Lazarus and the Rich man...

[Garee]

Thank you for clarifying. However, your stated views on how one is saved doesn't include baptism. So if Presbyterians can be saved, then wouldn't you think Baptism a moot point?

Rhema

All who do not look to the foundation of the doctrine of "Baptism" formed in the old testament. In the end of the matter destroy the foundation.

Psalm 11:3 If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do?

The Holy Spirit is not H20. (the things seen )

Deuteronomy 32:2 My doctrine shall drop as the rain, my speech shall distil as the dew, as the small rain upon the tender herb, and as the showers upon the grass:


Aarons two sons (two to represents the one witness of God ) performed the ceremonial washing used to represent those washed by the word of God called the water of the living Word . Which simply are the doctrines that do fall like rain, dew, or showers therefore softening our hard hearts.

The same warning applies today. No personals touch as in . . I did it it proves I have the Holy Spirit .Strange fire as a form of judgement comes in many forms that deny the foundation by adding things to it.

Leviticus 10.10 1-2 And Nadab and Abihu, the sons of Aaron, took either of them his censer, and put fire therein, and put incense thereon, and offered strange fire before the Lord, which he commanded them not. And there went out fire from the Lord, and devoured them, and they died before the Lord. Then Moses said unto Aaron, This is it that the Lord spake, saying, I will be sanctified in them that come nigh me, and before all the people I will be glorified. And Aaron held his peace.

 

[Sue D.]

We're in the new Testament . Baptism by immersion is to show outwardly the decision that has already taken place in our heart.

 

[Rhema]

The passages I previously shared tells what is needed 'to be saved' it is God's Word to everyone.

Is the Lord's prayer sufficient unto salvation? (or not...)

Rhema

 

[Rhema]

Psalm 11:3 If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do?

For they have pulled down what thou didst frame, but what has the righteous done?
(Psalms 11:3 Brenton)

 

[Rhema]

We're in the new Testament . Baptism by immersion is to show outwardly the decision that has already taken place in our heart.

So then your parents rejected the Presbyterians and embraced the Baptists based upon something that truly makes no difference. (??)

Paul ultimately rejected the Baptism that Peter preached:

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and (then) ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.​

(Acts 2:38 KJV+)​

Rhema

 

[Sue D.]

Rhema -- in that verse repentance comes first and then baptism.

 

[Sue D.]

So then your parents rejected the Presbyterians and embraced the Baptists based upon something that truly makes no difference. (??)

Paul ultimately rejected the Baptism that Peter preached:

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and (then) ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.​

(Acts 2:38 KJV+)​

Rhema

Baptism by immersion is seen in scripture, whereas sprinkling is not.

An infant has no decision-making ability other than feeling discomfort due to being hungry or being tires or needing diapers changed and crying to make those needs known.

The Lord's Prayer is a wonderful prayer. But it's not establishing a personal relationship with God through Jesus Christ. Our praying is our talking to God.
Look at Philippians 4:6-7.

 

[Garee]

So then your parents rejected the Presbyterians and embraced the Baptists based upon something that truly makes no difference. (??)

Paul ultimately rejected the Baptism that Peter preached:

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and (then) ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.​

(Acts 2:38 KJV+)​

Rhema

To be baptized in the name or power of the Holy Spirit has nothing to do with H20 The h20 Baptism had to do with entering the priesthood of all believers as a shadow of the true. The object of the discussion in John 3:25

It was passed on to the gentiles at the time of the first century reformation.

Getting is evidence someone got wet is not s a sign a person has received the power of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Hitch]

We're in the new Testament . Baptism by immersion is to show outwardly the decision that has already taken place in our heart.

Baptism by immersion
Chapter and verse please.

 

[Rhema]

The Lord's Prayer is a wonderful prayer. But it's not establishing a personal relationship with God through Jesus Christ. Our praying is our talking to God.

So talking to God is not personal ??

And talking to God through a prayer given to you by Jesus isn't part of having a personal relationship with God through Jesus Christ ??

How on earth could one belittle the Lord's Prayer by dismissing it as "wonderful ... BUT" ??

Jesus himself is teaching you how to pray. What, do you just wing it?

You and I, we're talking here - how is that not establishing a personal relationship ??

(The relationship might be a bit rancorous, but it's still a personal relationship.)

Rhema

Then again, you didn't answer the question (again).

Is the Lord's prayer sufficient unto salvation? (or not...)

 

[Rhema]

Baptism by immersion
Chapter and verse please.

Thanks, I was going to let that slide, but it is an important point.

Rhema

 

[Sue D.]

Doesn't the word 'baptiso' that's from memory - mean total immersion. The great commission in Matthew 28: 19 - 20. 'making disciples of and baptizing them in the new of the fFather and the Son and the Holy Spirit.

Jesus Christ was not sprinkled by John , He was baptized. he did not have to be baptized as a result of being saved. He was the One who died for us and was buried - was wrapped and then rose again. That is what our baptism symbolizes.

 

[Sue D.]

@ hitch. - I'm not ignoring the John 6 passage. I'll get back to it later. I'm getting ready to go to church.

 

[Garee]

Is the Lord's prayer sufficient unto salvation? (or not...)

Rhema

Hearing God is a work of God . If he does not first and foremost give us ears to hear His understanding. No man could seek after him who alone causes a increase if any.

As apostles we cam plant the incorruptible seed of the gospel and others water it with the water of the word (the doctrines of God that fall like rain) .But again if he does not personally apply his power to both reveal his will and empower us to perform it . A person can get wet and recite the Lord prayer over and over in vanity .


1 Corinthians 3:5-7King James Version Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man?I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase. So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.

 

[Hitch]

Doesn't the word 'baptiso' that's from memory - mean total immersion. The great commission in Matthew 28: 19 - 20. 'making disciples of and baptizing them in the new of the fFather and the Son and the Holy Spirit.

Jesus Christ was not sprinkled by John , He was baptized. he did not have to be baptized as a result of being saved. He was the One who died for us and was buried - was wrapped and then rose again. That is what our baptism symbolizes.

It is a Greek term used to describe existing Hebrew practices. the same term is used for ceremonial washing before eating, they wash up to the elbows, immersion is not required. However to tan hides they were immersed theres your Greek term again ,hanging on a rope or a pole . We dont do that either.

Jesus Christ was not sprinkled by John

Prove it.

 

[Rhema]

Doesn't the word 'baptiso' that's from memory - mean total immersion.

There are two verbs, "Bapto (βάπτω G911) and Baptizo (βαπτίζω G907 - the most commonly used word)

I provide the links to the Liddell Scott Lexicon for your edification -

Bapto G911 LINK

Baptizo G907 LINK

Entry 5 of the Cambridge Greek Lexicon states - "wash ritually (before a meal)"
Entry 6 - ritually immerse, baptise (British spelling)

The word is also used to describe the immersion of cloth into a dying vat, and you'll note that both entries in the Liddell Scott use the word "dip."

The word Baptizo (G907) is used in the LXX only twice:

Then went he down, and dipped himself seven times in Jordan, according to the saying of the man of God: and his flesh came again like unto the flesh of a little child, and he was clean.​

(2 Kings 5:14 KJV)​

There is no indication here whether Naiman's head went under or not, but he was commanded to "wash" in verse 10.

My heart wanders, and transgression overwhelms ("baptizes") me; my soul is occupied with fear.​

(Isaiah 21:4 Brenton)​

At this point, one may be only able to resolve this issue by referring to the documents and practices of the early Church Fathers.

Rhema

 

[Garee]

It is a Greek term used to describe existing Hebrew practices. the same term is used for ceremonial washisng before eating, they wash up to the elbows, immersion is not required.

Jesus Christ was not sprinkled by John

Prove it.

Water is water .It resents the unseen Holy Spirit. Whether to sprinkle or immerse it evaporates without fail .The Holy Spirt does not. it fills from with in a new born again heart

There are two verbs, "Bapto (βάπτω G911) and Baptizo (βαπτίζω G907 - the most commonly used word)

I provide the links to the Liddell Scott Lexicon for your edification -

Bapto G911 LINK

Baptizo G907 LINK

Entry 5 of the Cambridge Greek Lexicon states - "wash ritually (before a meal)"
Entry 6 - ritually immerse, baptise (British spelling)

The word is also used to describe the immersion of cloth into a dying vat, and you'll note that both entries in the Liddell Scott use the word "dip."

The word Baptizo (G907) is used in the LXX only twice:

Then went he down, and dipped himself seven times in Jordan, according to the saying of the man of God: and his flesh came again like unto the flesh of a little child, and he was clean.​

(2 Kings 5:14 KJV)​

There is no indication here whether Naiman's head went under or not, but he was commanded to "wash" in verse 10.

My heart wanders, and transgression overwhelms ("baptizes") me; my soul is occupied with fear.​

(Isaiah 21:4 Brenton)​

At this point, one may be only able to resolve this issue by referring to the documents and practices of the early Church Fathers.

Rhema

Getting wet whether sprinkled or submerged proves nothing it is a shadow of the unseen Holy Spirit .

A person must begin in the foundation of the doctrine. Leviticus 10. An how the words strange fire (self edifying) is used. The ceremonial law is transferred over to the new kingdom of Priest .

The Lord said he would be sanctified and not those who perform the ceremony (Charismatics I did it, it proves it . . .strange fire

Leveitucaus 10:1-3 And Nadab and Abihu, the sons of Aaron, took either of them his censer, and put fire therein, and put incense thereon, and offered strange fire before the Lord, which he commanded them not. And there went out fire from the Lord, and devoured them, and they died before the Lord. Then Moses said unto Aaron, This is it that the Lord spake, saying, I will be sanctified in them that come nigh me, and before all the people I will be glorified. And Aaron held his peace.

 

[Hitch]

Water is water .It resents the unseen Holy Spirit. Whether to sprinkle or immerse it evaporates without fail .The Holy Spirt does not. it fills from with in a new born again heart



Getting wet whether sprinkled or submerged proves nothing it is a shadow of the unseen Holy Spirit .

A person must begin in the foundation of the doctrine. Leviticus 10. An how the words strange fire (self edifying) is used. The ceremonial law is transferred over to the new kingdom of Priest .

The Lord said he would be sanctified and not those who perform the ceremony (Charismatics I did it, it proves it . . .strange fire

Leveitucaus 10:1-3 And Nadab and Abihu, the sons of Aaron, took either of them his censer, and put fire therein, and put incense thereon, and offered strange fire before the Lord, which he commanded them not. And there went out fire from the Lord, and devoured them, and they died before the Lord. Then Moses said unto Aaron, This is it that the Lord spake, saying, I will be sanctified in them that come nigh me, and before all the people I will be glorified. And Aaron held his peace.

I think thats one of the main points G. Jesus didnt baptize Paul, not much ,and there is no firm indication of methodology. so we should be careful not to make too much of the method as as well.

 

[Hitch]

Should we make much for sprinkles or dunks when looking back we see God baptizing the entire nation AND those of Egypt who joined with them and not even getting them wet.?

 

[Rhema]

Jesus didnt baptize

And yet, Jesus did baptize.

After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized.​

(John 3:22 KJV)​

Thanks,
Rhema