The Two Witnesses? Dreams and Visions?

[Bill]

You have weird views Bill, I do not give one iota what the so called ranking system states. I am here because I like the fellowship, most of the time,I am disabled, I am retired, I have time on my hands, I am not here to bicker with people who make statements like some you have made above.

You make statements to condemn how the website is run, forum is run, we don't want to lose you brother, but like me there are two options. Make a suggestion through the Chad, or don't look at them.

As for myself, I do come and go, not in a negative sense. There are times when I have to withdraw due to health, and times when I fight it as long as I can. I love to help people where I can, i love to dig deep into scripture, scripture is always worth debating, considering as many verses on a topic as possible, allowing the Holy Spirit to guide us individually and as a group. There are many surprises in scripture, we should always be open and ready for them.

To be honest Bill, you seem to have negative comments, when ever someone says something that doesn't match your thinking.

Peace be with you brother.

But what about using the Gifts of the Spirit . Why not seek God's counsel on questions such as this ?

It could very well be , people do not know how to hear God .

Claiming to be in the Spirit is fine and dandy . But like all things , they need to be practised .

A person may feel he is a good carpenter , or artist . But if he doesnt use that gift , it gets " rusty " . It is true too with the Gifts . If you dont practise them , use them . Then you really dont know what you have .

For some , hearing the Lord takes time . Years . Others hear the Lords voice as clear as a neighbor talks to you . It has nothing to do with how great your faith is . It does have to do with how the Lord chooses to reveal Himself to you.

The same is true with individuals who walk with God , or groups who have various names such as Baptist , Lutheran, Church of God , and even Catholic . As Jesus said . If they are with us , then they are not against us . All the politics of denominations dont matter , all that really matters are the core principles

 

[Sue D.]

The RCC is not Christian. Spiritual gifts are given by the Holy Spirit.

 

[Trevor]

I have been to many Baptist Churches . They are not all the same .

Some are very much like the Pentecostals. Filled with ' emotion ' and the Spirit , and others that were much more quiet and reserved , and filled with the Spirit .

I like to think of all of us and those " man made " ( not really man made ) churches as part of God's Orchestra.

I believe there are God's people throughout christendom and they will become visible at the separation of the sheep and the Goats.

 

[Trevor]

Well said . Its exactly the way i see it , including that the Jews are still there .

There is something interesting with the Jews which i can believe is ignored by some . . When God spoke to Moses , He said " I Am " . But this is as close as it gets in the English verbiage. As the literal translation would be " I's Am Whom Am " . Its a ' singular plural noun ' Ancient Hebrew . At the time of Moses , they already knew there was God , and the Spirit of God . And that God was One

Thanks Bill, that's a welcome bit of English verbiage, I shall add it to my store of understanding. I got the message when God said "Let us make man in our image" bless you bro.

 

[Bill]

The RCC is not Christian. Spiritual gifts are given by the Holy Spirit.

How would you know that. Have you ever talked to anyone? They will tell you that Jesus Christ is their Lord and Savior . That Jesus died for our sins. That Jesus rose from the dead. And that He rose into Heaven.

You believe exactly the same as they do in the core beliefs.

Didn't Jesus say to us all of us and the apostles if they're with us they're not against us

 

[Bill]

I believe there are God's people throughout christendom and they will become visible at the separation of the sheep and the Goats.

Yes Jesus shows us that when he talks about the judgement he talks about The Virtuous and he tells him to come with me and they asked him why what have we done they didn't even recognize Jesus the other guy the one that said but I cast out demons in your name I healed people in your name and the Lord said away from me I never knew you and yet The Virtuous didn't say that they didn't even know who Jesus was and Jesus said when you did all these things when you help the pouring you fed the hungry and you healed the sick what year did all these things you did them for me

 

[Bill]

Thanks Bill, that's a welcome bit of English verbiage, I shall add it to my store of understanding. I got the message when God said "Let us make man in our image" bless you bro.

That's really good I didn't even think about that.

Sometimes when I think about when God said let us make man in our image the image wasn't the physical being so much as it was the trinity that we are at Trinity within ourselves mind heart spirit

 

[B-A-C]

You believe exactly the same as they do in the core beliefs.

You obviously haven't talked to the same ones I have.

Jesus isn't our mediator, Mary is.
Jesus isn't the head of the church, the Pope is.
The Holy Spirit isn't our intercessor, the (dead) Saints are.
According to Pope Francis, gay clergy is OK.
The immaculate conception wasn't Jesus, it was Mary.
Jesus doesn't forgive your sins, the church does (and they can decide not to)
Jesus didn't break the curse of sin, Mary did (she was sinless before Jesus was born, and after).
Jesus isn't our high priest directly, we still need priests to confess to, and make sacrifices for us.
If I give the church money for indulges, they can forgive my sins.
Mary isn't only the mother of the human part of Jesus, she is the "mother is God".
Nuns and clergy need to be celibate.
Mass isn't a ceremony of remembrance of Christ's broken body and His blood, but an actual sacrifice. (They sacrifice Jesus daily )
By the way, if you weren't baptized in the RCC church, you're not baptized, and you're not saved.
If you weren't married in a RCC church, you're not really married in the eyes of God.
You don't confess your sins to Jesus, you confess them to a priest.
Dogma, Catechisms, and church traditions have as much weight as the Bible.

No doubt there are some saved Catholics. No doubt there are some "un-saved" people who profess to be Protestants.
But even so... I wouldn't say we have the same core beliefs.

 

[Trevor]

That's really good I didn't even think about that.

Sometimes when I think about when God said let us make man in our image the image wasn't the physical being so much as it was the trinity that we are at Trinity within ourselves mind heart spirit

I would say more flesh, soul and spirit. Flesh=senses, soul=will, intellect and emotions and spirit=conscience, intuition and Communion. The interesting subject is the conflict between them, caused by the fall in the garden.

 

[Trevor]

Yes Jesus shows us that when he talks about the judgement he talks about The Virtuous and he tells him to come with me and they asked him why what have we done they didn't even recognize Jesus the other guy the one that said but I cast out demons in your name I healed people in your name and the Lord said away from me I never knew you and yet The Virtuous didn't say that they didn't even know who Jesus was and Jesus said when you did all these things when you help the pouring you fed the hungry and you healed the sick what year did all these things you did them for me

I believe we all have supprises coming Bill, and none of us should be complacent.

 

[Bill]

I would say more flesh, soul and spirit. Flesh=senses, soul=will, intellect and emotions and spirit=conscience, intuition and Communion. The interesting subject is the conflict between them, caused by the fall in the garden.

The only reason that I don't say the flesh is that it's written in the scripture that our bodies are the Temple of the Holy Spirit. And the body is made not to be eternal.

So if we say that were in the image of God it must be something that's Eternal as well

So then all you have to do is you look at what Jesus tells us to love God with love God with all your heart love God with all your mind love God with all your spirit.

And that's where I draw my conclusion from

 

[Bill]

You obviously haven't talked to the same ones I have.

Jesus isn't our mediator, Mary is.
Jesus isn't the head of the church, the Pope is.
The Holy Spirit isn't our intercessor, the (dead) Saints are.
According to Pope Francis, gay clergy is OK.
The immaculate conception wasn't Jesus, it was Mary.
Jesus doesn't forgive your sins, the church does (and they can decide not to)
Jesus didn't break the curse of sin, Mary did (she was sinless before Jesus was born, and after).
Jesus isn't our high priest directly, we still need priests to confess to, and make sacrifices for us.
If I give the church money for indulges, they can forgive my sins.
Mary isn't only the mother of the human part of Jesus, she is the "mother is God".
Nuns and clergy need to be celibate.
Mass isn't a ceremony of remembrance of Christ's broken body and His blood, but an actual sacrifice. (They sacrifice Jesus daily )
By the way, if you weren't baptized in the RCC church, you're not baptized, and you're not saved.
If you weren't married in a RCC church, you're not really married in the eyes of God.
You don't confess your sins to Jesus, you confess them to a priest.
Dogma, Catechisms, and church traditions have as much weight as the Bible.

No doubt there are some saved Catholics. No doubt there are some "un-saved" people who profess to be Protestants.
But even so... I wouldn't say we have the same core beliefs.

All my friends everyone I know that are Catholic believe is I have spoken.

I know there are some that are off on that track but I typically correct them whenever I encounter them and I use the scripture to do so did try to show them you know it's not the church it's not Mary it's not the Saints and it's not the Pope.

The whole focus of all included you know if you look at Marian the scripture she always focused everyone to Jesus if you look at all of the Apostles they always focused everyone that Jesus and the Catholic Church focuses all of its attention on Jesus.

I think in all churches the politics kind of gets a little bit involve too far sometimes what I mean by politics is all the things that the church stands for in its own little rights you know a good example would be the group in southeast United States that call themselves The Holy Ghost people. They are also known as the snake handlers.

Now although they preach about Jesus and everything else they go too far when it comes to dealing with snakes because they only use that one passage as the whole basis of their Church where Paul was bitten by a poisonous snake and live and so they bring in poisonous snakes for people to prove their faith with by sticking their hand in a box with a rattlesnake or something you know.

I know some churches that have the filling of the Holy Spirit however in the church itself they say that if a person doesn't speak in tongues that that person doesn't have the gifts of the Holy Spirit which is ridiculous as well. As not everybody is given the gift of speaking in tongues.

Some of the old charismatic groups were the same way.

By far all the churches have something I'm sure but from what I know of God and how he looks at things that he cannot help but to love people even though people do silly things all the time

 

[Bill]

I believe we all have supprises coming Bill, and none of us should be complacent.

Is indeed a lot of surprises I think my favorite surprise that I see coming to the Christians is once they realize how much faith that they can have and how deep that faith will become

 

[Brother-Paul]

But what about using the Gifts of the Spirit . Why not seek God's counsel on questions such as this ?

It could very well be , people do not know how to hear God .

Go ahead my friend, we are all members of the body of Christ, we are to encourage one another in Christ Jesus. But also make clear, in love, items of scripture that appear to be or could be miss understood.

Claiming to be in the Spirit is fine and dandy . But like all things , they need to be practised .

So true Bill.

A person may feel he is a good carpenter , or artist . But if he doesnt use that gift , it gets " rusty " . It is true too with the Gifts . If you dont practise them , use them . Then you really dont know what you have .

I know what you are saying Bill, I share this not as critism, but just that it made me laugh. (I have a funny sense of humour at times)
I have never seen a piece of wood or a picture go rusty Bill (Hope it is received in fun)

For some , hearing the Lord takes time . Years . Others hear the Lords voice as clear as a neighbor talks to you . It has nothing to do with how great your faith is . It does have to do with how the Lord chooses to reveal Himself to you.

It took me many years to hear the Lord Bill, I was abused by a vicar in my teens, I came to hate him and everything he stood for. Approximately 25 years later I turned in a sixpence (Cent in USA), the change was so much it almost cost me my marriage and children. My wife said 'I was not the man she married'. It was one hell of a spiritual battle, but through prayer and love, avoiding arguments, over time things changed and settled. My wife has still not accepted the Lord, there is no fence as we know but she is so close to being on the right side the wind from a sparrow could make her see the light and be in the light. We put everything in the Lord's Hands, we claim our married partners Salvation, hearts have to change, it takes time, 30 years is pushing it, but I wait on the Lord my friend. I know in my heart she will accept the Lord, I believe in my heart she will submit to the Lord, timing is His, we just have to believe and not doubt my friend, as I am sure you already know.

The same is true with individuals who walk with God , or groups who have various names such as Baptist , Lutheran, Church of God , and even Catholic . As Jesus said . If they are with us , then they are not against us . All the politics of denominations dont matter , all that really matters are the core principles

Name tags mean nothing brother, like the ones you state they, in effect, just put certain groups into pigeon holes.

Politics has nothing to do with Faith in Christ, except we are to accept those in authority.

Denominations are man made, but they are not churches, they are not the ekklesia. Only those who are born again from above are saved, only those who born again from above belong to the ekklesia, the Body of Christ. Congregations of born again people are the ekklesia, congregations of saved and unsaved are not, only the born again are saved souls. John 3:1-21 If God is not their Father the devil is, Jesus' own words my friend.

These verses need to be quoted correctly, you said... 'If they are with us , then they are not against us' scripture actually states...

Mark 9:38-41 (NKJV)
38 Now John answered Him, saying, "Teacher, we saw someone who does not follow us casting out demons in Your name, and we forbade him because he does not follow us."
39 But Jesus said, "Do not forbid him, for no one who works a miracle in My name can soon afterward speak evil of Me.
40 For he who is not against us is on our side.
41 For whoever gives you a cup of water to drink in My name, because you belong to Christ, assuredly, I say to you, he will by no means lose his reward.

Shalom

 

[Trevor]

The only reason that I don't say the flesh is that it's written in the scripture that our bodies are the Temple of the Holy Spirit. And the body is made not to be eternal.

So if we say that were in the image of God it must be something that's Eternal as well

So then all you have to do is you look at what Jesus tells us to love God with love God with all your heart love God with all your mind love God with all your spirit.

And that's where I draw my conclusion from

I suppose that I prefer flesh because my senses are actually flesh, my tongue, my eyes, my hands etc. and I see my flesh as the outer court of my temple.

Is indeed a lot of surprises I think my favorite surprise that I see coming to the Christians is once they realize how much faith that they can have and how deep that faith will become

I believe there are many Christians who, when in conversation, experience scripture rising up in their hearts with the answers to questions, and have not yet realised that it is the Spirit teaching them. I realised only recently that it was the Spirit teaching me, and not my memory remembering scriptures that I have read. The realisation was an epiphany for me. and caused me to realise, I was more mature than I thought I was.

 

[Bill]

Go ahead my friend, we are all members of the body of Christ, we are to encourage one another in Christ Jesus. But also make clear, in love, items of scripture that appear to be or could be miss understood.




So true Bill.




I know what you are saying Bill, I share this not as critism, but just that it made me laugh. (I have a funny sense of humour at times)
I have never seen a piece of wood or a picture go rusty Bill (Hope it is received in fun)





It took me many years to hear the Lord Bill, I was abused by a vicar in my teens, I came to hate him and everything he stood for. Approximately 25 years later I turned in a sixpence (Cent in USA), the change was so much it almost cost me my marriage and children. My wife said 'I was not the man she married'. It was one hell of a spiritual battle, but through prayer and love, avoiding arguments, over time things changed and settled. My wife has still not accepted the Lord, there is no fence as we know but she is so close to being on the right side the wind from a sparrow could make her see the light and be in the light. We put everything in the Lord's Hands, we claim our married partners Salvation, hearts have to change, it takes time, 30 years is pushing it, but I wait on the Lord my friend. I know in my heart she will accept the Lord, I believe in my heart she will submit to the Lord, timing is His, we just have to believe and not doubt my friend, as I am sure you already know.




Name tags mean nothing brother, like the ones you state they, in effect, just put certain groups into pigeon holes.

Politics has nothing to do with Faith in Christ, except we are to accept those in authority.

Denominations are man made, but they are not churches, they are not the ekklesia. Only those who are born again from above are saved, only those who born again from above belong to the ekklesia, the Body of Christ. Congregations of born again people are the ekklesia, congregations of saved and unsaved are not, only the born again are saved souls. John 3:1-21 If God is not their Father the devil is, Jesus' own words my friend.

These verses need to be quoted correctly, you said... 'If they are with us , then they are not against us' scripture actually states...

Mark 9:38-41 (NKJV)
38 Now John answered Him, saying, "Teacher, we saw someone who does not follow us casting out demons in Your name, and we forbade him because he does not follow us."
39 But Jesus said, "Do not forbid him, for no one who works a miracle in My name can soon afterward speak evil of Me.
40 For he who is not against us is on our side.
41 For whoever gives you a cup of water to drink in My name, because you belong to Christ, assuredly, I say to you, he will by no means lose his reward.

Shalom

Hello again brother , there are a lot of things that we you and I think a lot of like on but there are definitely some areas that you and I do not see the same on.

It could be just your terminology talking about the souls who are saved versus those who are not saved.

As for myself I don't look at people as being unsaved rather they are future potential Children of God .

The present task that God has given to me is to be a Witness of the Truth. And I'm telling you making such judgments on people before they stand before God is not safe for you to make. Because there is only One Judge and you are not the One . Everyone on planet Earth or off the planet like Spacemen and so on have every right and chance to become cChildren of the Most High. It is not our place did Judge any of them except in correcting their behavior such as failing to follow the Ten Commandments

 

[Bill]

I suppose that I prefer flesh because my senses are actually flesh, my tongue, my eyes, my hands etc. and I see my flesh as the outer court of my temple.

I believe there are many Christians who, when in conversation, experience scripture rising up in their hearts with the answers to questions, and have not yet realised that it is the Spirit teaching them. I realised only recently that it was the Spirit teaching me, and not my memory remembering scriptures that I have read. The realisation was an epiphany for me. and caused me to realise, I was more mature than I thought I was.

That is really good, the movement of the Spirit will happen more often then you realize and it's always kind of cool when you have to sit back and listen to yourself talk as a Spirit is moving inside of you

I'm really happy for you.

May God's Blessings never cease in your life may God's Love always fill your heart

 

[Bill]

Go ahead my friend, we are all members of the body of Christ, we are to encourage one another in Christ Jesus. But also make clear, in love, items of scripture that appear to be or could be miss understood.




So true Bill.




I know what you are saying Bill, I share this not as critism, but just that it made me laugh. (I have a funny sense of humour at times)
I have never seen a piece of wood or a picture go rusty Bill (Hope it is received in fun)





It took me many years to hear the Lord Bill, I was abused by a vicar in my teens, I came to hate him and everything he stood for. Approximately 25 years later I turned in a sixpence (Cent in USA), the change was so much it almost cost me my marriage and children. My wife said 'I was not the man she married'. It was one hell of a spiritual battle, but through prayer and love, avoiding arguments, over time things changed and settled. My wife has still not accepted the Lord, there is no fence as we know but she is so close to being on the right side the wind from a sparrow could make her see the light and be in the light. We put everything in the Lord's Hands, we claim our married partners Salvation, hearts have to change, it takes time, 30 years is pushing it, but I wait on the Lord my friend. I know in my heart she will accept the Lord, I believe in my heart she will submit to the Lord, timing is His, we just have to believe and not doubt my friend, as I am sure you already know.




Name tags mean nothing brother, like the ones you state they, in effect, just put certain groups into pigeon holes.

Politics has nothing to do with Faith in Christ, except we are to accept those in authority.

Denominations are man made, but they are not churches, they are not the ekklesia. Only those who are born again from above are saved, only those who born again from above belong to the ekklesia, the Body of Christ. Congregations of born again people are the ekklesia, congregations of saved and unsaved are not, only the born again are saved souls. John 3:1-21 If God is not their Father the devil is, Jesus' own words my friend.

These verses need to be quoted correctly, you said... 'If they are with us , then they are not against us' scripture actually states...

Mark 9:38-41 (NKJV)
38 Now John answered Him, saying, "Teacher, we saw someone who does not follow us casting out demons in Your name, and we forbade him because he does not follow us."
39 But Jesus said, "Do not forbid him, for no one who works a miracle in My name can soon afterward speak evil of Me.
40 For he who is not against us is on our side.
41 For whoever gives you a cup of water to drink in My name, because you belong to Christ, assuredly, I say to you, he will by no means lose his reward.

Shalom

My friend I just wanted to let you know before it happens . Most who claim to be in this group ekklesia will fail in thier faith . Of those who fall . All will join the one world church

 

[Brother-Paul]

Hello again brother , there are a lot of things that we you and I think a lot of like on but there are definitely some areas that you and I do not see the same on.

It could be just your terminology talking about the souls who are saved versus those who are not saved.

As for myself I don't look at people as being unsaved rather they are future potential Children of God .

The present task that God has given to me is to be a Witness of the Truth. And I'm telling you making such judgments on people before they stand before God is not safe for you to make. Because there is only One Judge and you are not the One . Everyone on planet Earth or off the planet like Spacemen and so on have every right and chance to become cChildren of the Most High. It is not our place did Judge any of them except in correcting their behavior such as failing to follow the Ten Commandments

Context brother, it depends what is being discussed, it also depends who you or I am talking to. There are many who come on here to preach to the converted, whereas a discussion of scripture between saved souls is different.

The same can be said for discussing items related to saved souls, or those that are not saved, then there is the other stage which can be overlooked, that is when easy he sin committed, before being saved or after. A discussion may be in progress and a number of posted added, then another comes in and comments on the last post or posts based on what they just read. There are many permutations Bill that happens on forums.

You quote, considering people as saved and unsaved, not protection to be saved, the latter is correct, but if you have not picked up on the whole conversation you do not realise why saved and unsaved are being discussed. We all do it Bill, but then you suggesting i am being judgemental, yet you are judging me for the things you
you are condemning. Step back my friend, a mirror is handy for us all.

Yesterday you said the tables of posts etc was wrong, the forum shouldn't have them, as if to say I was posting to many times. I am just replying to posts Bill!

 

[Brother-Paul]

My friend I just wanted to let you know before it happens . Most who claim to be in this group ekklesia will fail in thier faith . Of those who fall . All will join the one world church

You are proving Bill, you do not know what the ekklesia is. My faith has been tried and tested to extremes at times, that I can assure you, I believe today as much if not more than the day I first believed. It is through trials and testing we become stronger on faith.

Shalom