Speaking in Tongues: Required for Regeneration?.

[Shaolin]

The perfect already came. That is about Jesus. The New Testament times are when we were given the Jesus, his words, his teachings, his sacrifice, his testimony.

Negative, the perfect that the passage speaks about, when utilizing common sense, logic, context and Biblical principles of interpretation, is talking about the new perfect world that is yet to come. Jesus was perfect, but he is NOT who Paul refers to in the text. You are reading into the verse what it does not say and what it does not mean - that is the beginning of how false doctrines start.

Again, you don't know what you are talking about.

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[Shaolin]

Paul speaks to people and explains things from the Old Testament times to the New Testament times. Just like people teach wrong about Paul and say in Romans 7 he is speaking of himself after being saved still sinning as always.

The fact that you apparently cannot discern what Paul is saying in Romans 7 is truly telling on how you come to all of these other false ideologies. There is a difference between sinning and practicing sin. Paul did not practice sin, but he did still sin, and you trying to make him out to be something different from human flesh shows that you, again, don't have the mindset to be able to accurately interpret Scripture. You probably think God has feathers and wings because of what certain psalms say about Him.

The same Spirit that wrote through Paul, also wrote through John, and said that if you claim to have no sin, then you are a liar and do not walk in the truth. Paul sinned from time to time, just like Peter, James, and John and every other human being in the world.

I suppose that you think you don't sin....

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[Shaolin]

No unbelievers of foreign languages are hearing nowadays tongue speakers and coming to believe in Jesus because they hear the truth spoken in their earthly language by those who never learned their language.

This is a statement out of sheer ignorance and not according to real world happenings. I have witnessed this very thing while in the military in Japan with people visiting our church from Korea. Again, you don't know what you are talking about and appear to be drowning within your own biased false doctrines.

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[Garee]

Come on man. Really? So Jesus is not returning to rapture the church away? And then to reign over the New Kingdom? Let’s not waste time and bandwidth arguing over things that are so obviously scriptural.

Yes the one time demonstration of the lamb of God who was slain within the first 6 days when God was working. God who is not a man using flesh of the Son of man again the one time demonstration is over .


2 Corinthians 5:16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.


Christ is reigning in the heart of believers. The church will receive its new propmised incorruptible body on the last day . Like a thief in the might come and go . We can watch for it but like with Noah it can come at any moment in the twinkling of the eye


No sign are given to wonder or marvel after. Wondering is not believing. Belief is the end of faith. Not limbo

We have the word of God it does not number literal days with reference to the last day nether literally number of saints.


2 Corinthians 10:12 For we dare not make ourselves of the number, or compare ourselves with some that commend themselves: but they measuring themselves by themselves, and comparing themselves among themselves, are not wise.

God apposes a government. a hierarchy of men who lord it over the understanding of the non venerable .or compare themselves with some that commend themselves in false pride

A government that comes by observing the temporal seen , not mixing faith the eternal power of God the gospel understanding

The 20/20 prescription needed to mix faith . (Hebrew 4:1-3 our rest yoked with him )

2 Corinthians 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: (the invisible things of God) for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.

 

[Garee]

Did Paul see Him “face-to-face”? Did the church at Corinth to whom he was writing? Have we seen Jesus face-to-face?
Come on guy, you’re grasping for straws here. Your argument is falling apart…….Biblically.

God is not a man as us .

The bible defines face to face as synonym to faith to faith it is used in the same way.

Face to face in the revealed knowledge the Bible

1 Corinthians below never changes the subject from understanding prophecy . face to face or compare one to another . what was missing was in part ...prophecy . today we have the whole .

1 Corinthians 13:12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.


2 Corinthians 4:6 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.

Romans reveals how the faith of Christ worked in those he sent from faith (believing God ) to the same faith (believing God) Face to face.


The work of the Spirit that worked in two both him sent and the other who was given ears to hear what the faith of Christ was saying .faith doing its good work of God .

Note. . .(PURPLE) My added comment or opinion .

Romans 1:10-17 Making request, if by any means now at length I might have a prosperous journey by the will of God to come unto you. For I long to see you, that I may impart unto you some spiritual gift, to the end ye may be established; That is, that I may be comforted together with you by the mutual faith (Christ's) both of you and me. Now I would not have you ignorant, brethren, that oftentimes I purposed to come unto you, (but was let hitherto,) that I might have some fruit among you also, even as among other Gentiles. I am debtor both to the Greeks, and to the Barbarians; both to the wise, and to the unwise. So, as much as in me is, I am ready to preach the gospel to you that are at Rome also. For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: (face to face) as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

 

[Waggles]

@God's Truth - here is Torben Søndegaard explaining speaking in tongues for a disciple and in the Spirit-filled church

 

[God's Truth]

To put it bluntly, you don't know what you are talking about...

1 Corinthians 12:28
And God has appointed in the church first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healing, helping, administrating, and various kinds of tongues.

The Spirit through Paul is explicit...God "has appointed in the church." That means, as long as the church is on the earth, there will be those things that He has appointed to be in the church. Secessionism came from calvin, and along with all the rest of his false doctrines, this is one of the most heinous.

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During the time of the Apostles and the laying of the foundation of the teachings of salvation through Jesus Christ...there were homes that people met at and were called churches. The people met together to be taught by the Apostles in person, or by sharing books and letters, which are our scriptures. It was also a time that the prophets prophesied and tongue speakers and interpreters of tongues spoke of the gospel revealing the mysterious of Jesus Christ.

It is all finished a long time ago. There are no more Apostles, and there can't be, because Apostles are the firsts who had the gospel from Jesus Christ and taught us what they learned from Jesus and not by any man. The foundation has been laid, the mystery has been given, and there are no more tongues and prophecies and new knowledge, for the scriptures are finished and we have all the scriptures we need to guide us to eternal life.

What we have is the Bible and to find God's Truth and get saved and have Jesus as our Teacher, all we have to do is get Jesus' teachings in the New Testament and if and when he accepts you, you will be given the Holy Spirit and you will be given understanding.

 

[God's Truth]

This sounds like nothing more than your biased carnal mind that has been brainwashed by people who didn't know what they were talking about.

I learned this from Jesus my Teacher.
I have received knowledge that I don't find anywhere else.

Most people who hold this view, hold it because they have never operated in any gift of the Spirit and don't like the idea, in their pride, that they don't have one. Usually, this is because such a person was never really saved.

Your insults and false judgments are no defense for the truth.

They believed lies about how to get saved (usually out of calvinism or some church where the pastor taught calvinist nonsense without realizing what he was really doing) and so never got saved.

I go against the Calvinists teachings. I don't belong to any denomination.

Scripture is clear, anyone who has been saved and is presently walking with God according to "the way of God" (Acts 18:24-26) has the indwelling Spirit within them, which means - according to I Corinthians 12 - that they have at least one of the spiritual gifts.

Some gifts have ceased, just as the Bible says they would.

The only people who grace a church landscape that do not have a spiritual gift, are those who think they are saved and walking with God but are not...so they come up with this nonsense belief above.

You are condemning people like you are and think that is right?

 

[God's Truth]

Ah...one of the hallmarks of a false deceived teacher..."I don't attend a church because..."

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I can prove all my beliefs with scripture and am just showing you how to find the truth too and not just have some teaching from some man or woman.

 

[God's Truth]

Negative, the perfect that the passage speaks about, when utilizing common sense, logic, context and Biblical principles of interpretation, is talking about the new perfect world that is yet to come. Jesus was perfect, but he is NOT who Paul refers to in the text. You are reading into the verse what it does not say and what it does not mean - that is the beginning of how false doctrines start.

Again, you don't know what you are talking about.

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In the Old Testament, old law times, people saw darkly, dimly, they only had prophecy in part, and they were as children, until Jesus came the first time.

Now read this next scripture, it says when perfect is comes which is in part shall be done away.
We have all the prophecies we needed, the mysteries have been revealed, they aren't in part as they once were during the Old Testament times.

10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

Now read about when I was a child and what that means.
It is about being under the Old Testament times. Paul refers to that time as the people being as a child, because they didn't have Jesus yet.

Galatians 4 Now I say, That the heir, as long as he is a child, differeth nothing from a servant, though he be lord of all;

2 But is under tutors and governors until the time appointed of the father.

3 Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world:

Did you read that? When we were children is about being under the old law.
Galatians 3:24 So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith.
So now that Jesus has come, we are no longer as a child. The perfect has come.

1 Corinthians 13:11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.

We no longer see through a glass darkly, for they have seen him face to face.

12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

See here how Peter explains it:

2 Peter 1:19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:

The Old Testament believers waited a long time for God to reveal Jesus to us, and in the New Testament time people prophesied about what God finally revealed to us what He wanted us to know. We have the mysteries revealed, and we have all the teachings we need to lead us to eternal life, we cannot add or subtract from the finished work, we cannot add new prophecies and knowledge to the Bible. The perfect has come.

When you only have prophesy in part (as in the Old Testament times), the prophecy has not yet been fulfilled, and more prophecy is needed, it is imperfect. However, when there is fulfillment of prophecy (as in the New Testament times), then we have full understanding; so then, it is perfect and, that which is perfect is come.

The perfect Jesus Christ came, he gave his perfect teachings about the perfect New Covenant, he gave the perfect sacrifice, and we are made perfect by his blood and obeying his perfect words.

Hebrews 10:14 For by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy.

The Bible has everything we need to know for salvation, for our being perfect.
When we have faith in Jesus’ blood and obey Jesus’ teachings, it is when and how we are made perfect.

Hebrews 5:9 and, once made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him

Hebrews 10:14 because by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy

Ephesians 5:26 to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word,

James 1:25 But whoever looks intently into the perfect law that gives freedom, and continues in it—not forgetting what they have heard, but doing it—they will be blessed in what they do.

The nowadays tongue speakers claim that tongue speaking will not cease until Jesus comes again. However, we have the perfect now because Jesus came the first time, and the apostles, who were sent to lay the foundation and build upon it.

Again, Jesus the perfect came the first time, and gave the perfect law, and he is the perfect sacrifice who makes us perfect. The Bible is finished and we have Christ revealed, the mystery has been given we are no longer as children speaking as children under the old law.

 

[God's Truth]

The fact that you apparently cannot discern what Paul is saying in Romans 7 is truly telling on how you come to all of these other false ideologies. There is a difference between sinning and practicing sin. Paul did not practice sin, but he did still sin, and you trying to make him out to be something different from human flesh shows that you, again, don't have the mindset to be able to accurately interpret Scripture. You probably think God has feathers and wings because of what certain psalms say about Him.

There are people who say Paul was speaking of himself still doing the sins that gave him the self given title the Chief of Sinners.
No way was Paul speaking of himself as still doing the sins he did before being saved.

The same Spirit that wrote through Paul, also wrote through John, and said that if you claim to have no sin, then you are a liar and do not walk in the truth. Paul sinned from time to time, just like Peter, James, and John and every other human being in the world.

I suppose that you think you don't sin....
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You were taught wrong about that scripture, and I want to help show you the truth. That scripture is about if you claim to not have sin, then you never admitted to being a sinner and then you never repented of your sins---then the truth is not in you and you were never saved.

 

[God's Truth]

This is a statement out of sheer ignorance and not according to real world happenings. I have witnessed this very thing while in the military in Japan with people visiting our church from Korea. Again, you don't know what you are talking about and appear to be drowning within your own biased false doctrines.

I don't believe you, and no wonder, look how you speak in English.
Tongues were a sign to the Jews, the sign to the Jews was given a long time ago.

 

[God's Truth]

@God's Truth - here is Torben Søndegaard explaining speaking in tongues for a disciple and in the Spirit-filled church

Tell me what you think of this video:

 

[God's Truth]

Here is part 2

 

[Garee]

I don't believe you, and no wonder, look how you speak in English.
Tongues were a sign to the Jews, the sign to the Jews was given a long time ago.

A sign against the unbelieving Jew or gentile. God is no respecter of person as if he was served by corrupted human hands as a will .

Prophecy is for ones that have been born again. The interpretation was hid from the faithless Jews and gentiles.

God mocking those who mock him giving to them the same kind of mumble jumbo they used to describe Him . The kind that when it goes around it can come around face to face and make a person falls back slain in the spirit of prophecy as judgment, falling back by the tongue of God the power of life and death . You could say the drunks calling Christians drunks Acts 2.

God calling them drunks according the foundation of tongue (Isaiah 28 )

 

[Garee]

It is not a matter of how I feel.
You have failed to prove your arguments against Pentecostal doctrine and faith - you interpret scriptures to fit your unbelief that Pentecost is alive and well.
In the end God proves you wrong.

If we cannot understand his interpretation how could we prove anything ? A person would be left wondering, wondering, marveling not coming to the end of their new born again faith. . the salvation of our soul .Its how the the limbo and purgatory got its idea . No salvation in sight no faith or understanding that could please God .Just baby talk

We receive the end of our salvation from the beginning just as the old testament saints they looked ahead of the sufferings of Christ we by the same spirt of faith Christ's in us look back to the same glory . No needs for refills

1 Peter 1:8-11 Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory: Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls. Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.

 

[Waggles]

Tell me what you think of this video:

I have respect for Andrew Strom - he is a Pentecostal pastor originally from New Zealand and preaches sound doctrine.
Fortunately I am Pentecostal and not charismatic.
Worth pointing out that most, if not all, the weird and wonderful mutations of Christianity begin in the U.S.A.
As an outsider I have observed that religion is somewhat strange in America.

 

[God's Truth]

A sign against the unbelieving Jew or gentile.

A sign against unbelieving Jews and Gentiles? No.
It was a sign for the Jews.

God is no respecter of person as if he was served by corrupted human hands as a will .

What?
Of course we are to serve God.

God mocking those who mock him giving to them the same kind of mumble jumbo they used to describe Him . The kind that when it goes around it can come around face to face and make a person falls back slain in the spirit of prophecy as judgment, falling back by the tongue of God the power of life and death . You could say the drunks calling Christians drunks Acts 2.

No such thing as slain in the spirit and drunk in the spirit.

We are told to be sober.

1 Peter 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:

God calling them drunks according the foundation of tongue (Isaiah 28 )

Those scriptures speak against being drunk.

 

[God's Truth]

I have respect for Andrew Strom - he is a Pentecostal pastor originally from New Zealand and preaches sound doctrine.
Fortunately I am Pentecostal and not charismatic.
Worth pointing out that most, if not all, the weird and wonderful mutations of Christianity begin in the U.S.A.
As an outsider I have observed that religion is somewhat strange in America.

Andrew Strom is wrong about speaking in tongues, for tongues have ceased a long time ago, but he does also show some more false teachings that are going on in churches.

 

[Garee]

A sign against unbelieving Jews and Gentiles? No.
It was a sign for the Jews.

It is a sign against whosever mocks the word of God . God is no respecter of nations

What?
Of course we are to serve God.

God is not served by human hands as a will . He is of one mind and always does whatsoever his soul desires. No man can turn him . Don't forget he makes our hearts soft by a work of his Spirit . God is self serving

No such thing as slain in the spirit and drunk in the spirit.

We are told to be sober.

I am not promoting getting drunk .


I said he called them drunks . They called the apostle Peter a drunk because God took away the understanding of his tongue or prophecy

A person must look to the whole foundation of the doctrine it is found in Isaiah 28 it is the same law spoken of revisited in 1 Corhtitains 14:21 (yet for all that they still refuse to beleive sola scriptura.. God's interpretation )

Isaiah 28 :1-2 Look at Samaria! The drunks of Ephraim are proud of that city. It sits on a hill with a rich valley around it. The Samarians think their city is a beautiful crown of flowers. But they are drunk with wine, and this “beautiful crown” is just a dying plant.

Slain in the spirit is how they mock God who in return mocks them . They proclaim the word of God is nothing but a series of baby noises , in the same way he answers them (not giving them the understanding of faith ).


Isaiah 28 :9-13 The people say, “Who does he think he is trying to teach and explain his message to? Does he think we are babies who were at their mother’s breast only a very short time ago? He speaks to us as though we were babies:

“Saw lasaw saw lasaw
Qaw laqaw qaw laqaw
Ze’er sham ze’er sham.”

So God will use this strange way of talking, and he will use other languages to speak to these people. In the past he spoke to them and said, “Here is a resting place. Let those who are tired come and rest. This is the place of peace.”But they would not listen to him. So the Lord’s words will be senseless sounds to them:

“Saw lasaw saw lasaw.
Qaw laqaw qaw laqaw.
Ze’er sham ze’er sham.”

When the people try to walk, they will fall backwards. They will be defeated, trapped, and captured.

That defines the Spirit of judgment using the tribe of Dan to help us hear his understanding rather than mock it. He mocks them shown by them falling backward off their high horse of false pride bitten by the poison of false doctrines of men.

Geneisis 49:16 Dan shall judge his people, as one of the tribes of Israel. Dan shall be a serpent by the way, an adder in the path, that biteth the horse heels, so that his rider shall fall backward.

People who mock God will fall of their high horse breaking their necks . Jew or Gentile