It is my understanding that some are NOT saved from the second death, but ARE saved from FOREVER death. In other words, they too will enter God's Kingdom.
From what exactly did Jesus's sacrifice "save" us?
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It is my understanding that some are NOT saved from the second death, but ARE saved from FOREVER death. In other words, they too will enter God's Kingdom.
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I really haven't spent any time studying Hell and condemnation because I know I won't be going to Hell and that I won't be suffering condemnation because I'm in Christ. Therefore, I've spent almost all of my time studying the things that pertain to getting saved. Because I am pretty much unlearned in this area of the subject of Hell, please, I need you to explain how that those who are in Hell, who are condemned to the fires that will never be quenched and where the worm never ceases, how that when Hell gets cast into the Lake of Fire, that somehow the worm ceases and the fires get quenched? I would love to know that those who miss out on eternal life will be annihilated, instead of suffering forever, but when punishments are described as never ending, I don't understand how God would put such things in the Scriptures if they will be ending. So, please, if you would, explain this for me, because I have many unsaved friends and family members who simply don't believe in God, yet are wonderful people that I don't want to see suffer for the rest of eternity. Thanks.
th1bill
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Not true but true, ti some extent. Read the scriptures like any book, the way it is intended, and forget the chapters and verses that men broke the Letters from God have not in the original languages and we learn that Yashua, you call Him Jesus, died as the Savour of all mankind and gives it to us as a free gift.
A free gift, consider for a moment, understanding that Yashua taught much more than on Heaven, but consider, until a gift is unwraped in your hand, it is useless. You must take the gift before it is useful.
The greatest portion of mankind will roast eternally in the Lake of Fire because they do not accept the free gift.
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No brother. It is God's will that ALL will eventually follow Jesus into his kingdom.
Here are some verses.
1 John 4:14 14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world.
1 Timothy 4:10 For to this end we toil and strive, because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all people, especially of those who believe.
Lamentations 3:31 For the Lord will not cast off forever
Romans 5:18 Therefore, as one trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all men.
1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive.
Romans 11:32 For God has consigned all to disobedience, that he may have mercy on all.
John 12:32 And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw ALL people to myself.”
Revelation 21:5 And he who was seated on the throne said, “Behold, I am making all things new.” Also he said, “Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true.”
2 Corinthians 5:19 that is, in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation.
John 6:51
I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever. And the bread that I will give for the life of the world is my flesh.”
2 Corinthians 5:14-15 For the love of Christ controls us, because we have concluded this: that one has died for all, therefore all have died; 15 and he died for all, that those who live might no longer live for themselves but for him who for their sake died and was raised.
Colossians 1:20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven, making peace by the blood of his cross.
John 3:17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Luke 3:6 and all flesh shall see the salvation of God
Philippians 2:10-11 so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
Romans 10:9 because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
2 Samuel 14:14 We must all die; we are like water spilled on the ground, which cannot be gathered up again. But God will not take away life, and he devises means so that the banished one will not remain an outcast.
Ephesians 1:10 As a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in Him, things in heaven and things on earth.
John 1:29 The next day he saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, “Behold, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!"
1 Corinthians 15:22-28
22 For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, then at his coming those who belong to Christ. 24 Then comes the end, when he delivers the kingdom to God the Father after destroying every rule and every authority and power. 25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death. 27 For “God[c] has put all things in subjection under his feet.” But when it says, “all things are put in subjection,” it is plain that he is excepted who put all things in subjection under him. 28 When all things are subjected to him, then the Son himself will also be subjected to him who put all things in subjection under him, that God may be all in all.
th1bill
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It is the will of Yehovah but He does not deal with unforgiven sin anywhere but in this time/space continuum. You are using single verses to create Errant Theology falsely so that your sin does not slap you in the face. There are no verses in the original documents. These ¿books? of scripture are actually letters from our Creator God and must be read as such to understand them.
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I appreciate the time and effort you put into this and I'm going to really think and pray on this.
I'm still not convinced. It takes me awhile sometimes to get some things. You're claiming Christianity isn't exclusive, and I've always viewed it as very exclusive. Jesus said it's the Narrow Path which few take, so I've always believed Him to say that most won't look to Jesus and will be condemned. And so, again, I've always thought of Christianity as exclusive. Which is why I'm not convinced. Christianity is invitational, though, so I'm suspicious that you might be misinterpreting the Scriptures which you've listed as universal when they're in reality, invitational.
Therefore I'm going to need to look into your list of Scriptures closely and to compare them with other Scriptures to see if what you say is true or not. I'm an Acts 17:11 kind of Christian. I always check the Scriptures to see if what someone teaches is true or not. And I check a lot more Scriptures than just the ones cited for me. Many teachers deliberately leave out Scriptures which they're aware of which contradict their beliefs. That kind of teacher is straight from Satan. Thankfully, I know it's wise to search those contradictory Scriptures out if I'm going to get to the truth. In fact, I know some which contradict your view right off the top of my head, but I'm still going to consider that I might have missed something you have presented that just might sway me to change my view. I think that's also wise even if it's not likely.
I'm going to do serious contemplation on this, though, because Jesus said that those who seek will find, and I have always set my heart on seeking the truth. I've got Jesus' word that I'll be immersed in the truth if I seek it, and I believe Him. But I also know that for those who seek a belief to fit their sensibilities, will find that as well, even though it might not be the truth. And since I desire to see that my unsaved loved ones and friends aren't going to suffer forever, I need to confirm your claim with the Scriptures before I determine it's validity. Because your claim doesn't require that we believe in Jesus, and Jesus says that belief in Him is the only thing God requires of us to enter into His Kingdom of Heaven. And a requirement is a requirement that must be met, and apparently, according to Jesus, only a few will meet the requirement needed. Meaning not all will.
They asked, “What must we do in order to accomplish what GOD REQUIRES?” Jesus replied, “THIS is what God requires, that you BELIEVE in him whom God sent.” (John 6:28-29)
- He who puts his trust in the Son has life that lasts forever. He who does not put his trust in the Son WILL NOT HAVE LIFE, but the anger of God is on him. (John 3:36)
Again, Scripture makes it clear that faith/trust/belief in Jesus is required. And Scripture says most will fail to meet the requirement. And, honestly, I don't see how you're going to overcome those passages. They're extremely restrictive and authoritative. But i'll be diligent and check the Scriptures to see if you can.
Not at all. God told us. The first two verses say that God wants ALL to be saved. The following three verses say that God gets what God wants.
1 Timothy 2:3-4
This is good, and it is pleasing in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.
2 Peter 3:9 esv
The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.
Isaiah 46:10
declaring the end from the beginning and from ancient times things not yet done, saying, ‘My counsel shall stand, and I will accomplish all my purpose.
Isaiah 55:11
so shall my word be that goes out from my mouth; it shall not return to me empty, but it shall accomplish that which I purpose, and shall succeed in the thing for which I sent it.
Ephesians 1:11
In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will.
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The difference between God wanting, desiring, having, wishes etc., that "all" be saved is that God is not compelled to do so. It seems that you are stating that He is compelled to do so, and I'm not too sure about that. Also, you must consider what happens when the addition of "come to the knowledge of the truth" (Which we would say is in the person of Jesus Gospel) is not fulfilled in the person or is rejected by a person since Jesus is the one mediator between man and God. Even in the court of man, the defendant can reject their attorney, and go it alone, even after being advised not to do so!
Presented for your consideration in the Love of Christ Jesus for you Marston.
YBIC
Nick
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The Scriptures saying God wants everyone to be saved is not the same thing as Scripture saying everyone will be saved, which is what you were saying. You're being disingenuous, now.
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th1bill
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Actually, you are right and, in an oblique fashion, so is he but, his application is not, in any fashion, of God. There is a rule in understanding the scriptures that cannot ever be violated when seeking truth; No scripture, passage of scripture, nor collection of scriptures can ever be properly understood without the light of all scripture shining upon it.
Then the other poster is both victim and purveyor of misuse of scriptures. In my old age, I am forgetting but as I recall the best and the very worst thing that ever happened to the Word took place in the 14th century. Men added chapters and verses to the letters Yehovah gave us for instruction on how to seek Him and live.
The numbers make it simple to find your place and, that is great but, they also make it easy to make lies of scripture by jerking these verses out of their context.
Thanks but the scriptures are clear that 1)God wants ALL to be saved and 2)God gets what God wants.
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Just be consistent with context and tread carefully when trying to determine what God wants and know that what God wants is not necessarily what you think it is or should be.
"For My thoughts [are] not your thoughts, Nor [are] your ways My ways," says the LORD. "For [as] the heavens are higher than the earth, So are My ways higher than your ways, And My thoughts than your thoughts. Isaiah 55:8-9 NKJV
With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
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Again, you're presuming things that God contradicts. Stop doing this.
Only those who have been made right with God receive life that lasts forever. Those who are not right with God will receive punishment forever.
so that we who have found refuge in him may find strong encouragement to hold fast to the hope set before us through two unchangeable things, since it is impossible for God to lie. (Hebrews 6:18)
These will go to the place where they will be punished forever. But those right with God will have life that lasts forever.” (Matthew 25:46)
Does this verse say that God wants all people to be saved?
1 Timothy 2:3-4
This is good, and it is pleasing in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.
Am I wrong to say that God wants all people to be saved?
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You are wrong when you teach that all people will be saved. Stop trying to obfuscate things. You're being disingenuous again. And that's not honesty, it is deception. And it's not of God. So stop it.
The Apostle Paul disagrees with you. Paul says that Jesus saves ALL people!
1 Timothy 4:10
For to this end we toil and strive,[a] because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all people, especially of those who believe.
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Nope. You are misinterpreting that where Paul is saying "all people" it is meaning that some from every ethnicity will be saved by Jesus rather than just the Jews. Paul was the apostle to the Gentiles and He was assuring his audience that even though they weren't Jews, they could now be saved thanks to Jesus. Just before the verse you've cited, Paul says:
Beyond all question, the mystery from which true godliness springs is great:
He appeared in the flesh,
was vindicated by the Spirit,
was seen by angels,
was preached among the nations,
was believed on in the world,
was taken up in glory. (1 Timothy 3:16)
And Jesus is crystal clear that there will be some people who will suffer punishment forever. You disagree with Jesus and His Scriptures.
"These will go to the place where THEY WILL BE PUNISHED FOREVER. But those right with God will have life that lasts forever.” (Matthew 25:46)
So stop lying.
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