So then according to your interpretation of what the Spiritual gift of speaking in tongues and the gift of interpretation, there are many unbelievers and possible some satanist who have these gifts also.
Holy Spirit
- Thread starter yegoryeliz
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So then according to your interpretation of what the Spiritual gift of speaking in tongues and the gift of interpretation, there are many unbelievers and possible some satanist who have these gifts also.
No lost man or satanist has a spiritual gift so the proper word might be do they have the ability to speak in unknown tongues? Yes, they do. A person in a demonic voodoo trance will speak in an unknown tongue. An avowed atheist shrink once visited a monk of some sort and he said that as he looked upon him some kind of light show or something like that appeared before him and then the shrink said that he (the shrink) spoke in tongues. Once a professor of ancient languages went to a church in NYC that he heard was experiencing the gift of tongues. One lad jumped up and said his piece and another jumped up to say it was a blessing from God or a blessing of God but the professor could not restrain himself and said that the interpreter was in error. What really went down was the first lad was using every possible curse word in ancient Sumerian. So yes, lost people and satanists can speak in unknown tongues and have automatic writing, trances etc.
I believe that the current "tongues" movement will be the grease used to put together the one world church because people no longer care about doctrine but rather experience. People with all sorts of varying, contrary doctrines can agree to their experience and get along when they would be at odds if the emphasis was on doctrine which is biblical emphasis.
Something has to be the catalyst or grease to make all the different groups hold hands, sing *** by ya and accept the false prophet and the Anti-Christ. Dumping doctrine for experience is the quickest way.
Even though the O man says he doesn't teach doctrine he really does since doctrine means teaching. It is just that he doesn't teach sound doctrine but he voices what is the general concensus among many groups. Doctrine separates so lets dump doctrine and unite. Actually truth is what we are to unite around and truth rejected will separate and that is why we are divided for so many have rejected the truth for the doctrines of men and we can be nothing but divided until Jesus comes and puts away all error.
I believe that the current "tongues" movement will be the grease used to put together the one world church because people no longer care about doctrine but rather experience. People with all sorts of varying, contrary doctrines can agree to their experience and get along when they would be at odds if the emphasis was on doctrine which is biblical emphasis.
Something has to be the catalyst or grease to make all the different groups hold hands, sing *** by ya and accept the false prophet and the Anti-Christ. Dumping doctrine for experience is the quickest way.
Even though the O man says he doesn't teach doctrine he really does since doctrine means teaching. It is just that he doesn't teach sound doctrine but he voices what is the general concensus among many groups. Doctrine separates so lets dump doctrine and unite. Actually truth is what we are to unite around and truth rejected will separate and that is why we are divided for so many have rejected the truth for the doctrines of men and we can be nothing but divided until Jesus comes and puts away all error.
So are you saying we should be led by the Bible over all else?
This will take several replies due to the length restrictions.
Use the Bible in context? Yes. Now does the Holy Spirit illuminate passages so that we can understand? Yes, most definitely or we risk coming up with the letter only and we know that can kill. Does He give new revelation? No, we have all we need and most of us do not fully understand or use what we have so why give more? If new revelation were given would it contradict the Word? Never!!
"If it is true it is not new and if it is new it is not true."
That statement is fairly accurate. In terms of prophecy we know that some things like Daniel's prophecy were not given for Daniel to understand but designed for those in the last days. Hence as things developed we will be able to see the meaning but the meaning is not changed or new. The Jews should have known that Jesus was the Messiah when He rolled into Jerusalem because He did it on the exact day prophesied. We have seen Israel become a nation and now know the time is shorter than ever but we will not know the exact day and those who get a prophecy about the exact day are false prophets.
Everything else is written down for us. We have all we need to live and serve Christ. From Malachi to Matthew there was no open sign for 400 years they only had the Word. Jesus said an adulterous and wicked generation would seek signs and they would not get anything but His resurrection. The Corinthians had all the sign gifts and yet were a terribly immature and sad church that questioned the authority of Paul though he won them to Christ. They abused the gifts and exalted the least of the gifts, tongues, much like the current "signs" people. Jews require a sign but the current "signs" movement started among Gentiles in California shortly after the age of apostasy started in the late 1800s. Had it started in a Messianic Jewish congregation and Jews were getting saved I would have given it some credence but the root is wrong so the fruit is as well. I think the sign gifts will be revived when the 70th week of Daniel starts and the 144,000 begin their ministry. Until then I have doubts that any of them will be used except in rare instances and certainly not for the raising of money and the promoting of personalities like a travelling show that we see currently.
God would not give His Spirit and His gifts to heretics and yet groups who hold to heretical doctrines claim to have the gift of tongues. Given a person or persons could be saved in spite of that group because they heard the Gospel somewhere else the Holy Spirit would lead them out of that group not keep them in it.
Use the Bible in context? Yes. Now does the Holy Spirit illuminate passages so that we can understand? Yes, most definitely or we risk coming up with the letter only and we know that can kill. Does He give new revelation? No, we have all we need and most of us do not fully understand or use what we have so why give more? If new revelation were given would it contradict the Word? Never!!
"If it is true it is not new and if it is new it is not true."
That statement is fairly accurate. In terms of prophecy we know that some things like Daniel's prophecy were not given for Daniel to understand but designed for those in the last days. Hence as things developed we will be able to see the meaning but the meaning is not changed or new. The Jews should have known that Jesus was the Messiah when He rolled into Jerusalem because He did it on the exact day prophesied. We have seen Israel become a nation and now know the time is shorter than ever but we will not know the exact day and those who get a prophecy about the exact day are false prophets.
Everything else is written down for us. We have all we need to live and serve Christ. From Malachi to Matthew there was no open sign for 400 years they only had the Word. Jesus said an adulterous and wicked generation would seek signs and they would not get anything but His resurrection. The Corinthians had all the sign gifts and yet were a terribly immature and sad church that questioned the authority of Paul though he won them to Christ. They abused the gifts and exalted the least of the gifts, tongues, much like the current "signs" people. Jews require a sign but the current "signs" movement started among Gentiles in California shortly after the age of apostasy started in the late 1800s. Had it started in a Messianic Jewish congregation and Jews were getting saved I would have given it some credence but the root is wrong so the fruit is as well. I think the sign gifts will be revived when the 70th week of Daniel starts and the 144,000 begin their ministry. Until then I have doubts that any of them will be used except in rare instances and certainly not for the raising of money and the promoting of personalities like a travelling show that we see currently.
God would not give His Spirit and His gifts to heretics and yet groups who hold to heretical doctrines claim to have the gift of tongues. Given a person or persons could be saved in spite of that group because they heard the Gospel somewhere else the Holy Spirit would lead them out of that group not keep them in it.
This will take several replies due to the length restrictions.
Use the Bible in context? Yes. Now does the Holy Spirit illuminate passages so that we can understand? Yes, most definitely or we risk coming up with the letter only and we know that can kill. Does He give new revelation? No, we have all we need and most of us do not fully understand or use what we have so why give more? If new revelation were given would it contradict the Word? Never!!
"If it is true it is not new and if it is new it is not true."
That statement is fairly accurate. In terms of prophecy we know that some things like Daniel's prophecy were not given for Daniel to understand but designed for those in the last days. Hence as things developed we will be able to see the meaning but the meaning is not changed or new. The Jews should have known that Jesus was the Messiah when He rolled into Jerusalem because He did it on the exact day prophesied. We have seen Israel become a nation and now know the time is shorter than ever but we will not know the exact day and those who get a prophecy about the exact day are false prophets.
Everything else is written down for us. We have all we need to live and serve Christ. From Malachi to Matthew there was no open sign for 400 years they only had the Word. Jesus said an adulterous and wicked generation would seek signs and they would not get anything but His resurrection. The Corinthians had all the sign gifts and yet were a terribly immature and sad church that questioned the authority of Paul though he won them to Christ. They abused the gifts and exalted the least of the gifts, tongues, much like the current "signs" people. Jews require a sign but the current "signs" movement started among Gentiles in California shortly after the age of apostasy started in the late 1800s. Had it started in a Messianic Jewish congregation and Jews were getting saved I would have given it some credence but the root is wrong so the fruit is as well. I think the sign gifts will be revived when the 70th week of Daniel starts and the 144,000 begin their ministry. Until then I have doubts that any of them will be used except in rare instances and certainly not for the raising of money and the promoting of personalities like a travelling show that we see currently.
God would not give His Spirit and His gifts to heretics and yet groups who hold to heretical doctrines claim to have the gift of tongues. Given a person or persons could be saved in spite of that group because they heard the Gospel somewhere else the Holy Spirit would lead them out of that group not keep them in it.
Use the Bible in context? Yes. Now does the Holy Spirit illuminate passages so that we can understand? Yes, most definitely or we risk coming up with the letter only and we know that can kill. Does He give new revelation? No, we have all we need and most of us do not fully understand or use what we have so why give more? If new revelation were given would it contradict the Word? Never!!
"If it is true it is not new and if it is new it is not true."
That statement is fairly accurate. In terms of prophecy we know that some things like Daniel's prophecy were not given for Daniel to understand but designed for those in the last days. Hence as things developed we will be able to see the meaning but the meaning is not changed or new. The Jews should have known that Jesus was the Messiah when He rolled into Jerusalem because He did it on the exact day prophesied. We have seen Israel become a nation and now know the time is shorter than ever but we will not know the exact day and those who get a prophecy about the exact day are false prophets.
Everything else is written down for us. We have all we need to live and serve Christ. From Malachi to Matthew there was no open sign for 400 years they only had the Word. Jesus said an adulterous and wicked generation would seek signs and they would not get anything but His resurrection. The Corinthians had all the sign gifts and yet were a terribly immature and sad church that questioned the authority of Paul though he won them to Christ. They abused the gifts and exalted the least of the gifts, tongues, much like the current "signs" people. Jews require a sign but the current "signs" movement started among Gentiles in California shortly after the age of apostasy started in the late 1800s. Had it started in a Messianic Jewish congregation and Jews were getting saved I would have given it some credence but the root is wrong so the fruit is as well. I think the sign gifts will be revived when the 70th week of Daniel starts and the 144,000 begin their ministry. Until then I have doubts that any of them will be used except in rare instances and certainly not for the raising of money and the promoting of personalities like a travelling show that we see currently.
God would not give His Spirit and His gifts to heretics and yet groups who hold to heretical doctrines claim to have the gift of tongues. Given a person or persons could be saved in spite of that group because they heard the Gospel somewhere else the Holy Spirit would lead them out of that group not keep them in it.
2 Thess 2:7-10
7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. KJV
Signs are not a sign that the person is saved. The Anti-Christ will have some really great ones. There will be people in Hell that "preached Christ" and did miracles according to Matthew 7:21-23. From what I can see from Scripture and from the fruits that I see of those in the current movement I can only conclude that this is a false process set up to get people to accept the Anti-Christ and the False Prophet when they arrive on the scene.
In my early years as a Christian I did seek some of these things. I desired the gift of healing more than tongues. Again, based upon the Word I came to believe that I was asking for something not available for today. Every time I pass a crippled child or see a sick child in a hospital I long for the ability to raise them up to health in Jesus’ name and I wonder where all the folks are that believe in it for I would be running through Children’s Hospital not be on TV. I would have loved to raise my father-in-law to health or to raise him from the dead as I was there when he died. I wouldn’t be in some far off country away from the media to claim I did such a thing. I would be in an ICU and when the doctors walked away after “calling it.” I would quietly walk in and tell him/her to rise in the name of Christ. As I walk by a Hispanic or Arabic man I would love to turn to him in the truth of Acts 2 and give him the Gospel in his home dialect as if I had lived in his home town. I can do none of these things but the ones who claim they can don’t do any of those things but they do exploit the Holy Spirit into a marketing gimmick and almost have Him perform like a circus act. God does heal and the prayer of a righteous man availeth much but the gift itself is no longer active.
7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. KJV
Signs are not a sign that the person is saved. The Anti-Christ will have some really great ones. There will be people in Hell that "preached Christ" and did miracles according to Matthew 7:21-23. From what I can see from Scripture and from the fruits that I see of those in the current movement I can only conclude that this is a false process set up to get people to accept the Anti-Christ and the False Prophet when they arrive on the scene.
In my early years as a Christian I did seek some of these things. I desired the gift of healing more than tongues. Again, based upon the Word I came to believe that I was asking for something not available for today. Every time I pass a crippled child or see a sick child in a hospital I long for the ability to raise them up to health in Jesus’ name and I wonder where all the folks are that believe in it for I would be running through Children’s Hospital not be on TV. I would have loved to raise my father-in-law to health or to raise him from the dead as I was there when he died. I wouldn’t be in some far off country away from the media to claim I did such a thing. I would be in an ICU and when the doctors walked away after “calling it.” I would quietly walk in and tell him/her to rise in the name of Christ. As I walk by a Hispanic or Arabic man I would love to turn to him in the truth of Acts 2 and give him the Gospel in his home dialect as if I had lived in his home town. I can do none of these things but the ones who claim they can don’t do any of those things but they do exploit the Holy Spirit into a marketing gimmick and almost have Him perform like a circus act. God does heal and the prayer of a righteous man availeth much but the gift itself is no longer active.
I have seen weird stuff like supposedly being in the Spirit but hissing like a snake and the last I read the Spirit appeared as a Dove so cooing like one might have been appropriate but hissing like the picture of the devil makes no sense. The out of control contortions speak more of those under the influence of Voodoo demons than the Holy Spirit considering the word says that “the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets” indicating control and the decency and order that the Word also calls for in the Church. (I Cor 14:31, 32; 40) The Scripture says that if someone speaks in tongues let another interpret but now I hear the latest thing is self-interpretation. (1 Cor 14:26-28) That commandment is in alignment with what even Jesus said about Himself.
John 8:17-18
17 It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true.
18 I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me. KJV
John 5:31-33
31 If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true.
32 There is another that beareth witness of me; and I know that the witness which he witnesseth of me is true.
33 Ye sent unto John, and he bare witness unto the truth. KJV
Though He is the Truth He pointed to the Father, the Scriptures, John and His own fruits as testimony. If I self interpret my tongues who can say I am speaking of God or myself? If another interprets and the interpretation is in alignment with Scripture then you have two witnesses to what I said. Self-interpretation is not allowed thus that is a false doctrine and not of the Spirit. There has to be a standard to make judgment of what we see and hear and that standard is the Word of God. It is how we prevent the errors of Ephesians 4:14.
So yes, we use the Word of God in context as our standard to determine what we do as a Church and to “try the spirits” and mark those who “cause division” either by their acts or doctrine.
John 8:17-18
17 It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true.
18 I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me. KJV
John 5:31-33
31 If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true.
32 There is another that beareth witness of me; and I know that the witness which he witnesseth of me is true.
33 Ye sent unto John, and he bare witness unto the truth. KJV
Though He is the Truth He pointed to the Father, the Scriptures, John and His own fruits as testimony. If I self interpret my tongues who can say I am speaking of God or myself? If another interprets and the interpretation is in alignment with Scripture then you have two witnesses to what I said. Self-interpretation is not allowed thus that is a false doctrine and not of the Spirit. There has to be a standard to make judgment of what we see and hear and that standard is the Word of God. It is how we prevent the errors of Ephesians 4:14.
So yes, we use the Word of God in context as our standard to determine what we do as a Church and to “try the spirits” and mark those who “cause division” either by their acts or doctrine.
Within the membership I am sure there are several views. We teach that the doctrine and practice are wrong therefore it would be obvious that we believe those who practice it are wrong. Now, since several groups teach various things about that gift the view of those Christians would depend on the teaching of the group as a whole as well as on that particular subject.
As with any other doctrine and those who claim to be Christians we have to understand that there are Christians at various levels of maturity, various levels of knowledge, some well meaning but deceived as well as tares in the field. Telling them apart takes great discernment and sometimes cannot be done as the parable of the tares and the wheat indicates that if you are not careful you will pull up the wheat with the tares.
Thus I normally try to deal with the issue on an one-on-one basis because even though they are in a particluar group they may not even know all that group teaches or actually believe and practice something different than the group.
You cannot be a member of the Church where I am Associate Pastor if you speak in tongues or do any of the other sign gifts. You may attend but if you break out in tongues when I am in the pulpit I will address the issue and reprove you espcecially if you self-interpret or do it with knowledge that is not what we do and thus bring disorder to the service contrary to Scripture.
I do not believe that all who do so are lost as some do. Some are but then many non-tongue speakers in Church are lost as well. As I think I mentioned before a friend of mine had a grandmother who would get into her rocking chair and basically chant sha la lilly over and over and that was her concept of tongues. That is vain repetition in whatever syllables you use. If you were taught that you must speak in tongues to be saved that is not biblical and I would question your salvation because you are trusting in your experience more than His work. Anyway, that is why I deal with things one-on-one for there are many variables.
As with any other doctrine and those who claim to be Christians we have to understand that there are Christians at various levels of maturity, various levels of knowledge, some well meaning but deceived as well as tares in the field. Telling them apart takes great discernment and sometimes cannot be done as the parable of the tares and the wheat indicates that if you are not careful you will pull up the wheat with the tares.
Thus I normally try to deal with the issue on an one-on-one basis because even though they are in a particluar group they may not even know all that group teaches or actually believe and practice something different than the group.
You cannot be a member of the Church where I am Associate Pastor if you speak in tongues or do any of the other sign gifts. You may attend but if you break out in tongues when I am in the pulpit I will address the issue and reprove you espcecially if you self-interpret or do it with knowledge that is not what we do and thus bring disorder to the service contrary to Scripture.
I do not believe that all who do so are lost as some do. Some are but then many non-tongue speakers in Church are lost as well. As I think I mentioned before a friend of mine had a grandmother who would get into her rocking chair and basically chant sha la lilly over and over and that was her concept of tongues. That is vain repetition in whatever syllables you use. If you were taught that you must speak in tongues to be saved that is not biblical and I would question your salvation because you are trusting in your experience more than His work. Anyway, that is why I deal with things one-on-one for there are many variables.
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The irony of this discussion is that though I am not a Charismatic I do get higher ratings on my sermons from Charismatics than I do from IFBs. Someone even posted one of my sermons on the India Pentecostal web site because it dealt with idols and relics. I even had one lady convinced that one day I would pastor a Charismatic Church. I don't see it happening. I am somewhat Bapticostal. I am Baptist enough to make Pentecostals pray for me and Pentecostal enough to have Baptists pray for me so I get twice as much prayer as some pastors.
You have to go by doctrine. Those who deny the Trinity are not in the Body be they Pentecostal or not and there are some in both groups. Those who teach that Jesus was the illegitimate son of a German soldier are not in the Body. In fact, if you have a "picture' of Jesus with blonde hair or blue eyes burn it as it plays to that position. Those who teach anything other than salvation by Christ and Him alone are not in the Body. Those who teach that He did not actually die on the Cross or literally arose are not in the Body. Those who make Mary a Co-Redemptrix are not in the Body. Those who teach that Jesus is the brother of Satan are not in the Body. Those who deny the Bible is the inerrent Word of God are not in the Body. That should be good for starters.
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Right on brother Mav, I agree on this. Its a logical conclusion that not every doctrine out there that mentions Jesus is instantly from GOD. We're not talking about simple flaws in teachings, but false teachings in general.
You can follow the Truth or you can choose your own doctrine that makes you feel comfortable, now.
You can follow the Truth or you can choose your own doctrine that makes you feel comfortable, now.
Word of Life
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1Jo 4:15 Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.
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I seriously hope we're not going to get into a ridiculous debate about the Trinity now. The trinity/triune are the Father, Son, Holy Spirit.
Please read this:
http://www.talkjesus.com/scriptural-answers/11922-trinity.html?highlight=trinity
Let's stay on topic in the meantime, GOD bless
Please read this:
http://www.talkjesus.com/scriptural-answers/11922-trinity.html?highlight=trinity
Let's stay on topic in the meantime, GOD bless
I must be getting old rizen1 because I thought I was replying to your question. Yes, the Trinity debate needs to be somewhere else I reckon but if a person denies the Trinity and yet supposedly has the gifts of the Spirit they do not have them for they are not properly confessing the Son.
To confess the Son one has to believe who and what the Son is. This is one way to determine one of the nots. The word confess is homologeo or same word. Just like my sins I must say the same word about them that He says. Thus we must say the same thing the Word says about Christ as well. Paul warned against people preaching another Christ.
Many use the name of Christ, unfortunately often as a cuss word, but many do not belong to Him.
Matt 24:24
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. KJV
Signs and wonders were once a method of determining true prophets but now it is a way to weed out false ones. We have had many in my lifetime.
Jeanne Dixon was hailed as a prophetess but she said a large serpent stared into her eyes that had the wisdom of the ages. We can leave her out for sure.
We already dealt with Matthew 7:21 and the verses following.
A prophet had to be 100% accurate and yet I have read those who have missed more than once and one even corrected himseff after he SAID the Holy Spirit told him a "truth" and when he was challenged on it he reneged saying he made an error. The Spirit makes no mistake and in the OT he would have been stoned as a false prophet but he is still on TV today and revered. In fact, he had claimed that there was a trinty of trinities or 9. We can leave him out as well.
How many of God's prophets, especially those who had signs lived in wealth? None, not even Jesus and the Apostles. Most lived from hand to mouth in loaned rooms. Today they live in luxury. Most of their "miracles" occur in big crowds where the money will soon flow afterwards. Not so, the OT and NT prophets.
Again, signs are for Jews so if no Jews, especially lost ones, are present Paul said it was better to prophesy/preach with undertstanding so that all may be edified.
If Tongues are exalted when they are the least of gifts and not everyone even back then had that gift then at best they are abusing the gift and at worse it is a satanic deception.
The Scripture says that in the Last Days there would be great apostasy not a New Apostolic Reformation or revival of the gifts but rather a loss of love and lying wonders to intro the Anti-Christ. None of what is going on today is based in what Scripture prophesied. There is no holy laughter or out of control behavior at all from Genesis to Revelation.
We are living in a wicked and adulterous generation and when this "revival" of the gifts happened we were also in one because God had been take out of His Book by the "scholars", out of his Creation by Darwin, out of His Counselor status by Freud and even out of economics by Marx. Evil and adulterous generations get what sign? None but the resurrection of Christ and that happened.
Now did this all start out "innocently" by folks wanting to combat the secularists? Maybe, there had been several pietist movements reacting to dead orthodoxy in the past but ended up in wildfire with people "treeing the devil" and the like. Was it taken over by the devil or did he see it as his catalyst for bringing about his version? Maybe both but in the end it was God who forsaw it, allowed it and told us about it so that the very elect would not be deceived.
Can you know? Yes, if you really want to know. Paul said many times he did not want the Saints to be ignorant but rather to come into epignosis or a full knowledge of the truth as mature sons of God.
To confess the Son one has to believe who and what the Son is. This is one way to determine one of the nots. The word confess is homologeo or same word. Just like my sins I must say the same word about them that He says. Thus we must say the same thing the Word says about Christ as well. Paul warned against people preaching another Christ.
Many use the name of Christ, unfortunately often as a cuss word, but many do not belong to Him.
Matt 24:24
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. KJV
Signs and wonders were once a method of determining true prophets but now it is a way to weed out false ones. We have had many in my lifetime.
Jeanne Dixon was hailed as a prophetess but she said a large serpent stared into her eyes that had the wisdom of the ages. We can leave her out for sure.
We already dealt with Matthew 7:21 and the verses following.
A prophet had to be 100% accurate and yet I have read those who have missed more than once and one even corrected himseff after he SAID the Holy Spirit told him a "truth" and when he was challenged on it he reneged saying he made an error. The Spirit makes no mistake and in the OT he would have been stoned as a false prophet but he is still on TV today and revered. In fact, he had claimed that there was a trinty of trinities or 9. We can leave him out as well.
How many of God's prophets, especially those who had signs lived in wealth? None, not even Jesus and the Apostles. Most lived from hand to mouth in loaned rooms. Today they live in luxury. Most of their "miracles" occur in big crowds where the money will soon flow afterwards. Not so, the OT and NT prophets.
Again, signs are for Jews so if no Jews, especially lost ones, are present Paul said it was better to prophesy/preach with undertstanding so that all may be edified.
If Tongues are exalted when they are the least of gifts and not everyone even back then had that gift then at best they are abusing the gift and at worse it is a satanic deception.
The Scripture says that in the Last Days there would be great apostasy not a New Apostolic Reformation or revival of the gifts but rather a loss of love and lying wonders to intro the Anti-Christ. None of what is going on today is based in what Scripture prophesied. There is no holy laughter or out of control behavior at all from Genesis to Revelation.
We are living in a wicked and adulterous generation and when this "revival" of the gifts happened we were also in one because God had been take out of His Book by the "scholars", out of his Creation by Darwin, out of His Counselor status by Freud and even out of economics by Marx. Evil and adulterous generations get what sign? None but the resurrection of Christ and that happened.
Now did this all start out "innocently" by folks wanting to combat the secularists? Maybe, there had been several pietist movements reacting to dead orthodoxy in the past but ended up in wildfire with people "treeing the devil" and the like. Was it taken over by the devil or did he see it as his catalyst for bringing about his version? Maybe both but in the end it was God who forsaw it, allowed it and told us about it so that the very elect would not be deceived.
Can you know? Yes, if you really want to know. Paul said many times he did not want the Saints to be ignorant but rather to come into epignosis or a full knowledge of the truth as mature sons of God.
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Word of Life
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You will know them by their fruits.
Mat 7:16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
One can have all the knowledge of the bible (Not saying that's bad, knowledge is extremely important), if they are not doers of the Word, but hearers only, than one only has religion, and their religion is in vain.
Rom 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
Jam 1:22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
Jam 1:26 If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain.
One will become more Christ-like, day by day, week by week, month by month. One is different. One will act different. One will see differently. Things that were important to us, before we were saved, will seem less important today. Putting Jesus Christ first and deny self.
Joh 3:30 He must increase, but I must decrease.
Joh 3:31 He that cometh from above is above all: he that is of the earth is earthly, and speaketh of the earth: he that cometh from heaven is above all.
Jesus is going to come back for his Church. Those are the ones, who are born in spirit and who do will of His Father. You will know them by their fruits.
Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Mat 12:50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.
If someone has been in a church for 30 years and shows know fruit of the spirit, one has to question it. I can't judge them, but question. By a person's words, one cannot tell, but by their actions, one can.
Each day I am changing, it was only this week, I thought to myself, I don't know me anymore, I am not the same person as I was year ago. When I thought that, I heard a voice saying to me "we are changing you" This scripture is so true.
Joh 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
Slowly, I am changing, day by day. I do slip up sometimes, but I ask our Father to help me in my weak areas. I also fail sometimes, but I go and ask for forgiveness and for help
Meditate on some of these scriptures:
Mat 24:40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Mat 24:41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Watch out for the enemy, as he will do his best to lead you away from our Father and Lord Jesus Christ.
Mat 13:39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
Mar 4:19 And the cares of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, and the lusts of other things entering in, choke the word, and it becometh unfruitful.
1Jo 5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
1Jo 3:14 We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.
1Jo 3:1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
1Jo 2:15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
We need to walk as Jesus walked, and become more like him day by day. And deny our selves.
There are two lots of seeds which can be planted, the good seed will lead you straight to God, but be careful, as the devil will be quick to take it away, just like he did with Eve.
Mat 13:4 And when he sowed, some seeds fell by the way side, and the fowls came and devoured them up:
Mat 13:5 Some fell upon stony places, where they had not much earth: and forthwith they sprung up, because they had no deepness of earth:
Mat 13:6 And when the sun was up, they were scorched; and because they had no root, they withered away.
Mat 13:7 And some fell among thorns; and the thorns sprung up, and choked them:
Mat 13:8 But other fell into good ground, and brought forth fruit, some an hundredfold, some sixtyfold, some thirtyfold.
Mat 13:9 Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.
Mat 7:18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
Mat 7:19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
Mat 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
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