Martin Luther on Faith

[Curtis]

So do you think that Moses really cast down a rod before Pharaoh and it became a serpent. So am I faithless because I no longer believe it is true?

Brother, Faith is not a all encompassing thing! You can have faith in your salvation, but have no faith at all for God to bring healing to your body. You can have faith in some areas and none in others. Faith comes from each and every promise that God has given to his Church. Each promise gives it own faith to bring to pass. There are many in the Church who have saving faith, but are missing out on the blessings which other promises give because of not having faith to experience them.

 

[TaylorDonBarret]

I am sorry @TaylorDonBarret but you just can't cherry pick scripture. Besides being common theology, I showed yo two verses that say the opposite, but of course you won't acknowledge those. Look further at what James said: 23 And the scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,"!
Belief is a spiritual act, of which God can only accept and not physical works of man.
You believe in salvation by works and I by faith!

i am not the one cherry picking scripture.

"But someone may well say, “You have faith and I have works; show me your faith without the works, and I will show you my faith by my works.” You believe that God is one. You do well; the demons also believe, and shudder. But are you willing to recognize, you foolish fellow, that faith without works is useless? Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up Isaac his son on the altar? You see that faith was working with his works, and as a result of the works, faith was perfected; and the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “And Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness,” and he was called the friend of God. You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone."
James 2:18-24


You see, both faith and works are gifts from God. we must believe and we must work, and we can do neither without the grace of God. But we must do both nonetheless.

 

[RJ]

You see, both faith and works are gifts from God. we must believe and we must work

This is it in a nutshell @TaylorDonBarret and I am sorry for pounding back at and which you simple refuse to acknowledge and for why I don't know.

• You are right faith and works are a gift of God as he gives the faith and it is his works through you, not YOUR works; that is the fundamental difference between us, You have this drive to accept some of the glory yourself, but he deserves All the glory...all of him and none of you!
• we must believe and we must work.........You're hung up on your own works.....You will believe and you have no works of your own!

 

[TaylorDonBarret]

you keep accusing me of sin, i think you are projecting.
i have said nothing but what scripture says.

"But someone may well say, “You have faith and I have works; show me your faith without the works, and I will show you my faith by my works.” You believe that God is one. You do well; the demons also believe, and shudder. But are you willing to recognize, you foolish fellow, that faith without works is useless? Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up Isaac his son on the altar? You see that faith was working with his works, and as a result of the works, faith was perfected; and the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “And Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness,” and he was called the friend of God. You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone."
James 2:18-24

 

[WaterRock]

So do you think that Moses really cast down a rod before Pharaoh and it became a serpent.

Could have but been but it still does not apply. Nothing mentionin

And Moses and Aaron went in unto Pharaoh, and they did so as the LORD had commanded: and Aaron cast down his rod before Pharaoh, and before his servants, and it became a serpent. Ex 7:10

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

And Moses and Aaron went in unto Pharaoh, and they did so as the LORD had commanded: and Aaron cast down his rod before Pharaoh, and before his servants, and it became a serpent. Ex 7:10

I do not ever remember replying with waht you quoted of mine as to what you have above it.

 

[WaterRock]

That's the renewing....

 

[Travis]

Travis I have no clue where you get your information but it as well as your attitude is poor. I rebuke you brother in front of all of the people here for you slander of Gods servants especially when you have no clue what you are saying. You dont have all the answers brother.......

I don't feel like that's a very fair assumption to make about me...

I tend to back everything I say up. So if you have something in particular you have that you think I am wrong about, please tell me. I would like to hear your thoughts on the passage I brought up though.

Thanks,

Travis

 

[RJ]

you keep accusing me of sin, i think you are projecting.
i have said nothing but what scripture says.

Though we all sin and fall short of the glory of God, this is a total untruth, I have never said or even come close to saying that about you! If you feel this way, then I say you must search your own heart; I will always contend that this determination is between you and God alone. As far as, I am concerned, you seem to profess salvation by your own works and I believe salvation is by God and faith alone. You have resorted to throwing out false accusations over this subject and I am done. God Bless you and your future spiritual growth!

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

I don't feel like that's a very fair assumption to make about me...

I tend to back everything I say up. So if you have something in particular you have that you think I am wrong about, please tell me. I would like to hear your thoughts on the passage I brought up though.

Thanks,

Travis

Go back to where I posted this. See your words. There you will find your answer.

 

[Travis]

Go back to where I posted this. See your words. There you will find your answer.

I'm confused...

You are going to just have to be very simple with me I guess. I don't understand, what you are getting at. Sorry, I'm slow on the uptake.

So what is wrong with my use of those verses about how not everyone has faith?

Thanks,

Travis

 

[Travis]

The point is this:

The whole of the scriptures teach that we are saved by grace through faith.

Faith is the source of repentance. No one truly repents, the kind of repentance that leads to salvation, without having faith. One does not receive faith by first repenting though. Faith is pre-eminent.
Faith is the source of good works. Without faith it is impossible to please God. So those who do 'good works' but have no faith are not the least bit pleasing to God, their hearts are not right. True faith always demonstrates and proves itself through works.

Faith is a work of God, and it is given by God.

There is much room to tell people to do certain things besides just saying "have faith!" People are commanded to repent, to turn from sin. We are even told to baptize people in water. We are commanded to obey. We are told many things. But we can't forget, that behind it all lies faith, alive and active. No one earns their own salvation. Salvation is a gift of God.

Blessings,

Travis

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

The point is this:

The whole of the scriptures teach that we are saved by grace through faith.

Faith is the source of repentance. No one truly repents, the kind of repentance that leads to salvation, without having faith. One does not receive faith by first repenting though. Faith is pre-eminent.
Faith is the source of good works. Without faith it is impossible to please God. So those who do 'good works' but have no faith are not the least bit pleasing to God, their hearts are not right. True faith always demonstrates and proves itself through works.

Faith is a work of God, and it is given by God.

There is much room to tell people to do certain things besides just saying "have faith!" People are commanded to repent, to turn from sin. We are even told to baptize people in water. We are commanded to obey. We are told many things. But we can't forget, that behind it all lies faith, alive and active. No one earns their own salvation. Salvation is a gift of God.

Blessings,

Travis

The whole of the scriptures teach that we are saved by grace through faith.

Faith is the source of repentance. No one truly repents, the kind of repentance that leads to salvation, without having faith. One does not receive faith by first repenting though. Faith is pre-eminent
So by ths I have to have faith to know I am a sinner or to know that I missed it or am doing things not worthy unto God ?
No Brother one repents, ( turns from the direction they are going - turns to God - decides to do it Gods way ) You do not need faith to know you are living wrongly. Nor do you need Faith to repent but perhaps you meant to say we place faith and hope in God and His word when we get saved, such as trusting and believing that John 3:16 or Romans 10:13 will truly get us right with God.

Faith is the source of good works. Without faith it is impossible to please God. So those who do 'good works' but have no faith are not the least bit pleasing to God, their hearts are not right. True faith always demonstrates and proves itself through works.
Faith is the substance of things hoped for but yet not seen....Faith is an action word....meaning Faith is always followed by an action. Via words or deeds and so forth. Believing with your words or confession is an action of faith. With out Love and forgiveness faith is not complete nor will it produce the results you want.

Faith is a work of God, and it is given by God.
Yes God places a measure of faith in every beleiver and we must build on it.

There is much room to tell people to do certain things besides just saying "have faith!" People are commanded to repent, to turn from sin. We are even told to baptize people in water. We are commanded to obey. We are told many things. But we can't forget, that behind it all lies faith, alive and active. No one earns their own salvation. Salvation is a gift of God.
Very true salvation is a gift from God. It's through His grace or unmerited favor that we have this free gift of salvation.
Faith is alive and active and yet we must build up our faith. Without walking in Love and forgivness your faith is not doing you much good. One can have faith and not walk in Gods love or ways and his faith is weak. Your words and actions also reflect how strong your faith is AND what kind of results you will see. Words are deeds. Doubt and unbelief and fear are works too brother and the amount of doubt and unbelief or fear that is in you will determine how strong your faith is.

Blessings
Jim

 

[RJ]

The point is this:

The whole of the scriptures teach that we are saved by grace through faith.

Faith is the source of repentance. No one truly repents, the kind of repentance that leads to salvation, without having faith. One does not receive faith by first repenting though. Faith is pre-eminent.
Faith is the source of good works. Without faith it is impossible to please God. So those who do 'good works' but have no faith are not the least bit pleasing to God, their hearts are not right. True faith always demonstrates and proves itself through works.

Faith is a work of God, and it is given by God.

There is much room to tell people to do certain things besides just saying "have faith!" People are commanded to repent, to turn from sin. We are even told to baptize people in water. We are commanded to obey. We are told many things. But we can't forget, that behind it all lies faith, alive and active. No one earns their own salvation. Salvation is a gift of God.

Blessings,

Travis

Good stuff!!! Grace > Faith > Repentance > Born Again salvation. Those that disagree are blind, they just don't see it is done all by God, salvation is all of him and none of us; It can only be that God get's all the glory. This sequence may vary in time I guess, but what I have seen, including me, it can happen instantaneously, which confuses some!

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

I don't feel like that's a very fair assumption to make about me...

I tend to back everything I say up. So if you have something in particular you have that you think I am wrong about, please tell me. I would like to hear your thoughts on the passage I brought up though.

Thanks,

Travis

Travis said.................
I've heard quite otherwise:

More than years after it appeared, we still continue to hear that the Joint Declaration on the Doctrine of Justification was a “breakthrough” between the Roman Catholic Church and the Lutheran Church. The media loves to perpetuate this myth. In fact, the Joint Declaration on the Doctrine of Justification is a fraud. It was a sell-out by revisionist liberal Lutherans to Rome. The Vatican certainly knows this is not true. Liberal Lutherans and those who support them keep repeating it, in spite of the fact that it is simply not true.
https://www.lutheransonline.com/lo/553/FSLO-1361564553-111553.pdf
Copeland also may have decided to climb in bed with the Pope. But, I'm not going to compromise and do so.


Then I replied................Travis I have no clue where you get your information but it as well as your attitude is poor. I rebuke you brother in front of all of the people here for you slander of Gods servants especially when you have no clue what you are saying. You dont have all the answers brother.......

Anything other then this does not belong in your questioning brother.............
Simple enough? lol......if you need to continue with this Travis then I guess we can but it will have to be later. My time is up for being online right now....
Blessings brother

 

[RJ]

Faith is the source of good works. Without faith it is impossible to please God. So those who do 'good works' but have no faith are not the least bit pleasing to God, their hearts are not right. True faith always demonstrates and proves itself through works.

He is the vine and we are the branches, without him we can do nothing. The works that are required for justification are only the works of God through us!

 

[Curtis]

It is possible to have "works" without faith, but it is impossible to have faith "without works".

 

[Travis]

Good stuff!!! Grace > Faith > Repentance > Born Again salvation. Those that disagree are blind, they just don't see it is done all by God, salvation is all of him and none of us; It can only be that God get's all the glory. This sequence may vary in time I guess, but what I have seen, including me, it can happen instantaneously, which confuses some!

From God's perspective, which he reveals to us in scripture, I believe it's really all about Him. Translating this into a real Christian experience may be hard to see quite clearly.

I'm not God, and I can't clearly see these things. So if someone doesn't agree with me 100% and chooses to see this from a more practical viewpoint, that we just plain choose to come to God, I don't think they are wrong. We certainly choose to come to God. You don't have to understand incredibly deep things to do so either. But, coming to a knowledge of and understanding of God's sovereignty is part of maturing in Christ.

There are many paradoxes in the scriptures and in the things that God teaches. Just because two things seem to contradict, doesn't mean they necessarily do, perhaps only that our understanding is lacking. If something we say contradicts scripture, then it cannot be true. Determining whether it really contradicts scripture may not always be easy though.

Blessings,

Travis

 

[RJ]

It is possible to have "works" without faith, but it is impossible to have faith "without works".

Are these your works or God's works through you?

 

[Travis]

Anything other then this does not belong in your questioning brother.............
Simple enough? lol......if you need to continue with this Travis then I guess we can but it will have to be later. My time is up for being online right now....

I think you are getting two separate things mixed up. I was talking to you about my quotation of:

2 Thessalonians 3
1 Finally, brothers, pray for us, that the word of the Lord may speed ahead and be honored, as happened among you, 2 and that we may be delivered from wicked and evil men. For not all have faith. 3 But the Lord is faithful. He will establish you and guard you against the evil one.​

Not what you are talking about. Though since you brought it up, you never really showed me anything to disprove what I said about how Lutherans and the RCC didn't resolve anything at all and are both still in a bunch of nonsense.