The gift of free will.

[Rhema]

It (the KJV) is irrefutably ... the most accurate english translation.

Absolute Balderdash...

This is what happens when people refuse to think, Greg (... or can't - whichever).

It (the KJV) is irrefutably ... the most accurate english translation.

And how would you know? You've never learned Greek to be able to determine the accuracy of the translation or not, and GOD doesn't make stupid claims.

The Church of England had no clue about the Koine dialect of Greek in 1611, nor did it have accurate copies of Greek manuscripts.

Most Christians are probably aware that the New Testament texts were originally written (perhaps published is a better term) in Greek. But they are probably not aware that the New Testament does not read like Modern Greek, or the ancient texts of the Greek philosophers and novelists (such as Plato and Homer). The dialect of Plato is called “classical” Greek (also Attic Greek), and only academic knowledge of Attic Greek was available to the King James translators. Since the advance of archeology in the very late 1800’s, we now know quite a bit more about the dialect of Greek in which the NT was written. This is called Koine (or common / colloquial) Greek. The NT, instead of being written for the scholar, was written for the common man, and I proffer this link for your perusal: Differences Between Classical and Hellenistic Greek

In addition:

“One man is to be given the credit for the discovery of the Koine – a German pastor named Adolf Deissmann. Even though one or two perceptive scholars had noted the true character of NT Greek as early as the middle of the nineteenth century, their statements made no impression on general opinion. Deissmann, on a visit to a friend in Marburg, found a volume of Greek papyri from Egypt, and leafing through this publication, he was struck by the similarity to the Greek of the NT. He followed up this observation with continued study, and his publications of his findings finally led to general acceptance of the position that the peculiarities of the Greek NT were, for the most part, to be explained by reference to the nonliterary Greek, the popular colloquial language of the period. He first published his results in two volumes of Bible Studies (1895, 1897) and later on in the justly popular Life from the Ancient East (1908).”​

- The Interpreter’s Dictionary of the Bible, pg. 486.​

@Jesus_is_LORD
Kind of makes you wonder why some Christians fight so fiercely for the KJV if the translators didn’t quite have a handle on the language in which it was written.

Rhema

But please, Greg, don't let the Truth upset your fantasy. I'm sure you won't.

 

[PloughBoy]

Now you're being a troll, and I should just let it go. But maybe you are that confused, so I should clarify.

Your English language translations are garbage. You already know this about the NIV. But anyone with an ounce of integrity and a pound of effort can easily obtain a Good Greek Interlinear (see my previous links, ... or PM me your address and I'll send you one for free). A New Testament Interlinear lets one compare the initial Greek text of the New Testament with English Bibles that masquerade as "translations."

But to answer your direct question, 1/, Jesus had absolutely NO grasp of the English language, as English didn't exist back then. Historical sources show that Jesus would have spoken Aramaic, which leads to the assertion of the Peshitta Primacy. However, it's more likely that the New Testament was initially written in Greek, at least Paul's epistles to Gentile churches, so ... yes... in order to ensure that you're not being snookered by English translations published by Church Denominations that have both an agenda and a theological bias, learn the dang language.

And when this epistle is read among you, cause that it be read also in the church of the Laodiceans; and that ye likewise read the epistle from Laodicea.​

(Colossians 4:16 KJV)​

So why doesn't your "authoritative" God ONLY allow the RIGHT English translation to exist then ?? Surely you're not sitting there trying to tell me that ALL English translations of the Bible agree with one another ?? Then again, maybe you haven't looked. Here's an example:

(Matthew 4:17 KJV) From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.​

(Matthew 4:17 DRB) From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say: Do penance, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.​

And here's another example:

(John 1:1 KJV) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.​

(John 1:1 NWT) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god.​

That should be sufficient. So... which English translation did your God proclaim was the RIGHT one ??

As for ME, I found out that none could be truly trusted, just as YOU don't trust any of the churches that are around you. So I decided that for ME, I needed to learn Greek so I could read the New Testament in the language in which it was originally published in the WEST without translation or denomination bias. Had I known about the Church of the East at a younger age, I most likely would have chosen to learn Aramaic instead.


(So, where's 3/ ??)
.

So you think the Holy Spirit is silent when one reads the New Testament as it was initially written in Greek ?? Or is it your position that no one should be reading any New Testament at all because the Holy Spirit just up and tells you stuff ?? Might you clarify ?

But I do think that's the most bizarre thing I've read from you. (Not the least of which is your claim that you're the only one on the planet who has the Holy Spirit.)

And he (Jesus) came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read. And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written, The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.​

(Luke 4:16-19 KJV)​

Rhema


Good luck with that. I hope my post helped.

You might call the English translation garbage, but one thing I do know it has enough “Jesus in it to save thousand upon thousand of souls with the words that is written in it. But still it ain’t good enough for you.

WOW! What an eye opener.
“Your English language translations are garbage.”

who do you think is the creator of The English Language?

“The fool has said there is no GOD”

9He that planted the ear, shall he not hear? he that formed the eye, shall he not see?

Never ceases to amaze me, like when GOD speaks He needs to Speak in a human natural language. And GOD has a choice language He Prefers.

You might hear it in your own native language. But be sure of this, GOD has one Language He Speaks, And I am quite sure He does not need a mouth to do it with or a voice box. And it is only one Language He Speaks and it ain’t Greek, or Hebrew.

You might heard it in Greek or Hebrew, or Spanish or English. It does not mean that is the language He spoke in.
GOD has One Language He Speaks, HIS Own!
Now Figure that one out. And that is not complicated for a “finite” mind.

For what you see and what you read and what you hear just might be a miracle and a act of GOD at work.

And GOD is the determinater of what you behold.

 

[Rhema]

who do you think is the creator of The English Language?

So why didn't God have the New Testament documents written in English back then ??

WOW! What an eye opener.

PB, your fantasies are so amusing.

 

[PloughBoy]

So why didn't God have the New Testament documents written in English back then ??


PB, your fantasies are so amusing.

What makes you think I know why GOD does what He does.
I am a finite creature at the moment and since I am finite I have a finite mind and The finite mind cannot comprehend the incomprehensible . For GOD is infinite. And I would be fool to speculate.

you are better offasking me about how I like my “Pop Corn” butter or un-buttered.

“So why didn't God have the New Testament documents written in English back then ??”

who am I to question what GOD does. And do I care? Nope, I am a bond-slave. Bought and paid for. And I do not belong to myself, I have a Lord and Master.

Need I say more?

and that is a question.

 

[Jesus_is_LORD]

@PloughBoy , @Rhema @Gregoryp ,

neutral question (slightly related but unrelated to the topic at hand), not trying to prove any point (honestly),

as I'm here to learn and grow; Just curious.


What language do you think we will speak in Heaven?

(a) Everyone will speak the same language they spoke on earth (but be able to understand each other
(b) Everyone will speak some foreign language not known to on earth
(c) Everyone will speak one language known on earth like English
(d) We won't speak at all but just know in our spirit what is being communicated
(e) Other


Your answer to the question above does not prove any point that I'm trying to make as I'm not trying to make a
point, that question came to mind and was curious to what your thoughts are.

Thanks.

 

[PloughBoy]

@PloughBoy , @Rhema @Gregoryp ,

neutral question (slightly related but unrelated to the topic at hand), not trying to prove any point (honestly),

as I'm here to learn and grow; Just curious.


What language do you think we will speak in Heaven?

(a) Everyone will speak the same language they spoke on earth (but be able to understand each other
(b) Everyone will speak some foreign language not known to on earth
(c) Everyone will speak one language known on earth like English
(d) We won't speak at all but just know in our spirit what is being communicated
(e) Other


Your answer to the question above does not prove any point that I'm trying to make as I'm not trying to make a
point, that question came to mind and was curious to what your thoughts are.

Thanks.

1st. All creation is “futility” and language is a creation of GOD. Heaven itself is a creation it also will be destroyed. Per-se the “The WORDS of GOD”

it seems that Christianity and its thinking has become worldly minded. And thinks in worldly terms and have put on worldly clothes upon that which is beyond and incomprehensible to a finite and corrupted mind.
Why would we think a worldly creation like “Language” even exists in “ETERNITY”. Language is a creation created by The SON of The GOD ALMIGHTY.
And Language was Created in The Beginning and never existed before then. For Christianity has as it would seem worldly minded Christian’s who describe The Holiness of GOD as if GOD ALMIGHTY is a creature and is describe in human terms and GOD is like A corrupted human being in thought and actions.

19For the anxious longing of the creation waits eagerly for the revealing of the sons of God. 20For the creation was subjected to “FUTILITY”, not of its own will, but because of Him who subjected it, in hope 21that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God.22For we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now.

Language is a creation, Heaven is a Creation. For we will not dwell there for it also Will be destroy are you listening “Christian’s”?

And I know many are so earthly minded The Truth hurts many ears and soul. For many have been in this darkness that the LIGHT hurts their eyes. “For Humans love darkness rather than LIGHT”.

There be no such thing in ETERNITY such as Language.

For a Corrupted thing as Language shall not enter its gates or such a thing will be remembered that even existed.

Hello, are you still there?
Sorry Pentecostal’s.

no more “Tongues”


7For every [g]species of beasts and birds, of reptiles and creatures ofthe sea, is tamed and has been tamed by the human [h]race. 8But no one among mankind can tamethe tongue; it is a restless evil, fullof deadly poison. 9With it we blessour Lord and Father, and with it we curse people, who have beenmade in the likeness of God;10from the same mouth come bothblessing and cursing. My brothersand sisters, these things shouldnot be this way. 11Does a springsend out from the same openingboth https://biblehub.com/nasb_/james/3.htm#fnfresh and bitter water?12Can a fig tree, my brothers and sisters, bear olives, or a vine bearfigs? Nor can salt water produce[j]fresh.

Tongues are not going to enter “ETERNITY “

 

[Sue D.]

In the begining with Adam and Eve and onward to the tower of babel , there had been one language. God decided to create the various languages we have today. Instead of being willing to spread out and multiply as they were told to, they stayed in a group . They saw the sky and wanted to try to build a tower to reach up to "heaven".

So God made / created various languages and the people has to find others they could communicate with.

In the heaven to come. Actually , book of Revelation states at the end that this present world will be destroyed and the New Jerusalem will be brought down from heaven by God Himself
And we have a description of what it looks like.

As for what language will be spoken. Maybe the same that was spoken in the beginning by the people before the tower of Babel.

 

[Rhema]

Need I say more?

and that is a question.

Likely not, because your answer was clear - you have no clue. I can accept that you have no clue. Got it. Not a problem.

And I accept that you are indeed a servant of God.

As for me:

Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you. Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you. Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you. These things I command you, that ye love one another.​

(John 15:14-17 KJV)​

Jesus counts me his friend, and there's enough substantive fruit for me to be confident and secure in that statement.

Rhema

 

[PloughBoy]

Likely not, because your answer was clear - you have no clue. I can accept that you have no clue. Got it. Not a problem.

And I accept that you are indeed a servant of God.

As for me:

Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you. Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you. Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you. These things I command you, that ye love one another.​

(John 15:14-17 KJV)​

Jesus counts me his friend, and there's enough substantive fruit for me to be confident and secure in that statement.

Rhema

Ok, bye

 

[Jesus_is_LORD]

1st. All creation is “futility” and language is a creation of GOD. Heaven itself is a creation it also will be destroyed. Per-se the “The WORDS of GOD”

it seems that Christianity and its thinking has become worldly minded. And thinks in worldly terms and have put on worldly clothes upon that which is beyond and incomprehensible to a finite and corrupted mind.
Why would we think a worldly creation like “Language” even exists in “ETERNITY”. Language is a creation created by The SON of The GOD ALMIGHTY.
And Language was Created in The Beginning and never existed before then. For Christianity has as it would seem worldly minded Christian’s who describe The Holiness of GOD as if GOD ALMIGHTY is a creature and is describe in human terms and GOD is like A corrupted human being in thought and actions.

19For the anxious longing of the creation waits eagerly for the revealing of the sons of God. 20For the creation was subjected to “FUTILITY”, not of its own will, but because of Him who subjected it, in hope 21that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God.22For we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now.

Language is a creation, Heaven is a Creation. For we will not dwell there for it also Will be destroy are you listening “Christian’s”?

And I know many are so earthly minded The Truth hurts many ears and soul. For many have been in this darkness that the LIGHT hurts their eyes. “For Humans love darkness rather than LIGHT”.

There be no such thing in ETERNITY such as Language.

For a Corrupted thing as Language shall not enter its gates or such a thing will be remembered that even existed.

Hello, are you still there?
Sorry Pentecostal’s.

no more “Tongues”


7For every [g]species of beasts and birds, of reptiles and creatures ofthe sea, is tamed and has been tamed by the human [h]race. 8But no one among mankind can tamethe tongue; it is a restless evil, fullof deadly poison. 9With it we blessour Lord and Father, and with it we curse people, who have beenmade in the likeness of God;10from the same mouth come bothblessing and cursing. My brothersand sisters, these things shouldnot be this way. 11Does a springsend out from the same openingboth James 3 New American Standard Biblefresh and bitter water?12Can a fig tree, my brothers and sisters, bear olives, or a vine bearfigs? Nor can salt water produce[j]fresh.

Tongues are not going to enter “ETERNITY “

Thanks for sharing your perspective on the question. Much appreciated @PloughBoy .

 

[Jesus_is_LORD]

In the begining with Adam and Eve and onward to the tower of babel , there had been one language. God decided to create the various languages we have today. Instead of being willing to spread out and multiply as they were told to, they stayed in a group . They saw the sky and wanted to try to build a tower to reach up to "heaven".

So God made / created various languages and the people has to find others they could communicate with.

In the heaven to come. Actually , book of Revelation states at the end that this present world will be destroyed and the New Jerusalem will be brought down from heaven by God Himself
And we have a description of what it looks like.

As for what language will be spoken. Maybe the same that was spoken in the beginning by the people before the tower of Babel.

Thanks @Sue D. , I like how you brought up Revelation and Babel, insightful.

 

[Rhema]

neutral question ... as I'm here to learn and grow; Just curious.

Not a problem,

But, it is typically my policy to never speculate. There are several (likely numerous) theological questions and curiosities for which I don't have an answer. BUT there are also many for which I do. This is not one of them. That said, we have this interesting statement.

Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God. For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.​

(Matthew 22:29-30 KJV)​

So... we have either celibacy or orgy. The question was left unanswered save that marriage itself shall no longer exist, and Jesus focused more on the theological war over the resurrection (which the Pharisees believed, but the Sadducees denied). How far, though, does our angel-likeness extend? To that of language? To that of Singing as the universe does? (Just listen to all the fascinating radio signals coming from the stars.)

But as touching language, we have this proclamation.

And the LORD said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do. Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech. So the LORD scattered them abroad from thence upon the face of all the earth: and they left off to build the city. Therefore is the name of it called Babel; because the LORD did there confound the language of all the earth: and from thence did the LORD scatter them abroad upon the face of all the earth.​

(Genesis 11:6-9 KJV)​

Now I highlighted the purpose of the confusion of languages - now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do.

But Babel has been overcome. We now have one language amongst the entire people on Earth, and I don't mean English. I mean Mathematics - the language of physics; the language of chemistry; the language of technology; the language of engineering; the language of the nuclear warhead and now nothing will be restrained from us, which we have imagined to do. And that includes seeking a biological / medical basis to overcome physical death.

Language itself, though, whether written or spoken is a horrible way to communicate. Such problems are addressed in the stories by A.E. Van Vogt in his series dealing with "Null-A" or (in essence) non-Aristotelian logic and communication. A more academic presentation of this can be found in the works of General Semantics by Alfred Korzybski (LINK).

He argued that human knowledge of the world is limited both by the human nervous system and the languages humans have developed, and thus no one can have direct access to reality, given that the most we can know is that which is filtered through the brain's responses to reality. His best known dictum is "The map is not the territory".​

Indeed, the map (the Bible) is NOT the territory (the Word of God, whether the LOGOS-Word or the RHEMA-Word) but God help those who don't have a map.

What language do you think we will speak in Heaven?

The closest answer to this question would be -

(d) We won't speak at all but just know in our spirit what is being communicated​

We will be speaking, though, just in different wavelengths.

Rhema

 

[Rhema]

1st. All creation is “futility”

In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
(Genesis 1:1 KJV)

And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.
(Genesis 1:31 KJV)

Rhema

 

[Rhema]

Ok, bye

 

[Rhema]

https://www.jesus-is-lord.com/best.html as per usual, to save me typing,

I guess it also saves us reading. The link is dead.

 

[Jesus_is_LORD]

Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God. For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.​

(Matthew 22:29-30 KJV)​

I love what Jesus says here. We do not know the power of God.

I think in our limited minds we often look for an answer in a particular manner due to how our limited minds are. But the answer
may be so grand that even what we thought was possible, changes.

Imagine someone in 32 A.D speaking to someone from 2022 A.D.

The person in 32.AD ask the person in the future, how many people will you be able to preach to in the temples in the future?

5,000?

10,000?

The person from 2022 looks and smiles, telling them, "you don't know the power of the internet". As in these days
sermons can go out on the world wide web to millions, but not just live, but they can be saved and watched over and over, and
also be watched by people for years and years to come who were not present at the time of the initial preaching.

I think this is an illustration of the questions we ask in trying to understand the deep mysteries of God, the way we often look for
the answer is usually not the true answer because we don't know the power of God or what is even possible.

Which is while I try to stay humble and learn from all of you @Rhema , @Gregoryp @PloughBoy , gleaming truth where I can and sifting out
what seems like error. We can all learn from each other I believe.

 

[Rhema]

Imagine someone in 32 A.D speaking to someone from 2022 A.D.

I do that all the time. It is requisite of a translator.

As in these days
sermons can go out on the world wide web to millions, but not just live, but they can be saved and watched over and over, and
also be watched by people for years and years to come who were not present at the time of the initial preaching.

Yet Jesus did give this warning....

Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.​

(Matthew 23:15 KJV)​

The internet is making more children of hell than you could possibly imagine too.

God bless,
Rhema

 

[Jesus_is_LORD]

The internet is making more children of hell than you could possibly imagine too.

God bless,
Rhema

Yes, but look at it this way.

By default everyone is going to hell.

It is not as if necessarily that all these people were born on their way going to heaven and NOW the internet snatched them
up and is dragging them to hell.

By default we are all born headed for hell. The road to heaven was narrow in Jesus days, and remains narrow in these days.
Yet in these days there is much more opportunity to read God's WORD. Yes sin has increased but where sin increases Grace increases all the more.

I would say that both parts are magnified by the internet, those who want to draw closer to God have much opportunity and likewise temptation
is even greater, I agree.

But remember no one is born headed to heaven, and is snatched off course by the devil. We are all born headed for hell thus the need to be born again.
It is not a matter of a hospital where someone comes in shooting people who are alive and killing them, taking their life away; instead,
it is a matter of a graveyard where everyone is dead and someone is going in and resurrecting the dead, bringing dead souls to life; By default
we are all dead, so the emphasis isn't about what is killing us or dragging us to hell (we are born dead -- and were already preset for hell since Adam & Eve sinned),
the emphasis is now on what will bring us life.

And Jesus tells us that none of His will be snatched out of His hands. So I believe that not even the internet can snatch you @Rhema and @Gregoryp or @PloughBoy
out of Jesus' hands, if you are a child of God who loves the Lord, you may struggle; but the internet will never make a child of hell out of either of you.

 

[Jesus_is_LORD]

" I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all[a]; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. "

-John 10:28-29

 

[Rhema]

By default everyone is going to hell.

It is not as if necessarily that all these people were born on their way going to heaven and NOW the internet snatched them
up and is dragging them to hell.

I see you've not run across Pelagius. (Yes?)

I encourage you to strap in and have fun when you learn of him.

it is a matter of a graveyard where everyone is dead and someone is going in and resurrecting the dead, bringing dead souls to life;

Then you'd better get a backhoe instead of using shovels.

we are all dead, so the emphasis isn't about what is killing us or dragging us to hell

So you don't think Jesus was expressing outrage when he spoke of this?

Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.​

(Matthew 23:15 KJV)​

Why then would it matter to Him if, as you say, all y'all are dead? Why have any drinking age laws? Why have any legal prohibition on drugs? Why prohibit pedophilia or child molestation?

By default everyone is going to hell.

And yet...

He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.​

(Revelation 3:5 KJV)​

So you think names are added into the book of life, whereas it would seem names are actually blotted out. Curious as to how you're going to handle that observation.

Kindly,
Rhema