If the church is “Raptured” in this generation, what are the people left still, in the “Institutionalized church”, called?

[B-A-C]

Rev 7:13; Then one of the elders answered, saying to me, "These who are clothed in the white robes, who are they, and where have they come from?"
Rev 7:14; I said to him, "My lord, you know." And he said to me, "These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
Rev 7:15; "For this reason, they are before the throne of God; and they serve Him day and night in His temple; and He who sits on the throne will spread His tabernacle over them.
Rev 7:16; "They will hunger no longer, nor thirst anymore; nor will the sun beat down on them, nor any heat;
Rev 7:17; for the Lamb in the center of the throne will be their shepherd, and will guide them to springs of the water of life; and God will wipe every tear from their eyes."

If you take this passage in full... then "ONLY" those who come out of the tribulation will be those who wear the white robes in the temple.

Rev 20:4; Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

Also this passage seems to say only those who were beheaded and not take the mark of the beast will reign with Jesus during the millennial reign.

Rev 20:5; The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed. This is the first resurrection.
Rev 20:6; Blessed and holy is the one who has a part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with Him for a thousand years.

It says "the rest of the dead" don't come back to life until after the millennial reign.

 

[Sue D.]

And,maybe, by the time the rapture Does take place -- there will be a lot more people being martyred. There are people being martyred Now -- always Have been.

It's been a mystery to me as to who Will be reigning with Christ during the 1,000 yrs. I'll be 'somewhere'. Definitely not non-raptured. And , more than likely -- before hand.

 

[Bill]

Greetings Bill

It sure is Bill, Jesus tells us to do it in remembrance of Him, we are to take bread and wine in remembrance of Jesus, as He did at the Last Supper, they are symbols of His body and Blood, not literally eating and drinking His body.

Luke 22:14-20 (NKJV)
14 When the hour had come, He sat down, and the twelve apostles with Him.
15 Then He said to them, "With fervent desire I have desired to eat this Passover with you before I suffer;
16 for I say to you, I will no longer eat of it until it is fulfilled in the kingdom of God."
17 Then He took the cup, and gave thanks, and said, "Take this and divide it among yourselves;
18 for I say to you, I will not drink of the fruit of the vine until the kingdom of God comes."
19 And He took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to them, saying, "This is My body which is given for you; do this in remembrance of Me."
20 Likewise He also took the cup after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in My blood, which is shed for you.

He took bread - He said this is my body (bread) which is given for you

He took the cup - He said This Cup (wine) is the New Covenent IN My Blood which is shed for you.

Bread and wine are symbols not actual flesh and blood as the RCC practice at mass.

Scripture is clear, the RCC choose to emphasise by cherry picking scripture.

From Post 354 above...

Looking back a little to John 6:40 (NIV2011)
For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.

John 6:54
Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.

Comparing these two verses side by side, it becomes clear that eating Jesus’ flesh and drinking his blood is a metaphor for believing in him. Continuing the metaphor, Jesus said, For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink. This tells us, Jesus is the source of true satisfaction; belief in him who gave his life for the world is the only way to satisfy human hunger and thirst for God.

The RCC has again got this out of context... as the Jews did. As we know elsewhere in the Bible Jesus used bread and wine as symbols of His Body and Blood

Luke 22:14-19 (NIV2011)
14 When the hour came, Jesus and his apostles reclined at the table.
15 And he said to them, “I have eagerly desired to eat this Passover with you before I suffer.
16 For I tell you, I will not eat it again until it finds fulfillment in the kingdom of God.”
17 After taking the cup, he gave thanks and said, “Take this and divide it among you.
18 For I tell you I will not drink again from the fruit of the vine until the kingdom of God comes.”
19 And he took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to them, saying, “This is my body given for you; do this in remembrance of me.”

The Cherry picking as you call it , is no different than us . Dont we also cherry pick the scripture to fit our needs ?

Matthew 26: 26 Jesus took some of the bread and when he had said the blessing he broke it and gave it to the disciples. " Take it and eat " he said " this is my body " . Then he took a cup and when he had returned thanks he gave it to them . " Drink all of you from this " he said " for this is my blood the blood of the Covenant which is to be poured out for many for the Forgiveness of sins. "

Now Jesus is clearly saying eat my body and drink my blood . We know that scripture is not just a physical thing , but also a spiritual thing .

I choose not to condemn Catholics just as i choose not to condemn all Christians . But Gods love and discipline is given to both . Especially when they are brothers and sisters. So i only caution you to understand the scriptures when it states " welcome them who come in my name " for if you do not , you too will condemn yourselves.

 

[Bill]

We should get back on track of this post before Plough Boy gives us another lecture . Lol

 

[Sue D.]

There is a big difference between the RCC priest and giving the Mass and 'teaching' transubstantiation AND taking the Lord's Super / Communion as presented in 1 Corinthians 11:23 - 29

The RCC beliefs are contrary to Scripture -- there is no Mass in Scripture. That which Protestant churches practice Is.

 

[Bill]

There is a big difference between the RCC priest and giving the Mass and 'teaching' transubstantiation AND taking the Lord's Super / Communion as presented in 1 Corinthians 11:23 - 29

The RCC beliefs are contrary to Scripture -- there is no Mass in Scripture. That which Protestant churches practice Is.

I didnt realize you hated catholics so much . . Doesnt Jesus say , " if they are for us , they aren' t against us ." ( speaking of one who isnt someone like us

And again . Scripture states to accept those who come in Jesus name .

Let be caution then to Judge others who do these things . Lest we be the ones who are judged

 

[Brother-Paul]

There is a big difference between the RCC priest and giving the Mass and 'teaching' transubstantiation AND taking the Lord's Super / Communion as presented in 1 Corinthians 11:23 - 29

The RCC beliefs are contrary to Scripture -- there is no Mass in Scripture. That which Protestant churches practice Is.

Greetings Sue

The RCC or CC now, do practice what they call mass, the protestants practice Holy Communion.

There are so many wrongs in the Catholic Church as we know, so many items against scripture, is it wrong to point these out, no, scripture tells us to do so, I know you agree with these comments.

By sharing the errors against scripture we are making them known to others so they do not fall into the trap of believing them. The RCC will always preach what it thinks, even the reformation didn't change their ways, the only way a Catholic will come to question what they are taught by their ministers is to be told what scripture actually says. I have shared this previously but share it again now, I went to a wedding at a Catholic church, as I sat there I looked at the ten commandments on the wall, I read it, read it again, but couldn't at that time suss out what was wrong, there were ten commandment, but it wasn't right, what was wrong? Afterwards I read the ten commandments in my Bible, what they had done was very clever, they had removed, the warning of graven image worship, they had altered two other parts to end up with ten commandments. This was an old painting in the stone wall, not hundreds of years but I guess at least a 100 years. The time it has been on the wall is not the issue, it was proof of what the RCC teach, have taught, and will continue to preach.

There is no 'mass' in scripture, there is no pope in scripture but they claim Peter was a pope. There are no cardinals in scripture, the ministers are called 'Father's' yet scripture clearly says we should call no one Father! We could carry on, enough I think.

Bless you

2 Timothy 3:16 KJV
All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17 so that the servant of God[a] may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

 

[Brother-Paul]

I didnt realize you hated catholics so much . . Doesnt Jesus say , " if they are for us , they aren' t against us ." ( speaking of one who isnt someone like us

And again . Scripture states to accept those who come in Jesus name .

Let be caution then to Judge others who do these things . Lest we be the ones who are judged

Greeting brother

Sue does not hate catholics, I do not hate catholics, it is important to share the wrongs brother, if we don't they will not know what they are taught is against God's Word.

Had Luther not come forward with the 95 theses, catholic church errors against scripture there may not have been a reformation and we would all accept
their errors in teaching. God knows best, our Lord's true church will shine, the ekklesia is His.

Catholics teach they are the only ones who will go to heaven, they are all born again! There are some in the catholic church who are saved, only God knows which so it is wrong of us to speculate, but if they haven't read and truly understood John 3:1-21 they are lost souls, being guided by blind guides.

A retired Pentecostal minster, a lovely man of God, a neighbour until he passed away to be with the Lord once said to me, brother-paul, the two hardest groups to be converted, to come to Christ as a saved soul are, the Jews and the Catholics. Over the years I have found this to be true.

Bless you.

2 Timothy 3:16
All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

 

[Sue D.]

I didnt realize you hated catholics so much . . Doesnt Jesus say , " if they are for us , they aren' t against us ." ( speaking of one who isnt someone like us

And again . Scripture states to accept those who come in Jesus name .

Let be caution then to Judge others who do these things . Lest we be the ones who are judged

I do Not hate RCC people. I married into a family in which about half of the brothers married RCC women. When a church group -- even a Huge, powerful one-- is teaching that which is Not Biblical -- shouldn't it be pointed out as the circumstance present itself to do so? I'm Not being hateful to be sharing that which is / is Not in the Scripture.

Your comment "if they are for us, they aren't against us." where are you quoting that from? The RCC is Not 'for' us. 'We' tried to reform from Within the Church. Remember the 99 Thesis? And Martin Luther? The Protestant Reformation. All of that happened for a Reason.

All who come in Jesus' name -- well -- who are 'they' saying that Jesus Is?

Many decades ago, I was at an RCC wedding. A brother-in-law married a very nice lady -- Terry and I are Still friends. It was a wonderful wedding. Long with a time to greet one another. I lived about 30 years in a Chek/ RCC town Before knowing it Was. And, of course, they are persuaded that the RCC is the Only True church. Back Then we were looking for a town with the lowest property tax rate and there was a small Baptist church.

 

[Bill]

I do Not hate RCC people. I married into a family in which about half of the brothers married RCC women. When a church group -- even a Huge, powerful one-- is teaching that which is Not Biblical -- shouldn't it be pointed out as the circumstance present itself to do so? I'm Not being hateful to be sharing that which is / is Not in the Scripture.

Your comment "if they are for us, they aren't against us." where are you quoting that from? The RCC is Not 'for' us. 'We' tried to reform from Within the Church. Remember the 99 Thesis? And Martin Luther? The Protestant Reformation. All of that happened for a Reason.

All who come in Jesus' name -- well -- who are 'they' saying that Jesus Is?

Many decades ago, I was at an RCC wedding. A brother-in-law married a very nice lady -- Terry and I are Still friends. It was a wonderful wedding. Long with a time to greet one another. I lived about 30 years in a Chek/ RCC town Before knowing it Was. And, of course, they are persuaded that the RCC is the Only True church. Back Then we were looking for a town with the lowest property tax rate and there was a small Baptist church.

I am well aware of the Catholic errors as well as the Protestant errors . I constantly argue to both groups .

God looks at the heart

Both of you are so stubborn it drives me nuts . ( Catholics and Protestants )

Where your heart is at , is what will save you . You can claim all day long . I am a Christian , but if you heart isnt circumsized , if you do not love unconditionally , you will never see heaven .

Only through Love can you Go to the Father . And what is Love . Jesus is Love . Period .

Knowing who Jesus is , accepting Jesus as Lord and Savior, and not being filled with Love , is like a gong clanging in the wind.

 

[Bill]

Greeting brother

Sue does not hate catholics, I do not hate catholics, it is important to share the wrongs brother, if we don't they will not know what they are taught is against God's Word.

Had Luther not come forward with the 95 theses, catholic church errors against scripture there may not have been a reformation and we would all accept
their errors in teaching. God knows best, our Lord's true church will shine, the ekklesia is His.

Catholics teach they are the only ones who will go to heaven, they are all born again! There are some in the catholic church who are saved, only God knows which so it is wrong of us to speculate, but if they haven't read and truly understood John 3:1-21 they are lost souls, being guided by blind guides.

A retired Pentecostal minster, a lovely man of God, a neighbour until he passed away to be with the Lord once said to me, brother-paul, the two hardest groups to be converted, to come to Christ as a saved soul are, the Jews and the Catholics. Over the years I have found this to be true.

Bless you.

2 Timothy 3:16
All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

The Apostles caught a man preaching and brought him to the Lord . They said ," He is not one of us . " the Lord replied " if he is for us, then he isnt against us . "

How can we tell the Catholics are with us . It is easy if you quit whining and just look . No one can cast out demons , if they are not in the Lord . And there are plenty of priests and laymen who do just that and much more .

Just like in protestant churches .

Healing, word of God , all sorts of miracles that are in God .

See with your heart , not with you head .

We may not understand Gods ways, but God is with Catholics just as much as He is with Protestants

 

[Bill]

Father , you were so right about Your children , squabbling . I am so ready for this task to be finished . " Are you really ready my son ? Soon you will wish you had more time , to save as many as possible " They wont listen , not one . " Not yet , be patient "

 

[Sue D.]

Bill -- you've got some Strange concepts / attitudes.

 

[Samson2020]

Father , you were so right about Your children , squabbling . I am so ready for this task to be finished . " Are you really ready my son ? Soon you will wish you had more time , to save as many as possible " They wont listen , not one . " Not yet , be patient "

This must be why Jesus was told by the Father to speak to them in parables, because they needed to plainly understand so they could make a choice?
As opposed to it was only those that were CHOSEN to understand that the parables and secrets of the kingdom were revealed.

I would add that your Bible like mine says that God uses the FOOLISHNESS of preaching to save them that believe.
It was the work that Jesus did that saved us all. Romans 5:18
It's just a matter of Gods timing as to when he gives them faith to believe.

The curious thing is that he who can believe without seeing is more blessed than he who must see to believe. And we know that ALL FLESH shall see the
salvation of God.
Every knee shall bow and every tongue confess but yet these who are not chosen in the first death are less blessed than those taken in first death. Must be a simple
matter of how long God wants an individual to be appointed to disobedience.
But yet to whom more is forgiven the same loveth more?

 

[Sue D.]

So you believe that Every person Will eventually accept Jesus Christ as their Savior -- based on the fact that 'every knee shall bow and every tongue confess'. I've interpreted that to mean that eventually Every one -- atheists , agnostics included Will acknowledge God's existing. But that does Not mean they will be saved. Because by Then, it will be too late for them to accept.

Romans 5:18 "Therefore, as through one man's offense judgement came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man's righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life."

 

[Samson2020]

Romans 5:18 "Therefore, as through one man's offense judgement came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man's righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life."

It's right there in Romans 5:18 that you posted. God condemned ALL then God justified ALL. Isn't that what you see when you read that verse? Keep in mind that
if God did not condemn all you would have been sinless since birth but we all know that is not the case so whether you like it or not you lived under condemnation
because God said so in the above verse, but he also said that because of what Jesus did he is giving the FREE GIFT of justification of life to the same ALL.

 

[Sue D.]

We are all born sinners -- "For all have sinned....." God has provided salvation for All -- but 'all' won't accept it.

 

[Samson2020]

We are all born sinners -- "For all have sinned....." God has provided salvation for All -- but 'all' won't accept it.

Where in Romans 5:18 does it say that you had to accept condemnation or justification? If you were born a sinner then you lived under condemnation and therefore
you will be justified unto life because God said so not because you chose either.

 

[Sue D.]

So you believe in universal salvation.

 

[Samson2020]

So you believe in universal salvation.

Yes.
Why do you think it is called the GOOD NEWS? Like the Lord said if YOU continue in my word then YOU shall know the truth and the truth shall set YOU free.
Can you think of any way to be more free than to know ALL is covered including your children, grandchildren, grandmother, mother, dad, brothers, sisters, Muslims,
Catholics, atheists, agnostics etc.... He purposed it before the foundation of the world and he is making it happen because he wanted children to love and that would
love him eternally. And I believe you know the word as it says "We love him, because he first loved us." It will be an extremely large family!