Pre, Mid or Post

[Chad]

I know the blind Pharisees work overtime trying to create all kinds of loopholes with that simple reading so they fool God's people into believing all that was fulfilled in 70 A.D. Jerusalem, even to the point of world-play with that "end of the world" idea, but those don't work, for His disciples knew exactly what timing He was pointing to when they associated His second coming with it.

Who are you addressing to as Pharisees here? Anyone who doesn't agree with you?

 

[DHC]

Hello NoRapture.

It certainly appears that you subscribe to a theological construction. Have a look at what you wrote below NoRapture,
it escapes me how your reading the first few verses?

WITHIN the Matt.24 first section of verses, His answer revealing about the destruction of the temple
was NOT about the 2nd temple that was destroyed in 70 A.D., but the destruction of a final temple
that will be standing in Jerusalem on the day of His return. That is why His Apostles knew there that
He was giving a sign of the 'end of the world'

Here is the first two verses from the twenty fourth chapter of Matthew, NoRapture.

Matthew 24
1 Then Jesus went out and departed from the temple, and His disciples came up to show Him the buildings of the temple.
2 And Jesus said to them, “Do you not see all these things? Assuredly, I say to you, not one stone shall be left here upon another,
that shall not be thrown down.”

There it is NoRapture, Jesus says 'Do you not see all these things', then Jesus says 'not one stone shall be left here upon another'.
Jesus told the disciples the temple would be destroyed before the disciples even asked any questions.

I know the blind Pharisees work overtime trying to create all kinds of loopholes with that simple reading

You need to simply read the first two verses NoRapture, these first two verses are not loop holes. The disciples had
not asked any question of Jesus at this stage, Jesus just told them that the temple would be dismantled stone by stone.

So, like I said, the "abomination of desolation" event from the Book of Daniel, which Jesus quoted
there as one of the signs for the end, REQUIRES... a standing temple there in Jerusalem for the
"great tribulation" at the end of this present world. The orthodox Jews in Jerusalem have the materials
ready to build it, and do... plan to build it, and according to Bible prophecy they will build it, and it
will be destroyed in final.

This is where the line in the sand has been drawn NoRapture. Your eschatology requires a standing temple in Jerusalem
at the very end of the days. You eschatology contradicts the first verses of (Matthew 24:1-2) by stating that Jesus is not
referring to the current temple.

May I also introduce you to a very serious problem that your eschatology introduces NoHype.

If you hold to the premise that a temple must exist on the temple mount before Jesus will return. Then it holds also, that
we know that the return of Jesus cannot occur before the third temple is built.

If we know that Jesus cannot return until the building of the third temple is completed. Then we of course know that the
only time period that we need to heed is the time period after this third temple is built. In other words, eat and drink to your
hearts content, and give your slave a good whooping boy, because Jesus is not returning any time soon.

This seems to fly in the face of what Jesus said later in this chapter NoHype.

42 Watch therefore, for you do not know what hour your Lord is coming.

But we do know Lord when you are returning, because you cannot return until after the third temple
has been built. So we no longer need to watch and wait, as long as there is no temple in Jerusalem!

 

[B-A-C]

But we do know Lord when you are returning, because you cannot return until after the third temple
has been built. So we no longer need to watch and wait, as long as there is no temple in Jerusalem!

Unless there is a pre-trib rapture and it is not the same event as the second coming.

 

[DHC]

Unless there is a pre-trib rapture and it is not the same event as the second coming.

Hello B-A-C.

If you could be so kind, could you please respond to my previous post which I addressed to you, i.e., post # 40.

Then after you have replied B-A-C, then we can progress, otherwise this thread becomes a jumbled mess.

What happens if you do not reply to my previous post, then B-A-C, I will not be obliged to answer your last post.

So I will place the following comment of yours on the back burner until you reply.

Unless there is a pre-trib rapture and it is not the same event as the second coming.

 

[RJ]

Unless there is a pre-trib rapture and it is not the same event as the second coming.

I have always felt that way. Don't worry but when the new Temple is under construction, you better bone up on your end-time prophecy..LOL!

 

[norapture]

Not sure why anyone would want to make this a laughing matter. Cause we all need to try to coming to the understanding, what the truth is in his word. And help each other to come to knowledge of the truth cause it not about which one of us is right. Its about helping each other to see the truth in his word.
Now if we just read the book of Daniel we can see, what Jesus was talking about when he said the abomination of desolation. And when the prophecy would happen. For Daniel seen this vision three times. Starting in chapter seven threw the end of Daniel. And it plainly tell when the abomination of desolation will be. I know some will say why don't you just post the scripture. But I say why don't we show the Lord that we want to know the truth, no matter what we believe. That we are not so lazy to search the scriptures to find the truth. God bless each and everyone of us to come together to the knowledge of the truth.

 

[RJ]

Not sure why anyone would want to make this a laughing matter. Cause we all need to try to coming to the understanding, what the truth is in his word. And help each other to come to knowledge of the truth cause it not about which one of us is right. Its about helping each other to see the truth in his word.
Now if we just read the book of Daniel we can see, what Jesus was talking about when he said the abomination of desolation. And when the prophecy would happen. For Daniel seen this vision three times. Starting in chapter seven threw the end of Daniel. And it plainly tell when the abomination of desolation will be. I know some will say why don't you just post the scripture. But I say why don't we show the Lord that we want to know the truth, no matter what we believe. That we are not so lazy to search the scriptures to find the truth. God bless each and everyone of us to come together to the knowledge of the truth.

I have a desire to understand the Bible as much as possible, that we are saved by grace alone and I enjoy Bible prophecy and knowledge about end times. But, I will tell you truth. The truth is that with Christ in me, there is nothing that I have to worry about on the outside of me. And, with no disrespect, just truth, as far as what I know of you, I certainly don't need or want your knowledge to lead me in truth, what I have he says is sufficient!

 

[B-A-C]

Hello B-A-C.

If you could be so kind, could you please respond to my previous post which I addressed to you, i.e., post # 40.

Then after you have replied B-A-C, then we can progress, otherwise this thread becomes a jumbled mess.

What happens if you do not reply to my previous post, then B-A-C, I will not be obliged to answer your last post.

So I will place the following comment of yours on the back burner until you reply.

I went back and read post #40, but I'm not sure what the question or the point there is.
I wasn't asking if verses 1 and 2 were about the temple, I was making the statement that Matthew 24:1-2; "IS" about the temple.

 

[DHC]

I went back and read post #40, but I'm not sure what the question or the point there is.
I wasn't asking if verses 1 and 2 were about the temple, I was making the statement that Matthew 24:1-2; "IS" about the temple.

Hello B-A-C.

Thanks for the reply and your answer is correct. Though there is a significant relationship between these first two verses
and the disciples first question.

The first question the disciples asked, 'Tell us when will these things be?'

What are 'these things' the disciples are referring to here?

2 And Jesus said to them, “Do you not see all these things?

Jesus is talking about the temple, the surrounding structures and the adornments.

Jesus now explains to the disciples what will happen to 'these things', the temple, e.t.c.

15 “Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing
in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand), 16 “then let those who are in Judea flee to the
mountains. 17 Let him who is on the housetop not go down to take anything out of his house. 18 And
let him who is in the field not go back to get his clothes. 19 But woe to those who are pregnant and to
those who are nursing babies in those days! 20 And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on
the Sabbath.

These verses were never meant to be included in the end time scenario. When we read that those who
are in Judea should flee to the mountains. We realize that this instruction to flee Judea is not occurring
just before Christ returns. This is a simple instruction to flee Jerusalem before Titus destroys Jerusalem.
What possible use is there in attempting to flee Judea when the world is about to end?

In the Gospel of Luke this destruction of Jerusalem is clearly separated from the end time events.

Luke 21
20 But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near.
23...For there will be great distress in the land and wrath upon this people.
24 And they will fall by the edge of the sword, and be led away captive into all nations.
And Jerusalem will be trampled by Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.

There should be no doubt that the accounts of Matthew and Mark mixed 'these things' up with
the end time events. Luke does not confuse the demise of Israel with the end time events. Luke
extracts the desolation of the temple and Jerusalem from the discourse about the end times.

How do you interpret (Luke 20-24) B-A-C?

 

[B-A-C]

How do you interpret (Luke 20-24) B-A-C?

Four chapters is a lot, I do not think they are all about the same thing or the same time frame. However part of Luke 21, looks very familiar to Matthew 24.

Luke 21:5; And while some were talking about the temple, that it was adorned with beautiful stones and votive gifts, He said,
Luke 21:6; "As for these things which you are looking at, the days will come in which there will not be left one stone upon another which will not be torn down."

Obviously this is about the temple again. But I believe this is a repetitive prophecy.
The original temple was torn down in about 422BC.
It was torn down again in about 70AD.
I believe it will be built a 3rd time and possibly torn down again during the tribulation. (Otherwise the abomination of desolation could not happen again)

Luke 21:7; They questioned Him, saying, "Teacher, when therefore will these things happen? And what will be the sign when these things are about to take place?"
Luke 21:8;And He said, "See to it that you are not misled; for many will come in My name, saying, 'I am He,' and, 'The time is near.' Do not go after them.
Luke 21:9; "When you hear of wars and disturbances, do not be terrified; for these things must take place first, but the end does not follow immediately."
Luke 21:10; Then He continued by saying to them, "Nation will rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom,
Luke 21:11; and there will be great earthquakes, and in various places plagues and famines; and there will be terrors and great signs from heaven.

There really is no record of false Christ appearing during the first century, no record of many large earthquakes, (there was one in Jerusalem at Jesus's crucifixion)
and no record of many nations waring against each other, indeed the Roman occupation and Roman empire itself was around for another 400 years after this time.
So this must be about some time in the future.

Luke 21:12; "But before all these things, they will lay their hands on you and will persecute you, delivering you to the synagogues and prisons, bringing you before kings and governors for My name's sake.
Luke 21:13; "It will lead to an opportunity for your testimony.
Luke 21:14; "So make up your minds not to prepare beforehand to defend yourselves;
Luke 21:15; for I will give you utterance and wisdom which none of your opponents will be able to resist or refute.
Luke 21:16; "But you will be betrayed even by parents and brothers and relatives and friends, and they will put some of you to death,
Luke 21:17; and you will be hated by all because of My name.
Luke 21:18; "Yet not a hair of your head will perish.
Luke 21:19; "By your endurance you will gain your lives.

Another on going prophecy. We know Christians were persecuted even in the first century. There are may secular accounts of how Emperor Nero treated Christians.
He used them as bonfires for his parties, he threw thousands of them to lions in the coliseum, many were used for entertainment to fight unarmed against Roman
soldiers and gladiators. Christians in many places in the world are still persecuted today, and no doubt the persecution will be worse during the tribulation.
Verses 18 and 19 are somewhat controversial, some take this to mean that the apostles Jesus was peaking to here did not die violent deaths. However I personally
take it to mean, they didn't die because they had eternal life. Besides that, verse 16 specifically says some of them will be put to death.

Luke 21:20; "But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then recognize that her desolation is near.
Luke 21:21; "Then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains, and those who are in the midst of the city must leave, and those who are in the country must not enter the city;
Luke 21:22; because these are days of vengeance, so that all things which are written will be fulfilled.
Luke 21:23; "Woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days; for there will be great distress upon the land and wrath to this people;

Another repetitive prophecy. How many times was Jerusalem destroyed in the Bible? At least twice before Jesus was there.
Again in 70AD. ..and possibly again during the tribulation. Also during the medieval crusades it was attacked many times, while I don't think
we can say it was totally destroyed, it was "mostly" destroyed over and over again. Even today, can we say Jerusalem is at peace with the Palestinians
and Hamas?

Luke 21:24; and they will fall by the edge of the sword, and will be led captive into all the nations; and Jerusalem will be trampled under foot by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.
Luke 21:25; "There will be signs in sun and moon and stars, and on the earth dismay among nations, in perplexity at the roaring of the sea and the waves,
Luke 21:26; men fainting from fear and the expectation of the things which are coming upon the world; for the powers of the heavens will be shaken.
Luke 21:27; "Then they will see THE SON OF MAN COMING IN A CLOUD with power and great glory.

This is where things get interesting. None of these things has ever happened at any time.The "time of the Gentiles" has not been fulfilled yet.
The Gospel has not been preached to the nations yet. The sun and moon have not been darkened and many stars have not fallen from the sky.
(I am mixing Matthew 24 with this a little). And last but not least, we certainly haven't seen Jesus "returning on the clouds in great power" (to gather
up His elect) yet.Some people think this was the ascension with Moses and Elijah, but I don't because first of all everyone didn't see it, only a few
of the disciples. Also, no one "fainted from fear" because they saw this, in fact they wanted to build three temples for them (Matt 17:4. Finally in Acts 1:11; we
see that Jesus will return yet again after His appearance on the mount of transfiguration.

Luke 21:28; "But when these things begin to take place, straighten up and lift up your heads, because your redemption is drawing near."
Luke 21:29; Then He told them a parable: "Behold the fig tree and all the trees;
Luke 21:30; as soon as they put forth leaves, you see it and know for yourselves that summer is now near.
Luke 21:31; "So you also, when you see these things happening, recognize that the kingdom of God is near.
Luke 21:32; "Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all things take place.

Verse 32 is another controversial verse. Some take this to mean these things will happen within 40 years of the prophecy.
And so much of it did in 70AD. But does that mean that's the only time it will happen? I don't think so. Also "this generation"
is sometimes taken to mean "this generation that is under the current covenant".

Luke 21:33; "Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will not pass away.
Luke 21:34; "Be on guard, so that your hearts will not be weighted down with dissipation and drunkenness and the worries of life, and that day will not come on you suddenly like a trap;
Luke 21:35; for it will come upon all those who dwell on the face of all the earth.

Verse 34 is a warning. Don't get weighed down with the sins of this world and drunkenness.
Verse 35 says this will affect EVERYONE on the earth, not just a few, (so obviously this wasn't speaking of the transfiguration).

 

[DHC]

Hello B-A-C.

Thanks for the reply and I do agree with most of what you wrote, well done B-A-C.

Sorry about the typo (Luke 20:24) but you knew the verses that I was citing.

Though there was a paragraph that you wrote in your reply, that I found puzzling to say the least.

Here are the verses that I asked you to explain B-A-C.

Luke 21
20 “But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near.
21 Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those who are in the midst of her
depart, and let not those who are in the country enter her.
22 For these are the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
23 But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days!
For there will be great distress in the land and wrath upon this people.
24 And they will fall by the edge of the sword, and be led away captive into all nations.
And Jerusalem will be trampled by Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.


It seems a simple and straight forward prediction of the destruction of covenant Israel. A true fulfillment
prophecy relating to this nation! But for some unknown reason you made the following statement.

Another repetitive prophecy. How many times was Jerusalem destroyed in the Bible?

This prophecy that Jesus gave about Israel was a single prophecy concerning the approaching desolation
of Israel (wrath upon this people)! This prophecy will never be repeated and cannot be repeated. All things
concerning the nation of Israel were fulfilled with this final desolation of Israel by God.

If you are a Zionist which I suspect you are B-A-C, then could you please explain what the 'the times of the Gentiles
are fulfilled' means? For Israel will be trampled by the Gentiles until this Gentile dominion of Israel has expired!

Tell me when in the past B-A-C, did the entire nation of Israel become desolate B-A-C?

Please explain how the 'all things' becomes 'some things' B-A-C?

I need the scripture that your using to support your statement 'another repetitive prophecy'.

 

[faithfulservant]

Jesus said He would return like a thief:

Matthew 24:43-44
43 But know this, that if the master of the house had known in what part of the night the thief was coming, he would have stayed awake and would not have let his house be broken into. 44 Therefore you also must be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect.

Then, in Revelation, we see Him say this again:

Rev 16:15 “Behold, I am coming like a thief! Blessed is the one who stays awake, keeping his garments on, that he may not go about naked and be seen exposed!”

Take note that this take place after the 6th bowl judgment is poured out upon the earth:

Revelation 16:12-15
12 The sixth angel poured out his bowl on the great river Euphrates, and its water was dried up, to prepare the way for the kings from the east. 13 And I saw, coming out of the mouth of the dragon and out of the mouth of the beast and out of the mouth of the false prophet, three unclean spirits like frogs. 14 For they are demonic spirits, performing signs, who go abroad to the kings of the whole world, to assemble them for battle on the great day of God the Almighty. 15 (“Behold, I am coming like a thief! Blessed is the one who stays awake, keeping his garments on, that he may not go about naked and be seen exposed!”)

This means that we are indeed going to be going through some perilous times, but take heart because He (Jesus) who is in you is greater than he (Satan) who is in the world!

There is going to be persecution leading up to the wrath of God, but when God's wrath comes the world will be the one shaking in their shoes, not us. We are not appointed to wrath.

Consider the Israelites in Egypt when God brought the plagues and judgments down there. It will be like that for us. We will not be afflicted, and we will end up rising and moving into our promised land (the Millennial Reign) with the world handing us gold and precious jewels and valuables just as they did to the Israelites when they headed into their freedom.

 

[Travis]

Jesus said He would return like a thief:

Hey Jeff,

To add a little to what you said about Jesus coming like a thief:

1 Thessalonians 5
2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. 3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. 4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. 5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness. 6 Therefore let us not sleep, as [do] others; but let us watch and be sober.

Those who are obedient and watching for that day will not be overtaken like a thief, Jesus is only coming as a thief to those who are of this world, not believers.

When they think they are safe and secure, then Jesus will surprise them with the ultimate surprise. Like a thief in the night.

Travis

 

[DHC]

The rapture occurs after the arrival of the Christ on the clouds of heaven.

Matthew 24
29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon
will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.
30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth
will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together
His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Mark 13
24 “But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light;
25 the stars of heaven will fall, and the powers in the heavens will be shaken. 26 Then they will see
the Son of Man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. 27 And then He will send His angels,
and gather together His elect from the four winds, from the farthest part of earth to the farthest part of heaven.

 

[norapture]

Hello NoRapture.

It certainly appears that you subscribe to a theological construction. Have a look at what you wrote below NoRapture,
it escapes me how your reading the first few verses?

Here is the first two verses from the twenty fourth chapter of Matthew, NoRapture.


1 Then Jesus went out and departed from the temple, and His disciples came up to show Him the buildings of the temple.
2 And Jesus said to them, “Do you not see all these things? Assuredly, I say to you, not one stone shall be left here upon another,
that shall not be thrown down.”

There it is NoRapture, Jesus says 'Do you not see all these things', then Jesus says 'not one stone shall be left here upon another'.
Jesus told the disciples the temple would be destroyed before the disciples even asked any questions.

You need to simply read the first two verses NoRapture, these first two verses are not loop holes. The disciples had
not asked any question of Jesus at this stage, Jesus just told them that the temple would be dismantled stone by stone.

This is where the line in the sand has been drawn NoRapture. Your eschatology requires a standing temple in Jerusalem
at the very end of the days. You eschatology contradicts the first verses of (M by stating that Jesus is not
referring to the current temple.

DHC you said norapture in most of the above phrase's. These writings wasn't mine , that was nohype's. Just thought I would let you know.

 

[norapture]

DHC I know you posted this to B.A.C but may I ask you about some things here.




20 “But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near.

Do you believe in this verse Jesus is talking about the abomination of desolation, when he said the desolation is near ?

21 Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those who are in the midst of her
depart, and let not those who are in the country enter her.
22 For these are the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.

OK verse 22 DHC do you believe that ALL THINGS which is written, was fullfiled in 70 AD ? Cause it says ALL THINGS. Read Daniel 12:7 , here is when all things will be fulfilled. After three and half years.

23 But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days!
For there will be great distress in the land and wrath upon this people.
24 And they will fall by the edge of the sword, and be led away captive into all nations.
And Jerusalem will be trampled by Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.

OK DHC the times of the Gentiles has not began yet . Daniel 7:25 this time= 1, times= 2, and dividing of times = a half so three and a half years. so if you read these verse's Daniel 8:11-14, in verse 14 you see , three and a half years. To be trodden under foot.
Revelation 13:5 again we see three and a half years. Revelation 11:2 we can see again three and half years. To tread under foot, so the abomination of desolation did not happen in 70 AD.
You have to know what the time's of the Gentiles is its about Jerusalem being trotted under foot for three and half years its the abomination of desolation, or the abomination that Will make it desolate.
So when is the abomination of desolation Daniel 7:25-28, Daniel 8:17, Daniel 8:24-26, Daniel 9:24-27, Daniel 10:14,



It seems a simple and straight forward prediction of the destruction of covenant Israel. A true fulfillment
prophecy relating to this nation! But for some unknown reason you made the following statement.

It does not say destruction of the covenant of Israel. It is the destruction of Jerusalem.

This prophecy that Jesus gave about Israel was a single prophecy concerning the approaching desolation
of Israel (wrath upon this people)! This prophecy will never be repeated and cannot be repeated. All things
concerning the nation of Israel were fulfilled with this final desolation of Israel by God.


What people? The people that's in Jerusalem at the time of abomination of desolation.

If you are a Zionist which I suspect you are B-A-C, then could you please explain what the 'the times of the Gentiles
are fulfilled' means? For Israel will be trampled by the Gentiles until this Gentile dominion of Israel has expired!

Tell me when in the past B-A-C, did the entire nation of Israel become desolate B-A-C?

No the nation is not desolate, but it wasn't about the nation. Its about the city when the abomination of desolation happens.

Please explain how the 'all things' becomes 'some things.

That's a great question if the days that all things be fulfilled that is written, then why hasn't the Lord come back. Because only when he comes back will all things written be fulfilled.

 

[DHC]

Hello NoRapture.

You said the following.

DHC I know you posted this to B.A.C but may I ask you about some things here.

Yes NoRapture, this is a forum for discussion and you are most welcome to ask whatever
you feel compelled to ask. I appreciate you reply and will do my best to answer your post.

You asked the following question.

20 “But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near.
Do you believe in this verse Jesus is talking about the abomination of desolation, when he said
the desolation is near?

The phrase 'abomination of desolation' is used exclusively by the prophet Daniel. In order to understand
the prophecies that were given to Daniel, we need to know the intended audience that these prophecies
were addressed to.

Daniel 10
14 Now I have come to make you understand what will happen to your people in the latter days, for the vision
refers to many days yet to come.

The context of Daniel's prophecies are directed to 'your people', i.e., the Hebrews or Israelites.

What will happen to the Israelites is the subject and the formal context of all Daniel's prophecies.

So we now can understand more fully that the time frame 'seventy weeks' is strictly applied to the people
of Israel ('your people').

Daniel 9
24 “Seventy weeks are determined For your people and for your holy city, To finish the transgression, To make
an end of sins, To make reconciliation for iniquity, To bring in everlasting righteousness, To seal up vision and
prophecy, And to anoint the Most Holy.

Has the problem of sin and sin's penalty been addressed by God, has 'an end of sins' occurred?

Romans 8
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death.

Did Christ administer a reconciliation during this 'seventy week' time frame?

Romans 5
11 And not only that, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now
received the reconciliation.

Has an everlasting righteousness been granted to mankind in Christ?

Romans 10
10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

So has the 'all things' been accomplished regarding Israel (your people)?

John 19
28 After this, Jesus, knowing that all things were now accomplished, that the Scripture might be fulfilled, said, “I thirst!”

All things have already been accomplished by Christ, signed, sealed and delivered.

Then you said.

OK DHC the times of the Gentiles has not began yet .

The times of the Gentiles began two thousand years ago NoRapture.

The 'times of the Gentiles' began when God grafted the Gentiles into the New Covenant.

The Gentiles became grafted in to the rich root of the olive tree when Christ died for all humanity.

The desolation of Israel occurs after the natural branches, being the nation of Israel, were grafted out.
Once again the natural branches, or old covenant Israel, were grafted out at the advent of the New Covenant.

Romans 11
19 You will say then, “Branches (Israel) were broken off that I (Gentiles) might be grafted in.

Past tense 'the branches were broken off', physical covenant Israel has been disconnected.

Romans 11
25 For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise
in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles
has come in.

During Paul's era these old covenant branches were already severed. Old covenant Israel rejected
their King, the Christ, and were completely blind to the Light. They had severed themselves from the
rich root of the olive tree.

The Gentiles have ruled Jerusalem for two thousand years and still do today!

The old covenant has passed and is obsolete.

 

[norapture]

DHC what I would like to know is the desolation in Luke 21:20.
The same as the abomination of desolation in Matthew 24:15, and Mark 13:14 ? Cause I believe even thou its in all 3 books that this was the same teaching or prophecy.

And another question do you believe they will be a Antichrist (beast) in the last days ? And do you believe the vision Daniel seen was about the beast in Revelation 17:11 ?

 

[DHC]

Hello NoRapture.

You asked the following question.

DHC what I would like to know is the desolation in Luke 21:20. The same as the abomination of
desolation in Matthew 24:15, and Mark 13:14 ? Cause I believe even thou its in all 3 books that
this was the same teaching or prophecy.

Luke 21
20 “But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near.
21 Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains

Matthew 24
15 “Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing
in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand), 16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the
mountains.

Mark 13
14 “So when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where
it ought not” (let the reader understand), then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.

The 'desolation' in Luke is describing the destruction of the temple and Jerusalem. The 'abomination
of desolation' in Matthew and Mark is also describing exactly the same event as in Luke.

And another question do you believe they will be a Antichrist (beast) in the last days ? And do you
believe the vision Daniel seen was about the beast in Revelation 17:11 ?

Yes I agree NoRapture.

 

[norapture]

DHC thanks for for the reply.
So can we agree in the vision in Daniel 8:17&19 says its for the end of time. And this would mean the abomination of desolation is yet to happen in the end?