If the church is “Raptured” in this generation, what are the people left still, in the “Institutionalized church”, called?

[Samson2020]

1 Ti 4:9-11 " This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptation."
"For therefore we both labor and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God WHO IS THE SAVIOR OF ALL MEN, specially those that believe."
"These things COMMAND AND TEACH.

Notice in verse 10 it plainly states that God IS the Savior of ALL men. This verse would be a lie if ALL men are not saved. It doesn't say he wants to be or
wishes he could be it plainly says he IS.

It would seem that for some reason there are those that would say everybody else didn't do what I did so they don't deserve......neither do they as faith is a gift
necessary to believe that you don't have until it is given to you. If God wants to give to ALL then he is free and clear to do so regardless of anyones objections. It is his
will that will be accomplished on earth not yours or mine.

There is a parable Matthew 20:1-16 speaks of this kind of thinking.

Now tell me did you first believe or did faith come to you so that you could believe? And if faith came first then who was responsible for saving you? It wasn't you.
So why try to use scripture to tell yourself what God can and cannot do as all things are possible with God.

 

[B-A-C]

Notice in verse 10 it plainly states that God IS the Savior of ALL men. This verse would be a lie if ALL men are not saved. It doesn't say he wants to be or

Certainly, no one will be saved without Him. But He Himself says not all will be saved.
Are you calling Jesus a liar?

 

[Dave M]

Those who have Christ living in thier hearts , even if they have never heard of Jesus . Will be the ones who are saved.

Brother Bill this is interesting , I often wonder about this, for all the people that are loving yet follow wrong doctrines. Could you please provide scripture to support this statement?

I have looked and the closet thing that resembles any of this that I could find, peace be with you

1 John 4:16
So we have come to know and to believe the love that God has for us. God is love, and whoever abides in love abides in God, and God abides in him.

1 Peter 4:8
Above all, keep loving one another earnestly, since love covers a multitude of sins.

1 John 2:29
If you know that he is righteous, you may be sure that everyone who practices righteousness has been born of him.

yet we have must believe in Jesus to be saved, if you dont know who Jesus is, how can one believe he died for our sins

Romans 10:9
Because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

then we are told because of lack of knowledge people are lost

Hosea 4:6
My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge; because you have rejected knowledge, I reject you from being a priest to me. And since you have forgotten the law of your God, I also will forget your children.

 

[Samson2020]

ohn 3:35 "The Father loveth the Son and hath given ALL things into his hand."

All things, it doesn't say all souls.

Your right it doesn't, but what else would Jesus be looking for? Trees, grape vines, houses, stars, you tell me? He died for his friends thats us so all things includes
all souls.

Certainly, no one will be saved without Him. But He Himself says not all will be saved.
Are you calling Jesus a liar?

Verse you would present to justify this? And you are correct in that no one will be saved without him. The infilling of the Holy Ghost which quickens to life the
spirit within a man must be accomplished in all men as only then would death be destroyed which is the last enemy to be put under his feet. Then will the kingdom
be delivered back to the Father.

Col 1:20 " And having made peace by the blood of his cross to reconcile ALL THINGS unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven."

 

[Dave M]

Verse you would present to justify this?

we know for fact certain people that practice the following will not go to heaven

1 Corinthians 6:9-10
Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.

 

[Samson2020]

we know for fact certain people that practice the following will not go to heaven

1 Corinthians 6:9-10
Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.

I agree with you completely. The only question is do any of mankind stay in this state of disobedience that they were appointed to or does God give them faith at
some point that they become believers and are saved from themselves and Satan?

Good verse but it does not say what the poster implied.

If there is a second death which I know you have read of, is it possible there is a third?

 

[Sue D.]

1 Corinthians 6 passage -- people that make a habit of doing those things.

Maybe -- instead of wondering about a 2nd or even a 3rd death -- why not focus on our daily lives Now. As long as a person is living in this world, there will always be sinfulnes. -- but, those activities should Not be habitual in the person's life.

If they Are -- then there's a Good indication that the person has not come to have Christ as their personal Savior. Because the Holy Spirit's indwelling Will change the person's desires -- they Won't continue in a given negative life-style.

And there are many people who need to hear the Gospel unto salvation Many times Before accepting it.

Is anyone really 'saved from themselves and/ or satan?" We will Always have choices to make. The Holy Spirit indwelling us helps us to make Better decisions.

 

[Dave M]

@Bill
""Those who have Christ living in thier hearts , even if they have never heard of Jesus . Will be the ones who are saved."

Can I ask whear you learn this???

the other thing that really concerns me about this statement, is does it in a a way take away from what Jesus did for us??? I know that is not your intent, but it seems to possibly suggest this.

I mean we look at the what the word teaches and it says the ONLY way to the father is through Jesus,

John 14:6
Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

 

[Samson2020]

Maybe -- instead of wondering about a 2nd or even a 3rd death -- why not focus on our daily lives Now. As long as a person is living in this world, there will always be sinfulnes. -- but, those activities should Not be habitual in the person's life.

I'm not wondering about either I can see whats coming but thought I would tease some into searching. Didn't seem to work as they all quit the thread.

Is anyone really 'saved from themselves and/ or satan?" We will Always have choices to make. The Holy Spirit indwelling us helps us to make Better decisions.

Yes when he who is in you is really in you then you indeed are being saved from yourself and Satan as he is less than he that is in you. Led by the Spirit???

A person that is appointed to disobedience can't do anything other than be disobedient til the Father decides to change them. If he has appointed them to be
disobedient they cannot choose to do anything other than what they have been appointed to do.

 

[Bill]

But knowing who Jesus is at judgement time will be too late to accept Him as their personal Lord and Savior.

A person needs to place their Faith In the shed blood of Jesus Christ on the cross -- That He was the Son of God. -- as being all that's needed for our salvation.

So - a person Does need to know who Jesus Christ Is in order to accept Him as their personal Savior. I'm thinking another poster commented about that.

But you are missing the point ive been trying to make .

Anyone , doesnt matter whether Christian in name or anyone else . When a person loves fully in his heart . When the person gives of himself , visits the prisons , feeds the hungry , aids the poor , .

These people already have Christ within them . It is because they love . Let us say there is a catholic priest who casts out demons . This act can not be done unless Jesus is with him already .

We dont understand

But we are also not God.

As Jesus points out . Matt : 25 : 31 thru 46 it was at the Judgement seat when they came to realize who the Lord was.

 

[Bill]

@Bill
""Those who have Christ living in thier hearts , even if they have never heard of Jesus . Will be the ones who are saved."

Can I ask whear you learn this???

the other thing that really concerns me about this statement, is does it in a a way take away from what Jesus did for us??? I know that is not your intent, but it seems to possibly suggest this.

I mean we look at the what the word teaches and it says the ONLY way to the father is through Jesus,

John 14:6
Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

Going throught Jesus is not a physical thing . ( it can be ) .

Going through Jesus is like walking through a waterfall of Love .

When a person loves deeply in thier heart. , when others are greater than yourself . When you are willing to die to yourself for others sake . Christ lives in you.

The one who sees the bomb, and jumps on it to save others . Lives in paradise.

The Amish girls, that sacrificed themselves , saying to the gunman. " Shoot me, shoot me " so the other children could escape . They are in paradise .

Anyone who lives in love , deeply for others . Christ already lives in them.

 

[Bill]

@Bill
""Those who have Christ living in thier hearts , even if they have never heard of Jesus . Will be the ones who are saved."

Can I ask whear you learn this???

the other thing that really concerns me about this statement, is does it in a a way take away from what Jesus did for us??? I know that is not your intent, but it seems to possibly suggest this.

I mean we look at the what the word teaches and it says the ONLY way to the father is through Jesus,

John 14:6
Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

Read Matthew 25 : 31 thru 46

 

[Bill]

Brother Bill this is interesting , I often wonder about this, for all the people that are loving yet follow wrong doctrines. Could you please provide scripture to support this statement?

I have looked and the closet thing that resembles any of this that I could find, peace be with you

1 John 4:16
So we have come to know and to believe the love that God has for us. God is love, and whoever abides in love abides in God, and God abides in him.

1 Peter 4:8
Above all, keep loving one another earnestly, since love covers a multitude of sins.

1 John 2:29
If you know that he is righteous, you may be sure that everyone who practices righteousness has been born of him.

yet we have must believe in Jesus to be saved, if you dont know who Jesus is, how can one believe he died for our sins

Romans 10:9
Because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

then we are told because of lack of knowledge people are lost

Hosea 4:6
My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge; because you have rejected knowledge, I reject you from being a priest to me. And since you have forgotten the law of your God, I also will forget your children.

Notice when you read Matthew 25 . A few things . It is before the Judgement seat , that this takes place.

There is one who cast out demons ( we know that man must have been in God to do it . , but something happened in his life, where God rejects him in the end .

I sometimes think this story tells us of Judas . As Judas's name was " written in heaven " then he lost it

Those the Lord said to come with Him to eternal reward , did not know who Jesus was , they did not recognize Jesus within those people

The King never mentions of what thier titles were ( Chrisian , Jew , etc. ) only of thier deeds

 

[Bill]

1 Corinthians 6 passage -- people that make a habit of doing those things.

Maybe -- instead of wondering about a 2nd or even a 3rd death -- why not focus on our daily lives Now. As long as a person is living in this world, there will always be sinfulnes. -- but, those activities should Not be habitual in the person's life.

If they Are -- then there's a Good indication that the person has not come to have Christ as their personal Savior. Because the Holy Spirit's indwelling Will change the person's desires -- they Won't continue in a given negative life-style.

And there are many people who need to hear the Gospel unto salvation Many times Before accepting it.

Is anyone really 'saved from themselves and/ or satan?" We will Always have choices to make. The Holy Spirit indwelling us helps us to make Better decisions.

Very true

 

[PloughBoy]

Very strange, leaven going on in here.

 

[Sue D.]

Very strange, leaven going on in here.

Why do you say That?

 

[Samson2020]

Why do you say That?

It appears to be salvation without knowledge of Jesus

 

[Sue D.]

There is no salvation without Jesus being the Son of God.

 

[Samson2020]

There is no salvation without Jesus being the Son of God.

Thats the leaven he's speaking about

 

[Sue D.]

How can That possibly be 'leaven'. Doesn't make sense.