Hi Paul,
2-marriage-requires covenant (vows) and a ceremony. I would have thought that covenant vows are spoken by all lovers who intend to spend their lives together in marriage. And would God need a ceremony when he is within us officiating on the union in person.
3- marriage- begins when a man and woman have sex. The act of sex, is not a marriage in the Godly sense, but when performed in conjunction with the covenant and the ceremony within, that God officiates at it is.
This most likely won't be accepted by the legalists on these boards, but if a piece of paper and vows made before a vicar who a) is probably a borderline believer and b) who's heart is likely not in it, then so be it. My first marriage, the one most Christians would be pleased to accept, took place in a registry office, and I remember thinking, as I stood there; what the h*** am I doing here. When I first saw Helen, I knew instantly, it was forever and so far we've been together for over fifty three years. Pam and I lasted five.
Hi Trevor,
In the OT there are a few examples of what you say, but I cannot help but wonder, What did or would Jesus say? What does the NT say?
We are under the new covenant, a new covenant is a new law.
I don't want to be a legalist, there is nothing personal in the study, I have sinned also, the reason for this separate thread was to look at the options together, and keep it as a study together, the last thread was to personal due to comments in that thread.
So, I think, the Big Question is, 'What does the NT say about sex, marriage and sexual sins?'
Here are a few scriptures I have found, please everyone include as many NT scriptures on the subject as possible.
Firstly we note that there are no Hebrew or Greek words used in the Bible that precisely refers to sex before marriage. That covers the whole Bible so I thought it best to include that at the start.
The Bible without doubt condemns adultery and sexual immorality, but is sex before marriage considered sexually immoral? I guess that depends on whether we follow the OT examples of when a man and woman have sex they are immediately married, but lets continue, I do not know where this is going, may the Spirit guides us my friend.
As it is so important to read in context, I have included full sections to avoid any mis interpretation. But to help I have highlighted the parts that refer to sexual immorality. I therefore apologise now for the length of this post, but it does keep all scriptures together, that has to be an advantage for us all.
According to this verse the answer is 'Yes'
1 Corinthians 7:2 (NIV2011)
2 But since
sexual immorality is occurring, each man should have sexual relations with his own wife, and each woman with her own husband.
1 Corinthians 7:2 (CJB)
2 Well, because of the danger of
sexual immorality, let each man have his own wife and each woman her own husband.
1 Corinthians 7:2 (NJB)
2 yet to avoid
immorality every man should have his own wife and every woman her own husband.
1 Corinthians 7:1-16 (NKJV)
1 Now concerning the things of which you wrote to me:
It is good for a man not to touch a woman.
2 Nevertheless, because of
sexual immorality, let each man have his own wife, and let each woman have her own husband.
3 Let the husband render to his wife the affection due her, and likewise also the wife to her husband.
4 The wife does not have authority over her own body, but the husband
does. And likewise the husband does not have authority over his own body, but the wife
does.
5 Do not deprive one another except with consent for a time, that you may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again so that Satan does not tempt you because of your lack of self-control.
6 But I say this as a concession, not as a commandment.
7 For I wish that all men were even as I myself. But each one has his own gift from God, one in this manner and another in that.
8 But I say to the unmarried and to the widows: It is good for them if they remain even as I am;
9 but if they cannot exercise self-control, let them marry. For it is better to marry than to burn
with passion.
10 Now to the married I command,
yet not I but the Lord: A wife is not to depart from
her husband.
11 But even if she does depart, let her remain unmarried or be reconciled to
her husband. And a husband is not to divorce
his wife.
12 But to the rest I, not the Lord, say: If any brother has a wife who does not believe, and she is willing to live with him, let him not divorce her.
13 And a woman who has a husband who does not believe, if he is willing to live with her, let her not divorce him.
14 For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband; otherwise your children would be unclean, but now they are holy.
15 But if the unbeliever departs, let him depart; a brother or a sister is not under bondage in such
cases. But God has called us to peace.
16 For how do you know, O wife, whether you will save
your husband? Or how do you know, O husband, whether you will save
your wife?
Sexual Immorality is translated from the word
Porneia
Greek Strong's Number: 4202
Greek Word: πορνεία
Transliteration: porneia
Phonetic Pronunciation: por-ni'-ah
Vine's Words: Fornication, Fornicator
English Words used in KJV:
fornication 26 (All in the NT)
from
<G4203> (porneuo); harlotry (including adultery and incest); figurative idolatry :- fornication.
Strong's Talking Greek & Hebrew Dictionary.
In this verse, Paul is stating that marriage is the “cure” for sexual immorality.
1 Cor 7:2, is saying that, because people cannot control themselves and so many are having immoral sex outside of marriage, people should get married. Then they can fulfill their passions in a moral way.
Because 1 Cor 7:2 clearly includes sex before marriage in the definition of sexual immorality, all of the Bible verses that condemn sexual immorality as being sinful also condemn sex before marriage as sinful.
Sex before marriage is included in the biblical definition of sexual immorality.
There are numerous Scriptures that declare sex before marriage to be a sin
Acts 15:18-20 (NKJV)
18 "Known to God from eternity are all His works.
19 Therefore I judge that we should not trouble those from among the Gentiles who are turning to God,
20 but that we write to them
to abstain from things polluted by idols,
from sexual immorality,
from things strangled, and
from blood.
1 Corinthians 5:1-13 (NKJV)
1 It is actually reported
that there is sexual immorality among you, and such
sexual immorality as is not even named among the Gentiles--that a man has his father's wife!
2 And you are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he who has done this deed might be taken away from among you.
3 For I indeed, as absent in body but present in spirit, have already judged (as though I were present) him who has so done this deed.
4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when you are gathered together, along with my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,
5 deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
6 Your glorying
is not good. Do you not know that a little leaven leavens the whole lump?
7 Therefore purge out the old leaven, that you may be a new lump, since you truly are unleavened. For indeed Christ, our Passover, was sacrificed for us.
8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, nor with the leaven of malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened
bread of sincerity and truth.
9 I wrote to you in my epistle
not to keep company with sexually immoral people. [Sexually immoral brethren]
10 Yet
I certainly
did not
mean with the
sexually immoral people of this world, or with
the covetous, or
extortioners, or
idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world.
11 But now I have written to you
not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner--not even to eat with such a person.
12 For what
have I
to do with judging those also who are outside? Do you not judge those who are inside?
13
But those who are outside God judges. Therefore "put away from yourselves the evil person."
1 Corinthians 6:12-20 (NKJV)
12 All things are lawful for me, but all things are not helpful. All things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any.
13 Foods for the stomach and the stomach for foods, but God will destroy both it and them.
Now the body is not for sexual immorality but for the Lord, and the Lord for the body.
14 And God both raised up the Lord and will also raise us up by His power.
15 Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ? Shall I then take the members of Christ and make
them members of a harlot? Certainly not!
16 Or do you not know that he who is joined to a harlot is one body
with her? For
"the two," He says,
"shall become one flesh."
17 But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit
with Him.
18
Flee sexual immorality. Every sin that a man does is outside the body, but he who commits sexual immorality sins against his own body.
19 Or do you not know that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit
who is in you, whom you have from God, and you are not your own?
20 For you were bought at a price; therefore glorify God in your body and in your spirit, which are God's.
The NT is under the new covenant, a covenant is a law, therefore a new covenant is a new law, or set of laws.
In the OT the Jews did not have the Holy Spirit, He cam upon some but did not indwell them. So under the New Covenant, from the time of Jesus, things are sure to be different to what they were in the OT, we should therefore all ask ourselves, what would Jesus do, what did Jesus say, what does the NT say?
19 Or do you not know that
your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and you are not your own?
20 For you were bought at a price; therefore glorify God in your body and in your spirit, which are God's.
1 Corinthians 10:1-13 (NKJV)
1 Moreover, brethren, I do not want you to be unaware that all our fathers were under the cloud, all passed through the sea,
2 all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea,
3 all ate the same spiritual food,
4 and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them, and that Rock was Christ.
5 But with most of them God was not well pleased, for
their bodies were scattered in the wilderness.
6 Now these things became our examples, to the intent that we should not lust after evil things as they also lusted.
7 And do not become idolaters as
were some of them. As it is written,
"The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play."
8
Nor let us commit sexual immorality, as some of them did, and in one day twenty-three thousand fell;
9 nor let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed by serpents;
10 nor complain, as some of them also complained, and were destroyed by the destroyer.
11 Now all these things happened to them as examples, and they were written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the ages have come.
12 Therefore let him who thinks he stands take heed lest he fall.
13 No temptation has overtaken you except such as is common to man; but God
is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation will also make the way of escape, that you may be able to bear
it.
For anyone tempted to sexual immorality, there is a way out.
2 Corinthians 12:19-21 (NKJV)
19 Again, do you think that we excuse ourselves to you? We speak before God in Christ. But
we do all things, beloved, for your edification.
20 For I fear lest, when I come, I shall not find you such as I wish, and
that I shall be found by you such as you do not wish; lest
there be contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, backbitings, whisperings, conceits, tumults;
21 lest, when I come again, my God will humble me among you, and I shall mourn for many
who have sinned before and have not repented of the uncleanness, fornication, and lewdness which they have practiced.
Galatians 5:13-26 (NKJV)
13 For you, brethren, have been called to liberty; only do not
use liberty as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another.
14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word,
even in this:
"You shall love your neighbor as yourself."
15 But if you bite and devour one another, beware lest you be consumed by one another!
16 I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh.
17 For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish.
18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.
19
Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness,
20
idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies,
21
envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told
you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
23 gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law.
24 And those
who are Christ's have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.
25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
26 Let us not become conceited, provoking one another, envying one another.
Ephesians 5:1-21 (NKJV)
1 Therefore be imitators of God as dear children.
2 And walk in love, as Christ also has loved us and given Himself for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweet-smelling aroma.
3
But fornication and all uncleanness or covetousness, let it not even be named among you, as is fitting for saints;
4
neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor coarse jesting, which are not fitting, but rather giving of thanks.
5 For this you know,
that no fornicator, unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God.
6
Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience.
7 Therefore do not be partakers with them.
8 For you were once darkness, but now
you are light in the Lord. Walk as children of light
9 (for the fruit of the Spirit
is in all goodness, righteousness, and truth),
10 finding out what is acceptable to the Lord.
11
And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them.
12
For it is shameful even to speak of those things which are done by them in secret.
13 But all things that are exposed are made manifest by the light, for whatever makes manifest is light.
14 Therefore He says: "Awake, you who sleep, Arise from the dead, And Christ will give you light."
15 See then that you walk circumspectly, not as fools but as wise,
16 redeeming the time, because the days are evil.
17 Therefore do not be unwise, but understand what the will of the Lord
is.
18 And do not be drunk with wine, in which is dissipation; but be filled with the Spirit,
19 speaking to one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord,
20 giving thanks always for all things to God the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ,
21 submitting to one another in the fear of God.
Colossians 3:1-17 (NKJV)
1 If then you were raised with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ is, sitting at the right hand of God.
2 Set your mind on things above, not on things on the earth.
3 For you died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God.
4 When Christ
who is our life appears, then you also will appear with Him in glory.
5
Therefore put to death your members which are on the earth: fornication, uncleanness, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry.
6
Because of these things the wrath of God is coming upon the sons of disobedience,
7 in which you yourselves once walked when you lived in them.
8 But now you yourselves are to put off all these: anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy language out of your mouth.
9 Do not lie to one another, since you have put off the old man with his deeds,
10 and have put on the new
man who is renewed in knowledge according to the image of Him who created him,
11 where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcised nor uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave
nor free, but Christ
is all and in all.
12 Therefore, as
the elect of God, holy and beloved, put on tender mercies, kindness, humility, meekness, longsuffering;
13 bearing with one another, and forgiving one another, if anyone has a complaint against another; even as Christ forgave you, so you also
must do.
14 But above all these things put on love, which is the bond of perfection.
15 And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to which also you were called in one body; and be thankful.
16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom, teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.
17 And
whatever you do in word or deed,
do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through Him.
1 Thessalonians 4:1-12 (NKJV)
1 Finally then, brethren, we urge and exhort in the Lord Jesus that you should abound more and more, just as you received from us how you ought to walk and to please God;
2 for you know what commandments we gave you through the Lord Jesus.
3
For this is the will of God, your sanctification: that you should abstain from sexual immorality;
4 that each of you should know how to possess his own vessel in sanctification and honor,
5 not in passion of lust, like the Gentiles who do not know God;
6 that no one should take advantage of and defraud his brother in this matter, because the Lord
is the avenger of all such, as we also forewarned you and testified.
7 For God did not call us to uncleanness, but in holiness.
8 Therefore he who rejects
this does not reject man, but God, who has also given us His Holy Spirit.
9 But concerning brotherly love you have no need that I should write to you, for you yourselves are taught by God to love one another;
10 and indeed you do so toward all the brethren who are in all Macedonia. But we urge you, brethren, that you increase more and more;
11 that you also aspire to lead a quiet life, to mind your own business, and to work with your own hands, as we commanded you,
12 that you may walk properly toward those who are outside, and
that you may lack nothing.
Jude 1:1-23 (NKJV)
1 Jude, a bondservant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, To those who are called, sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ:
2 Mercy, peace, and love be multiplied to you.
3 Beloved, while I was very diligent to write to you concerning our common salvation, I found it necessary to write to you exhorting you to contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints.
4 For certain men have crept in unnoticed, who long ago were marked out for this condemnation, ungodly men, who turn the grace of our God into lewdness and deny the only Lord God and our Lord Jesus Christ.
5 But I want to remind you, though you once knew this, that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe.
6 And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day;
7
as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.
8 Likewise also these dreamers defile the flesh, reject authority, and speak evil of dignitaries.
9 Yet Michael the archangel, in contending with the devil, when he disputed about the body of Moses, dared not bring against him a reviling accusation, but said, "The Lord rebuke you!"
10 But these speak evil of whatever they do not know; and whatever they know naturally, like brute beasts, in these things they corrupt themselves.
11 Woe to them! For they have gone in the way of Cain, have run greedily in the error of Balaam for profit, and perished in the rebellion of Korah.
12 These are spots in your love feasts, while they feast with you without fear, serving
only themselves.
They are clouds without water, carried about by the winds; late autumn trees without fruit, twice dead, pulled up by the roots;
13 raging waves of the sea, foaming up their own shame; wandering stars for whom is reserved the blackness of darkness forever.
14 Now Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about these men also, saying, "Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of His saints,
15 to execute judgment on all, to convict all who are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have committed in an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him."
16 These are grumblers, complainers, walking according to their own lusts; and they mouth great swelling
words, flattering people to gain advantage.
17 But you, beloved, remember the words which were spoken before by the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ:
18 how they told you that there would be mockers in the last time who would walk according to their own ungodly lusts.
19 These are sensual persons, who cause divisions, not having the Spirit.
20 But you, beloved, building yourselves up on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Spirit,
21 keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.
22 And on some have compassion, making a distinction;
23 but others save with fear, pulling
them out of the fire, hating even the garment defiled by the flesh.
SO WHAT DOES THIS TELLS US?
1 Corinthians 7:1-2 (NKJV)
1 Now concerning the things of which you wrote to me:
It is good for a man not to touch a woman.
2 Nevertheless, because of
sexual immorality, let each man have his own wife, and
let each woman have her own husband.
A man should NOT touch a woman (sexually)
Sex before marriage is immoral
Let each man have his own wife, therefore he has to have a wife to have sex with her, therefore they have to be married.
NOTE:
The word for Sexual Immorality is translated from the word
Porneia
Which is where our word
PORN comes from
Greek Strong's Number: 4202
(porneuo); harlotry (including adultery and incest); figurative idolatry :- fornication.
1 Cor 7:2, is saying that, because people cannot control themselves and so many are
having immoral sex outside of marriage, people should get married. Then they can fulfill their passions in a moral way.
Because
1 Cor 7:2 clearly includes
sex before marriage in the definition of
sexual immorality...
all of the Bible verses that condemn sexual immorality as being sinful also condemn sex before marriage as sinful.
Sex before marriage is included in the biblical definition of sexual immorality.
Galatians 5:19-21
19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are:
adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness,
20
idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies,
21
envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like;
All these are in the same sin category... which is as idolatry
Col 3:5-6
5
Therefore put to death your members which are on the earth: fornication, uncleanness, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry.
6 Because of these things the wrath of God is coming upon the sons of disobedience,
THERE ARE I BELIEVE 2 THINGS TO CONSIDER BEFORE ANY OF THE ABOVE.
Based on the above.....
1 - We are under the new covenant, a new covenant is a new law. We are not under OT Law on any item that is referred to in the New Testament and is different to what happened in the OT.
2 - If we have committed sin, if we have had sex before marriage, was it before we came to the Lord and became born again from above or after we were saved?
a) If we sinned before coming to Christ, if we had sex before marriage before coming to Christ, all our sins were wiped away the second we submitted to Jesus and was saved.
b) If we sinned after coming to Christ, if we had sex after coming to Christ, we have sinned and need to repent.
i) If we have touched a woman and were not married we have sinned. (Consider options b also)
ii) If we have looked at another person of the opposite sex and had sexual thoughts, we have already committed the act in our heart (Consider b also)
Who has not sinned, there is not one, not one.
I look forward to comments from our dear brothers and sisters in Christ.
Shalom
