Pre, Mid or Post

[Brian_32]

You can not denie Paul said in 1 Thessalonians 4:15 that this was talking about the coming

The only thing you can do is add to scripture by saying that there is 2 more comings , but you won't find where in his word it says coming's with a S cause coming is a single event. But good luck finding it
Or maybe 2 raptures but in all truth you just add all that to fit your believes

Well, how you feel about the Rapture is the same way the Old Testament Jews, and even modern day Jews feel about two advents of the Messiah. Jews to this day are still waiting for the first coming of their Messiah and reject what they believe is an unbiblical teaching of two comings. You and I know that the Bible teaches other wise, even in the Old Testament, whether they can see it or not. I feel the same way about some people not being able to see a pre-trib Rapture.

I don't believe its a salvation issue though, so its something I willing to agree to disagree on.

 

[Brian_32]

Now you said when Jesus said last day he is making a general statement
Be careful what you say, this is just like Satan in the garden when God said they would die then Satan told them surely you won't die.
So surely the Lord didn't mean the last day.
Cause the things you believe doesn't line up with his word at all .

"Day" in Scripture isnt always a literal 24 hour day. Genesis 2:4 (God did it in six days), Psalms 90:4, 2 Peter 3:8

 

[norapture]

Brian don't you know that scripture was written according to what the Holy Spirit had them to write so to say Paul wasn't talking about the trump in Revelation would be to say the Holy Spirit didn't know about the trump in Revelations.

 

[Brian_32]

I have been asked a lot of questions in this thread but have yet to hear a good answer for my first question in this thread. Who are the flesh bodied people that are dying in the Millennium?

 

[norapture]

I have been asked a lot of questions in this thread but have yet to hear a good answer for my first question in this thread. Who are the flesh bodied people that are dying in the Millennium?

Do you believe there will be a resurrection after the thousand years?
Do you believe these people that are resurrected keep living or would you say they die?

Brian I've give a lot if scripture and all I've seen is it deny time after time.
So I would worry more about someone who will deny scripture than having all the answers, cause I don't believe anyone has all the answer.

 

[B-A-C]

Do you believe there will be a resurrection after the thousand years?
Do you believe these people that are resurrected keep living or would you say they die?

I'm not sure who this question is to.. but...

To answer the first question.
Rev 20:5; The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed. This is the first resurrection.

(However if the rapture is before this time, they would be included before the millennium, of course those who die in the tribulation are mentioned separately also)
Rev 7:13; Then one of the elders answered, saying to me, "These who are clothed in the white robes, who are they, and where have they come from?"
Rev 7:14; I said to him, "My lord, you know." And he said to me, "These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

The answer the second question, it depends on how they lived.
John 5:29; and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.

Acts 24:15; having a hope in God, which these men cherish themselves, that there shall certainly be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.

 

[Brian_32]

Brian I've give a lot if scripture and all I've seen is it deny time after time.
So I would worry more about someone who will deny scripture than having all the answers, cause I don't believe anyone has all the answer.

I could just as easily say the same to you. People need to be more cautious about accusing someone of denying Scripture just because they dont subscribe to the same eschatological view points. There is room for disagreement. You know full well the timing of the rapture is something that is debated among many Christians. The fact that there are so many different view points concerning the end times (not everyone is even premillennial) proves that Scripture isn't always explicitly clear about some of these things. There have been many good, God fearing, Bible believing men and women on both sides of the argument.

However, I know people today have the attitude that anyone who disagrees with them is a Bible denying heretic. There are certain things we have to take a firm stance on, where there is no room for disagreement, especially concerning Salvation, but the timing of the rapture isn't one of those things.

 

[Stickz]

SuzanneA: "I am studying the End Times Prophecy. I thought I was a Pre-Trib believer, but then I studied the Post-Trib viewpoint and now I am confused. I can see both sides of these two beliefs. I understand that Clarence Larkins brought in the Pre-Trib theory. Is he legit?:crazy:

Suzanne, I believe that if you will study every topic in the Bible the way that you seem to be studying the "Rapture" you'll do just fine. I am pretty certain that a lot of people never really listen to or try to listen to more than the very first view they ever hear about something Biblical, and I'm sure that sometimes they are even taught that one view on something and further warned by the person teaching them that they would definitely be in the wrong, or doing something foolish, to let anyone else tell them anything different than what they were just taught on the subject etc. Seems more like brainwashing to me, trying to control the information that another person could take in so that they MUST believe one way about something rather than allowing them the freedom, or the free will ( if you will ), to hear all the facts of the case, or in this case the various ways that one could interpret said verses etc, before drawing their own conclusions. The teacher-person may somehow believe that they are only doing what is best for the person, keeping them safe somehow, but is it kindness that is taking place or is it something more like manipulation, control? I could sit here and tell you what I believe to be true about the coming of the Lord, or the "Rapture", and I could try my best to assure you that I have studied every angle on it and know that what I believe is solid truth about the subject, but I would prefer, for your sake, that you read on your own about it and listen to every argument you can hear on it and make up your own mind.

I have given some of my own opinions on the subject in other threads on this site. Read everything you can find on it. Take your time. Honestly, I believe God wants to see if we are willing to put the work in. You know what I mean? The Bible COULD have been written with much clearer instruction, right? So, why wasn't it? The Bible is full of stories about the ways that God tested people, right? I believe the Bible to be another one of those tests. He wants to see how patient we can be, how interested in Him we really are. All the verses that seem to contradict one another? They've caused a lot of people to steer clear of the Bible, or outright attack it. Everything seems to be a test. He that endureth unto the end shall be saved.

 

[ATP]

My belief is that the rapture will occur right after the sixth seal is open in the middle of the seven year trib.

 

[Stickz]

I'm a pre-wrath believer myself.

 

[Chad]

Pre-tribulation is the biblical fact. Generally speaking, our calling is to love, preach the Gospels. Regardless of what your rapture belief, you still need to be a light to the world and share the Gospels.

If you want to read more about this, plenty of useful links here.

Evidence For A PreTribulation Rapture | Talk Jesus
The Rapture of the Church ~ Audio Sermon | Talk Jesus
Rapture | Talk Jesus

 

[Stickz]

Sorry, Chad, but I disagree with you about Pre-tribulation being biblical fact. I've looked over the evidence given for it many times, and while I believe that you have every right to your opinion, I believe I do too, if that is okay with you? I believe that it is biblical fact the believer will go through everything except the wrath because believers weren't appointed to it.

 

[Chad]

@Stickz

That's your choice how you wish to believe. Those links are worth a study though.

 

[Stickz]

I'll look them over, thanks.

 

[Travis]

Sorry, Chad, but I disagree with you about Pre-tribulation being biblical fact.

Over the last 2000 years, I think it's safe to say that the majority of believers who ever lived did not believe in a pre-tribulation rapture. So, whether right or wrong, historically, most have not believed in the pre-tribulation rapture. Theres surely wiggle room to believe either way.

Definitely not the biggest deal at the end of the day though.

Travis

 

[Stickz]

I'm not real big on following the crowds anyway. I do what I think is right not what I think will be more accepted by others.

Revelation 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

This is one explanation of the word "keep" from Revelation 3:10:

Evidence #9: Kept from the hour of testing (Rev. 3:10)

Revelation 3:10 says we will be kept out of the hour of testing which will come upon the whole earth (the Tribulation). Some have wrongly believed "keep" means to keep through, or protect through the Tribulation. Suppose you approach a high voltage area with a sign that says, "Keep Out." Does that mean you can enter and be protected? No, it means you are forbidden from entering the area. But this verse also says He will keep us from the hour of testing. It is not just the testing, but the time period. If a student is excused from a test, he still may have to sit in the class while others take the test. But if he is excused from the hour of testing, he can go home. The Church will be called home before the hour of testing.

while this is another:

G5083 τηρέω from τηρός ( a watch; perhaps akin to G2334 ); to guard ( from loss or injury, properly by keeping the eye upon; and thus differing from G5442, which is properly to prevent escaping; and from G2892, which implies a fortress or full military lines of apparatus ), i.e. to note ( a prophecy; figuratively to fulfill a command ); by implication to detain ( in custody; figuratively to maintain ); by extension to withhold ( for personal ends; figuratively to keep unmarried ):--- hold fast, keep, keeper, serve, preserve, reserve, watch.

 

[ATP]

Pre-tribulation is the biblical fact.

If you were to post your best scripture to support this, what would it be. - ATP

 

[Chad]

If you were to post your best scripture to support this, what would it be. - ATP

I won't do that as I don't think that is the proper way to study any bible subject (especially this magnitude). Context reading is the proper way. I already posted a few links on this earlier in this thread. Check them out, it's worth a good study. After all, this is GOD's Word. Proper teaching is a commandment, not something to take lightly I've learned.

 

[ATP]

I already posted a few links on this earlier in this thread. Check them out, it's worth a good study.

What is the post#.

 

[Chad]

The one you quoted me on this page 7.