Is God One or is He Three?

[First and the Last]

We can add this:

Noone on Earth brings new revelation, that isn't already revealed through the Word of God (Jesus Christ), which is fullest revelation given to man. Through the moving and operation of the Holy Ghost, I Pray what we say here (with Scriptural backing) brings the truth of these Revelations, truth by truth, or precept upon precept, to the heart of the hearer. Lay what we say before the feet of Jesus (Word of God) and compare, the Bible is Always truth, so if they don't match, we need to reevaluate our stance. What we say or do here will have lasting impact upon the believer and sinner alike. We most certainly have freedom of speech, but any true christian will weigh what they say against the Word of God and if they don't agree God is not in error, and we need to pray for understanding. Those that have more meat of the Word can help those who are struggling, if done with humility, peace and love. I don't mind a peaceful debate, but when we start to argue amongst each other that is not the Spirit of God. God Bless and Peace to you all. (This signature is in general and not pointing fingers at anyone at anytime. God Bless.)

 

[Charlie24]

We can add this:

Noone on Earth brings new revelation, that isn't already revealed through the Word of God (Jesus Christ), which is fullest revelation given to man. Through the moving and operation of the Holy Ghost, I Pray what we say here (with Scriptural backing) brings the truth of these Revelations, truth by truth, or precept upon precept, to the heart of the hearer. Lay what we say before the feet of Jesus (Word of God) and compare, the Bible is Always truth, so if they don't match, we need to reevaluate our stance. What we say or do here will have lasting impact upon the believer and sinner alike. We most certainly have freedom of speech, but any true christian will weigh what they say against the Word of God and if they don't agree God is not in error, and we need to pray for understanding. Those that have more meat of the Word can help those who are struggling, if done with humility, peace and love. I don't mind a peaceful debate, but when we start to argue amongst each other that is not the Spirit of God. God Bless and Peace to you all. (This signature is in general and not pointing fingers at anyone at anytime. God Bless.)

I encourage debates on any and everything concerning the Word of God. It may get hot at times and that's ok if we remain civilized.

I enter those debates with only one thing in mind, the guests not the one I'm debating.

I want those who are confused on what to believe to clearly see the point I'm making and why it's important.

Some of these folks are honestly looking for the answers of what to believe, without debates they can't understand the different views involved.

 

[Charlie24]

I encourage debates on any and everything concerning the Word of God. It may get hot at times and that's ok if we remain civilized.

I enter those debates with only one thing in mind, the guests not the one I'm debating.

I want those who are confused on what to believe to clearly see the point I'm making and why it's important.

Some of these folks are honestly looking for the answers of what to believe, without debates they can't understand the different views involved.

Take for example the debate we have been having on the Oneness Theology, you haven't been banned here and have been on other sites.

I think that's a good thing. the folks who don't know anything about this subject can see both sides and at least have a basis for what to believe.

In that debate I have no doubt many questions have been answered for many who had no idea what to believe.

 

[Alter2Ego]

Which means context, context, context.
As far as translations, and any preexisting bias held by the translators, we must leave it in the hand of God to judge their handling of His Word. Which to me is similar to the handling of the Ark of the Covenant in the OT. What might seem wrong to us, can be right with God, and vice versa. Unless, they are taken out of not only context, but existing manuscripts, as well as the language roots used during the time of the original autographs which we only have copies of.

Christ4Ever:

Context is the key to overcoming manipulation of scripture by Bible translators. Unfortunately, many of the people that I have debated over the years (at various websites) do not pay attention to context. Such ones isolate a few words from an entire chapter or an entire Bible book, ignore everything else that makes up the context, and then use the cherry-picked words to support what they choose to believe. Take, for example, the following verse of scripture, a favorite for Trinitarians, where Jesus said:

I and the Father are one.” (John 10:30)​

Jesus was not say that he and the Father are literally one god. Why can one conclude that? Because the context--within the very same book of John--has him using the same expression "one" with reference to his dozens of disciples. Notice part of the context below:

​

"[1] Jesus spoke these things, and raising his eyes to heaven, he said: “Father, the hour has come. Glorify your son so that your son may glorify you, [6] “I have made your name manifest to the men whom you gave me out of the world. They were yours, and you gave them to me, and they have observed your word. [20] “I make request, not concerning these only, but also concerning those putting faith in me through their word, [21] so that they may all be one, just as you, Father, are in union with me and I am in union with you, that they also may be in union with us, so that the world may believe that you sent me. [22] I have given them the glory that you have given me, in order that they may be one just as we are one. [23] I in union with them and you in union with me, in order that they may be perfected into one, so that the world may know that you sent me and that you loved them just as you loved me." (John 17: 1, 6, 20-23)




Notice how many times Jesus used the expression "one" even when discussing his dozens of followers. Are we then to expect all of his disciples to merge into a single human being? Logic tells us "Of course not." The context to John 10:30 therefore leads honest-hearted persons to understand that the expression "one" in this instance is with reference to unity of purpose or individuals being in agreement with one another and that it is not with reference to the digit number 1. Notice below how Webster's dictionary defines the word "one" at definition #3(b)(2).

one​

adjective​

3 a: being the same in kind or quality
both of one species

"Puma" and "cougar" are different names for one animal.

b (1): constituting a unified entity of two or more components
The combined elements form one substance.

(2): being in agreement or union
am one with you on this

Definition of ONE

being a single unit or thing; being one in particular; being preeminently what is indicated… See the full definition

www.merriam-webster.com

Since logic tells the reader that the word "one" when used at John 17:21-23 (with reference to Jesus' dozens of disciples) indicates he was talking about agreement or unity of purpose among his many followers, then the same logic must be applied at John 10:30 where Jesus used the very same word "one".


Alter2Ego

 

[Charlie24]

Christ4Ever:

Context is the key to overcoming manipulation of scripture by Bible translators. Unfortunately, many of the people that I have debated over the years (at various websites) do not pay attention to context. Such ones isolate a few words from an entire chapter or an entire Bible book, ignore everything else that makes up the context, and then use the cherry-picked words to support what they choose to believe. Take, for example, the following verse of scripture, a favorite for Trinitarians, where Jesus said:

I and the Father are one.” (John 10:30)​

Jesus was not say that he and the Father are literally one god. Why can one conclude that? Because the context--within the very same book of John--has him using the same expression "one" with reference to his dozens of disciples. Notice part of the context below:

​

"[1] Jesus spoke these things, and raising his eyes to heaven, he said: “Father, the hour has come. Glorify your son so that your son may glorify you, [6] “I have made your name manifest to the men whom you gave me out of the world. They were yours, and you gave them to me, and they have observed your word. [20] “I make request, not concerning these only, but also concerning those putting faith in me through their word, [21] so that they may all be one, just as you, Father, are in union with me and I am in union with you, that they also may be in union with us, so that the world may believe that you sent me. [22] I have given them the glory that you have given me, in order that they may be one just as we are one. [23] I in union with them and you in union with me, in order that they may be perfected into one, so that the world may know that you sent me and that you loved them just as you loved me." (John 17: 1, 6, 20-23)




Notice how many times Jesus used the expression "one" even when discussing his dozens of followers. Are we then to expect all of his disciples to merge into a single human being? Logic tells us "Of course not." The context to John 10:30 therefore leads honest-hearted persons to understand that the expression "one" in this instance is with reference to unity of purpose or individuals being in agreement with one another and that it is not with reference to the digit number 1. Notice below how Webster's dictionary defines the word "one" at definition #3(b)(2).

one​

adjective​

3 a: being the same in kind or quality
both of one species

"Puma" and "cougar" are different names for one animal.

b (1): constituting a unified entity of two or more components
The combined elements form one substance.

(2): being in agreement or union
am one with you on this

Definition of ONE

being a single unit or thing; being one in particular; being preeminently what is indicated… See the full definition

www.merriam-webster.com

Since logic tells the reader that the word "one" when used at John 17:21-23 (with reference to Jesus' dozens of disciples) indicates he was talking about agreement or unity of purpose among his many followers, then the same logic must be applied at John 10:30 where Jesus used the very same word "one".


Alter2Ego

The body of Christ is not one in number just as the Three that bear record in heaven are not one in number.

The definition of "one" is not what you assume it is.

 

[First and the Last]

I and the Father are one.” (John 10:30)

Because of Scriptures like Colossians 2:9 and 1 Timothy 3:16 Could we also say Humanity and Deity are One. Scriptures like this also indicate that the Godhead will forever be inseparable in the Body of Christ for eternity.

 

[Christ4Ever]

Context is the key to overcoming manipulation of scripture by Bible translators. Unfortunately, many of the people that I have debated over the years (at various websites) do not pay attention to context. Such ones isolate a few words from an entire chapter or an entire Bible book, ignore everything else that makes up the context, and then use the cherry-picked words to support what they choose to believe. Take, for example, the following verse of scripture, a favorite for Trinitarians, where Jesus said:

I and the Father are one.” (John 10:30)​

Jesus was not say that he and the Father are literally one god. Why can one conclude that? Because the context--within the very same book of John--has him using the same expression "one" with reference to his dozens of disciples. Notice part of the context below:

Don't be so quick to throw stones brother! Counterarguments might benefit you in the writing, but not here with me. I don't need you to debate both sides. In fact, I don't need you to debate at all on this subject! lol

If that is what you are looking for, which I believe you are, may I suggest to you that you go to another site? Because purposely coming to a site that disagrees with your doctrinal position, is not seeking peace/growth in God's Word, but conflict.

For now, I'll grab the hook you placed in the water, but unless you like seaweed, what you get back might not be to your taste or satisfying to say the least.

You didn't have to go so far afield to answer what Jesus meant in saying "I and the Father are One" (John 10:30). Since you agree with context, then reading verses 31-33 or the rest of the chapter, provides the answer for you.

Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him. Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me? The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God. John 10:31-33 KJV

This being a legalistic society, everything being said in these exchanges must be seen through that lens. There was nothing untold, that a son would have the same authority and represent as the father in their society, when acting on his behalf, and so would be seen legally as the father himself were acting and just as binding. So, the anger of the hearers to Jesus, for they understood Him to mean "...makest thyself God."

So, focusing on "one" here, will surely throw you off to what this exchange was about, unless you consider their perspective as well to what was being said by our Lord to them.

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
Nick
\o/
<><

 

[Searchingtoo]

Our Elohim is the One God revealed in one person.

Can you show me the Bible verse that says this?

 

[First and the Last]

Can we say it this way:

The Father and the Holy Ghost, which is God's Spirit, are invisible and omnipresent, without a physical body. Jesus, the Son, is the manifestation of the self-expressive Eternal Word, the Father, and His Spirit, becoming the only visible form of God to humanity. This is apart from the theophanies of the Old Testament, such as in Genesis 18:1-2 when the Lord appeared to Abraham, and in Exodus 3:2-6 where God appeared to Moses in the burning bush. Additionally, God appeared to Jacob as a man who wrestled with him (Genesis 32:24-30) and to Joshua as the Commander of the Lord's army (Joshua 5:13-15). These theophanies foreshadow the ultimate revelation of God in Jesus Christ. Additionally, God's omnipresent Spirit operates through the gifts of the Spirit among His people, as described in 1 Corinthians 12:4-11.

Jesus Christ, embodying the fullness of the Godhead bodily (Colossians 2:9), is now the permanent residence of God's tangible presence throughout all eternity in His glorified, resurrected body (Philippians 3:21). This means that Jesus is the visible and tangible expression of the one true God. His humanity and deity are inseparably united, demonstrating that all the fullness of the Godhead dwells in Him.

This understanding emphasizes that Jesus is the manifestation of the one God, who has revealed Himself as Father in creation, as Son in redemption, and as the Holy Spirit in regeneration. The omnipresent Spirit of God continues to work invisibly through His followers (John 14:16-17), empowering and guiding them in their spiritual walk. The unified and singular nature of God is thus maintained, with Jesus Christ as the central and visible expression of that divine unity.

Jesus Christ represents the full and complete revelation of God to humanity, embodying the divine presence in a physical form that will endure throughout eternity. His invisible omnipresent Spirit remains active in the world, working through believers to fulfill God's redemptive plan and purpose.

 

[Searchingtoo]

Because of Scriptures like Colossians 2:9 and 1 Timothy 3:16 Could we also say Humanity and Deity are One. Scriptures like this also indicate that the Godhead will forever be inseparable in the Body of Christ for eternity.

In john 17:11 Jesus went on to explain how he and the Father are one when he said that the disciples "would be one as we are." (talking about how Jesus and God are one) Then in verse 22 he defines it even further when he says " that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me." I don't think Jesus was saying the disciples were God any more than he (Jesus) was. In John 17:3 Jesus said that his Father was the only true God. Sorry!

 

[Searchingtoo]

God IS three persons. He has a triune nature.

Scripture please.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

Is God absolutely monotheistic, inseparably and numerically One or is He three separate distinct persons?

God is ONE!! Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

 

[Alter2Ego]

Context is the key to overcoming manipulation of scripture by Bible translators. Unfortunately, many of the people that I have debated over the years (at various websites) do not pay attention to context. Such ones isolate a few words from an entire chapter or an entire Bible book, ignore everything else that makes up the context, and then use the cherry-picked words to support what they choose to believe. Take, for example . . . . "I and the Father are one.” (John 10:30)

Don't be so quick to throw stones brother! Counterarguments might benefit you in the writing, but not here with me. I don't need you to debate both sides. In fact, I don't need you to debate at all on this subject! lol

Christ4Ever:

Throw stones? Nonsense. I simply stated facts about what is done by people who choose to cherry-pick words from entire Bible books and ignore everything else (context) that gives the correct understanding . Without context, the cherry-picked words can easily be given the meaning that suits the person who did the cherry picking. In fact, you said as much when you emphasized "context, context, context."

Alter2Ego

 

[Bill Taylor]

Can you show me the Bible verse that says this?

I am sorry, that should be three persons.

 

[Alter2Ego]

You didn't have to go so far afield to answer what Jesus meant in saying "I and the Father are One" (John 10:30). Since you agree with context, then reading verses 31-33 or the rest of the chapter, provides the answer for you.

Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him. Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me? The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God. John 10:31-33 KJV

Christ4Ever:

Unless you can get around the fact that Jesus used the same word "one" when he prayed to the Almighty God at John 17:21, in that case John 10:31-33 (and everything else in the book of John) will not help you. Remember, the Bible does not contradict itself. Notice how the Contemporary English Version of the Bible renders John 17:21, and this is Jesus praying to Jehovah the father.

Contemporary English Version
"I want all of them to be one with each other, just as I am one with you and you are one with me. I also want them to be one with us. Then the people of this world will believe that you sent me." (John 17:21)


See that? And I'm quoting from the same Bible book of John where Jesus said at John 10:30 "I and the Father are One." The context to John 10:30 tells us "one" is not the digit number 1 because dozens of disciples would not become a single human being when Jesus asked his heavenly father in prayer that his disciples should all be one. The context at John 17:21 is with reference to unity of purpose or being in agreement .


John 10:31-33 that you are relying on says the following, and this time I will quote from Holman Bible.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
"[31] Again the Jews picked up rocks to stone Him. [32] Jesus replied, “I have shown you many good works from the Father. Which of these works are you stoning Me for?" [33] "We aren’t stoning You for a good work,” the Jews answered, “but for blasphemy, because You—being a man—make Yourself God.”" (John 10:31-33)


Here's your problem with relying on the words of those particular Jews who, by this point, were rebelling against Almighty God. You are relying on the twisted reasoning of people who killed their own Messiah to prove your point that Jesus is in a Trinity with the Father. Jesus never said he was God. That's what THEY claimed he was saying. In fact, Jesus contradicted them at John 10:36, as follows:


English Standard Version
"do you say of him whom the Father consecrated and sent into the world, ‘You are blaspheming,’ because I said, ‘I am the Son of God’?"


See that? Jesus reiterated to his accusers that he said he is God's son. Remember, these are the same rebellious Jews that wanted to kill Lazarus after Jesus resurrected Lazarus, because they viewed Lazarus' resurrection as a threat to their power structure when people began putting faith in Jesus due to Lazarus' resurrection.

John 12:9​

"Meanwhile, a large crowd of Jews got to know that he was there, and they came not only because of Jesus but also to see Lazʹa·rus, whom he had raised up from the dead.

John 12:10​

"The chief priests now conspired to kill Lazʹa·rus also,

John 12:11​

"since it was because of him that many of the Jews were going there and putting faith in Jesus."


Alter2Ego

 

[Searchingtoo]

Christ4Ever:

Unless you can get around the fact that Jesus used the same word "one" when he prayed to the Almighty God at John 17:21, in that case John 10:31-33 (and everything else in the book of John) will not help you. Remember, the Bible does not contradict itself. Notice how the Contemporary English Version of the Bible renders John 17:21, and this is Jesus praying to Jehovah the father.

Contemporary English Version
"I want all of them to be one with each other, just as I am one with you and you are one with me. I also want them to be one with us. Then the people of this world will believe that you sent me." (John 17:21)


See that? And I'm quoting from the same Bible book of John where Jesus said at John 10:30 "I and the Father are One." The context to John 10:30 tells us "one" is not the digit number 1 because dozens of disciples would not become a single human being when Jesus asked his heavenly father in prayer that his disciples should all be one. The context at John 17:21 is with reference to unity of purpose or being in agreement .


John 10:31-33 that you are relying on says the following, and this time I will quote from Holman Bible.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
"[31] Again the Jews picked up rocks to stone Him. [32] Jesus replied, “I have shown you many good works from the Father. Which of these works are you stoning Me for?" [33] "We aren’t stoning You for a good work,” the Jews answered, “but for blasphemy, because You—being a man—make Yourself God.”" (John 10:31-33)


Here's your problem with relying on the words of those particular Jews who, by this point, were rebelling against Almighty God. You are relying on the twisted reasoning of people who killed their own Messiah to prove your point that Jesus is in a Trinity with the Father. Jesus never said he was God. That's what THEY claimed he was saying. In fact, Jesus contradicted them at John 10:36, as follows:


English Standard Version
"do you say of him whom the Father consecrated and sent into the world, ‘You are blaspheming,’ because I said, ‘I am the Son of God’?"


See that? Jesus reiterated to his accusers that he said he is God's son. Remember, these are the same rebellious Jews that wanted to kill Lazarus after Jesus resurrected Lazarus, because they viewed Lazarus' resurrection as a threat to their power structure when people began putting faith in Jesus due to Lazarus' resurrection.

John 12:9​

"Meanwhile, a large crowd of Jews got to know that he was there, and they came not only because of Jesus but also to see Lazʹa·rus, whom he had raised up from the dead.

John 12:10​

"The chief priests now conspired to kill Lazʹa·rus also,

John 12:11​

"since it was because of him that many of the Jews were going there and putting faith in Jesus."


Alter2Ego

Did any of the moderators threaten to throw you off here for showing that Jesus is not God yet? I was forbid to discuss it here or be thrown off.

 

[EverlastingWinter]

3 naturally.

 

[Alter2Ego]

Did any of the moderators threaten to throw you off here for showing that Jesus is not God yet? I was forbid to discuss it here or be thrown off.

Searchingtoo:

That's unfortunate. It's not me they're rejecting; it's God's inspired word that's being rejected because I backed up everything with scripture, and the Bible does not contradict itself.

I'll be more than happy to discuss this topic with anyone via private message, with the understanding that the Bible must be the final authority. That said, I will remove myself from this thread since Trinity is such a touchy subject on this forum.

Alter2Ego

 

[Rhema]

The exact phrase "Son of God" is used over 40 times in the New Testament.

And it means just that, and no more.

Rhema
Or are you going beyond what is written?

 

[Rhema]

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 1:1 The Pattern (λογος) was suffused throughout the cosmic protoplasm, and the Pattern was only of the Divine Good, and Sovereign is the Pattern.

( I decided to read what was written, and not rely on the poor scholarship of other translators. But I understand why other people do so.)

Rhema