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Speaking in Tongues: Required for Regeneration?.

Did not Paul say that this gift would end as it's not needed as we have a complete full bonlr
Sorta the KJ quote
1Co 13:8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
1Co 13:9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
1Co 13:10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

Have we, you them, decided what is 'that which is perfect' ?
 
Greetings,



can you please tell me where you get this from, for a lot of it is not in Scripture?
Read Ezekiel 28. Ezekiel’s prophesy regarding the King of Tyre is obviously a revelation of the fall of Lucifer. The King of Tyre could not have been in Eden. Of whom else would Ezekiel be prophesying here?

“You were the seal of perfection, full of wisdom and perfect in beauty.
You were in Eden, the garden of God;
every precious stone was your covering, sardius, topaz, and diamond, beryl, onyx, and jasper,
sapphire, emerald, and carbuncle;
and crafted in gold were your settings
and your engravings. On the day that you were created they were prepared….
You were the anointed cherub who covers, And I placed you there.You were on the holy mountain of God; You walked in the midst of the stones of fire…..
By the abundance of your trade you were internally filled with violence, And you sinned; Therefore I have cast you as profane From the mountain of God
.” -Ezekiel 28:12-17

Do you know how the word 'lucifer' came to be used in the English translations?
Yes, I’m quite familiar with its origin actually. I know, for example, that it’s found nowhere else in the King James translation except Isaiah’s prophesy. I know that it is a translation of the Hebrew word “Helel” which literally means “Day Star” or is also used in verb form meaning “to howl.” When translated from Hebrew to Latin, the translators interpreted it as the verb form “to shine”. Some scholars have even suggested it was used as a name for the King of Babylon.
Regardless….back to the Latin translation….it became “luciferno” which means “to shine.” That turned into the proper name “Lucifer.” By the time the KJV was translated, the Latin Vulgate had been in existence for over a thousand years and the translators would’ve understood that this was an aceepted “proper name” that was used for the Devil. There is also a tie-in with Venus, the Roman goddess of beauty and love, but I don’t see the need to go down that road in this explanation.
But, seeing as how you asked the question, I’m certain you were already knowledgeable of its origins.

Regarding Solomon, do we know that he is going to perish? If so, can we see where, in Scripture,
No, we don’t know that he is going to perish. My personal belief is that God’s mercy and grace was extended to Solomon before he passed. But we can’t know that for certain. And in all fairness, that was not my claim. I only pointed out, from scripture, that he (who was inarguably in God’s favor) fell, and by all we know from scripture, lived his last days in sin and idolatry.

and can you please show me where i can read that? I am serious.
I hear what you are trying to convey and i have personally known quite a few who have turned away from believing and now deny the faith. What their final condition will be, i do not know.
1 Kings 11 “Now the LORD was angry with Solomon because his heart was turned away from the LORD….
So the LORD said to Solomon, Because you have done this, and you have not kept My covenant and My statutes, which I have commanded you, I will surely tear the kingdom from you…”

Reading further, we also know that Solomon disobeyed God up until the very end….seeking to kill Jeroboam, the man God had raised up to replace him. However, God’s Word does not state definitively what happens to Solomon’s soul after his death and burial. So there we are. We can only hold out hope that Solomon returned to the Lord before he departed this life.
For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
John 3:16


Bless you ....><>
Bless you as well my friend!
 
Sorta the KJ quote
1Co 13:8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
1Co 13:9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
1Co 13:10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

Have we, you them, decided what is 'that which is perfect' ?


Indeed so tongues are no more
 
can you please show me where i can read that? I am serious.
Sorry, I forgot to address the Adam and Eve question.
In 1 Timothy 2:14, Paul says something very interesting.
“And it was not Adam who was deceived…..”
At first glance, he seems to be shifting blame to the woman for mankind’s fall from God’s grace and into sin….but look closely. Because he wasn’t the one deceived by the serpent, Adam deliberately chose by an act of his own will to disobey God, thereby bringing about the fall of the entire race of man into sin.
what happened as a result? God cast them from the Garden…from His presence….from His glory. He even cursed the ground because of Adam’s fall.
Because of Adam’s fall, God had to make a way for mankind to be reconciled unto Him. Adam’s fall led to man being placed under the “curse” of the law. How do we know this? Paul confirms for us in his letter to the Galatians:
“Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:” -Galatians 3:13
Jesus became the ultimate reconciliation (propitiation) for mankind….the WAY to redeem us from that fallen state. But I’m probably “preaching to the choir” here. I’m sure you already knew all this. I hope I’ve explained my previous post adequately. Please forgive me if I did not!
Be blessed my friend!
 
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Indeed so tongues are no more
Sorta the KJ quote
1Co 13:8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
1Co 13:9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
1Co 13:10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

Have we, you them, decided what is 'that which is perfect' ?

Indeed so tongues are no more

What are you calling ' that which is perfect'?
 
The more perfect testermony of the full complete revelation of God the bible, there is no longer anything new to expand

OT tells of coming Messiah
NT tell of messiah arrival death for sin and rising again

The tesermony is complete salvation is being secured
 
The more perfect testermony of the full complete revelation of God the bible, there is no longer anything new to expand

OT tells of coming Messiah
NT tell of messiah arrival death for sin and rising again

The tesermony is complete salvation is being secured
Not trying to be dispespectful or anything, but just throwing a couple questions out for discussion. I'm always interested to hear someone else's take.
So what about when we read a bit further?

"For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face; now I know in part, but then I will know fully just as I also have been fully known." 1 Corinthians 13:12
Isn't Paul explaining what is meant by "the perfect" here? If so, what is he saying? What does he mean by "face to face"?

Earlier, in the same letter, Paul says this:
"so that you are not lacking in ANY gift, awaiting eagerly the revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ," -1 Corinthians 1:7
Is he also talking about completion of the biblical canon here? Or is he talking about the return of Jesus and the fulfillment of all prophesy?
 
With out getting deeper it is plain to read the low value the post places on the Cross of Christ.
Okay. You seem determined to argue with me for some strange reason. I've tried to be very nice and polite. I can't fathom how you would ever come to that conclusion from my post. If this is what you choose to "plainly" see or read in it, I don't know what else to say other than you'd be wrong. The Cross of Calvary is THE ONLY HOPE for mankind. My post makes the Cross even MORE valuable. Why? Because these things show us that we must keep going back there again and again....not because Jesus wasn't enough, but because WE aren't enough. He is always enough!

Do you think Jesus was just making a cute analogy when he told his disciples that they had to "take up THEIR cross daily"? No! He was being very literal! And these were his disciples He was talking to....not a bunch of lost men. We MUST sacrifice our flesh daily to be right with Him.

Last question: Do you believe that Paul the Apostle was saved?
 
Paul is indeed talking ofor Christ return and then complete cannon ofor the Bible which is better more perfect than what he had in his age.

They had old testament, so the full revelation is revealed in a completed bible as we can see the whole of teaching and follow it though

Which is better than guessing what was going on.

Christ is coming again and thatsee the next key point,

Church taken away earth judged
 
As for face to face Mose is said to have spoken to God face to face in old testerment

Jesus says if you have seen me then you have seen the Father, so all who saw Jesus saw God face to face
 
Okay. You seem determined to argue with me for some strange reason. I've tried to be very nice and polite. I can't fathom how you would ever come to that conclusion from my post. If this is what you choose to "plainly" see or read in it, I don't know what else to say other than you'd be wrong. The Cross of Calvary is THE ONLY HOPE for mankind. My post makes the Cross even MORE valuable. Why? Because these things show us that we must keep going back there again and again....not because Jesus wasn't enough, but because WE aren't enough. He is always enough!

Do you think Jesus was just making a cute analogy when he told his disciples that they had to "take up THEIR cross daily"? No! He was being very literal! And these were his disciples He was talking to....not a bunch of lost men. We MUST sacrifice our flesh daily to be right with Him.

Last question: Do you believe that Paul the Apostle was saved?
Just an observation .
 
As for face to face Mose is said to have spoken to God face to face in old testerment

Jesus says if you have seen me then you have seen the Father, so all who saw Jesus saw God face to face
Then why is Paul speaking in a future sense if the scripture is talking about those who SAW(past tense) Jesus when he walked in flesh?
As in “NOW we see dimly….but THEN face-to-face”….NOW I know in part but THEN I WILL KNOW in full…”
Unless I’m missing something, It just doesn’t seem to line up.
 
Okay sir. I thank you for your response. I feel that I have provided ample scripture (from at least 28 different places in God’s Word) that all seem to point to the same conclusion…that born again believers can turn away from God and can and do fall from His grace. I mean, do we really have to look any further than the stories of Lucifer’s, Adam’s, and Solomon’s fall to understand this?


I would think two or three witnesses would be plenty .


28 different places yet not one even hinted toward making the fullness of Grace, the full price of salvation the filling of the Holy Spirt which all believers receive as the end of salvation from the very beginning. Why do despite to the grace of Christ the price we are purchased with ? Not enough grace??


Are you a partaker that tasted and refused to believe what God says

Why do you do despite to the grace we are purchased by ?

Again those partakers who went out from the exclusive us defined by the Bible as born again believers cannot fall from the fullness of grace. Grace as to the fullness is the result of Christ labor of love. The idea as a oral tradition of corrupted mankind that I need to go somewhere make sounds without understanding and fall backward slain in the spirit of Christ in order to be filled by the Holy Spirit of grace is not biblical teaching.

Jesus according to the loving law (Philippians 2:12-13 performed the will of the father that worked in his prophet apostle Jesus with delight why murmur . . like Jonah who knew God would have everlasting mercy on the Nineties?

“Do you think it is right for you to be angry about God having mercy and not just a kick start ?”

4 Jonah was not happy that God saved the city. Jonah became angry. 2 He complained to the Lord and said, “Lord, I knew this would happen! I was in my own country, and you told me to come here. At that time I knew that you would forgive the people of this evil city, so I decided to run away to Tarshish. I knew that you are a kind God. I knew that you show mercy and don’t want to punish people. I knew that you are kind, and if these people stopped sinning, you would change your plans to destroy them. 3 So now, Lord, just kill me. It is better for me to die than to live.” Then the Lord said, “Do you think it is right for you to be angry?”
 
Two points. First: There is a difference between falling/turning away (apostasy) and being backslidden (lukewarm, straying from the path of righteousness, falling prey to sin and temptation, etc.)
Second: No, this scripture is not saying that a backslidden person will always be backslidden. It IS saying that once a person has known the saving grace of God and then has willfully turned away from Him....rejected Him (becomes apostate)....their original act of repentance (which originally brought them to that saving grace) no longer applies. They have cast away that free gift..... Christ's sacrifice.

The Bible clearly does not teach the fullness of Christ grace as a labor of his love falls short of the glory of God Why glory in your own flesh .What's the hope in that?

Repentance is a work of God .

Saying that once a person has known the saving grace of God and then has willfully turned away from Him....rejected Him has no support from the word of God . .not even one verse supports losing that which a person did not earn in the first place .Flooding your opinion with many verses only confuses the law of salvation.

The same work of God working in new creatures that brings repentance is the grace by which a person returns to him and do the first works of the Spirit that does work in us . . . . ..called believing God taking him at his word as it is written.

Two tunings as the one work of repentance .First he our first love turns us so that we can hear him No man of his own volition can seek Him (Romans 3) and then empowered by him we can return by the same hearing of his wonderful powerful faith not of us..


Philipians 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. Do all things without murmurings and disputings:

Who is it that works in you? Will you ever stop your murmuring like that of Jonah . The burden is lighter when yoked with God and work with him . Why work against Him .It was hard to kick against the prick of thorns for Paul before he was born again from above.


Hebrews 6: 7 For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God: But that which beareth "thorns and briers" is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; "whose end" is to be burned.
 
colossians-3-12-3.jpg
 
Then why is Paul speaking in a future sense if the scripture is talking about those who SAW(past tense) Jesus when he walked in flesh?
As in “NOW we see dimly….but THEN face-to-face”….NOW I know in part but THEN I WILL KNOW in full…”
Unless I’m missing something, It just doesn’t seem to line up.

God is not a man he has no face . he is the eternal Spirit of all truth without beginning of Spirt life or end thereof of. the father of all sprit life .

Face to face is the same as faith (the unseen power of the will of God ) to the same faith as a labor of His love that works in us. it is always in respect to the revealed knowledge .Never after what they see the temporal corrupted . Ee continue to walk by faith the unseen eternal

1 Corinthians 13:12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know (not seen) in part; but then shall I know (not seen) even as also I am known.(not seen)

2 Corinthians 4:6 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ

Jesus as the Son of man as prophet and chief apostle was to reflect the glory of God like the Moon reflects the power of the Sun .

We would never glory in the representation used as a one time demonstration of the power of our Father.

Before Jesus disappeared out of sight our Father gave him words to make sure mankind did not confuse the creation with the Faithful Creator, the Spirt of Truth having no form . . . we must walk by faith or we will not hear the gospel .

Not one more demonstration was propmised .God is not a man as us .He works in us as representation of his unseen glory .Just as he worked in Jesus the Son of man

2 Corinthains 5: 16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.
 
vhusley said:

Lucifer, like all angels, was created by God to worship and serve Him. The prophet Ezekiel described Lucifer as “the seal of perfection.” Lucifer lived in the the very presence of God and in the full glory of God…..and yet he fell along with many other angels.


Its all about the unseen glory of God we cannot create things that are not there.

There is only one spirit of rebellion (legion) who is not a creation . But as a spirit assigned as Lucifer to protect the glory of God or “the seal of perfection.”

Satan is not the seal of perfection but is the seal of death. . . false pride. In a perfect world (the first three days) every thing was glory glory glory as the presence of Light (God) . Legion many false gods was to protect the glory of Creation but took it upon himself usurping the glory of God. And is why in Mathew 4 he tried to deceive Jesus with the idea that he could give him all the kingdom of the world and the glory of it as the god of this world.

In that way he was not created like us from the dust or field of clay as a usurping spirit.

Satan or legion( many) has no DNA he needs the actual creation to deceive mankind his wile . . . . .If you will bow down and worship the spirit of error you to can usurp the power of God . Strike three struck him out


The father gave Jesus the chief apostle the words as it is written three times and the spirt of error departed
 
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