Questions About Talk Jesus's Statement of Faith

[Garee]

Hopefully, those that oppose will see my valid concern for the brethren by the scripture is genuine, because I believed they were saved the moment they believed in the Lord Jesus Christ & that God raised Him from the dead, but got seduced into believing the lie that they can receive the holy Spirit again by that sign of tongues as if they were not complete in Christ in the first place when they got saved.

God point. We walk by faith the unseen will of God who works in us to both reveal and empower . Feeling powerless does not translate powerless. We have the treasure of the authority of God in us but his power is never of us. 2 Corinthians 4:7 .

Hebrew 6 informs us better things accompany salvation other than getting filled over and over, crucifying Christ over and over to public shame as if one demonstration of Jesus and Father was not enough . He in that same chapter promises he will not forget the good works we offer towards His power .

Believers old testament as well as new are filled from the moment God empowers them to believe his word and exercise its power to finish it to his god pleasure


The old testament saints where empowered to look ahead to the cross by the faith of Christ we look back to the same glory .

We are not to glory in the flesh the temporal things seen

1 Peter 1: 8 -11Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory: Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.

 

[PloughBoy]

I am sorry if I over shot you. Just elementary materials for me learn back in 1977 when I was “Born from above” I wanted to know the elementary’s of The Bible”. In one month I read the entire Bible and Introductions of the Biblical text and all of it Tapestries. 3 times I was bless to be able to read the Bible at work for over 6 hours a day and over 4 hours at home for over 4 years straight, it was a gift from GOD to do so. I cannot count how many times from front to back I have read this book every word in more than 4 translations pre 1984. I read biblical encyclopaedias “ISBE” I read lexicons I read Englishman’s Greek & Hebrew concordance Before there was a public domain of the internet. I went without food to buy these books!

Hours upon hours in the religious reference libraries close doors library private sections. Even with my baby children in stroller and in tow catching buses to get there. Personal investigations because I didn’t trust pastors and religious leaders. And I proclaim before that, to GOD before I was “Born From GOD” if I was to know HIM He has to reveal Himself to me. HE DID! Big Time among hundreds and I was not in a church building or among religious rulers.
I experience a “Theophany” and the Theologians, well known Harvard, Yale, Virginia Union, Union Theological Seminary had to tell me what had happen to me because had never seen or heard of such a event that they knew, but it happens.
So I do have to remember that sometimes I will “fire the arrow beyond you”
My bad, and I mean no harm.
Elementary:
2 Corinthians letter wrote “AD 57”, Revelation letter written around
“AD” 95.
A good and excellent reference bible pre 1984 should have this information in it on the introduction page of each Book or Letter in the Bible. You most likely have read it over a 1000 times in 10 years every time you read one of the letters or book of the Bible, I always sees the introduction pages when I think of a thought that comes from a certain comment coming from that writer or book. And the meaning of that book or the reason the letter was written never seems to eludes me.
Jonathan Edwards said a great theologian once said, if should events takes place in your life fret not and do not be alarm of your dilemma when you cannot but study so hard and others do not, “It is a Gift from GOD” and that quote from “Edwards” ease my pains of study when others don’t, many years ago.

Just like one of your favorite “Authors” writings. No matter what you read if it is a quote or a print you can tell by the flavor of the writer who it is.
The is why the controversy about the writer of The Book to Hebrews, it does not have the flavor of Apostles Paul past Writings when you read it. But just maybe he did used another “Amanuensis” now that makes sense to me.

not taking away from your thoughts but blending in.

So those things that seem foreign cast it off that I spoke.
PS. I said “Circe” not “circle”. And very old conversation no need to bring it back up here.

 

[GodB4Us]

I am sorry if I over shot you. Just elementary materials for me learn back in 1977 when I was “Born from above” I wanted to know the elementary’s of The Bible”. In one month I read the entire Bible and Introductions of the Biblical text and all of it Tapestries. 3 times I was bless to be able to read the Bible at work for over 6 hours a day and over 4 hours at home for over 4 years straight, it was a gift from GOD to do so. I cannot count how many times from front to back I have read this book every word in more than 4 translations pre 1984. I read biblical encyclopaedias “ISBE” I read lexicons I read Englishman’s Greek & Hebrew concordance Before there was a public domain of the internet. I went without food to buy these books!

Hours upon hours in the religious reference libraries close doors library private sections. Even with my baby children in stroller and in tow catching buses to get there. Personal investigations because I didn’t trust pastors and religious leaders. And I proclaim before that, to GOD before I was “Born From GOD” if I was to know HIM He has to reveal Himself to me. HE DID! Big Time among hundreds and I was not in a church building or among religious rulers.
I experience a “Theophany” and the Theologians, well known Harvard, Yale, Virginia Union, Union Theological Seminary had to tell me what had happen to me because had never seen or heard of such a event that they knew, but it happens.
So I do have to remember that sometimes I will “fire the arrow beyond you”
My bad, and I mean no harm.

I am glad that the Father had revealed His Son to you for when you had believe in Him & got saved.

Elementary:
2 Corinthians letter wrote “AD 57”, Revelation letter written around
“AD” 95.

Have you discerned how they were determining that? By age of manuscripts? By a reference? An educated guess? Because 2 Corinthians 12:1-4 has Paul indirectly testifying about the apostle John & the Book of Revelations as if it was written before his second epistle that no man should utter.

2 Corinthians 12:1 It is not expedient for me doubtless to glory. I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord. 2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth such an one caught up to the third heaven. 3 And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth 4 How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

A good and excellent reference bible pre 1984 should have this information in it on the introduction page of each Book or Letter in the Bible. You most likely have read it over a 1000 times in 10 years every time you read one of the letters or book of the Bible, I always sees the introduction pages when I think of a thought that comes from a certain comment coming from that writer or book. And the meaning of that book or the reason the letter was written never seems to eludes me.
Jonathan Edwards said a great theologian once said, if should events takes place in your life fret not and do not be alarm of your dilemma when you cannot but study so hard and others do not, “It is a Gift from GOD” and that quote from “Edwards” ease my pains of study when others don’t, many years ago.

Just like one of your favorite “Authors” writings. No matter what you read if it is a quote or a print you can tell by the flavor of the writer who it is.
The is why the controversy about the writer of The Book to Hebrews, it does not have the flavor of Apostles Paul past Writings when you read it. But just maybe he did used another “Amanuensis” now that makes sense to me.

Mayne because Paul was addressing believers from Jewish background in the Book of Hebrews, but we can see one of the connections here when Paul referred to running that race.

Hebrews 12:1Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us, 2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

1 Corinthians 9:24 Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain. 25 And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible. 26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air: 27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

There is also another connection per that reference to Timothy which Paul in his other epistles is associated with.

Hebrews 13:22 And I beseech you, brethren, suffer the word of exhortation: for I have written a letter unto you in few words. 23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty; with whom, if he come shortly, I will see you.

So I am thinking that flavor you are detecting may be by how he was writing to former Jews that were now believers in Jesus Christ.

not taking away from your thoughts but blending in.

I do not mind your sharing what you have learned but as you did mention not trusting pastors & leaders and such to teach you, but the Lord, one should also rely on Him to make sure that which you have learned is the truth.

I do not even trust myself for why I trust in Jesus Christ as the Truth to lead me in all truths through the Holy Spirit in me.

1 John 2:20 But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things. 21 I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth........ 26 These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you. 27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him. 28 And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.

One time I had thought I had learned that when we were not to worship the Holy Ghost but the Son only, I was wrong to think that included the Father, but scripture says the only way to honor the Father is by honoring the Son, and when we are honoring the Holy Spirit, then we are not honoring the Son and thereby not honoring the Father per the last portion of verse 23 in John 5:22-23 Indeed, this mind of Christ we are to have in worship was the obedience Paul was talking about in his absence that we are to honor and glorify the Son in worship which is to the glory of God the Father in Philippians 2:5-13

So even the Lord had to correct me on my learning to bear more fruit in the knowledge of Him in His words as scripure cannot go against scripture as there can be no lie of the truth when we rightly divide the word with Him.

So those things that seem foreign cast it off that I spoke.
PS. I said “Circe” not “circle”. And very old conversation no need to bring it back up here.

Okay. Thanks for sharing.

 

[B-A-C]

Mayne because Paul was addressing believers from Jewish background in the Book of Hebrews, but we can see one of the connections here when Paul referred to running that race.

There is no proof that Paul wrote Hebrews. It's possible he did, but only God knows for sure.

 

[Curtis]

The Holy Spirit is God by whom we worship God the Father, and God the Son No one can worship God without the direction, or leading of the Holy Spirit who is God.

 

[GodB4Us]

@Christ4Ever @Chad And any other member of staff; can you clarify or confirm that portion of the Statement of Faith asked about in the OP ?

 

[B-A-C]

Statement of Faith

Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me. If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself. John 7:16,17 Inspiration of Scriptures We believe that the Holy Bible is the written Word of the...

www.talkjesus.com

 

[Christ4Ever]

@Christ4Ever @Chad And any other member of staff; can you clarify or confirm that portion of the Statement of Faith asked about in the OP ?

Dear GodB4Us,
First you have to remember that this statement of faith was written back in 2005. Meaning that Talk Jesus has been around a while!! Glory be to God!! Which means it actually predates even myself, and I've been here since 2007.

To reiterate the portion of the Statement of Faith that you have questions on. Let me first quote the portion that you are asking about which is on Baptism.

Baptism
We believe the baptism in the Holy Spirit, with the evidence of speaking in other tongues as the Spirit gives utterance (1 Corinthians 14), is for all believers as promised by John the Baptist (Matthew 3:11), Jesus (Acts 1:4-8), and Peter(Acts 2:38-41). The fulfillment of this promise was witnessed by early disciples of Christ (Acts 2:4, 10:44-47, 19:1-6) and operates in many present-day disciples of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Now let see if I can move over the pertinent question/s that you posed in your opening post.

Are you saying that every one that gets baptized in the Holy Spirit, will speak in tongues?

Are you saying that if a believer does not speak in tongues, they do not have the Holy Spirit and so they are not saved?

If you were to breakdown the paragraph on Baptism, you would find that the answer to your initial question would be no. I've highlighted the part that should show you that the speaking of tongues is not necessarily something that everyone does. I for one, have never spoken in tongues. You can take that for what it worth (shrug).

With that being said, the rest of what you have written is really just dealing with assumptions derived if the answer to your initial question were to be yes, which of course is not the case. However, if that weren't enough you could have gone to the portion of the SOF that says "Salvation". I've copied it below for your edification.

Salvation
We believe the terms of salvation are repentance toward God for sin and a personal, heartfelt faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. This is how the new birth occurs, which I call being "born again." Salvation is possible only through God's grace, not by our works. Works are simply the fruit of salvation (Acts 3:19,20; Romans 4:1-5, 5:1; Ephesians 2:8-10). Water Baptism should immediately follow the experience of the new birth as a public witness to one's faith (Mark 16:16, Acts 2:38).

As you can see, there is nothing about tongues in that paragraph, or that hints at it as being necessary part for being Saved.

I hope this answered your question. My apologies for taking so long in getting to this.

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
Moderator
Nick
\o/
<><

 

[GodB4Us]

Statement of Faith

Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me. If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself. John 7:16,17 Inspiration of Scriptures We believe that the Holy Bible is the written Word of the...

www.talkjesus.com

Asking for clarification on how they are applying His words is not wrong since scripture cannot go against scripture when obviously Paul said not all speak in tongues and tongues were not to serve as a sign to believers for anything; not for proof of salvation; not for proof that God is calling them into the ministry like Joyce Meyers had done, and not for proof that they are keeping the doctrine in the church as the early Catholic Church had done earlier in their history.

1 Corinthians 12:29 Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles? 30 Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret? 31 But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.

That is Paul testifying that tongues are not always accompanying a believer's salvation for then he could not say that.

1 Corinthians 14:20 Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men. 21 In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord.

That is Paul giving the bottom line on what God's gift of tongues are for; for God to speak unto the people in their native tongue through His servants.

22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.

That is Paul testifying tongues are not to serve as a sign nor roof to the believers for anything, but to serve as a sign to unbelievers.

Hebrews 11:1Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. 2 For by it the elders obtained a good report.

Galatians 3:14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith. ( not by a sign of tongues )

Galatians 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. ( not by a sign of tongues )

Thank you for attempting to answer the OP, but hopefully you can see that just citing that as if there are no contrary scripture to oppose how that one section as seemingly being applied or misread by me, answers the questions.

 

[GodB4Us]

Dear GodB4Us,
First you have to remember that this statement of faith was written back in 2005. Meaning that Talk Jesus has been around a while!! Glory be to God!! Which means it actually predates even myself, and I've been here since 2007.

To reiterate the portion of the Statement of Faith that you have questions on. Let me first quote the portion that you are asking about which is on Baptism.

Left out of quote for easier to read for my reply to you and others that may read this.

Baptism
We believe the baptism in the Holy Spirit, with the evidence of speaking in other tongues as the Spirit gives utterance (1 Corinthians 14), is for all believers as promised by John the Baptist (Matthew 3:11), Jesus (Acts 1:4-8), and Peter(Acts 2:38-41). The fulfillment of this promise was witnessed by early disciples of Christ (Acts 2:4, 10:44-47, 19:1-6) and operates in many present-day disciples of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Now let see if I can move over the pertinent question/s that you posed in your opening post.

If you were to breakdown the paragraph on Baptism, you would find that the answer to your initial question would be no. I've highlighted the part that should show you that the speaking of tongues is not necessarily something that everyone does.

I see your highlighted part but the beginning of that statement seems to infer and implied that all the early disciples of Christ had witnessed this before citing it for many disciples today.

"The fulfillment of this promise was witnessed by early disciples of Christ (Acts 2:4, 10:44-47, 19:1-6) and operates in many present-day disciples of the Lord Jesus Christ."

Not to mention how the statement began which testified that this promise of the baptism with the Holy Spirit with evidence of speaking in tongues was for all believers.

"We believe the baptism in the Holy Spirit, with the evidence of speaking in other tongues as the Spirit gives utterance (1 Corinthians 14), is for all believers as promised by John the Baptist (Matthew 3:11), Jesus (Acts 1:4-8), and Peter(Acts 2:38-41).

So kind of hard me to see that "no" still for why I was asking for clarification.

I for one, have never spoken in tongues. You can take that for what it worth (shrug).

Neither have I albeit Don Reed from Crossing Paths Ministry had told me that I was to babble and then the gift of tongues will come... which it never did and I stopped because I did not want it to become second nature to me as doing it out of habit. So Biblically, I had never spoken in God's gift of tongues. That was many years ago.... in the 1980's. I do not know if he has changed his stance on that now or not, but that is what he had told me back then in one of his worship service.

With that being said, the rest of what you have written is really just dealing with assumptions derived if the answer to your initial question were to be yes, which of course is not the case. However, if that weren't enough you could have gone to the portion of the SOF that says "Salvation". I've copied it below for your edification.

Salvation
We believe the terms of salvation are repentance toward God for sin and a personal, heartfelt faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. This is how the new birth occurs, which I call being "born again." Salvation is possible only through God's grace, not by our works. Works are simply the fruit of salvation (Acts 3:19,20; Romans 4:1-5, 5:1; Ephesians 2:8-10). Water Baptism should immediately follow the experience of the new birth as a public witness to one's faith (Mark 16:16, Acts 2:38).

As you can see, there is nothing about tongues in that paragraph, or that hints at it as being necessary part for being Saved.

Hopefully, you can see how the reading of the section on Baptism can be ambiguous to that section as inferring what is to take place before in order to be saved but afterwards is the baptism with the Holy Ghost with evidence of tongues.

Also, I find that the only repentance required is to repent from unbelief by believing in Jesus Christ for salvation as there are many scriptures to that cause & effect; John 3:15-18 as this is the Father's will John 6:37-40 as this pleases God to save those that believe the preaching of the cross 1 Corinthians 1:21 . Discipleship is afterwards by trusting Jesus Christ as the author & finisher of our faith to help us lay aside every weight & sin daily, but not to gain salvation, but to run as saved believers in living that reconciled relationship with God through Jesus Christ as He enables us to walk in the light in fellowship with the father & the Son so that we may bear fruit and our joy may be full.

I used to work with a woman that had believed she had to clean up her life first before coming to Jesus Christ and I had told her that she is to come to Jesus Christ now because that is also what Jesus came to do, to deliver sinners from their sins. She did not believe me but the next day, whomever else she had talked to, she was beaming with the joy of her salvation when announcing that I was right. It was good to see what the Lord as done for her.

Not to mention that the Gentiles had any time to repent of all sins, or confess Him with their mouths or come forward to be water baptized as they heard the word and believed what Peter has said when they got saved.

Acts 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins. 44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

There are a lot of members that have posted that repenting from all sins is required before coming to and believing in Jesus Christ. Although I believe sinners should be told that Jesus can and will deliver them from their bondage to sin and to death and they should believe in Him for that and not jus for eternal life, that ambiguous call to repent from all sins may very well have been the reason why that woman believed she had to clean up her life first before coming to Jesus.

Although I had missed that section on salvation about "repentance towards God for sin" , because of members believing a sinner "must" repent from all sins before coming to Jesus, I have to say that section is ambiguous as well.

John 1: 12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

We have to receive Him by believing in Him and then with Him in us, we have power to live as His for we were not born by the will of the flesh nor by the will of man as if man had power to repent from all sins before salvation, for then what would we need Jesus for if we could? The Jews would be able to keep the law and Christ had died in vain, but He did not because no matter how much the spirit is willing, the flesh is weak, therefore what is impossible for man, is possible with God by faith in Jesus Christ.

Romans 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

1 John 3:3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.... 8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

2 Timothy 4:18 And the Lord shall deliver me from every evil work, and will preserve me unto his heavenly kingdom: to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

Jude 1:24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, 25 To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.

I have heard of Jesus delivering sinners from their sins at their salvation because they were given that hope to believe in Jesus for that and not just for eternal life. Believing in Him as in hoping in Him for all things is all that is needed for sinners to come for salvation.

It is because there are members that insists that sinners must repent from all sins when coming to & believing in Jesus Christ is why that section on Salvation is ambiguous also when sinners should have their hope also on Jesus for that

I hope this answered your question. My apologies for taking so long in getting to this.

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
Moderator
Nick
\o/
<><

I thank you for answering my questions.

I am not sure if my reply has garnered a necessity for the Staff to clarify that Statement of Faith or not, due to how some members are posting in here, not just for them saying repenting from all sins when coming to Jesus in other threads, but how some believe that tongues will accompany all believers that are saved as seemingly being defended by some posters in this thread.

John 15:2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

I am hoping that Jesus will enable the staff to clarify the Statement of Faith more perfectly in the hopes that it will prune members to bear more fruit in Him.

Acts 18:24 And a certain Jew named Apollos, born at Alexandria, an eloquent man, and mighty in the scriptures, came to Ephesus. 25 This man was instructed in the way of the Lord; and being fervent in the spirit, he spake and taught diligently the things of the Lord, knowing only the baptism of John. 26 And he began to speak boldly in the synagogue: whom when Aquila and Priscilla had heard, they took him unto them, and expounded unto him the way of God more perfectly. 27 And when he was disposed to pass into Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him: who, when he was come, helped them much which had believed through grace: 28 For he mightily convinced the Jews, and that publicly, shewing by the scriptures that Jesus was Christ.

I believe verse 26 was when Apollos was saved when Aquila & Priscilla served the Lord as the Lord helped him to understand the way of God more perfectly by way of Jesus Christ since afterwards, Apollos began serving Him but no longer as a Jew.

Seems the staff need His help to expound the Statement of Faith more perfectly for some believers here to know.

Thank you for your time & service.

 

[Garee]

Neither have I albeit Don Reed from Crossing Paths Ministry had told me that I was to babble and then the gift of tongues will come... which it never did and I stopped because I did not want it to become second nature to me as doing it out of habit. So Biblically, I had never spoken in God's gift of tongues. That was many years ago.... in the 1980's. I do not know if he has changed his stance on that now or not, but that is what he had told me back then in one of his worship service.

Tongues is prophecy the gospel.. the understanding coming from God . We preach the gospel with our new tongue planting the incorruptible seed and others can water it with the doctrines of God . But we are considered as nothing .

If God unseen does not cause the increase if any then our new tongue the gospel was not empowered by God to work in others. because some believe not we do no lose our reward of salvation .The gospel cast out demons and not words without meaning.

No such thing as a sign gift. Spiritual gifts not seen yes!!!

Jesus said its an evil generation that does seek after sounds without meaning.

Mark 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

 

[Christ4Ever]

I am not sure if my reply has garnered a necessity for the Staff to clarify that Statement of Faith or not, due to how some members are posting in here, not just for them saying repenting from all sins when coming to Jesus in other threads, but how some believe that tongues will accompany all believers that are saved as seemingly being defended by some posters in this thread.

Dear GodB4Us,
Thank-you for your concern and understanding. It is never easy attempting to satisfy everyone's inquiries on why something is done/said in a particular way. It is no little thing but somehow expected since as believers we see this almost constantly by how they see/interpret Scripture. Just looking at the threads created and posted by members in the forums is reflective of this. Our need to know "why" seems to be a part of our very DNA. Such inquisitiveness that I wonder that God may not have second thoughts about giving us such a characteristic!

Anyway, the Statement of Faith can't be driven by how others may interpret it, since it is given to the writer in prayer to put in place. That may not satisfy many, but our Administrator who was moved to start Talk Jesus years ago was also moved to put together the Statement of Faith that is now in place. I can't personally say if changes were done since its initial inception, but I'm sure that the constant questioning of it over the years is the reason for thread having been closed. I guess the rest of the forums provided are sufficient room for any questions to be asked, though I'm sure they are not enough to necessarily have everyone's' questions answered to their satisfaction. I have come to realize, that you can't please everyone, so if you can please God, then the rest falls into place regardless of whether the rest agree with you or not.

Again, thank-you for your inquiry, and I pray and hope that my responses have not left you wanting.

With the Love of Christ Jesus Your Servant Moderator.
Nick
\o/
<><

P.S. You'll have to excuse me Brother if I don't get involved in the back and forth on this thread. I'm sure I'm leaving it in the capable hands of others to debate. \o/

 

[GodB4Us]

Tongues is prophecy the gospel.. the understanding coming from God . We preach the gospel with our new tongue planting the incorruptible seed and others can water it with the doctrines of God . But we are considered as nothing .

In the assembly, tongues can be used for others ways too but still needed to be interpreted for the tongue speaker to understand that tongue and benefit from that tongue too in being fruitful

1 Corinthians 14:12 Even so ye, forasmuch as ye are zealous of spiritual gifts, seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church.

13 Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret.

14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.

15 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.

16 Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest?

17 For thou verily givest thanks well, but the other is not edified.

If God unseen does not cause the increase if any then our new tongue the gospel was not empowered by God to work in others. because some believe not we do no lose our reward of salvation .The gospel cast out demons and not words without meaning.

No such thing as a sign gift. Spiritual gifts not seen yes!!!

Jesus said its an evil generation that does seek after sounds without meaning.

Mark 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

Saved believers seeking to receive the Holy Ghost apart from salvation by a sign of tongues are committing spiritual adultery.

Matthew 12:39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:

1 Timothy 4:1Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; 2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

The hypocrisy is even though they acknowledge the holy Ghost is in them since salvation, they believe the lie that they can receive Him again by a sign in hypocrisy.

2 Corinthians 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. 4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

2 Corinthians 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

Isaiah 8:19 And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead?

Revelation 2:18 And unto the angel of the church in Thyatira write; These things saith the Son of God, who hath his eyes like unto a flame of fire, and his feet are like fine brass; 19 I know thy works, and charity, and service, and faith, and thy patience, and thy works; and the last to be more than the first.

20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols. 21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.

22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds. 23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.

24 But unto you I say, and unto the rest in Thyatira, as many as have not this doctrine, and which have not known the depths of Satan, as they speak; I will put upon you none other burden.

25 But that which ye have already hold fast till I come.

 

[GodB4Us]

Dear GodB4Us,
Thank-you for your concern and understanding. It is never easy attempting to satisfy everyone's inquiries on why something is done/said in a particular way. It is no little thing but somehow expected since as believers we see this almost constantly by how they see/interpret Scripture. Just looking at the threads created and posted by members in the forums is reflective of this. Our need to know "why" seems to be a part of our very DNA. Such inquisitiveness that I wonder that God may not have second thoughts about giving us such a characteristic!

Anyway, the Statement of Faith can't be driven by how others may interpret it, since it is given to the writer in prayer to put in place. That may not satisfy many, but our Administrator who was moved to start Talk Jesus years ago was also moved to put together the Statement of Faith that is now in place. I can't personally say if changes were done since its initial inception, but I'm sure that the constant questioning of it over the years is the reason for thread having been closed. I guess the rest of the forums provided are sufficient room for any questions to be asked, though I'm sure they are not enough to necessarily have everyone's' questions answered to their satisfaction. I have come to realize, that you can't please everyone, so if you can please God, then the rest falls into place regardless of whether the rest agree with you or not.

Again, thank-you for your inquiry, and I pray and hope that my responses have not left you wanting.

With the Love of Christ Jesus Your Servant Moderator.
Nick
\o/
<><

P.S. You'll have to excuse me Brother if I don't get involved in the back and forth on this thread. I'm sure I'm leaving it in the capable hands of others to debate. \o/

Thank you for your time & service in explaining the situation.

I shall leave it to the Lord to lead the Administrator in the matter.

Thanks again.

 

[Samson2020]

20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.

What does committing fornication and eating things sacrificed to idols have to do with personal prayer tongues?

 

[B-A-C]

The hypocrisy is even though they acknowledge the holy Ghost is in them since salvation, they believe the lie that they can receive Him again by a sign in hypocrisy.

Infilling vs Baptism in the Holy Spirit

The 120 people in the upper room in Acts 2. The 11 apostles (minus Judas) and Mary were there. Were they saved before this day? The apostles had already been following Jesus for 3 years. Were they ever baptized in the Holy Spirit before this day? OK, so that was the first time for anyone...

www.talkjesus.com

 

[GodB4Us]

What does committing fornication and eating things sacrificed to idols have to do with personal prayer tongues?

Saved believers seeking to receive the Holy Ghost apart from salvation by a sign of tongues are committing spiritual adultery.

Matthew 12:39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:

It has been prophesied that some may depart from faith to give heed to seducing spirits & doctrines of devils when they believe the lie that already saved believers believe they can receive the Holy Spirit by a sign of tongues, that kind of tongues found in the occult as gibberish nonsense as the Bible confirms.

1 Timothy 4:1Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; 2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

Isaiah 8:19 And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead?

Again, this is pertaining to the workings of Satan for why many will fall away from the faith in Jesus Christ for why God permits the strong delusion to occur for believing that lie.

2 Thessalonians 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

Paul points out that this iniquity that will cause this falling away from the faith in the latter days in droves, was happening even in his day;

7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. <--- If believers believe the lie that they can receive the Holy Spirit again, God will remove the restraining part of the Holy Spirit and allow other spirits to come into the believer for departing from the traditions taught of us for the only time we will receive that sanctification of the Spirit & the belief of the truth which is at the calling of the gospel.

9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth: 14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. 15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

There is no loss of salvation in regards to this damnation because Paul goes on to the next chapter addressing those that have fallen away from the faith that the Lord commands us to withdraw from them 2 Thessalonians 3:1-7 but not to treat them as the enemy, but to admonish them as brothers ( 2 Thessalonians 3:15-15 ) because they are still saved when excommunicated by the church and even when Christ excommunicate them from the Marriage Supper if they are still unrepented.

That is why Jesus is warning one of His churches to repent or else.

Revelation 2:18 And unto the angel of the church in Thyatira write; These things saith the Son of God, who hath his eyes like unto a flame of fire, and his feet are like fine brass; 19 I know thy works, and charity, and service, and faith, and thy patience, and thy works; and the last to be more than the first.

20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols. 21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.

22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds. 23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.

24 But unto you I say, and unto the rest in Thyatira, as many as have not this doctrine, and which have not known the depths of Satan, as they speak; I will put upon you none other burden.

Note verse 24 about how addressing those astray "indirectly" are the ones that have known the depths of Satan as they speak like mediums do in gibberish nonsense.

Like it or not, we are not to believe every spirit but test them per 1 John 4:1-4 as He is in us as opposed to the spirit felt outside of us or coming over us again, even when bringing tongues for why God's gift of tongues can never sound like the pagan's supernatural tongues of gibberish nonsense which is why many assume it is for private use when in actuality, it is not the real God's gift of tongues and neither was that extra phenomenon that brought it either.

Believers need to repent of this spiritual fornication because we are to relate to God the Father through the Bridegroom ( John 14:6 ) and not by way of that spirit ( John 10:1-5 ) by following a stranger's tongue which no interpretation can be given because it is gibberish nonsense. So call on Jesus to deliver you from this tongue and that spirit and pray normally before that throne of grace because the Bridegroom will be coming soon so be ready as found abiding in Him or else, be left behind to de, but their spirits will be with the Lord in Heaven to await for their resurrection after the great tribulation as vessels unto dishonor in His House for not having departed from iniquity before He comes.

 

[Samson2020]

Saved believers seeking to receive the Holy Ghost apart from salvation by a sign of tongues are committing spiritual adultery.

I would have to perceive that you are not really speaking to us on this forum as we never sought confirmation, that ability came with the infilling.

Again, this is pertaining to the workings of Satan for why many will fall away from the faith in Jesus Christ for why God permits the strong delusion to occur for believing that lie.

How do you arrive at the conclusion that tongues is the great delusion sent because they loved not the truth? Could it not be another doctrinal error?

Paul points out that this iniquity that will cause this falling away from the faith in the latter days in droves, was happening even in his day;

Maybe i'm reading you wrong but 2 Thess you quoted is speaking to the returning of the Lord, nothing to do with tongues.

7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

The Mystery of Iniquity has nothing whatsoever to do with tongues. It has everything to do with why iniquity still exists and is used to mature the saints(elect), even though
Jesus has defeated satan and has assumed His position at the right hand of the Father.

I can appreciate your zeal but it is misguided for the majority of us on this site.

 

[GodB4Us]

Infilling vs Baptism in the Holy Spirit

The 120 people in the upper room in Acts 2. The 11 apostles (minus Judas) and Mary were there. Were they saved before this day? The apostles had already been following Jesus for 3 years. Were they ever baptized in the Holy Spirit before this day? OK, so that was the first time for anyone...

www.talkjesus.com

From your thread at that link

The 120 people in the upper room in Acts 2. The 11 apostles (minus Judas) and Mary were there.
Were they saved before this day? The apostles had already been following Jesus for 3 years.
Were they ever baptized in the Holy Spirit before this day?

OK, so that was the first time for anyone (except Jesus and John the Baptist (Luke 1:15)) to be baptized in the Holy Spirit.

The 120 in that upper room was when they had been saved by faith in Jesus Christ. That was he promise from Jesus for when any one was born again of the Spirit when it was to occur after His ascension which was after His cruv=cifixon for when any one that believes in Him has everlasting life. John 3:7-18

This scripture is left out of quote for easier to read.

John 7:39; But this He spoke of the Spirit, whom those who believed in Him were to receive; for the Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.

When Jesus had ascended was when He was glorified as God for His disciples went away worshipping Him after that.

Luke 24:49 And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high. 50 And he led them out as far as to Bethany, and he lifted up his hands, and blessed them. 51 And it came to pass, while he blessed them, he was parted from them, and carried up into heaven. 52 And they worshipped him, and returned to Jerusalem with great joy: 53 And were continually in the temple, praising and blessing God. Amen.

Also, this scripture below from your thread confirms that Pentecost was when they got saved.

John 16:7; "But I tell you the truth, it is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I go, I will send Him to you.

In Acts 10, we have a Gentile named Cornelius, who was a devout God fearing man who prayed continually. (Acts 10:1-2; )
But Cornelius and his family aren't baptized with the Holy Spirit until Acts 10:44-46;

But until then Cornelius and his family were not saved until then in Acts 10:44-46.

In Acts 19, Paul runs across some disciples at Ephesus (Acts 19:1; )
They were believers that had already been baptized in water (John's Baptism) but they didn't even know there was
a Holy Spirit. They don't receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit until Acts 19:6;

They were not believers in Jesus Christ because if they were, they would be under the water baptism in Jesus's name. These were disciples of john the Baptist's for why Paul had to tell them about Jesus as being the One that John the Baptist was preaching about and then they got water baptized in Jesus's name and got saved.

No one in the Bible received the baptism of the Holy Spirit at the instant they were saved.

Cornelius did in Acts 10:43-44

Saul (who became Paul) meets Jesus on the road to Damascus, in Acts 9:3-7;
But Paul doesn't receive the Holy Spirit until at least 3 days later ( Acts 9:17; )

Only because God had to provide a witness to his salvation, otherwise, who would believe Paul? As it was God sent someone telling that person that God plans to use Paul for ministry unto the Gentiles.

In Acts 8 Philip and Peter go to Samaria. Some people there had already "received" the word fo God.
They had already been baptized in the name of Jesus ( Acts 8:16; )
But they don't receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit until Acts 8:17;

Hence water baptism has nothing to do with salvation, but it was Philip that was preaching to these people and water baptizing them in His name but they were only believing the "things" Philip was preaching about and not actually believing in Jesus Christ yet for salvation. They were following Philip around out of fanfare just as Simon the sorcerer was as their mentality was on Philip doing these miracles rather than Jesus Christ. Even afterwards when Peter & john was sent down so that they may receive the holy Ghost, Simon still saw this as coming from man that he had thought he could buy that power from Peter & John. When Peter & John rebuked him that this power was not of man but of God, he then asked them to pray for him that he would be forgiven for this offense towards God.

God was being patience in drawing them unto the Son as they needed their eyes lifted off of His servants to Jesus Christ in coming to & believing in Him for salvation.

As it was, Luke did testify in Acts that they had not the Holy Ghost at all and so you cannot apply that to be about 2 receptions of the Holy Spirit as if born again of the Spirit and baptism with the Holy Ghost are 2 separate events.

Acts 5:32; "And we are witnesses of these things; and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey Him."

In all 5 instances above, people were saved for a while before they were baptized in the Holy Spirit.
There is no place in the Bible it says people get baptized in the Holy Spirit just because they believe in Jesus.

Acts 10:43-44 is that testimomy and Jesus did tell Nicodemus when that born again of the Spirit will happen; when anyone believes in Him after His ascension; John 3:7-18

In fact even the demons believe, but that doesn't mean they have the Holy Spirit. ( James 2:19; )

Jesus tells a parable about the persistence of asking for things over and over until you get an answer. He ends that parable with this sentence.

Luke 11:13; "If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him?"

The problem with that, in context of Luke 11:9-13, once they have received the Holy Ghost for knocking at the door of Jesus Christ, they will never ask for Him again. That was His point in verse 11 & 12 below.

Luke 11:9 And I say unto you, Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you. 10 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.

11 If a son shall ask bread of any of you that is a father, will he give him a stone? or if he ask a fish, will he for a fish give him a serpent? 12 Or if he shall ask an egg, will he offer him a scorpion?

13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?

 

[GodB4Us]

I would have to perceive that you are not really speaking to us on this forum as we never sought confirmation, that ability came with the infilling.

Not every one does, but they may have heard of such events in passing, wondering in the back of their minds why it has not happened to them yet.

Like my former neighbor across the street. She was telling me one day that she was reading her Bible at the kitchen table when the Holy Spirit came over her and she spoke in tongues. She went on to proclaim that was when she was saved because she got the Holy Spirit & tongues all at once.

So I had asked her what she was reading that led her to believe in Jesus Christ. At first she did not know what I had meant and then it don on her as she continues her testimony. She had asked her pastor what had happened because she had been a believer most of her life. The pastor pointed to something in Acts but she did not tell me what place in Acts. I assume Acts 2 but I don't really know. Then she went on to share that other people were sharing their testimonies also for how they were doing every day things when the Holy Ghost fell on them and spoke in tongues too. When she told me that, she rolled here eyes while doing so as if indicating she did not believe some of what she had heard if any at all.

I told her that was not the Holy Spirit and her face had fallen. I pointed out about that false teaching of those who do not speak in tongues, do not have the Holy Spiri, and therefore they are not saved and she had agreed with me that this was a false teaching but yet I pointed out that it would be very hard for her to stop those from using her testimony to support that false teaching.

So it is true not every one seeks confirmation of salvation by tongues when they come forward although some have shared in here that they had, and also true that some will take that same event that my neighbor had experienced but apply it as a sign or proof that God is calling them into the ministry as Joyce Meyers had done even though tongues are not to serve as a sign or proof to the believers for anything.

This is a case of believers wanting to believe that extra phenomenon is of God but instead of testing the spirits, because the tongue it brings, comes without interpretation, they assume it is for private use when in actuality it is not the real God's gift of tongues but of the devil, Isaiah 8:19 and why that phenomenon is also. 1 Timothy 4:1

How do you arrive at the conclusion that tongues is the great delusion sent because they loved not the truth? Could it not be another doctrinal error?

Maybe i'm reading you wrong but 2 Thess you quoted is speaking to the returning of the Lord, nothing to do with tongues.

The Mystery of Iniquity has nothing whatsoever to do with tongues. It has everything to do with why iniquity still exists and is used to mature the saints(elect), even though
Jesus has defeated satan and has assumed His position at the right hand of the Father.

I can appreciate your zeal but it is misguided for the majority of us on this site.

Those who preach another baptism with the Holy Ghost with evidence of tongues or by that sign of tongues is the lie that God will permit that strong delusion to occur as that tradition taught of us is how Paul was exposing and reproving that lie by that tradition taught of us as the only time we will receive the sanctification of the Spirit and the belief of the truth is at the calling of the gospel.

2 Thessalonians 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth: 14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. 15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

Paul goes on to address those that have fallen away from the faith in 2 Thessalonians 3:1-7 for why we are commanded by the Lord to withdraw from them for being "disorderly" and no longer walking after the traditions taught of us BUT Paul testified that in withdrawing, we are not to treat them as the enemy, but admonish them as brothers still ( 2 Thessalonians 3:14-15 ) because they are still saved but at risk of being left behind as Revelation 2:18-25 warns whereas in verse 25 as addressing those that are not involved in that iniquity, that have not known the depths of Satan for which they speak hence tongues for private use, to hold fast till He comes.

Notwithstanding, those involved in that iniquity are still called to repent before the Bridegroom comes or else be left behind as cast into the bed of the coming great tribulation.