HOW could Adam and Eve have known what death was -- they'd just been created. There had been No Death.
The Garden and the Fall
- Thread starter Kirby D. P.
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HOW could Adam and Eve have known what death was -- they'd just been created. There had been No Death.
Curtis
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How do you know it is "evil" to kill someone? Have you ever killed, someone to learn that?
Yes, and the result of that was their death -- not immediately -- but after 900 years or so. They Could have lived Forever and so could We.
Romans 3:23 and 6:23 -- for all have sinned and come short of the glory of God /// the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ the Lord."
WE have the Ten Commandments to tell us that 'thou shalt not kill" -- they had no such knowledge.
You're adjusting the subject. We're talking about Adam and Eve and death. They were the 1st two people in this world. They had no prior death to observe in people. The serpent deceived them into believing that knowledge was more important than pending death.
We tend to do the same thing, That knowledge in the 'here and now' is more important than death 'someday'.
We are warned but don't take it seriously.
I found a book just yesterday -- several family members were traveling -- obeying all the laws -- slowed down to help a car along the side of the road -- a drunk driver was coming up behind them at hit full speed from behind didn't even notice they'd slowed down. The grandmother and grandaughter were killed instantly. Never knew what hit them. In eternity in an instant. Are We ready for death in an instant.
You're adjusting the subject. We're talking about Adam and Eve and death. They were the 1st two people in this world. They had no prior death to observe in people. The serpent deceived them into believing that knowledge was more important than pending death.
We tend to do the same thing, That knowledge in the 'here and now' is more important than death 'someday'.
We are warned but don't take it seriously.
I found a book just yesterday -- several family members were traveling -- obeying all the laws -- slowed down to help a car along the side of the road -- a drunk driver was coming up behind them at hit full speed from behind didn't even notice they'd slowed down. The grandmother and grandaughter were killed instantly. Never knew what hit them. In eternity in an instant. Are We ready for death in an instant.
Curtis
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When the Lord God tells you to do something, that is a commandment. When the Lord God tells you NOT to do something that is a commandment.
Adam had a command from God to protect the garden, which he did not do. Adam was told to not eat from a certain tree, which he did do which was a command from God.
Anytime you do not do what God tells you is "disobedience". Anytime you do what you are supposed to NOT do is disobedience which is sin.
You're use of the term "commandment' in This case sounds a bit like "you do That or Else" -- chapter 2 : 15 " Then the Lord took the man and put him in the garden of Eden to tend and keep it."
back up to verse 8 -- The Lord God planted a garden eastward in Eden..... And out of the ground the Lord God made every tree grow that is pleasant to the sight and good for food. The tree of life was also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
The command God made was to the man first -- "Of every tree of the garden you may freely eat; but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die"
The 'command' was made about the tree to Not eat of. Not in regards to taking care of the garden.
The thread is about The Garden and the Fall -- the fall was due to their disobeying God / not listening to God but listening to satan, the serpent instead.
back up to verse 8 -- The Lord God planted a garden eastward in Eden..... And out of the ground the Lord God made every tree grow that is pleasant to the sight and good for food. The tree of life was also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
The command God made was to the man first -- "Of every tree of the garden you may freely eat; but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die"
The 'command' was made about the tree to Not eat of. Not in regards to taking care of the garden.
The thread is about The Garden and the Fall -- the fall was due to their disobeying God / not listening to God but listening to satan, the serpent instead.
Samson2020
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As we all know God knows his plan from the beginning to the end before he begins. Therefore everything that happened in the Garden of Eden was planned.
Let us consider that it was always Gods intention to have "All fullness dwell in Jesus" Col 1:19 tells us this is true.
In order for that to happen the fall of Adam and Eve was necessary and therefore happened. Otherwise what need of Jesus was there?
Given that, when you look at sin against you, Jesus would say you must forgive TO BE MORE LIKE YOUR FATHER, so we see that sin against us has a purpose whose outcome is in our best interest. I did not say that our sin is in our best interest I said sin against us so that we may forgive is in our best interest. So without the fall there would be no sin and nothing to forgive so you becoming more like your Father isn't going to happen. This will be the state of humans during the 1000 year reign, no maturing occurring.
Lets back up a bit. Most believe themselves to be their own God (free will), (carnal mind) this KNOWLEDGE OF GOOD AND EVIL makes them the controller of both good and evil and as such they will point out everyone elses good and evil (extroverts), carnal mind loves this one. But they will never look inside themselves as they believe they are fine, all the while slowly dying due to the reward of sin within them.
Isaiah 45:7 "I form the light, and create darkness; I make peace, and CREATE EVIL: I THE LORD do all these things."
The question we should be asking ourselves is why did the Lord create evil? So all would have this experience in a world of good and evil? YES!!!
Romans 5:18 Therefore as by the offense of one (Adam) JUDGEMENT came upon ALL men to condemnation (GODS DECREE); even so by the righteousness of one (Jesus) the FREE GIFT came upon ALL MEN unto justification of life (GODS DECREE AGAIN). These event were PLANNED, both of them.
This verse answers the question how would ALL FULLNESS dwell in JESUS.
Since all have sinned and come short of the glory of GOD with one exception (Jesus), God decrees that all are justified by what HIS SON did as a payment for the sin of the world. And after he made peace between Man and God the reconciliation has begun. We see this in the giving of the Holy Spirit to the ELECT of the Father whom will be the first to enter into the KINGDOM and will at that time have become just like their Father through this earthly experience.
After one is born of the spirit it begins to consume the written word of God and begins to look inwardly (introvert) and begins to notice that there is a war
taking place within themselves. A war between the new spirit man within and the carnal mind that has governed since birth. This internal war is an individual conquering of ones own carnal mind and putting to death sin within the members of its body. As this occurs the spirit man is matured and becomes more like its Father day by day until he is exactly like his Father. Knowing good and evil but yet not controlled by it, but rather recognizing it as a tool used to mature others. (They will stay out of that process in anothers life other than to observe for now).
The question you ask is not hard to answer but takes time in setting up that answer so that it is obvious. God hides his wisdom and it is only uncovered 1 layer at a time and requires concept upon concept and layer upon layer. We don't become born again and suddenly become experts. Just like a 5 year olds first day of school does not make him a physics genius. Its a gradual process.
I hope this helps, but I know it will get blasted by those who still do not see God as the controller of their lives and every event that happens to them.
Let us consider that it was always Gods intention to have "All fullness dwell in Jesus" Col 1:19 tells us this is true.
In order for that to happen the fall of Adam and Eve was necessary and therefore happened. Otherwise what need of Jesus was there?
Given that, when you look at sin against you, Jesus would say you must forgive TO BE MORE LIKE YOUR FATHER, so we see that sin against us has a purpose whose outcome is in our best interest. I did not say that our sin is in our best interest I said sin against us so that we may forgive is in our best interest. So without the fall there would be no sin and nothing to forgive so you becoming more like your Father isn't going to happen. This will be the state of humans during the 1000 year reign, no maturing occurring.
Lets back up a bit. Most believe themselves to be their own God (free will), (carnal mind) this KNOWLEDGE OF GOOD AND EVIL makes them the controller of both good and evil and as such they will point out everyone elses good and evil (extroverts), carnal mind loves this one. But they will never look inside themselves as they believe they are fine, all the while slowly dying due to the reward of sin within them.
Isaiah 45:7 "I form the light, and create darkness; I make peace, and CREATE EVIL: I THE LORD do all these things."
The question we should be asking ourselves is why did the Lord create evil? So all would have this experience in a world of good and evil? YES!!!
Romans 5:18 Therefore as by the offense of one (Adam) JUDGEMENT came upon ALL men to condemnation (GODS DECREE); even so by the righteousness of one (Jesus) the FREE GIFT came upon ALL MEN unto justification of life (GODS DECREE AGAIN). These event were PLANNED, both of them.
This verse answers the question how would ALL FULLNESS dwell in JESUS.
Since all have sinned and come short of the glory of GOD with one exception (Jesus), God decrees that all are justified by what HIS SON did as a payment for the sin of the world. And after he made peace between Man and God the reconciliation has begun. We see this in the giving of the Holy Spirit to the ELECT of the Father whom will be the first to enter into the KINGDOM and will at that time have become just like their Father through this earthly experience.
After one is born of the spirit it begins to consume the written word of God and begins to look inwardly (introvert) and begins to notice that there is a war
taking place within themselves. A war between the new spirit man within and the carnal mind that has governed since birth. This internal war is an individual conquering of ones own carnal mind and putting to death sin within the members of its body. As this occurs the spirit man is matured and becomes more like its Father day by day until he is exactly like his Father. Knowing good and evil but yet not controlled by it, but rather recognizing it as a tool used to mature others. (They will stay out of that process in anothers life other than to observe for now).
The question you ask is not hard to answer but takes time in setting up that answer so that it is obvious. God hides his wisdom and it is only uncovered 1 layer at a time and requires concept upon concept and layer upon layer. We don't become born again and suddenly become experts. Just like a 5 year olds first day of school does not make him a physics genius. Its a gradual process.
I hope this helps, but I know it will get blasted by those who still do not see God as the controller of their lives and every event that happens to them.
Curtis
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If God is in control of everything then why would we need "faith" for anything?
(1Jn 5:19) We know that we are from God, and the whole world lies in the power of the evil one. (ESV)
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The Lord God did not plan Adam, and Eve to fall, but he did allow it, or man would not have had a free will choice. Allowing something to happen, and commissioning it is not the same thing.
Samson2020
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That would put God in the job of fixing all your mistakes instead of creating all your problems. He is in the business of the later, for your benefit. Just ask job.
Faith as in what was said earlier is what allows you the ability to trust God. This is a trust in Gods unlimited ability. It is a rooted confidence that what God has said, he will in fact do. Faith is what empowers YOU to SURRENDER to HIS care. Instead of trusting in yourself or your own ability. And Faith is a Gift from God.
So your right in that we need it but he gives it to satisfy that need.
Jesus was a perfect example of this.
The more you know the more your Faith will grow.
Faith as in what was said earlier is what allows you the ability to trust God. This is a trust in Gods unlimited ability. It is a rooted confidence that what God has said, he will in fact do. Faith is what empowers YOU to SURRENDER to HIS care. Instead of trusting in yourself or your own ability. And Faith is a Gift from God.
So your right in that we need it but he gives it to satisfy that need.
Jesus was a perfect example of this.
The more you know the more your Faith will grow.
Curtis
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Trust in God's unlimited ability to do what? Will God use his unlimited ability for me if I do not have faith in him? If I never have faith in God will he still control my life?
rhern53
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Adam was created after the foundation of the world was formed.
But God foreknew us before the foundation of the world.
Ephesians 1:
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
therefore God knew the beginning to the end before the creation of the World.
5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will
Curtis
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Knowing what is going to happen before it happens would not be causing it to happen, only allowing it to happen. The Lord knows all things and man was given a free will choice to choose whom he will serve. God knowing all things does not violate man's free will to choose. God knowing all things before they happen guarantees our salvation.
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I agree God does allow thing to happen. But God will use evil to work for the good. God can and will cause people not to understand His Will.
Curtis
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There is no doubt the Lord can cause all things to work together for our benefit to those who put their faith in him. (Rom 8:28) Those who are in the world who are darkness, their father the devil controls them. When the Gospel message came to us we choose to believe in that message that gives faith to believe.
We too were once darkness, but now we are light in the Lord. (Eph 5:8) The Lord God controls all those who put their faith in him.
Samson2020
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Curtis said:
Trust in God's unlimited ability to do what? Will God use his unlimited ability for me if I do not have faith in him? If I never have faith in God will he still control my life?
To answer the last question first. YES!! As Paul would state it "I am what I am by the grace of God." And so are you. But who you are today i'm sure is not who you were before you knew God; therefore, he changed you at least a little already.
Romans 11:7 "What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the ELECTION hath obtained it, AND THE REST WERE BLINDED."
We all by design were born into condemnation or separation from God in our own minds(blinded to the presence of God), but that doesn't mean he isn't there or doesn't exist. And it is the ELECT who know that he is there and those whom are not the elect are still blinded, (Not their fault)
Your election, if so be, has nothing to do with your abilities or works for the election of God is a matter of Grace and given to you according to his will not yours.
What he has for you is millions of times better than you can even imagine for yourself at this time. So I would ask would you rather take your own course and come to your own conclusion in the end or choose what he has for you and come to his?
A big problem with what we see today is lack of understanding that God is only concerned with the first fruits of the election in this first death that we are in now. During the second death there will be another group of elect(mainly Israel of the flesh). Maybe you will be in that one. Or even to make you consider more maybe the third!!!
As far as what he is going to do with his unlimited ability is make you worthy as his son to receive honor, riches, glory, life and LOVE within yourself that cannot be extinguished just like him. A child of God that is just like him with the same abilities as he but still in subjection to him and his only begotten Jesus through Love. This is the plan from the beginning like it or not and I cannot see why anyone would dislike this plan. Do you?
Most groan and scream at this because it doesn't involve their works (no credit). They say but I chose to follow you Lord, I gave all my money to the church every week, I was at every bake sale, I taught Sunday school for 20 years etc... and that guy (my neighbor) was a drunk and an adulterer he doesn't DESERVE this. Truly neither do you or I, but because Jesus did what he did this is our reward from GOD bought by Jesus with his own blood. But it was always GODS plan from the beginning.
You were made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death and to experience frustration, fear, anxiety, depression, joy, laughter, sin, sin against you, the wonders of Earth etc... and somewhere along this journey GOD himself introduces his Son to you, who will in turn introduce the Father and at that moment you realize there is something better than all the wonders of the Earth combined, GOD HIMSELF AND AGAPE LOVE, which is what GOD IS, at that moment you begin to wonder as we all do WHY????????? IT IS BECAUSE HE WANTS SONS JUST LIKE HIM That are not incapable of original thought as is the rest of creation. And he WILL HAVE THEM, the process he chose is for you to comprehend as he sees your ability to receive it. And he is the one responsible for getting you ready to be able to bear the news.
John 16:12 "I have yet MANY things to say unto you, but ye CANNOT BEAR them NOW." They were not ready yet and most still aren't.
B.I.B.L.E. Basic Instruction Begetting Love Eternal The reproduction of the essence of God himself!!! What a PLAN!!!!
Trust in God's unlimited ability to do what? Will God use his unlimited ability for me if I do not have faith in him? If I never have faith in God will he still control my life?
To answer the last question first. YES!! As Paul would state it "I am what I am by the grace of God." And so are you. But who you are today i'm sure is not who you were before you knew God; therefore, he changed you at least a little already.
Romans 11:7 "What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the ELECTION hath obtained it, AND THE REST WERE BLINDED."
We all by design were born into condemnation or separation from God in our own minds(blinded to the presence of God), but that doesn't mean he isn't there or doesn't exist. And it is the ELECT who know that he is there and those whom are not the elect are still blinded, (Not their fault)
Your election, if so be, has nothing to do with your abilities or works for the election of God is a matter of Grace and given to you according to his will not yours.
What he has for you is millions of times better than you can even imagine for yourself at this time. So I would ask would you rather take your own course and come to your own conclusion in the end or choose what he has for you and come to his?
A big problem with what we see today is lack of understanding that God is only concerned with the first fruits of the election in this first death that we are in now. During the second death there will be another group of elect(mainly Israel of the flesh). Maybe you will be in that one. Or even to make you consider more maybe the third!!!
As far as what he is going to do with his unlimited ability is make you worthy as his son to receive honor, riches, glory, life and LOVE within yourself that cannot be extinguished just like him. A child of God that is just like him with the same abilities as he but still in subjection to him and his only begotten Jesus through Love. This is the plan from the beginning like it or not and I cannot see why anyone would dislike this plan. Do you?
Most groan and scream at this because it doesn't involve their works (no credit). They say but I chose to follow you Lord, I gave all my money to the church every week, I was at every bake sale, I taught Sunday school for 20 years etc... and that guy (my neighbor) was a drunk and an adulterer he doesn't DESERVE this. Truly neither do you or I, but because Jesus did what he did this is our reward from GOD bought by Jesus with his own blood. But it was always GODS plan from the beginning.
You were made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death and to experience frustration, fear, anxiety, depression, joy, laughter, sin, sin against you, the wonders of Earth etc... and somewhere along this journey GOD himself introduces his Son to you, who will in turn introduce the Father and at that moment you realize there is something better than all the wonders of the Earth combined, GOD HIMSELF AND AGAPE LOVE, which is what GOD IS, at that moment you begin to wonder as we all do WHY????????? IT IS BECAUSE HE WANTS SONS JUST LIKE HIM That are not incapable of original thought as is the rest of creation. And he WILL HAVE THEM, the process he chose is for you to comprehend as he sees your ability to receive it. And he is the one responsible for getting you ready to be able to bear the news.
John 16:12 "I have yet MANY things to say unto you, but ye CANNOT BEAR them NOW." They were not ready yet and most still aren't.
B.I.B.L.E. Basic Instruction Begetting Love Eternal The reproduction of the essence of God himself!!! What a PLAN!!!!
Curtis
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If salvation is by "grace" which it is, how can anyone "access" this grace by which one is saved?
It is by "faith" which comes by hearing the Word of God. Saved by "grace" "through faith...." (Eph 2:8)
Grace means no work on our part, but only faith can have "access" to grace which a person must choose to want (faith)(Rom 5:2)
.
Samson2020
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I told you earlier that FAITH was a gift from GOD, some have received it, some he has not given it too yet. Finish the verse.
"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that (FAITH) is not of yourselves: it (FAITH) is the GIFT of GOD."
Grace you say, Is it (grace) not the undeserved, unmerited favor of God??? And if it is why would you present that YOU must CHOOSE it?
It is better accepted and to have given thanks for it than to list why you deserve it.
The verse tells us that the Grace we receive is FAITH. This is the planting of the seed that allows one to believe. Again God is the instigator of the process
not us.
"I chose you, you did NOT CHOOSE me."
"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that (FAITH) is not of yourselves: it (FAITH) is the GIFT of GOD."
Grace you say, Is it (grace) not the undeserved, unmerited favor of God??? And if it is why would you present that YOU must CHOOSE it?
It is better accepted and to have given thanks for it than to list why you deserve it.
The verse tells us that the Grace we receive is FAITH. This is the planting of the seed that allows one to believe. Again God is the instigator of the process
not us.
"I chose you, you did NOT CHOOSE me."
Samson2020
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If a man is blinded is that by FREE WILL or GODS choice?
If a man is born into condemnation, which all have been, is that by FREE WILL? Or by the wisdom of GOD?
A mans FREE WILL guided by a carnal mind always ends in destruction of both. But wait the elect are not guided by a carnal mind because they know that what they are experiencing on the Earth is training and maturing from the hand of their Father.
"All things work to the GOOD for those that love him" Why? Because they have come to know him.
If a man is born into condemnation, which all have been, is that by FREE WILL? Or by the wisdom of GOD?
A mans FREE WILL guided by a carnal mind always ends in destruction of both. But wait the elect are not guided by a carnal mind because they know that what they are experiencing on the Earth is training and maturing from the hand of their Father.
"All things work to the GOOD for those that love him" Why? Because they have come to know him.
PloughBoy
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Smile! You got my vote.
