know you!
The virgin story is a metaphor, for that culture.
The words; “Virgins”, “know you”, “Bridegroom“, These words literally means hardly anything precious in this generation although, though out “Holy Scripture” The Lord our GOD holds so dearly, and cries out from the depths of His being, “be Ye Holy for “I AM” Holy” A Bride was so special in the eyes of the “BrideGroom“ she prepared herself for that Day when she would finally meet On that special day. Though out “Holy Scripture” God relates this story concerning His Son and His Gift of a unchaste Bride to His only begotten Son and the “Wedding Banquet”

Behold, another “biblical motif” of “The Rapture” of the “Church of the Living God”!

 

[Butch5]

Should we follow the commandments of Christ or just believe that He died for us?

Yes, one must follow Jesus' commandments. He told the apostles to go and make disciples. A disciple is one who follows the teachings of another.

 

[Born Again 2004]

Yes , you must try but failure to follow just one is the same as failing all the comandments.

 

[Sue D.]

Following Jesus's commandments, yes. But salvation is Not based on following His commandments. That would be a works-based salvation.

We Are told to love the Lord our God with all our heart, mind and soul and our neighbor as ourselves. The most important Of them. But salvation is based on 1 Corinthians 15: 1-3 and Romans 10:9 - 10 beginning with acknowledging on a personal level that '"I" personally am a sinner. Then that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and that He died on the cross, was buried and on the 3rd day rose bodily from the dead. Belief in our heart and confession unto salvation. Thanking God for His gift of salvation that "I" want to accept.

And it's true that no one can follow all the commandments all of the time -- that Could be prideful on a person's part. Breaking One commandment is equal to breaking them all. So - the Ten Commandments will lead a person to the realization of the need For the cross.

 

[PloughBoy]

I thought we where talking about presenting the Gospel of Jesus Christ according to His command to the unbeliever. Not salvation!

 

[Sue D.]

And I thought that presenting the Gospel of Jesus Christ unto salvation Was salvation.

 

[PloughBoy]

Salvation is a gift from God, not earn in anyway. Now the elect of God hears His voice, who was chosen before there was a cosmos. They are the good seed that was planted in the earth and the Gospel is the water that waters it, that causes it to bud and the Father causes it to grow into the image of His only begotten Son. No one determines their salvation. It was a good seed unto salvation before the beginning of time.

 

[Sue D.]

Your theology is a bit off. While Some of what you're saying Is true. God is the Only One who knows Who the 'elect of God' are. The Holy Spirit is the One who does the speaking to the individual heart. You're refering to the parable of the seed planted in the various soils. The seed is the Word of God and the soils are people. The elect Will accept Christ as personal Savior. But the Gospel unto Salvation Still has to be accepted or rejected. God alone knows who will or won't.

The good seed/ the elect of God / people have not been planted as seeds and fertilized by the Gospel -- we are not the parable. God was showing a truth to people in an agrarian home life.

 

[PloughBoy]

A parable is a parable I think I know what the word parable means That is a grade school word.