Question Catholics.

[Bob Carabbio]

Can you explain the constant need for repentance to another flawed human, a legit commandment to call him "Father", as well as the commandments for confession and "penance" to that flawed human and any authority by that flawed human.
No Catholic only "books" please. No apocrypha and similar that aren't in the rest of the bible versions.

Ignoring Roman Catholic "traditions", 1 John 2:1 indicates that should we SIN as Christians (and we all do) if we CONFESS OUR SIN, then HE is faithful and just to forgive us and cleanse us.
doing it in a Box with a Priest is a Roman Catholic Invention, ans totally unnecessary. God is ever present to hear your confession, and to apply the BLOOD of Jesus' SIN OFFERING to you. The nice priest can't forgive anything EXCEPT sins committed against himself. If the nice Priest is a Christian (some of 'em are) he MIGHT be able to give valuable council to you.

 

[MedicBravo]

@Bob Carabbio No Catholic has ever been able to give a good, legit Bible backed answer with logic and common sense. IDK about you but I don't have the free time and money to spare to fly to the Vatican on the TINY chance I can get answers from the higher ups.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

@Bob Carabbio No Catholic has ever been able to give a good, legit Bible backed answer with logic and common sense. IDK about you but I don't have the free time and money to spare to fly to the Vatican on the TINY chance I can get answers from the higher ups.

You'd get the same answers that the Roman Catholic "true Believers" parrot endlessly on these forums. They're the "ONE AND ONLY TRUE CHURCH", and anybody that questions them "just doesn't understand".

 

[Garee]

All humans have their own spirit.
Jesus' spirit within him as a man was still the Spirit of God come as a man.

How is the Holy Spirit that worked in the Son of man Jesus any different then the same Holy Spirt that works in us ?


There only is one Holy Spirit of sonship by which we can cry out Abba Father that works in all born again. sons of God.

 

[God's Truth]

How is the Holy Spirit that worked in the Son of man Jesus any different then the same Holy Spirt that works in us ?

Okay, let's take this a step back. Tell me, do you believe all humans have their own spirit within them that is them and it lives on after the death of the physical body?

There only is one Holy Spirit of sonship by which we can cry out Abba Father that works in all born again. sons of God.

That Spirit of sonship is also the Spirit of God the Father---they are one and the same one Spirit.
There are scriptures that say the Spirit is the Holy Spirit, and scriptures that call that Spirit the Spirit of God, and other scriptures that say it is the Spirit of Jesus.
There is only one Spirit and it is God the Father, Jesus the Son, and also called the Holy Spirit.

Jesus' spirit within him is the Spirit of God the Father.

When Jesus was on earth, he was baptized with the Holy Spirit with power.

Jesus is God the Father come as a man but when Jesus started his earthly ministry he was given power, the power for miracles.

 

[Garee]

Okay, let's take this a step back. Tell me, do you believe all humans have their own spirit within them that is them and it lives on after the death of the physical body?

If not given a new spirit that will never die. No it returns to the father who gave it temporarily according to the letter of the law. (death) Thou shalt not or you will die .

The lifeless, spiritless body return to the field of clay .

Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

Tell me, do you believe all humans have their own spirit within them that is them and it lives on after the death of the physical body?

 

[Garee]

That Spirit of sonship is also the Spirit of God the Father---they are one and the same one Spirit.
There are scriptures that say the Spirit is the Holy Spirit, and scriptures that call that Spirit the Spirit of God, and other scriptures that say it is the Spirit of Jesus.
There is only one Spirit and it is God the Father, Jesus the Son, and also called the Holy Spirit.

Jesus' spirit within him is the Spirit of God the Father.

When Jesus was on earth, he was baptized with the Holy Spirit with power.

Jesus is God the Father come as a man but when Jesus started his earthly ministry he was given power, the power for miracles.

The Son of man Jesus had the Spirit of God working in him to both will and do the good pleasure of the father .He did the will with delight. The power was not of the Son of man he treasured it in his heart as we do also. Where his heart was leaning on the father there he found his treasure of faith ,

2 Corinthians 4:7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

 

[God's Truth]

If not given a new spirit that will never die.

What does that mean and why couldn't you just answer a yes or no plainly?

No

No?

it returns to the father

No but it returns to the Father?

You just denied that we have a spirit that lives on after the death of our physical body but then you say it returns to the Father!
Is something dead returning to the Father, in your false beliefs?

who gave it temporarily according to the letter of the law. (death) Thou shalt not or you will die .

We all die physically.

The lifeless, spiritless body return to the field of clay .

I am NOT talking about the physical body that DOES return to the earth.

I AM TALKING ABOUT OUR SPIRIT WITHIN ALL THE LIVING.

You want to speak about things of the spirit but you deny we have one that doesn't die and either goes to heaven or hell.
It is like you are trying to be taught by the Jews who reject Jesus to give you knowledge, or the JW's and other death doctrine teachers.

Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

Tell me, do you believe all humans have their own spirit within them that is them and it lives on after the death of the physical body?

You are double talking.
We all have a spirit that leaves our body and goes to God who allows it to go to Him in heaven or to prison/hell.

 

[God's Truth]

The Son of man Jesus had the Spirit of God working in him to both will and do the good pleasure of the father .He did the will with delight. The power was not of the Son of man he treasured it in his heart as we do also. Where his heart was leaning on the father there he found his treasure of faith ,

2 Corinthians 4:7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

Notice you can't go deeper and discuss with me expect repeat your beliefs?

The scriptures say plainly that Jesus IS THE HOLY SPIRIT AND THE HOLY SPIRIT IS THE SPIRIT OF GOD THE FATHER.

Think about that for awhile and then come talk about it more with me.

 

[Garee]

Notice you can't go deeper and discuss with me expect repeat your beliefs?

The scriptures say plainly that Jesus IS THE HOLY SPIRIT AND THE HOLY SPIRIT IS THE SPIRIT OF GOD THE FATHER.

Think about that for awhile and then come talk about it more with me.

No one is denying the Holy Spirit is represented by the father .

Not sure what you mean by deeper than what I believe.?

 

[Garee]

What does that mean and why couldn't you just answer a yes or no plainly?

It means if a person is not given a new born again spirit they will not rise and receive a new incorruptible body propmised to those who do have a new spirit .


Unlike those not born again .there temporal spirit given un the letter of the law (death) it returns to God while the dead bodies return to dust .

It appointed for all men to really die once . No spirit life after their last breath . No sufferings in the dust . No limbo no purgatory .

 

[God's Truth]

No one is denying the Holy Spirit is represented by the father .

Not sure what you mean by deeper than what I believe.?

You said the Holy Spirit is "represented by the father".

Going deeper is about you explaining what you mean.

You said the Holy Spirit is represented by the father. Explain exactly what you mean by that---for the Holy Spirit IS the Father.

 

[God's Truth]

It means if a person is not given a new born again spirit they will not rise and receive a new incorruptible body propmised to those who do have a new spirit .

None of that is clear what are you talking about? That does not answer my question to you and it makes me have other questions needing your explanation.

We are born again after we die to the sins of the world and promise to live to please Jesus.

Unlike those not born again .there temporal spirit given un the letter of the law (death) it returns to God while the dead bodies return to dust .

No such thing as a temporal spirit. Do you have scripture you would like to show? The old law was temporal but that has nothing to do with the spirit being temporal. Sounds like you are confounding two separate things.

It appointed for all men to really die once . No spirit life after their last breath . No sufferings in the dust . No limbo no purgatory .

No you say here we die even our spirit dies after our physical body dies. No wonder you can't understand the things of the spirit if you don't believe our spirit lives on after the death of our bodies. And no wonder you don't understand when I say when Jesus came as a human in the womb of Mary his spirit within him was God the Father's come as a human's.

 

[Garee]

None of that is clear what are you talking about? That does not answer my question to you and it makes me have other questions needing your explanation.

We are born again after we die to the sins of the world and promise to live to please Jesus.

To have been born dead in ones trespass and sin without God in this present world . . . with no work of his own (powerless) is freely given a new heat and new spirit , Is not that hard to understand simply ,trust what the living word says. . not of your own understanding.

EZEkiah 11; 19 And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh: That they may walk in my statutes, and keep mine ordinances, and do them: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God.

Is the phrase I use "temporal spirit" that which makes it hard to understand . The one spirit that returns to God ?

 

[God's Truth]

To have been born dead in ones trespass and sin without God in this present world . . . with no work of his own (powerless) is freely given a new heat and new spirit , Is not that hard to understand simply ,trust what the living word says. . not of your own understanding.

EZEkiah 11; 19 And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh: That they may walk in my statutes, and keep mine ordinances, and do them: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God.

People get a new spirit and a new heart BY OBEYING God and repenting of their sins.

Ezekiel 18:31 Rid yourselves of all the offenses you have committed, and get a new heart and a new spirit. Why will you die, people of Israel?

Is the phrase I use "temporal spirit" that which makes it hard to understand . The one spirit that returns to God ?

There is no such thing in the Bible as a temporal spirit.

 

[Garee]

People get a new spirit and a new heart BY OBEYING God and repenting of their sins.

As in all things Christ must to the first work of creating. as the faithful Creator. People get a new heart so that they can obey. You are putting the cart before the horse

Salvation is a works righteousness performed by the Father and Son . God working in the Son of man Jesus dead, powerless earthen body body .

The Son of man Jesus is powerless .The father giving him ears to hear and the power of His faith (the faith of God) to perform it to the pleasure of God the father .

God is of one mind and always does whatsoever his soul desires .He creates in us a new heart of flesh . No man can turn him as the first work .He turns us .

Philipians 2 :13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. Do all things without murmurings and disputings:

Jesus did the will of the Father with delight some murmur all the way .

There is no such thing in the Bible as a temporal spirit.

The law of the temporal spirit subject to death. . below

Genisis 3: 16 And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Its appointed for all men to die . Not to go into hibernation or suspended animation waiting in Limbo to be reincarnated .

Hebrews 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

Did Adam and Eve die and their bodies return to the dust and the temporal spirit given under the law ?

Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

Again its unbelievers a hierarchy of men that lord it over the faith of the non venerable pew warmers like the Catholics that try and extend grace even after they take their last breath .and continual suffer in Limbo or purgatory for ever and ever with no end in sight . The doctrine of wondering , wondering wondering . . not believing the word of God's prophecy (sola scriptura)

Peter who supported a law of the fathers (Pharisees with Sadaucesss) Two sects that put aside there differences in order to try and make sola scriptura (the living word of God) without effect .(I heard it through the fathers grape vine as a oral traditons of men.

Our brother in the Lord Peter is a good example of a slow learner .

Having just been reinstated again( called to repentance) , In his jealousy of John (jealousy stacks sides) he went to town and started another of the oral traditions of the father . But Jesus did not say John would not die. Its appointed for all men to die once.

Jesus used that opportunity to teach us if every time time he exposed a lie of the oral tradition of the legion of fathers . . under the power of father of lies that we would need a bigger planet to hold the volumes upon volumes .

One warning should be enough.

Catholics say that portion supports the use of oral traditons of a succession of venerable men . Just as the Mathew 16 account when Peter forbid Jesus the Son of man from doing the will of the unseen father.

John 21: 20-25 Then Peter, turning about, seeth the disciple whom Jesus loved following; which also leaned on his breast at supper, and said, Lord, which is he that betrayeth thee? Peter seeing him saith to Jesus, Lord, and what shall this man do ?Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? (in other word don't get your eye on John ) follow thou me. Then went this saying abroad among the brethren, that that disciple should not die: yet Jesus said not unto him, He shall not die; but, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? This is the disciple which testifieth of these things, and wrote these things: and we know that his testimony is true. And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.

The Vatican library is full of (I heard it through the fathers grapevine) and are adding daily. . But they are not a drop in the bucket beginning with the un believing faithless Jew who believe people do not really die and their temporal spirit do not return to the father of all spirits who gave it under the letter of the law death .

A person must be born of a new spirit that will never die .

 

[God's Truth]

As in all things Christ must to the first work of creating. as the faithful Creator. People get a new heart so that they can obey.

I GAVE YOU SCRIPTURE THAT SAYS TO REPENT OF YOUR SINS TO GET A NEW HEART and a NEW SPIRIT, and you still repeat the same false thing you were taught.

Think about it more, for God tells them to repent of their sins and knows they won't and THAT IS WHY THEY WILL DIE.

You say no, God isn't first changing them to be able to obey---YET THAT IS NOWHERE IN THE SCRIPTURES, but it is heavy in the false teachers.

You are putting the cart before the horse

So sad that you were taught wrong and can't see it even when I give you the scripture that plainly says it.

Salvation is a works righteousness performed by the Father and Son .

To those who OBEY and have faith.

Go back to Ezekiel 18:31...with your false distorted teaching, God tells them to repent of their sins first, but you have it that God is telling people this WHO ARE INCAPABLE of repenting of their sins unless He enables them first!!! That is sick.

God working in the Son of man Jesus dead, powerless earthen body body .

You are a Calvinist and or a Lutheran and should repent of that if you want the truth.

The Son of man Jesus is powerless .The father giving him ears to hear and the power of His faith (the faith of God) to perform it to the pleasure of God the father .

Jesus ALWAYS had ears to hear! He gave the Holy Spirit to Elizabeth and her baby in her womb when he, Jesus, was still in Mary's womb.

God is of one mind and always does whatsoever his soul desires .He creates in us a new heart of flesh . No man can turn him as the first work .He turns us .

Philipians 2 :13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. Do all things without murmurings and disputings:

Jesus did the will of the Father with delight some murmur all the way .

You keep speaking the same thing even after being told that that scripture is about someone AFTER they are saved.

The law of the temporal spirit subject to death. . below

NO SCRIPTURE SAYS THAT ANYWHERE.

No such thing as a "temporal spirit".

 

[Garee]

I GAVE YOU SCRIPTURE THAT SAYS TO REPENT OF YOUR SINS TO GET A NEW HEART and a NEW SPIRIT, and you still repeat the same false thing you were taught.

Think about it more, for God tells them to repent of their sins and knows they won't and THAT IS WHY THEY WILL DIE.

You say no, God isn't first changing them to be able to obey---YET THAT IS NOWHERE IN THE SCRIPTURES, but it is heavy in the false teachers.

It appears that you do not know what it means walk by faith (not of our own faith) but exclusively the faith of God .a labor of his love.

As always Christ must to the first work to include moving us that has no power needed to repent. God gave His living abiding word that commands us to believe or repent. If we turn, then his faith is shown as effective. Let there be and as a testimony it was good.

First giving us ears to hear his will but he does no stop there. He then as a loving Father works in us empowering us to perform his good will to his pleasure. Jesus our brother in the Lord said not my will but you one with power.

Jesus did it with delight. Some murmur and put the cart before the horse. as if we turned God to repent and not him doing the work first works

Philippians 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. Do all things without murmurings and disputings:

There is nothing you can outwardly to add or subtract from his powerful faith that works in us.

Does God have enough faith to say “let there be” and. . . . “It was good”?

Just who is it that does work in you that enables you do the will if not God .I

No such thing as a "temporal spirit".

You keep saying that but offer nothing as proof. I have offered any that appose mankind surfers forever with no end (dead)

Does the corrupted spirit we were born with die . Or it cannot die ? And a un believer suffers for ever and ever .