This is shocking what this pastor said about Heaven...

[Charlie24]

You may have met him, but you don't know anything about who he really is, and the blasphemy he teaches!

Copeland has always taught that Christ died spiritually a sinner--lost, spent 3 days and nights in Hell, and was born again when God said that's enough!

I'm beginning to wonder, Rhema, are you that naive, or if you also believe this blasphemy?

 

[chihuahua14]

The New Heaven, yes. That would be a better place. The current one? According to the text it wouldn't be a better place.

But if wish to call the scriptures that @B-A-C "crazy" I guess you could.

Rhema

I am not calling any scripture crazy

 

[chihuahua14]

@Rhema You are blocked by me don't bother talking to me anymore! I won't see it anyways!

 

[Brad Huber]

Most of the scholars I've read say that "pass away" does not mean annihilation, but rather a changing from one condition to another.

They say a refurbishing to erase all the sin in the universe. This "passing away" will leave no traces of sin ever existing.

It will be a new heaven and earth in that respect.

I don't know, it's what I've read from some very respectable scholars.

When I spoke of destroying the universe, I was thinking about the rolling up, the pulling in of all matter into a super tight massive ball of super dense material, and then God speaks again, Let there be light, and the massive ball explodes creating a new universe from the old. To the best of our ability to know, matter and energy cant be truly destroyed, just changed.

 

[chihuahua14]

I just didn't know anything about a new Heaven and the scriptures @B-A-C was showing. I am not in any way saying the scriptures are crazy. I guess we will find out about all of these things one day. I guess after we die. I now know that I will no longer listen to this preacher anymore.

 

[chihuahua14]

I just don't agree with the preacher saying God does not want us with Him forever. I have heard Jesus died for us because God and Jesus did not want us separated from Him forever.

 

[Rhema]

https://www.equip.org/PDF/JAW755-2.pdf

Hank Hanegraaff is an apostate who joined the Eastern Orthodox Church in 2017.

So step up your game. You need to check your sources before you start slandering. (Your "article" is from 1993.)

Besides, the "Faith Movement" as referenced in your article is NOT the same thing as "Word of Faith" (movement).

And just because Copeland found inspiration in Hagin's sermons, and might mimic one or two of his teachings does not mean these are one in the same, anymore than the claim that Jesus was part of the Qumran community because certain of his teachings were also preached by the Teacher of Righteousness as recorded in the Dead Sea Scrolls.

Copeland is not running a church subject to the oversight of the Word of Faith ministries started by Hagin. And NOTHING in his website links back to any of Hagin's work. You're making connections that are an illusion.

With regards to his "logo," the word "Faith" isn't even present in the graphic. (You can do better.)

And regarding the tag line -

Kenneth Copeland Ministries' mission is to minister the Word of Faith, by teaching believers who they are in Christ Jesus; taking them from the milk of the Word to the meat, and from religion to reality.

I'm not sure Hagin ever copyrighted the phrase "Word of Faith" so anybody can use it who has nothing to do with Hagin, as can be proven by a quick Google search.

Here's more proof. Hagin's website is RHEMA.ORG ... so are you now going to jump to the conclusion that I'm part of Hagin's ministry because of my screen name?

And Hagin preaches the Trinity, so they must be Calvinist then??
As I said, you painted with too broad a brush.

You may have met him, but you don't know anything about who he really is, and the blasphemy he teaches!

Get your facts straight. I met with Hagin, not Copeland. But yeah, I know of certain blasphemies that Hagin preaches (such as the Trinity).

Rhema

 

[Bill Taylor]

Ok well I have never been taught or known anything about Heaven passing away Earth for sure but not Heaven. I know nothing of that.

That will be because you know enough scripture to recognize a lie when you see one. It is my opinion that Yehovah does destroy the Earth with fire but it is my experience that flame does not consume soil any more than the Great Flood did. And then scripture teaches of the Earth restored to perfection with Heaven descending to reside here for ever.

 

[Rhema]

I'm beginning to wonder, Rhema, are you that naive, or if you also believe this blasphemy?

And I'm beginning to wonder if you can read or not....

I'm not sure if you purposefully chose to misunderstand that teaching or not.

For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.(2 Corinthians 5:21 KJV)​

​

for him who did not know sin, in our behalf He did make sin, that we may become the righteousness of God in him.(2 Corinthians 5:21 YLT)​

I provided the scripture verse upon which they based their doctrine.

You are quite welcome to provide your own misunderstanding of that verse. (And I encourage you to do so.)

Rhema

 

[Rhema]

Copeland has always taught that Christ ... spent 3 days and nights in Hell, ...

For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.​

(1 Peter 3:18-20 KJV)​

And just what is this prison of spirits if not hell ???
(Serious question.)

Rhema

 

[Rhema]

@Rhema You are blocked by me don't bother talking to me anymore! I won't see it anyways!

Wow, people get so touchy when I post scripture that enlightens them to things they have not seen before.

Rhema

 

[Rhema]

I am not in any way saying the scriptures are crazy.

And I never said that you did. Please read (if you can) the exact words that I wrote.
If your nose gets bent out of shape, it's a good indication that you misunderstood what I wrote.

Thanks,
Rhema

 

[Charlie24]

For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.​

(1 Peter 3:18-20 KJV)​

And just what is this prison of spirits if not hell ???
(Serious question.)

Rhema

Paul said that Christ went below to set the captives free. Peter also said He went there to preach to the demon spirits.

Copeland is referring to Christ going to hell being a sinner, and was born-again after 3 days and 3 nights.

 

[Rhema]

Paul said that Christ went below to set the captives free. Peter also said He went there to preach to the demon spirits.

Copeland is referring to Christ going to hell being a sinner, and was born-again after 3 days and 3 nights.

It looks like you'll never going to allow yourself to understand it no matter how much supportive scripture is used.

Be blessed,
Rhema

 

[Charlie24]

It looks like you'll never going to allow yourself to understand it no matter how much supportive scripture is used.

Be blessed,
Rhema

You and I can't see eye to eye on anything, so let's leave it that way from now on.

 

[Admon Mikha'el]

At about 21:50 through 23:55 he starts saying some shocking things like
"Heaven is not the best place for you"
He then says in the book of Revelation the saints who are in Heaven are "weeping"
"The resurrection is designed to get you out of Heaven"
"God does not want you with him forever because it is not in your best interest for you to be with Him"
"You need to read Revelation 21"
"The Bible ends on Earth"

If you all don't mind please watch the whole video just so you can really understand the whole message of what all he is saying but this part was just very shocking to me and I have a hard time understanding or believing these things. How can it be better to be on Earth with all of the horrible things that happen? And with all the horrible evil wicked people we have to live on Earth with? Someone please help me with this and help me understand.

When Jesus spoke of a great falling away, He was not speaking of nonChristians....

 

[Rhema]

You and I can't see eye to eye on anything, so let's leave it that way from now on.

Well I agree that's it's difficult to be agreeable with disagreeable people...
(and reasonable with unreasonable people)

But in truth, you never really tried, nor ever posted scripture on the matter.

And you shouldn't leap to conclusions about what I believe, when I'm just posting scripture to show why THEY believe as they do.

Rhema

Peter also said He went there to preach to the demon spirits.

And just where does it say DEMON spirits? Why are you adding words to scripture? One would think you should know better.

 

[Admon Mikha'el]

And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
(Revelation 21:1 KJV)

Sorry, I'm not sure how that's hard to understand. The heaven that Dr. Munroe spoke about "passes away." So why would anyone want to stay there ??

Personally, I wouldn't want to be in a heaven that passes away.

Rhema

Well, obviously its not talking about the heaven where we will riside, where God resides. Its talking of the first heaven, the atmospheric heaven that surrounds the Earth. That's what comes of reading a spiritual book with the intellect instead of with the guidance of the Holy Spirit

 

[Rhema]

When Jesus spoke of a great falling away, He was not speaking of nonChristians....

Maybe he was speaking of Protestants.

 

[chihuahua14]

When Jesus spoke of a great falling away, He was not speaking of nonChristians....

What do you mean by this comment? Are you saying I am one of these Christians who is falling away?

EDIT:
I think what you mean is the people who listen to this preacher are led astray and fall away from the faith. Is that correct? Sorry I thought you meant me