From what exactly did Jesus's sacrifice "save" us?

[th1bill]

And as far as 1 John 14:15 goes, those who try to make it seem that Jesus is telling us that we must keep His commandments, or else! They're reading that verse backwards as if He's saying we will suffer condemnation and destruction for any disobedience. But that's not what Jesus is saying at all

I did not imply that at all. We are incapable of committing past sins and thus must have Grace. But even the Ten are His Commands. The other six hundred and three are man-made garbage to be ignored. We should always seek to obey all of the commands of our creator. We will fail because we already did but we still need to strive. The last 27 books are all about attempting to live Holy.

 

[Still Learning]

I did not imply that at all. We are incapable of committing past sins and thus must have Grace. But even the Ten are His Commands. The other six hundred and three are man-made garbage to be ignored. We should always seek to obey all of the commands of our creator. We will fail because we already did but we still need to strive. The last 27 books are all about attempting to live Holy.

I showed you Scripture which very specifically states that the Old Covenant 10 Commandments bring death, not eternal life like the Spirit does in the New Covenant. You need to embrace the leading of the Holy Spirit. because as long as your still alive to the Old Covenant 10 Commandments, it's going to only bring death and condemnation by preventing you from being born again of God's Holy Spirit.

He has enabled us to be ministers of his NEW COVENANT. This is a covenant not of written laws, but OF THE SPIRIT. The old written covenant ends in death; but UNDER THE NEW COVENANT, THE SPIRIT GIVES LIFE. THE OLD WAY, WITH LAWS ETCHED IN STONE, LED TO DEATH, though it began with such glory that the people of Israel could not bear to look at Moses’ face. For his face shone with the glory of God, even though the brightness was already fading away. Shouldn’t we expect far greater glory under THE NEW WAY, now that the Holy Spirit is GIVING LIFE? If THE OLD WAY, WHICH BRINGS CONDEMNATION, was glorious, how much more glorious is THE NEW WAY, WHICH MAKES US RIGHT WITH GOD! (2 Corinthians 3:6-9)​

Let go of the Old Covenant. It's outdated and obsolete. You need to discard it.

When God speaks of a “new” covenant, it means he has made the first one obsolete. It is now out of date and is to be promptly discarded. (Hebrews 8:13)​

​

So many people at this site want to argue the Old Covenant Law. But that is a useless waste of time. And we New Covenant Christians are told to avoid it. We are to argue in favor of the New Covenant of the Spirit where we experience God's grace. Enough with the arguments pertaining to the Old Covenant Law already. We Christians aren't to have anything to do with it,

​

Do not get involved in foolish discussions about spiritual pedigrees or in quarrels and fights about obedience to Jewish laws. These things are useless and a waste of time. If people are causing divisions among you, give a first and second warning. After that, have nothing more to do with them. (Titus 3:9-10)​

​

Please don't try to convince me to go back to anything having to do with the Old Covenant 10 Commandments/Law. They don't apply to a New Covenant Christian like myself. I have studied them and learned from them, and I understand them. I developed sound doctrine through understanding them in their proper context. I'm all about the freedom and perfection Christ has provided to those of us who are born again of God. I'm interested in helping others to receive what I've received. The Old Covenant Law is for sinners, not the righteous. Christ's Church/Body/Bride has been made righteous. We're good to go with God.

For example, a person must realize that those laws are not intended for people who have God’s approval. Laws are intended for lawbreakers and rebels, for ungodly people and sinners, for those who think nothing is holy or sacred, for those who kill their fathers, their mothers, or other people. Laws are intended for people involved in sexual sins, for homosexuals, for kidnappers, for liars, for those who lie when they take an oath, and for whatever else is against accurate teachings. (1 Timothy 1:9-10)​

​

Not one of those things which that passage says the Law is for describes me. I am none of those things. Are you picking up what I'm laying down?

 

[th1bill]

I am not arguing that any live the Ten and to avoid more unprovoked conflict, there is no need to respond, this educational moment is over.

 

[Christ4Ever]

Thanks in advance!

From what exactly did Jesus's sacrifice "save" us?​

I know that one should never answer a question with a question...unless you are one of those learned folks here not me for sure!

A question that I would like to ask is "What did Jesus' sacrifice cost Him?" that is the question that yours brings to mind.

I find it easier to think from my perspective was what really was the cost for us, but gain! While for Jesus' I would ask again, what was the cost for Him? For that is what tares at my heart and brings tears to my eyes, when I have Communion.

Just a rambling thought in passing brother/sister? Let me know which and I'll change your bio to reflect the appropriate one. This will also allow you access to the appropriate forum for the gender that you are.

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC/Moderator
Nick
\o/
<><

 

[Still Learning]

A question that I would like to ask is "What did Jesus' sacrifice cost Him?" that is the question that yours brings to mind.

I'd say it cost Jesus' fellowship with His Father. Jesus took all of the sins of the whole world upon Himself, and the Father's eyes cannot look upon evil such as sin is. Jesus having become sin for us separated Him from His Father, and I think this caused the most severe agony of anything that's ever existed. I don't think even eternity in the Lake of Fire will be as bad. Anyway, Jesus had never experienced that ever in His eternity past, and I think that really caused the worst of Christ's sufferings. And He had been put through some pretty extreme sufferings.

So, I think the answer to your question, "What did Jesus' sacrifice cost Him?" is that it cost Jesus His connection to His Father.

And at three in the afternoon Jesus cried out in a loud voice, “Eloi, Eloi, lema sabachthani?” (which means “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?”). (Mark 15:34)​

He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world. (1 John 2:2)​

​

But you are pure and cannot stand the sight of evil. Will you wink at their treachery? Should you be silent while the wicked swallow up people more righteous than they? (Habakkuk 1:13)​

​

God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God. (2 Corinthians 5:21)​

​

Jesus paid the ULTIMATE price to buy us the ultimate gift. What a blessing! \o/

 

[Still Learning]

I did not imply that at all. We are incapable of committing past sins and thus must have Grace. But even the Ten are His Commands. The other six hundred and three are man-made garbage to be ignored. We should always seek to obey all of the commands of our creator. We will fail because we already did but we still need to strive. The last 27 books are all about attempting to live Holy.

I was previously educated. I understood what you were trying to educate me about.

You search the Scriptures because you think they give you eternal life. But the Scriptures point to me! Yet you refuse to come to me to receive this life. (John 5:39-40)

I have failed you because I have not been successful in my attempt to educate you about your need to move on from the realm of the flesh's Old Covenant 10 Commandments, and to convince you move into the realm of the Spirit's New Covenant of the Spirit. I'm sorry that I've failed you.

 

[Dylan569]

I was previously educated. I understood what you were trying to educate me about.

You search the Scriptures because you think they give you eternal life. But the Scriptures point to me! Yet you refuse to come to me to receive this life. (John 5:39-40)

I have failed you because I have not been successful in my attempt to educate you about your need to move on from the realm of the flesh's Old Covenant 10 Commandments, and to convince you move into the realm of the Spirit's New Covenant of the Spirit. I'm sorry that I've failed you.

For me, abolishing the Ten Commandments does not make one an antinomian, and I have come to the following approach to the matter.
"This is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put my laws in their minds and write them on their hearts, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. And they shall not teach one another or say to each other, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest. For I will be merciful toward their iniquities, and I will remember their sins no more.” In speaking of a new covenant, he has made the first one obsolete, and what is obsolete and growing old will soon disappear." (Heb 8:10-13 NRSVue)

"He was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he neither ate bread nor drank water. And he wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant, the ten commandments." (Exo 34:28 NRSVue) *This makes it clear that Christ making the Old Covenant obsolete, this verse shows that includes the Ten Commandments.

These New Covenant verses I've used in order to defend the position that the tradition of dividing the Law into Moral, Civil and Ceremonial can be misleading. I've encountered that on the following:

"For he is our peace; in his flesh he has made both into one and has broken down the dividing wall, that is, the hostility between us, abolishing the law with its commandments and ordinances, that he might create in himself one new humanity in place of the two, thus making peace, and might reconcile both to God in one body through the cross, thus putting to death that hostility through it." Eph 2:14-16 NRSVue

Men of God from past and present who I admire, study and hold dear, say the law abolished was only the civil and ceremonial. I believe the scriptures are quite clear that Christ fulfilled, completed and brought to an end the entire Old Covenant law.

When the Particular Baptists put forth their beliefs in the 1644/1646 First London Confession, they were criticized strongly about the law, and Benjamin Cox wrote an Appendix to the 11646 Confession in which he addressed that criticism -

X. Though we be not now sent to the law as it was in the hand of Moses, to be commanded thereby, yet Christ in His Gospel teacheth and commandeth us to walk in the same way of righteousness and holiness that God by Moses did command the lsraelites to walk in, all the commandments of the Second Table being still delivered unto us by Christ, and all the commandments of the First Table also (as touching the life and spirit of them) in this epitome or brief sum, "Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, etc.," Matt.22:37,38,39,40; Rom.13:8,9,10.

 

[th1bill]

I was previously educated. I understood what you were trying to educate me about.

You search the Scriptures because you think they give you eternal life. But the Scriptures point to me! Yet you refuse to come to me to receive this life. (John 5:39-40)

I have failed you because I have not been successful in my attempt to educate you about your need to move on from the realm of the flesh's Old Covenant 10 Commandments, and to convince you move into the realm of the Spirit's New Covenant of the Spirit. I'm sorry that I've failed you.

Ok, a final post but I refuse to debate the truth. I received the Indwelling of Ruah on 1/1/'90 and the Spirit never contradicts itself.

 

[bowwow]

Ok, a final post but I refuse to debate the truth. I received the Indwelling of Ruah on 1/1/'90 and the Spirit never contradicts itself.

Wow! Talk about a serious case of spiritual arrogance. Thank God I've thrown Christianity in the dump. I want nothing to do with your type - or in any way be associated with Christians. They all (deleted) big-time.

 

[Still Learning]

Wow! Talk about a serious case of spiritual arrogance. Thank God I've thrown Christianity in the dump. I want nothing to do with your type - or in any way be associated with Christians. They all (deleted) big-time.

We mostly do (deleted). That's why we need to have Jesus save us. That's why we choose to be Christians. Only the arrogant like yourself think you're better than someone else. FYI, you're not. You need Jesus, too.

 

[Still Learning]

For me, abolishing the Ten Commandments does not make one an antinomian, and I have come to the following approach to the matter.
"This is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put my laws in their minds and write them on their hearts, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. And they shall not teach one another or say to each other, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest. For I will be merciful toward their iniquities, and I will remember their sins no more.” In speaking of a new covenant, he has made the first one obsolete, and what is obsolete and growing old will soon disappear." (Heb 8:10-13 NRSVue)

"He was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he neither ate bread nor drank water. And he wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant, the ten commandments." (Exo 34:28 NRSVue) *This makes it clear that Christ making the Old Covenant obsolete, this verse shows that includes the Ten Commandments.

These New Covenant verses I've used in order to defend the position that the tradition of dividing the Law into Moral, Civil and Ceremonial can be misleading. I've encountered that on the following:

"For he is our peace; in his flesh he has made both into one and has broken down the dividing wall, that is, the hostility between us, abolishing the law with its commandments and ordinances, that he might create in himself one new humanity in place of the two, thus making peace, and might reconcile both to God in one body through the cross, thus putting to death that hostility through it." Eph 2:14-16 NRSVue

Men of God from past and present who I admire, study and hold dear, say the law abolished was only the civil and ceremonial. I believe the scriptures are quite clear that Christ fulfilled, completed and brought to an end the entire Old Covenant law.

When the Particular Baptists put forth their beliefs in the 1644/1646 First London Confession, they were criticized strongly about the law, and Benjamin Cox wrote an Appendix to the 11646 Confession in which he addressed that criticism -

X. Though we be not now sent to the law as it was in the hand of Moses, to be commanded thereby, yet Christ in His Gospel teacheth and commandeth us to walk in the same way of righteousness and holiness that God by Moses did command the lsraelites to walk in, all the commandments of the Second Table being still delivered unto us by Christ, and all the commandments of the First Table also (as touching the life and spirit of them) in this epitome or brief sum, "Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, etc.," Matt.22:37,38,39,40; Rom.13:8,9,10.

All I know is that in order to be made right with God we must live in the realm of the Spirit, and we need to die to Old Covenant realm of the flesh so that we can be born again of the Spirit. And I've come to see that Christ's New Covenant of the Spirit is the realm of the Spirit, and that the Old Covenant of the 10 Commandments/Law is where too many people who are living in the flesh seek to be made right with God by taking the wide road. Only one of those realms brings a right standing with God. The other one doesn't make us right with God, but instead brings death and condemnation. Therefore, I died with Christ and got born again of God into His Ne Covenant, so now there is now no condemnation for me, but rather I have eternal life with Christ's/God's righteousness gifted to me. The Old is gone. The New has come.

Whoever is a believer in Christ is a new creation. The old way of living has disappeared. A new way of living has come into existence. God has done all this. He has restored our relationship with him through Christ, and has given us this ministry of restoring relationships. (2 Corinthians 5:17-18)​

 

[Still Learning]

The last 27 books are all about attempting to live Holy.

I can tell you how to live holy in a lot less than 27 books.

Die to the Old Covenant 10 Commandments/Law so that your flesh is crucified with Christ, in order that through faith you can be born again of God and His Holy Spirit into the New Covenant of the Spirit.

In the New Covenant, you can't sin. That sounds like the way to be made holy if you ask me.

Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God. (1 John 3:9)​

With one sacrifice Christ made his people perfect forever. They are the ones who are being made holy. (Hebrews 10:14)​

 

[Marston]

Did Jesus's sacrifice save all from forever death?

 

[Still Learning]

Did Jesus's sacrifice save all from forever death?

If He did, I don't see the point of the Scriptures telling us to preach the gospel and putting the requirement that we believe it if we want to be saved from our sins and the penalty for them.

They asked, “What must we do in order to accomplish what God requires?” Jesus replied, “This is what God requires, that you believe in him whom God sent.” (John 6:28-29)

I would think people are required to do what's required, but I'm weird like that.

 

[th1bill]

Wow! Talk about a serious case of spiritual arrogance. Thank God I've thrown Christianity in the dump. I want nothing to do with your type - or in any way be associated with Christians. They all (deleted) big-time.

There will always be those who malign the telling of the truth and except you seek it, you have refused the call. I pray you take the Spirit.

 

[th1bill]

I can tell you how to live holy in a lot less than 27 books.

Die to the Old Covenant 10 Commandments/Law so that your flesh is crucified with Christ, in order that through faith you can be born again of God and His Holy Spirit into the New Covenant of the Spirit.

In the New Covenant, you can't sin. That sounds like the way to be made holy if you ask me.

Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God. (1 John 3:9)​

With one sacrifice Christ made his people perfect forever. They are the ones who are being made holy. (Hebrews 10:14)​

Your screen name is misleading. You have taken my words and twisted them into a lie.

 

[Still Learning]

Your screen name is misleading. You have taken my words and twisted them into a lie.

I did no such thing. Why do you bear false witness?

 

[Marston]

If He did, I don't see the point of the Scriptures telling us to preach the gospel and putting the requirement that we believe it if we want to be saved from our sins and the penalty for them.

They asked, “What must we do in order to accomplish what God requires?” Jesus replied, “This is what God requires, that you believe in him whom God sent.” (John 6:28-29)

I would think people are required to do what's required, but I'm weird like that.

My understanding is that Jesus's sacrifice saved ALL from forever death. Furthermore, my understanding is that faith in and a willingness to follow Jesus saves people from a trip to the Lake of Fire. However, some will be sent to THE LOF as the scriptures warn. Anyway, that is my understanding.

 

[Dylan569]

My understanding is that Jesus's sacrifice saved ALL from forever death. Furthermore, my understanding is that faith in and a willingness to follow Jesus saves people from a trip to the Lake of Fire. However, some will be sent to THE LOF as the scriptures warn. Anyway, that is my understanding.

"And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;" (Rev 5:9 KJV)

"And now they sing a new song. "It is fitting," they say, "that Thou shouldst be the One to take the book And break its seals; Because Thou hast been offered in sacrifice, And hast purchased for God with Thine own blood Some out of every tribe and language and people and nation," (Rev 5:9 Weymouth)

"They sing a new song: “You are worthy to take the scroll and to break its seals, for you were slaughtered and by your blood you ransomed for God saints from every tribe and language and people and nation;" (Rev 5:9 NRSVue)

He came to die for, and resurrect for his people, none others. If Christ died for all, man saved himself by believing, for that would be the only difference between him and the lost, those not believing.

 

[Still Learning]

My understanding is that Jesus's sacrifice saved ALL from forever death. Furthermore, my understanding is that faith in and a willingness to follow Jesus saves people from a trip to the Lake of Fire. However, some will be sent to THE LOF as the scriptures warn. Anyway, that is my understanding.

If, as you understand it, Jesus saved everyone from forever death, how do you rationalize that those who get cast into the Lake of Fire are saved from forever death when they are experiencing the 2nd death, not forever life.