From what exactly did Jesus's sacrifice "save" us?

[th1bill]

Does this verse say that God wants all people to be saved?

1 Timothy 2:3-4
This is good, and it is pleasing in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

You are using verses that do not exist in Yehovah's Version of His Holy Scriptures, thus making them Satan's lie. I'll play along and not burden your poor soul by asking you to read the entire letter, though you need to for fuller revelation. Please, read:

Prayer and Submission to Authority​

2 First of all, then, I urge you to offer to God petitions, prayers, intercessions, and expressions of thanks for all people, 2 for kings, and for everyone who has authority, so that we might lead a quiet and peaceful life with all godliness and dignity. 3 This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who wants all people to be saved and to come to know the truth fully. 5 There is one God. There is also one mediator between God and human beings—a human, the Messiah Jesus. 6 He gave himself as a ransom for everyone, the testimony at the proper time. 7 For this reason I was appointed to be an announcer, an apostle, and a faithful and true teacher of the gentiles. (I am telling you the truth. I am not lying.)

Instructions to Men and Women​

8 Therefore, I want the men everywhere to pray, lifting up holy hands without being angry or argumentative. 9 Women, for their part, should display their beauty by dressing modestly and decently in appropriate clothes, not with elaborate hairstyles or by wearing gold, pearls, or expensive clothes, 10 but through good actions. This is proper for women who claim to revere God.


11 Let a woman learn with a quiet spirit, and submissively. 12 Moreover, in the area of teaching, I am not allowing a woman to instigate conflict toward a man. Instead, she is to remain calm. 13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve, 14 and it was not Adam who was deceived. It was the woman who was deceived and became disobedient, 15 even though she will be saved through the birth of the Child, if they continue in faith, love, and holiness, along with good judgment

Do you see the therefore in verse 8? Like a Baby Christian might err, you are not asking, Ẅhat is the therefore there for?

 

[Christ4Ever]

Does this verse say that God wants all people to be saved?

1 Timothy 2:3-4
This is good, and it is pleasing in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Dear Marston,
It says all, but it depends on how you define "desires" and the use of "wants" in the context of "all".
Here are some different translations that have included other words and or with something other than "desires":

[1Ti 2:3-4 NLT] 3 This is good and pleases God our Savior, 4 who wants everyone to be saved and to understand the truth.

[1Ti 2:3-4 KJV] 3 For this [is] good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; 4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

[1Ti 2:3-4 YLT] 3 for this [is] right and acceptable before God our Saviour, 4 who doth will all men to be saved, and to come to the full knowledge of the truth;

[1Ti 2:3-4 DBY] 3 for this is good and acceptable before our Saviour God, 4 who desires that all men should be saved and come to [the] knowledge of [the] truth.

[Greek Interlinear: 1 Timothy 2:3-4] 3 This [is] good and acceptable before the Savior of us God 4 who all men desires to be saved and to [the] truth to come This[is] good and acceptable before the Savior of us God, who all men wishes to be saved and to a full of truth to come.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This is why I mentioned to you before about context as being important. As others have noted, until the addition of verse numbering system, and chapter breakdowns, you had to read it in context to the whole without separating this line of text from another.

I've met others whose focus is upon one word which for you is "all". However, without considering the rest of what is written, you do an injustice to what God has given us through the Apostles and the Holy Spirit to understand or at least attempt to understand His Word in its fullest sense.

I know you will go back to "but it says all" and "God wants all", but then I say to you; do a search in all of Scripture for where "all" is mentioned and exclude contextual words/phrases and see what you get. If you are honest in doing that, you will see what I mean about the importance of context to ones attempt to rendering understanding to what is written concerning the use of "all" to the exclusion of what surrounds this one word.

For your consideration in the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
\o/
<><

 

[Marston]

Nope. You are misinterpreting that where Paul is saying "all people" it is meaning that some from every ethnicity will be saved by Jesus rather than just the Jews. Paul was the apostle to the Gentiles and He was assuring his audience that even though they weren't Jews, they could now be saved thanks to Jesus. Just before the verse you've cited, Paul says:

Beyond all question, the mystery from which true godliness springs is great:​

​

He appeared in the flesh,​

was vindicated by the Spirit,​

was seen by angels,​

was preached among the nations,​

was believed on in the world,​

was taken up in glory. (1 Timothy 3:16)​

And Jesus is crystal clear that there will be some people who will suffer punishment forever. You disagree with Jesus and His Scriptures.

"These will go to the place where THEY WILL BE PUNISHED FOREVER. But those right with God will have life that lasts forever.” (Matthew 25:46)​

So stop lying.

Dear Marston,
It says all, but it depends on how you define "desires" and the use of "wants" in the context of "all".
Here are some different translations that have included other words and or with something other than "desires":

[1Ti 2:3-4 NLT] 3 This is good and pleases God our Savior, 4 who wants everyone to be saved and to understand the truth.

[1Ti 2:3-4 KJV] 3 For this [is] good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; 4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

[1Ti 2:3-4 YLT] 3 for this [is] right and acceptable before God our Saviour, 4 who doth will all men to be saved, and to come to the full knowledge of the truth;

[1Ti 2:3-4 DBY] 3 for this is good and acceptable before our Saviour God, 4 who desires that all men should be saved and come to [the] knowledge of [the] truth.

[Greek Interlinear: 1 Timothy 2:3-4] 3 This [is] good and acceptable before the Savior of us God 4 who all men desires to be saved and to [the] truth to come This[is] good and acceptable before the Savior of us God, who all men wishes to be saved and to a full of truth to come.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This is why I mentioned to you before about context as being important. As others have noted, until the addition of verse numbering system, and chapter breakdowns, you had to read it in context to the whole without separating this line of text from another.

I've met others whose focus is upon one word which for you is "all". However, without considering the rest of what is written, you do an injustice to what God has given us through the Apostles and the Holy Spirit to understand or at least attempt to understand His Word in its fullest sense.

I know you will go back to "but it says all" and "God wants all", but then I say to you; do a search in all of Scripture for where "all" is mentioned and exclude contextual words/phrases and see what you get. If you are honest in doing that, you will see what I mean about the importance of context to ones attempt to rendering understanding to what is written concerning the use of "all" to the exclusion of what surrounds this one word.

For your consideration in the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
\o/
<><

Thank you. Yes, context is everything.

I think God wants all to be in his future kingdom. Do you share that belief?

 

[th1bill]

Thank you. Yes, context is everything.

I think God wants all to be in his future kingdom. Do you share that belief?

Yehovah created every one of us, loves every one of us, but He allows every one of us to decide our eternal fate because He is not a bully.

 

[Still Learning]

Thank you. Yes, context is everything.

I think God wants all to be in his future kingdom. Do you share that belief?

"These will go to the place where THEY WILL BE PUNISHED FOREVER. But those right with God will have life that lasts forever.” (Matthew 25:46)​

Jesus is very clear that there will be some people who will suffer punishment forever. And if, like you claimed, God gets what God wants, and some people suffer punishment forever, then this answers your question. If it doesn't, then you're wrong about God getting what God wants.

The one who sent me is with me; he has not left me alone, for I always do what pleases him. (John 8:29)​

Why do you refuse to conform your beliefs to agree with what Jesus says?

 

[Christ4Ever]

Thank you. Yes, context is everything.

I think God wants all to be in his future kingdom. Do you share that belief?

Of course, He wants all to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth.

Sadly, all of humanity does not want what God wants.

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
\o/
<><

 

[Marston]

Of course, He wants all to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth.

Thank you.

 

[Still Learning]

God gets what God wants.

Ever consider that God wants to spend eternity with people who want to be with Him instead of being with a bunch of people who haven't chosen to be with Him? For me, a good marriage relationship would be having both the bride and the groom loving each other and desiring to be together. A bad marriage relationship would be one person forcing the other person to be with them even though the other person doesn't want to be in the marriage. We can all see what kind of heart you have, and God isn't like you.

A good man out of the good treasure of his heart brings forth good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart brings forth evil. For out of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaks. (Luke 6:45)​

 

[Still Learning]

It's obvious who is a liar.

1Jn 2:3 By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments.
1Jn 2:4 The one who says, "I have come to know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him;

We aren't saved by our own meritorious works of commandment keeping. We are saved by God's grace which we access through faith/trust/belief in Jesus and what He did to save us. When we believe, we get born again of God's Holy Spirit. The Spirit gets sealed in our hearts. And the only requirement God has placed on us to access this gift of God's grace is that we believe in Jesus and what He's done to save us.

God saved you by his grace when you believed. And you can’t take credit for this; it is a gift from God. Salvation is not a reward for the good things we have done, so none of us can boast about it. (Ephesians 2:8-9)​

But when the kindness and love of God our Savior appeared, he saved us, NOT because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit, (Titus 3:4-5)​

​

So, YES. It's obvious who is a liar. And the liar is YOU.​

​

AFTER we get saved, THEN we do our good works that we are commanded to do. This is what we were born again and made new to do. But, we are not keeping the Old Covenant commandments. And we aren't keeping any other commandments, either, because we want to be saved. We keep the commandments of the Spirit through the Spirit, not our flesh. And we do it out of love for Jesus, not because we want to be saved or because we fear punishment.

For we are God’s masterpiece. He has created us anew in Christ Jesus, so we can do the good things he planned for us long ago. (Ephesians 2:10)

So, my brothers and sisters, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, that you might belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God. (Romans 7:4)

Obviously, the law applies to those to whom it was given, for its purpose is to keep people from having excuses, and to show that the entire world is guilty before God. For NO ONE CAN EVER BE MADE RIGHT WITH GOD BY DOING WHAT THE LAW COMMANDS. The law simply shows us how sinful we are. But now God has shown us a way to be made right with him without keeping the requirements of the law, as was promised in the writings of Moses and the prophets long ago. We are made right with God by placing our faith in Jesus Christ. And this is true for everyone who believes, no matter who we are. For everyone has sinned; we all fall short of God’s glorious standard. Yet God, in his grace, freely makes us right in his sight. He did this through Christ Jesus when he freed us from the penalty for our sins. (Romans 3:19-24)

We have seen that the Father sent his Son to be the Savior of the world, and this is what we tell people now. Anyone who says, “I believe that Jesus is the Son of God,” is a person who lives in God, and God lives in that person. So we know the love that God has for us, and we trust that love. God is love. Everyone who lives in love lives in God, and God lives in them. If God’s love is made perfect in us, WE CAN BE WITHOUT FEAR ON THE DAY WHEN GOD JUDGES THE WORLD. We will be without fear, because in this world we are like Jesus. Where God’s love is, there is no fear, because God’s perfect love takes away fear. It is his punishment that makes a person fear. So his love is not made perfect in the one who has fear. (1 John 4:14-18)

The Scriptures are clear that we aren't saved by keeping commandments even though we keep them as the way we show God how much we love Him. And, we have died to the Law so that we can belong to Jesus. This means that those who believe we need to keep commandments, like you teach, don't belong to Jesus. Therefore, you had better repent of these false teachings you advocate for, and had better abandon the Old Covenant and its Laws so that you can belong to Jesus and be saved.

 

[Christ4Ever]

AFTER we get saved, THEN we do our good works that we are commanded to do. This is what we were born again and made new to do. But, we are not keeping the Old Covenant commandments. And we aren't keeping any other commandments, either, because we want to be saved. We keep the commandments of the Spirit through the Spirit, not our flesh. And we do it out of love for Jesus, not because we want to be saved or because we fear punishment.

Amen!

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
\o/
<><

 

[Still Learning]

Amen!

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
\o/
<><

You have sooooo many wolves in sheep's clothing roaming about looking for lambs to devour around here. Why are there so few Bighorn Ram's exposing them so that new convert baby sheep won't be misled by them?

 

[Christ4Ever]

You have sooooo many wolves in sheep's clothing roaming about looking for lambs to devour around here. Why are there so few Bighorn Ram's exposing them so that new convert baby sheep won't be misled by them?

Dear Brother,
Lack of knowledge is one.
There are not as many "Bighorn Ram's" available to do so anymore, and the ones left are not wanting to get involved in arguments that are fruitless.

Sadly, there are not many baby sheep coming here anymore, seeking growth in God's Word as well.

What we have instead not to be insulting, are "old goats", remembering the days of their youth, seeking who they can combat with. Which is never fruitful. Also, wolves as you have stated rightly.

I know this is not a satisfactory answer, but right now it is the only one I have to share with you. You are welcome to PM me at any time.
God bless.
With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
\o/
<><

 

[Still Learning]

Dear Brother,
Lack of knowledge is one.
There are not as many "Bighorn Ram's" available to do so anymore, and the ones left are not wanting to get involved in arguments that are fruitless.

Sadly, there are not many baby sheep coming here anymore, seeking growth in God's Word as well.

What we have instead not to be insulting, are "old goats", remembering the days of their youth, seeking who they can combat with. Which is never fruitful. Also, wolves as you have stated rightly.

I know this is not a satisfactory answer, but right now it is the only one I have to share with you. You are welcome to PM me at any time.
God bless.
With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
\o/
<><

I thought we were to put on the armor of God and to pick up the sword.

I truly believe this doctrine of "be nice to everyone" is the most unloving thing you could do to the false sheep who have the bad fruit of false doctrine. Rebuking them for their false teachings, and telling them the truth from the Scriptures and about how they're not saved so that they might be sound in the faith, is the loving thing to do. They need to teach the one true "good news" gospel message or else they'll be cursed of God.

This testimony is true. Therefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith, (Titus 1:13)​

And that is the exact way Jesus dealt with the false teachers.

But woe to you, experts in the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the kingdom of heaven right in front of people’s faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor do you permit those who are trying to enter to do so. Woe to you, experts in the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel the sea and the land to make one convert, and then when he is converted, you make him twice as much a son of hell as you are. (Matthew 23:13-15)​

​

And Paul as well.

I am amazed. You are so quickly deserting the one who chose you. He chose you to live in the grace that Christ has provided. You are turning to a different “good news.” What you are accepting is really not the good news at all. It seems that some people have gotten you all mixed up. They are trying to twist the good news about Christ. But suppose even we should preach a different “good news.” Suppose even an angel from heaven should preach it. Suppose it is different from the good news we gave you. Then LET ANYONE WHO DOES THAT BE CURSED BY GOD. I have already said it. Now I will say it again. Suppose someone preaches a “good news” that is different from what you accepted. That person should be cursed by God. (Galatians 1:6-9)​

​

Maybe it's the being nice instead of following the teaching of Jesus and Paul that has your cite so dead? Why would God bless a haven for wolves? We're supposed to fight against the gates of Hell? Those gates are stationary. They don't attack us. We are to attack them. But I guess I came to the wrong place. I'll be dusting off my sandals and moving on, now. Good bye. Feel free to delete my account.

​