Martin Luther on Faith
- Thread starter Travis
- Start date
-
- Tags
- faith alone luther
RJ
Active
- Joined
- Jun 1, 2009
- Messages
- 4,080
Yep, and I would add, I never and would never say they are not saved, that is for God alone, but I did say they just don't understand. It is my personal experience, that when you turn it over and let God truly be sovereign, your perspective changes and you see all things in a different light!
Wired 4 Fishen
Loyal
- Joined
- Mar 19, 2015
- Messages
- 2,128
Wired 4 Fishen
Loyal
- Joined
- Mar 19, 2015
- Messages
- 2,128
I think you are getting two separate things mixed up. I was talking to you about my quotation of:
2 Thessalonians 3
1 Finally, brothers, pray for us, that the word of the Lord may speed ahead and be honored, as happened among you, 2 and that we may be delivered from wicked and evil men. For not all have faith. 3 But the Lord is faithful. He will establish you and guard you against the evil one.
Not what you are talking about. Though since you brought it up, you never really showed me anything to disprove what I said about how Lutherans and the RCC didn't resolve anything at all and are both still in a bunch of nonsense.
maybe you were but you quoted what i said to the other..........I only answer to what is quoted
Travis
Active
- Joined
- Aug 10, 2014
- Messages
- 815
It sounds to me like your just being difficult on purpose.....
Your choice.
Blessings,
Travis
Wired 4 Fishen
Loyal
- Joined
- Mar 19, 2015
- Messages
- 2,128
Travis what is your big problem here ? You quoted something I said to one thing you said and then use the quote on a different reply.
I showed you the correct statement my reply was to. Get over it.........move on.......
Travis
Active
- Joined
- Aug 10, 2014
- Messages
- 815
Well thanks for being the mature one here.
Sorry for acting so immaturely.
Won't happen again!
Travis
- Joined
- Jun 19, 2008
- Messages
- 5,748
I have just read this thread through, and what could be an interesting discussion is a snappy overheated touchy debate
Please keep to topic and if you can only post snappily don't post at all.
Take time to seek the Lord and His word
Please keep to topic and if you can only post snappily don't post at all.
Take time to seek the Lord and His word
Wired 4 Fishen
Loyal
- Joined
- Mar 19, 2015
- Messages
- 2,128
Martin Luther on Faith | Page 3 | Talk Jesus
This is the reply you sent me earlier today. The quote you listed went to another different and not the same as you wrote it on.
So I corrected you and showed you to where the quote actually went.........Anything else brother does not fit. If you have a different post in mind then send my origional quote with it and I will answer you.....
Blessings
This is the reply you sent me earlier today. The quote you listed went to another different and not the same as you wrote it on.
So I corrected you and showed you to where the quote actually went.........Anything else brother does not fit. If you have a different post in mind then send my origional quote with it and I will answer you.....
Blessings
Travis
Active
- Joined
- Aug 10, 2014
- Messages
- 815
My apologies,
Well, what are your thoughts on 2 Thessalonians 3 verse 2 specifically then?
Travis
Wired 4 Fishen
Loyal
- Joined
- Mar 19, 2015
- Messages
- 2,128
I 'll buy the first coffe you buy the second cause it looks like it's going to be a long night. LOL
Travis no problem and I am not mad. I just learned a long time ago when some one puts somethng some one said in reply to another simply leave it alone for it will only cause problems...That is why I would not reply to the other question.......
Now then let me go back and find where I replied to that question and I will reply to you here.
Whats the wheather like there now ?
blessings brother
Wired 4 Fishen
Loyal
- Joined
- Mar 19, 2015
- Messages
- 2,128
If I remember it had been said that not all Christians had faith, I said God puts a measure of faith in every one which I was still talking about believers.. The verses you quote here are simply saying that wicked men do not have faith. Well of course they do not have faih in Jesus or the word of God.
The problem was it was first said that not all beleivers have faith and that is not correct.
Bummer about the quite chilly part, I thought it would be nice there by now and it is quite chilly here too.
Wired 4 Fishen
Loyal
- Joined
- Mar 19, 2015
- Messages
- 2,128
Me too !
TaylorDonBarret
Active
- Joined
- Aug 1, 2014
- Messages
- 368
You just did it again. I am not offended by it, i certainly am a sinner in need of being rebuked. When the rebuke is justified, by God's grace I am edified. When the rebuke is unjust, by God's grace i am still edified. Either way God works all things together for the good of those who love Him (not that my love for Him is anything note worthy). But, in order to clarify, when I said that you keep accusing me of sin, the sin that i refer to, that you keep accusing me of, is "trusting in my own works"
Travis
Active
- Joined
- Aug 10, 2014
- Messages
- 815
So, it has come to my attention that Mr. Luther was not altogether a nice man.
Apparently he had quite a hatred for Jews. He wrote the following near the end of his life:
Also, apparently, Hitler's favorite preacher was Luther. After reading the above, I'm not too surprised.
Luther also taught that water baptism was a 100% necessary condition for salvation. What he writes on the subject is somewhat convoluted, but I think it's safe to say that he believed being baptized in physical water literally saved a person. Baptismal regeneration?
This is obviously not true.
So... it may be safe to say that Luther taught heresy... which would then, logically speaking, make him a heretic. There is no indication he repented of such before his death.
God knows.... I do not. Perhaps it would be best to leave his writings alone though.
Blessings!
Travis
Apparently he had quite a hatred for Jews. He wrote the following near the end of his life:
What shall we Christians do with this rejected and condemned people, the Jews? Since they live among us, we dare not tolerate their conduct, now that we are aware of their lying and reviling and blaspheming. If we do, we become sharers in their lies, cursing and blasphemy. Thus we cannot extinguish the unquenchable fire of divine wrath, of which the prophets speak, nor can we convert the Jews. With prayer and the fear of God we must practice a sharp mercy to see whether we might save at least a few from the glowing flames. We dare not avenge ourselves. Vengeance a thousand times worse than we could wish them already has them by the throat. I shall give you my sincere advice:
First to set fire to their synagogues or schools and to bury and cover with dirt whatever will not burn, so that no man will ever again see a stone or cinder of them. This is to be done in honor of our Lord and of Christendom, so that God might see that we are Christians, and do not condone or knowingly tolerate such public lying, cursing, and blaspheming of his Son and of his Christians. For whatever we tolerated in the past unknowingly and I myself was unaware of it will be pardoned by God. But if we, now that we are informed, were to protect and shield such a house for the Jews, existing right before our very nose, in which they lie about, blaspheme, curse, vilify, and defame Christ and us (as was heard above), it would be the same as if we were doing all this and even worse ourselves, as we very well know.
Second, I advise that their houses also be razed and destroyed. For they pursue in them the same aims as in their synagogues. Instead they might be lodged under a roof or in a barn, like the gypsies. This will bring home to them that they are not masters in our country, as they boast, but that they are living in exile and in captivity, as they incessantly wail and lament about us before God.
Third, I advise that all their prayer books and Talmudic writings, in which such idolatry, lies, cursing and blasphemy are taught, be taken from them. (remainder omitted)
Fourth, I advise that their rabbis be forbidden to teach henceforth on pain of loss of life and limb. For they have justly forfeited the right to such an office by holding the poor Jews captive with the saying of Moses (Deuteronomy 17 [:10 ff.]) in which he commands them to obey their teachers on penalty of death, although Moses clearly adds: "what they teach you in accord with the law of the Lord." Those villains ignore that. They wantonly employ the poor people's obedience contrary to the law of the Lord and infuse them with this poison, cursing, and blasphemy. In the same way the pope also held us captive with the declaration in Matthew 16 {:18], "You are Peter," etc, inducing us to believe all the lies and deceptions that issued from his devilish mind. He did not teach in accord with the word of God, and therefore he forfeited the right to teach.
Fifth, I advise that safeconduct on the highways be abolished completely for the Jews. For they have no business in the countryside, since they are not lords, officials, tradesmen, or the like. Let they stay at home. (...remainder omitted).
Sixth, I advise that usury be prohibited to them, and that all cash and treasure of silver and gold be taken from them and put aside for safekeeping. The reason for such a measure is that, as said above, they have no other means of earning a livelihood than usury, and by it they have stolen and robbed from us all they possess. Such money should now be used in no other way than the following: Whenever a Jew is sincerely converted, he should be handed one hundred, two hundred, or three hundred florins, as personal circumstances may suggest. With this he could set himself up in some occupation for the support of his poor wife and children, and the maintenance of the old or feeble. For such evil gains are cursed if they are not put to use with God's blessing in a good and worthy cause.
Seventh, I commend putting a flail, an ax, a hoe, a spade, a distaff, or a spindle into the hands of young, strong Jews and Jewesses and letting them earn their bread in the sweat of their brow, as was imposed on the children of Adam (Gen 3[:19]}. For it is not fitting that they should let us accursed Goyim toil in the sweat of our faces while they, the holy people, idle away their time behind the stove, feasting and farting, and on top of all, boasting blasphemously of their lordship over the Christians by means of our sweat. No, one should toss out these lazy rogues by the seat of their pants.
Second, I advise that their houses also be razed and destroyed. For they pursue in them the same aims as in their synagogues. Instead they might be lodged under a roof or in a barn, like the gypsies. This will bring home to them that they are not masters in our country, as they boast, but that they are living in exile and in captivity, as they incessantly wail and lament about us before God.
Third, I advise that all their prayer books and Talmudic writings, in which such idolatry, lies, cursing and blasphemy are taught, be taken from them. (remainder omitted)
Fourth, I advise that their rabbis be forbidden to teach henceforth on pain of loss of life and limb. For they have justly forfeited the right to such an office by holding the poor Jews captive with the saying of Moses (Deuteronomy 17 [:10 ff.]) in which he commands them to obey their teachers on penalty of death, although Moses clearly adds: "what they teach you in accord with the law of the Lord." Those villains ignore that. They wantonly employ the poor people's obedience contrary to the law of the Lord and infuse them with this poison, cursing, and blasphemy. In the same way the pope also held us captive with the declaration in Matthew 16 {:18], "You are Peter," etc, inducing us to believe all the lies and deceptions that issued from his devilish mind. He did not teach in accord with the word of God, and therefore he forfeited the right to teach.
Fifth, I advise that safeconduct on the highways be abolished completely for the Jews. For they have no business in the countryside, since they are not lords, officials, tradesmen, or the like. Let they stay at home. (...remainder omitted).
Sixth, I advise that usury be prohibited to them, and that all cash and treasure of silver and gold be taken from them and put aside for safekeeping. The reason for such a measure is that, as said above, they have no other means of earning a livelihood than usury, and by it they have stolen and robbed from us all they possess. Such money should now be used in no other way than the following: Whenever a Jew is sincerely converted, he should be handed one hundred, two hundred, or three hundred florins, as personal circumstances may suggest. With this he could set himself up in some occupation for the support of his poor wife and children, and the maintenance of the old or feeble. For such evil gains are cursed if they are not put to use with God's blessing in a good and worthy cause.
Seventh, I commend putting a flail, an ax, a hoe, a spade, a distaff, or a spindle into the hands of young, strong Jews and Jewesses and letting them earn their bread in the sweat of their brow, as was imposed on the children of Adam (Gen 3[:19]}. For it is not fitting that they should let us accursed Goyim toil in the sweat of our faces while they, the holy people, idle away their time behind the stove, feasting and farting, and on top of all, boasting blasphemously of their lordship over the Christians by means of our sweat. No, one should toss out these lazy rogues by the seat of their pants.
Also, apparently, Hitler's favorite preacher was Luther. After reading the above, I'm not too surprised.
Luther also taught that water baptism was a 100% necessary condition for salvation. What he writes on the subject is somewhat convoluted, but I think it's safe to say that he believed being baptized in physical water literally saved a person. Baptismal regeneration?
This is obviously not true.
So... it may be safe to say that Luther taught heresy... which would then, logically speaking, make him a heretic. There is no indication he repented of such before his death.
God knows.... I do not. Perhaps it would be best to leave his writings alone though.
Blessings!
Travis
TaylorDonBarret
Active
- Joined
- Aug 1, 2014
- Messages
- 368
Yeah, i thought you knew about that stuff. I don't see any reason to discount Luther's writings because of it.
Travis
Active
- Joined
- Aug 10, 2014
- Messages
- 815
Apparently I had not looked into it sufficiently,
The truth is the truth whether the devil writes it or not. He writes very good doctrine at times. It's just what he adds to it or tries to take away that is the issue.
Not saying Luther was the devil.
Blessings,
Travis
Thiscrosshurts
Active
- Joined
- Mar 9, 2011
- Messages
- 1,630
Thanks for posting that Travis,I never saw those writings before.
It also looks like he may have had issues with Peter.
God has a copyright on the truth and his name is Jesus,so man has to make it at least 15% different to avoid copyright infringement.
John 10:8 All who came before me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not listen to them.
It seems to me all who came after him were thieves and robbers also.
Let every man be a liar but let God be true.
