I am studying the End Times Prophecy. I thought I was a Pre-Trib believer, but then I studied the Post-Trib viewpoint and now I am confused. I can see both sides of these two beliefs. I understand that Clarence Larkins brought in the Pre-Trib theory. Is he legit?:crazy:
Pre, Mid or Post
- Thread starter SuzanneA
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Hi @SuzanneA
I've moved this to the Bible Study forum, where it's more appropriate for your question.
I don't know Clarence Larkins, but I believe strongly the pre-tribulation is the most accurate and Scripturally sound.
These posts I made a while back should answer your question I hope
www.talkjesus.com
www.talkjesus.com
I've moved this to the Bible Study forum, where it's more appropriate for your question.
I don't know Clarence Larkins, but I believe strongly the pre-tribulation is the most accurate and Scripturally sound.
These posts I made a while back should answer your question I hope
Evidence For A PreTribulation Rapture
Evidence For A PreTribulation Rapture by Kent Crockett Let me first say that our fellowship as Christians is not based upon the timing of the rapture, but upon the finished work of Jesus on the cross. Some have accused those who believe in a...
www.talkjesus.com
The Rapture of the Church ~ Audio Sermon
By Charles Stanley This is a great sermon, 3 parts to listen to on the Rapture, being ready and understanding the events that will take place in the end times which we live in. Part 1A : Direct Link Part 1B : Direct Link Part 2A : Direct Link
www.talkjesus.com
Rapture & Second Coming
Article from: gotquestions.org "What is the difference between the Rapture and the Second Coming?"...
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IwreckNsow
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Hello everyone here. My 1st post. Glad to be here. Can anyone show me scripture that says we are going to heaven at the rapture event.
MightyAngel1
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at IwreckNsow---John 14:1-3...When Jesus says, In my Father's House are many mansions and He goes to prepare a place for us...Question: Where is the Father's House? Answer: The Father's House is in Heaven. Do you agree?
Therefore, When the rapture takes place, Revelation 4:1, We go to Heaven and stand before the Judgment Seat of Christ, Romans 14:10 and Revelation 4:2-3, to be judged for what we did for Jesus Christ on this earth, 2 Corinthians 5:10, whether what we did was good or bad. Do you believe these Holy Scriptures?
Therefore, When the rapture takes place, Revelation 4:1, We go to Heaven and stand before the Judgment Seat of Christ, Romans 14:10 and Revelation 4:2-3, to be judged for what we did for Jesus Christ on this earth, 2 Corinthians 5:10, whether what we did was good or bad. Do you believe these Holy Scriptures?
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MightyAngel1
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At SuzanneA---Just read and believe John Chapter 20 and if you have any questions...please do not hesitate to ask!!!
B-A-C
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I've studied this for over 40 years, heard many sermons with many different points of view, and have even started a few threads about this here on TalkJesus over the last
few years.
It's difficult to prove exactly when the rapture will be, but I tend to be pre-trib.
Mostly because of the following verses.
Matt 24:36; "But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone.
Matt 24:37; "For the coming of the Son of Man will be just like the days of Noah.
Matt 24:38; "For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark,
Matt 24:39; and they did not understand until the flood came and took them all away; so will the coming of the Son of Man be.
Matt 24:40; "Then there will be two men in the field; one will be taken and one will be left.
Matt 24:41; "Two women will be grinding at the mill; one will be taken and one will be left.
Matt 24:42; "Therefore be on the alert, for you do not know which day your Lord is coming.
Mark 13:32; "But of that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone.
Mark 13:33; "Take heed, keep on the alert; for you do not know when the appointed time will come.
Mark 13:34; "It is like a man away on a journey, who upon leaving his house and putting his slaves in charge, assigning to each one his task, also commanded the doorkeeper to stay on the alert.
Mark 13:35; "Therefore, be on the alert--for you do not know when the master of the house is coming, whether in the evening, at midnight, or when the rooster crows, or in the morning--
Mark 13:36; in case he should come suddenly and find you asleep.
Mark 13:37; "What I say to you I say to all, 'Be on the alert!'"
Some have even taken Mark 13:35; "evening", "morning", "midnight" to mean it could be "mid", "pre", or "post".
The pre-trib idea comes from that virtually all scholars (whether they believe in pre, mid or post) agree that the tribulation will last 7 years.
I believe the events of the tribulation will be so horrible and obvious that no one will be able to deny that it is happening.
So if everyone knows, all we have to do is wait seven years and then Jesus will come. But yet the Bible says no one knows when it will be.
Matt 25:13; "Be on the alert then, for you do not know the day nor the hour.
Luke 12:37; "Blessed are those slaves whom the master will find on the alert when he comes; truly I say to you, that he will gird himself to serve, and have them recline at the table, and will come up and wait on them.
Luke 12:38; "Whether he comes in the second watch, or even in the third, and finds them so, blessed are those slaves.
Luke 12:39; "But be sure of this, that if the head of the house had known at what hour the thief was coming, he would not have allowed his house to be broken into.
Luke 12:40; "You too, be ready; for the Son of Man is coming at an hour that you do not expect."
One thing that causes problems is that many believe the rapture and the 2nd coming are one event. I do not.
1 Thes 5:2; For you yourselves know full well that the day of the Lord will come just like a thief in the night.
1 Thes 5:3; While they are saying, "Peace and safety!" then destruction will come upon them suddenly like labor pains upon a woman with child, and they will not escape.
1 Thes 5:4; But you, brethren, are not in darkness, that the day would overtake you like a thief;
1 Thes 5:5; for you are all sons of light and sons of day. We are not of night nor of darkness;
1 Thes 5:6; so then let us not sleep as others do, but let us be alert and sober.
1 Thes 5:7; For those who sleep do their sleeping at night, and those who get drunk get drunk at night.
1 Thes 5:8; But since we are of the day, let us be sober, having put on the breastplate of faith and love, and as a helmet, the hope of salvation.
1 Thes 5:9; For God has not destined us for wrath, but for obtaining salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ,
If we take the passage above, I find it doubtful that while wars (armageddon) and a third of mankind of dying from plagues, poisoned waters, meteors
falling from the skies, earthquakes so huge that they re-arrange the landscape that anyone would be saying "peace and safety".
Also verse 9 above is sometimes taken as God has not called us to go through the tribulation.
1 Thes 4:14; For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep in Jesus.
1 Thes 4:15; For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep.
1 Thes 4:16; For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.
1 Thes 4:17; Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord.
The word "rapture" doesn't appear in the Bible, but it simply means "caught up", and those words do appear in the Bible.
One area of contention comes from Matthew
Matt 24:13; "But the one who endures to the end, he will be saved.
Matt 24:14; "This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all the nations, and then the end will come.
Matt 24:15; "Therefore when you see the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand),
Matt 24:16; then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains.
Matt 24:17; "Whoever is on the housetop must not go down to get the things out that are in his house.
Matt 24:18; "Whoever is in the field must not turn back to get his cloak.
Matt 24:19; "But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days!
Matt 24:20; "But pray that your flight will not be in the winter, or on a Sabbath.
Matt 24:21; "For then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will.
Matt 24:22; "Unless those days had been cut short, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short.
Matt 24:23; "Then if anyone says to you, 'Behold, here is the Christ,' or 'There He is,' do not believe him.
Matt 24:24; "For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will show great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect.
Matt 24:25; "Behold, I have told you in advance.
Matt 24:26; "So if they say to you, 'Behold, He is in the wilderness,' do not go out, or, 'Behold, He is in the inner rooms,' do not believe them.
Matt 24:27; "For just as the lightning comes from the east and flashes even to the west, so will the coming of the Son of Man be.
Matt 24:28; "Wherever the corpse is, there the vultures will gather.
Matt 24:29; "But immediately after the tribulation of those days THE SUN WILL BE DARKENED, AND THE MOON WILL NOT GIVE ITS LIGHT, AND THE STARS WILL FALL from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.
Matt 24:30; "And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the SON OF MAN COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF THE SKY with power and great glory.
Matt 24:31; "And He will send forth His angels with A GREAT TRUMPET and THEY WILL GATHER TOGETHER His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.
So don't the verses above say the rapture will be after the tribulation? Not necessarily. There are at least two other explanations.
1. We know some people will be saved during the tribulation, so this could possibly be those. (some believe there will be a second rapture for those
saved during the tribulation).
2. This isn't the rapture, but rather the second coming. Jesus isn't taking people up to heaven here, he is bringing the raptured saints (from the four winds in the sky)
back to earth "in great power and glory" to rule for a thousand years.
In the rapture, many people will dissapear and a lot of people won't know why. There will be those who have heard of the rapture and some will get saved
after the fact. But many will have hardened hearts and refuse to believe even after this. I personally believe the news media and government will have
many conspiracy theories ready when the time comes to explain it all away. So why would Jesus take the saints up in the rapture, just to bring them back
down to earth immediately? I don't think he will. I think there is a period in between. (possibly the 7 year tribulation). and then Jesus will return to
defeat the beast and the armies of the earth and rule with the saints for a thousand years. Of course after the 1,000 years satan get released and gathers
up another huge army and then there is another war.
Therefore the 2nd coming and the rapture cannot both be the same event. Otherwise the tribuation would never have time to happen.
But I admit, I am not positive either way when it will happen.
few years.
It's difficult to prove exactly when the rapture will be, but I tend to be pre-trib.
Mostly because of the following verses.
Matt 24:36; "But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone.
Matt 24:37; "For the coming of the Son of Man will be just like the days of Noah.
Matt 24:38; "For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark,
Matt 24:39; and they did not understand until the flood came and took them all away; so will the coming of the Son of Man be.
Matt 24:40; "Then there will be two men in the field; one will be taken and one will be left.
Matt 24:41; "Two women will be grinding at the mill; one will be taken and one will be left.
Matt 24:42; "Therefore be on the alert, for you do not know which day your Lord is coming.
Mark 13:32; "But of that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone.
Mark 13:33; "Take heed, keep on the alert; for you do not know when the appointed time will come.
Mark 13:34; "It is like a man away on a journey, who upon leaving his house and putting his slaves in charge, assigning to each one his task, also commanded the doorkeeper to stay on the alert.
Mark 13:35; "Therefore, be on the alert--for you do not know when the master of the house is coming, whether in the evening, at midnight, or when the rooster crows, or in the morning--
Mark 13:36; in case he should come suddenly and find you asleep.
Mark 13:37; "What I say to you I say to all, 'Be on the alert!'"
Some have even taken Mark 13:35; "evening", "morning", "midnight" to mean it could be "mid", "pre", or "post".
The pre-trib idea comes from that virtually all scholars (whether they believe in pre, mid or post) agree that the tribulation will last 7 years.
I believe the events of the tribulation will be so horrible and obvious that no one will be able to deny that it is happening.
So if everyone knows, all we have to do is wait seven years and then Jesus will come. But yet the Bible says no one knows when it will be.
Matt 25:13; "Be on the alert then, for you do not know the day nor the hour.
Luke 12:37; "Blessed are those slaves whom the master will find on the alert when he comes; truly I say to you, that he will gird himself to serve, and have them recline at the table, and will come up and wait on them.
Luke 12:38; "Whether he comes in the second watch, or even in the third, and finds them so, blessed are those slaves.
Luke 12:39; "But be sure of this, that if the head of the house had known at what hour the thief was coming, he would not have allowed his house to be broken into.
Luke 12:40; "You too, be ready; for the Son of Man is coming at an hour that you do not expect."
One thing that causes problems is that many believe the rapture and the 2nd coming are one event. I do not.
1 Thes 5:2; For you yourselves know full well that the day of the Lord will come just like a thief in the night.
1 Thes 5:3; While they are saying, "Peace and safety!" then destruction will come upon them suddenly like labor pains upon a woman with child, and they will not escape.
1 Thes 5:4; But you, brethren, are not in darkness, that the day would overtake you like a thief;
1 Thes 5:5; for you are all sons of light and sons of day. We are not of night nor of darkness;
1 Thes 5:6; so then let us not sleep as others do, but let us be alert and sober.
1 Thes 5:7; For those who sleep do their sleeping at night, and those who get drunk get drunk at night.
1 Thes 5:8; But since we are of the day, let us be sober, having put on the breastplate of faith and love, and as a helmet, the hope of salvation.
1 Thes 5:9; For God has not destined us for wrath, but for obtaining salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ,
If we take the passage above, I find it doubtful that while wars (armageddon) and a third of mankind of dying from plagues, poisoned waters, meteors
falling from the skies, earthquakes so huge that they re-arrange the landscape that anyone would be saying "peace and safety".
Also verse 9 above is sometimes taken as God has not called us to go through the tribulation.
1 Thes 4:14; For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep in Jesus.
1 Thes 4:15; For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep.
1 Thes 4:16; For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.
1 Thes 4:17; Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord.
The word "rapture" doesn't appear in the Bible, but it simply means "caught up", and those words do appear in the Bible.
One area of contention comes from Matthew
Matt 24:13; "But the one who endures to the end, he will be saved.
Matt 24:14; "This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all the nations, and then the end will come.
Matt 24:15; "Therefore when you see the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand),
Matt 24:16; then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains.
Matt 24:17; "Whoever is on the housetop must not go down to get the things out that are in his house.
Matt 24:18; "Whoever is in the field must not turn back to get his cloak.
Matt 24:19; "But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days!
Matt 24:20; "But pray that your flight will not be in the winter, or on a Sabbath.
Matt 24:21; "For then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will.
Matt 24:22; "Unless those days had been cut short, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short.
Matt 24:23; "Then if anyone says to you, 'Behold, here is the Christ,' or 'There He is,' do not believe him.
Matt 24:24; "For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will show great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect.
Matt 24:25; "Behold, I have told you in advance.
Matt 24:26; "So if they say to you, 'Behold, He is in the wilderness,' do not go out, or, 'Behold, He is in the inner rooms,' do not believe them.
Matt 24:27; "For just as the lightning comes from the east and flashes even to the west, so will the coming of the Son of Man be.
Matt 24:28; "Wherever the corpse is, there the vultures will gather.
Matt 24:29; "But immediately after the tribulation of those days THE SUN WILL BE DARKENED, AND THE MOON WILL NOT GIVE ITS LIGHT, AND THE STARS WILL FALL from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.
Matt 24:30; "And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the SON OF MAN COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF THE SKY with power and great glory.
Matt 24:31; "And He will send forth His angels with A GREAT TRUMPET and THEY WILL GATHER TOGETHER His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.
So don't the verses above say the rapture will be after the tribulation? Not necessarily. There are at least two other explanations.
1. We know some people will be saved during the tribulation, so this could possibly be those. (some believe there will be a second rapture for those
saved during the tribulation).
2. This isn't the rapture, but rather the second coming. Jesus isn't taking people up to heaven here, he is bringing the raptured saints (from the four winds in the sky)
back to earth "in great power and glory" to rule for a thousand years.
In the rapture, many people will dissapear and a lot of people won't know why. There will be those who have heard of the rapture and some will get saved
after the fact. But many will have hardened hearts and refuse to believe even after this. I personally believe the news media and government will have
many conspiracy theories ready when the time comes to explain it all away. So why would Jesus take the saints up in the rapture, just to bring them back
down to earth immediately? I don't think he will. I think there is a period in between. (possibly the 7 year tribulation). and then Jesus will return to
defeat the beast and the armies of the earth and rule with the saints for a thousand years. Of course after the 1,000 years satan get released and gathers
up another huge army and then there is another war.
Therefore the 2nd coming and the rapture cannot both be the same event. Otherwise the tribuation would never have time to happen.
But I admit, I am not positive either way when it will happen.
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Travis
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I think it really all comes down to what your conscience will, or will not, permit you to believe about the timing of the rapture. There has been so much done to 'prove' the pre-tribulation rapture, that if you want to believe it you can find enough information to support your stance against 99% of people out there.
Personally, as I read through the scriptures, my conscience won't let me believe that there will be a pre-trib rapture. I only see post-tribulation, pre-wrath of God rapture. That's just where I stand though.
Travis
Personally, as I read through the scriptures, my conscience won't let me believe that there will be a pre-trib rapture. I only see post-tribulation, pre-wrath of God rapture. That's just where I stand though.
Travis
RJ
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It's Pre for me! The Great Tribulation is not the same as trials and tribulations that Jesus said we would suffer through. And, as far as the Great Tribulation goes, I beleive it is after Rapture and we either transformed in a blink of an eye or we are raised imperishable first. In either case we are not subject to the Great Tribulation.
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IwreckNsow
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the 1Thes.4 scripture must happen on the Day of the Lord which ofcourse happens after the trib period
RJ
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HI IwreckNsow, don't beleive we have met! Could you please show where the above scripture happens after the trib period!
NoHype
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I hate to burst a bubble many have relied on from men's traditions, maybe for most of their lives, but the beginning of the Pre-Tribulational Rapture theory first began to be taught as Christian doctrine in 1830's Great Britain by John Nelson Darby. And he actually got the idea from the Edward Irving movement in 1830's Britain, as discovered by Dave MacPhearson's excellent documented research.
So for about 1,800 years, the Christian Church held to a Post-Tribulational view of the time of Christ's second coming and gathering of His Church. The early Church fathers of the 1st thru 3rd centuries (i.e., prior to the Catholic system) were Post-Trib according to what they wrote about the endtime events.
In Matthew 24 and Mark 13, our Lord Jesus reveals that His coming is AFTER... the "great tribulation" He warned of there, but the Pre-trib school has removed His teaching there on that as not being meant for His Church, but for the Jews. Yet He was not speaking to unbelieving Jews there, but indeed speaking that to His early Apostles and disciples upon the Mount of Olives with Him who made up the early foundation of His Church. In those chapters our Lord Jesus was giving us the 7 signs of the end leading up to His future return. Those signs there parallel the signs He gave us in His Book of Revelation through Apostle John.
NoHype
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I don't agree with your's, or the Pre-trib Rapture school's interpretation of that John verse, which you speak of. I agree with what's written there, but not their interpretation of it, because they leave out the OT prophecies involving that. Our Lord Jesus would not go against the OT prophecy in the Book of Ezekiel about that promise to His elect.
In Ezekiel 40 thru 48 is the Father's House, shown on earth, in the holy land, and the timing is immediately after the final battle of this world with Jesus' coming. The word "mansions" mean abodes per the Greek, and that's about the abodes of the priests given in the Ezekiel temple layout on earth during Christ's future Millennium reign with His elect in Jerusalem. That is where He is going to return to as written, and that is where He will gather His faithful of His Church. And at that timing, which is after this present world with the "twinkling of an eye" event of 1 Cor.15, the Heavenly is going to be revealed right here upon this earth.
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NoHype
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That's strange, I can find enough Bible evidence in written Scripture that shows Christ's second coming and gathering of His Church is 100 % immediately AFTER... the "great tribulation" He mentioned in the Matthew 24 and Mark 13 chapters. Likewise in His Revelation and all throughout the New Testament, and even per the Old Testament prophets.
DHC
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Hello NoHype.
How do you read the text (Matthew 24) as far as the end times is concerned?
MightyAngel1
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Howdy IwreckNsow,
What you claim here is not what the Apostle Paul taught in his second letter to the Church of Thessalonica. Let us take a look at what the Apostle Paul taught in this verse. 2 Thessalonians 2:1-2...The Bible says...
1. NOW WE beseech you, Brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him...[this part of verse 1...points back to 1 Thessalonians 4:17...the gathering in the clouds]
2. That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. [The Day of Christ...is the revelation that was kept secret from since the world began and was revealed unto the Apostle Paul by Jesus Christ Himself....Romans 16:25 and Galatians 1:11-12.]
Now, You are saying then...that the Day of the Lord and the Day of Christ are the very same day. According to the Law of Moses...you are incorrect...and very much so...INCORRECT!!!!!!!!!!!! For an example...The Feast of Trumpets occurs on the first day of the 7th Month. The Feast of the Great Day of Atonement occurs on the 10th Day of the 7th Month.
According to your interpretation of End Time Bible Prophecy with the Law of Moses as your Template...The Law of Moses is changed...and the Feast of Trumpets and the Feast of the Great Day of Atonement then occur on the very same day....which is after...the Tribulation period.
I assure you with this most powerful Truth...The 1st day of the Month of Tishrei and the 10th day of the Month of Tishrei on the Jewish Calendar...never...I say again, NEVER...occur on the very same day. Matter of fact, There is not one Jew from the Seed of Jacob who will stand with you on what you are teaching. They will reject what you are teaching.
The Apostle Paul again writes...in 1 Thessalonians 5:1-9 and describes for us what the Day of Christ is...Paul says...The Day of Christ...is a day of light...he says it this way...from verse 5...Ye are all children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.
Yet, Almighty God in Amos 5:18 says the following words...Woe unto you that desire the day of the Lord! to what end is it for you? the day of the Lord is darkness, and not light.
So, We have the Day of Christ...which is a day of light and not darkness.......and we have the Day of the Lord which is a day of darkness and not light. So, Are you saying then, that day time and night time can occur at the very same time...at the very same place...on the very same day? I have a statement for you...you will not sell this to a Meteorologist....he will see right through what you are attempting to claim.
I suggest you get into the Law of Moses...and learn what Jesus is going to do...then teach what He is going to do...word for word and not change anything along the way. Also. John Chapter 20 is a good place to start in the New Testament!!!
MightyAngel1
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Howdy Nohype,
What you claim is very interesting indeed. You say that Jesus Christ will not go against the OT Prophecy in the Book of Ezekiel. I also say...Jesus Christ will not go against the Law of Moses either.
Regarding John 14:1-3, I have a question for you...Are you saying then...at that time when Jesus spoke to His Disciples...at that time in Heaven...The Father's House had no mansions in Heaven? Are you also saying then that the Father's House in Heaven...has no mansions...right now? If this is so...wouldn't you agree that Jesus Christ would be considered a liar?
You say Christ will gather His Faithful of His Church...well...which one? Acts 7:38??? Or, Ephesians 5:27??? Who will Christ gather at His Coming...specifically whom by God's Most Holy Name? I look forward to your answer!
NoHype
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The signs our Lord Jesus was giving to His Apostles (and us) upon the Mount of Olives parallel the Seals of Revelation 6. The final sign He gave in the Matt.24 and Mark 13 chapters was that of His second coming and gathering of His Church. So I do not believe it a coincidence that He gave those 7 signs while upon the Mount of Olives, since Acts 1 and Zech.14 declares that is where He is to return to when He comes. And since He made His Revelation a part of that Olivet Discourse by revealing more detail about those 7 signs for the end, and told Apostle John to write it down and give it to the seven Churches, that means that prophecy definitely is for His Church today.
NoHype
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- Jan 20, 2014
- Messages
- 566
Most of that in red is your own supposition, and disregards quite a bit of Bible prophecy involving the time after our Lord Jesus' return. Do you not remember Apostle Paul telling Timothy to rightly divide The Word of Truth (2 Tim.2:15)? That means we must be careful in Bible study when God's Word is telling us of events to occur in different time periods.
Per John 14, our Lord Jesus ascended to Heaven for to prepare those 'abodes' ("mansions"), and that means what? It means the dwellings of His elect priests that will serve Him, but that's in the temple of the Book of Ezekiel during His future "thousand years" reign. It does not... mean places of residence in Heaven right after we die, for the time of rewards are not handed out until His return, and not before (end of Rev.11). That along with the Ezekiel 40-47 prophecy means what? It means those abodes are coming down out of Heaven along with the holy city that Ezekiel was given by vision to see, to earth, for the time of Christ's Millennial reign with His elect. Has the time for that to manifest on earth come yet today? No, but it will.
So instead thinking those 'abodes' mean when we die we go to those dwellings now, to be with Jesus, and live in Heaven evermore, that... idea specifically goes against the Ezekiel prophecy involving those abodes of the priests that will serve Christ after His coming. It even denies the whole Ezekiel 40-47 layout on earth for after Christ's second coming back to this earth. And with some, it can even deny that our Lord Jesus returns literally... back to this earth at His second coming like Scripture declares (Acts 1; Zech.14).
A lot of the problem of many not understanding these things is because of lack of study throughout all of God's Word. I'm well aware not that many brothers and sisters in Christ today are even aware of the Ezekiel 40-47 prophecies about our Lord Jesus' future "thousand years" reign on earth with His elect, even though Scripture like Rev.5:10 specifically states Christ's elect shall reign on the earth.
Our Lord Jesus Christ will gather His 'elect' that remain watching and faithful waiting for His return, and that do not fall away to worship the coming Antichrist in His place. That's is a warning He and His Apostles gave us for the very end in more than one Bible Scripture, and we are to heed it, instead of pop doctrines from men who have been blinded and are ready to fall in a ditch.
Furthermore, the John 14 Scripture in question is often... used to try and support their Pre-trib Rapture theory, when our Lord Jesus gave nothing there about the 'when' of His coming to gather His Church. There are many New Testament Scriptures that declare His coming that do not include the subject of 'when', and that is only one of the many. Yet those of the Pre-trib Rapture try... to insert a 'when' idea using that John 14 Scripture as a supposed proof of their Pre-tribulational Rapture theory. And then they will flat oppose Scripture where our Lord Jesus specifically did... give the 'when' of His second coming, like the Matt.24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27 Scriptures where He declared His coming to be after the great tribulation He warned of.
