This is shocking what this pastor said about Heaven...

[Rhema]

Well, obviously its not talking about the heaven where we will riside, where God resides. Its talking of the first heaven, the atmospheric heaven that surrounds the Earth. That's what comes of reading a spiritual book with the intellect instead of with the guidance of the Holy Spirit

Sometimes this supposed "guidance of the Holy Spirit" gets people to make things up... like "DEMON" spirits.

Rhema

@Admon Mikha'el ... are you aware that the real number of the beast in Revelation is 616 ?? And that most people are using Bibles that have a copying error in them?

 

[Rhema]

Well, obviously its not talking about the heaven where we will reside, where God resides.

Why have a new earth if nobody's going to live there? Is it like some vacation spot?

Rhema

 

[Charlie24]

Well I agree that's it's difficult to be agreeable with disagreeable people...
(and reasonable with unreasonable people)

But in truth, you never really tried, nor ever posted scripture on the matter.

And you shouldn't leap to conclusions about what I believe, when I'm just posting scripture to show why THEY believe as they do.

Rhema

And just where does it say DEMON spirits? Why are you adding words to scripture? One would think you should know better.

Those "demon spirits" are in the context of 1 Peter 3:19-20. The "prison" is the Abyss where these particular demon spirits are locked away.

In the context these demon spirits are the ones "which sometime were disobedient" during the time when Noah was building the Ark.

We've had lots of conversation here in the past as to what they actually did that landed them in the Abyss.

 

[Bill Taylor]

For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.​

(1 Peter 3:18-20 KJV)​

And just what is this prison of spirits if not hell ???
(Serious question.)

Rhema

In Matthew 27, about verses 50 through 60 we find Yashuah crucified, thetemple Curtin ripped from the top down and the Old Testament Saints marching through the Holy City. The ¿prison? Copeland spoke of, serious misnomer, is described in the ¿parible? of Lazarus and the rich man as Paradise where Lazarus is but Hell where the rich man is.

It makes sense to me that the Saints still had to accept Yashuah as their Saviour and that He preached in Paradise.

 

[Admon Mikha'el]

He was a "Word of Faith" believer, in the same barrel with Benny Hinn, Kenneth Copland, Joel Osteen, Joyce Meyers, Steven Furtick, and a host of others.

False teachers to say the least.

I learned about this cult from Kenneth Copland. He said that the Cross of Christ was the greatest failure and defeat in history!

He went on to say that Christ became a sinner on the Cross and went to Hell for 3 days and 3 nights to suffer for His sins. Then God the Father said that's enough, and He was delivered from Hell. The Cross was a failure and accomplished nothing!

You'll hear a lot of stupid things from these idiots! Why God allows them to breathe is the question I have!

Sorry! I get very upset with these false teachers, especially the "Word of faith" ones.

I have a question for the people who judge 'word of faith' preachers....

Habakkuk2:4


Behold, his soul which is lifted up isnot upright in him: but the just shall liveby his faith.


Romans1:17


For therein is therighteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: asit is written, The just shall live byfaith.


Galatians3:11


But that no man is justified bythe law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, Thejust shall live by faith.


Hebrews10:38


Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soulshall have no pleasure in him.

You go to church and you'll see that most churches don't even teach faith. Maybe you should do a study on faith and see how important it really is. Without faith you're totally hooped

 

[Admon Mikha'el]

Why have a new earth if nobody's going to live there? Is it like some vacation spot?

Rhema

Of course there will be people living on the new Earth....the OT saints

 

[Charlie24]

I have a question for the people who judge 'word of faith' preachers....

Habakkuk2:4


Behold, his soul which is lifted up isnot upright in him: but the just shall liveby his faith.


Romans1:17


For therein is therighteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: asit is written, The just shall live byfaith.


Galatians3:11


But that no man is justified bythe law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, Thejust shall live by faith.


Hebrews10:38


Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soulshall have no pleasure in him.

You go to church and you'll see that most churches don't even teach faith. Maybe you should do a study on faith and see how important it really is. Without faith you're totally hooped

I understood your post to have a question?

 

[Admon Mikha'el]

Sometimes this supposed "guidance of the Holy Spirit" gets people to make things up... like "DEMON" spirits.

Rhema

@Admon Mikha'el ... are you aware that the real number of the beast in Revelation is 616 ?? And that most people are using Bibles that have a copying error in them?

Ok You're not compelled to trust the Holy Spirit to teach you...
1 Corinthians 2:14

But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

and frankly I care little about the antichrist or the beast

 

[MedicBravo]

Copeland has crazy, soulless eyes.
If anyone has made a deal with Satan it's him.

 

[Admon Mikha'el]

I understood your post to have a question?

I'm sorry Charlie, and thank you. I'm having a difficult time focusing today. My question....Why do you judge those who teach faith, and how do you think you'll get away with it? I mean...we are to line up our words with God's Word but instead many line up their words with the words of the accuser of our brethren. Perhaps thats a major reason for the great falling away spoken of by Jesus

 

[Charlie24]

I'm sorry Charlie, and thank you. I'm having a difficult time focusing today. My question....Why do you judge those who teach faith, and how do you think you'll get away with it? I mean...we are to line up our words with God's Word but instead many line up their words with the words of the accuser of our brethren. Perhaps thats a major reason for the great falling away spoken of by Jesus

The apostle John told us not to believe everything we hear, but test the spirits to see if they are of God.

It doesn't take much testing to see that Kenneth Copeland is teaching by a false spirit!

Look at what he said about Christ dying spiritually and going to Hell.

Notice the 5th paragraph of his answer to the question, where he said that Christ went to Hell to suffer the same torment we would suffer if we went to Hell. This is a very confused person who has no idea what he's teaching!

How did Jesus become sin for me? | Kenneth Copeland Ministries

Second Corinthians 5:21 says, “For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.” At Kenneth Copeland Ministries, we believe that when Jesus died for us and rose again, He purchased for us a total and complete redemption which required that...

www.kcm.org

 

[Admon Mikha'el]

The apostle John told us not to believe everything we hear, but test the spirits to see if they are of God.

It doesn't take much testing to see that Kenneth Copeland is teaching by a false spirit!

Look at what he said about Christ dying spiritually and going to Hell.

Notice the 5th paragraph of his answer to the question, where he said that Christ went to Hell to suffer the same torment we would suffer if we went to Hell. This is a very confused person who has no idea what he's teaching!

How did Jesus become sin for me? | Kenneth Copeland Ministries

Second Corinthians 5:21 says, “For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.” At Kenneth Copeland Ministries, we believe that when Jesus died for us and rose again, He purchased for us a total and complete redemption which required that...

www.kcm.org

Testing the spirits is NOT the same as passing judgment on someone. If you do not believe what Copeland said.....Prove your view with scripture. You can..right? or are you going on feelings?
Let me ask you another question. If Jesus took the keys from Satan, and He did, did He go into hell where Satan rules, or did Satan meet Him at McDonalds to hand them over?

 

[Charlie24]

Testing the spirits is NOT the same as passing judgment on someone. If you do not believe what Copeland said.....Prove your view with scripture. You can..right? or are you going on feelings?
Let me ask you another question. If Jesus took the keys from Satan, and He did, did He go into hell where Satan rules, or did Satan meet Him at McDonalds to hand them over?

I take it then that you're a "Word of Faith" believer, or at least have faith in Copeland?

If you want to believe that Christ was sent to Hell as a sinner, the spiritual death, Then have at it.

I'll ask you the same question, where in the Scripture did Copeland find this?

He didn't, it's his perverted view of Christ's atonement for the sins of the world.

 

[Admon Mikha'el]

I take it then that you're a "Word of Faith" believer, or at least have faith in Copeland?

If you want to believe that Christ was sent to Hell as a sinner, the spiritual death, Then have at it.

I'll ask you the same question, where in the Scripture did Copeland find this?

He didn't, it's his perverted view of CYhrist's atonement for the sins of the world.

I have faith in the Word, regardless of what Copeland or anyone else says...You have not answered any of my questions yet, so why should I answer yours? I see in the artlicle you are so upset about, that Copeland did clarify what he meant when he said Jesus died spiritually...and he is quite correct. Separate the body or the spirit from the source of all life and you have death....so if Jesus was separated from the Father He was dead for a time. He too was subject to the laws that He made. Again....that's the onliest way he could enter hell and take the victory over satan...
What scriptures did Copeland use? reread the article.... Then share the scriptures YOU use to prove Copeland wrong. Until then, you just sound like the silly democrats that keep attacking Trump with empty feelings
Keep in mind that Hell/ Hades/Sheol simply mean 'the waiting place of the dead...Not the lake of fire....While He was there J took His victory over satan, then preached the gospel to the saved, then led the saved out of there into heaven....He could not have done that if He had not gone there.

 

[Charlie24]

I have faith in the Word, regardless of what Copeland or anyone else says...You have not answered any of my questions yet, so why should I answer yours? I see in the artlicle you are so upset about, that Copeland did clarify what he meant when he said Jesus died spiritually...and he is quite correct. Separate the body or the spirit from the source of all life and you have death....so if Jesus was separated from the Father He was dead for a time. He too was subject to the laws that He made. Again....that's the onliest way he could enter hell and take the victory over satan...
What scriptures did Copeland use? reread the article.... Then share the scriptures YOU use to prove Copeland wrong. Until then, you just sound like the silly democrats that keep attacking Trump with empty feelings
Keep in mind that Hell/ Hades/Sheol simply mean 'the waiting place of the dead...Not the lake of fire....While He was there J took His victory over satan, then preached the gospel to the saved, then led the saved out of there into heaven....He could not have done that if He had not gone there.

Like I said, if you want to believe that Christ died spiritually, meaning He died lost and doomed to Hell, you can take that up with Christ when you meet Him. This "Christ died spiritually" thing is false doctrine. Nowhere in Scripture will you find where Christ died spiritually. The Scripture says He was put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit. 1 Peter 3:18

I'm not arguing over something this silly.

 

[Rhema]

We've had lots of conversation here in the past as to what they actually did that landed them in the Abyss.

Unfruitful conversation it would seem, if it leads you to add words into scripture.

The "prison" is the Abyss where these particular demon spirits are locked away.

So your Jesus wastes his time, doing what? Some juvenile victory dance in the end zone to suit his ego?? OR... are you claiming that your "demon" spirits can get saved?

And since the word Abyss is also NOT in 2 Peter 3:19, I see you have absolutely no shame whatsoever in changing the words of scripture to suit your theological fantasies. Adding in the word "demon" and changing the word "prison" into "abyss." And you wonder why someone would think that you believe in religious fantasies?

Here allow me to show you:

εν ω και τοις εν φυλακη πνευμασιν πορευθεις εκηρυξεν​

See? No "Abyss."

G5438 - Just means prison, and Jesus used that word a lot to mean...(are you ready?) PRISON.

Mat 2:25; Mat 14:3; Mat 14:10; Mat 18:30; Mat 25:36,39,43,44; Mar 6:17,27,48; Luk 3:20;Luk 12:58; Luk 21:12; Luk 22:22; Luk 23:19,25; Jon 3:24;
and the list continues - 47 times, the word prison or "under guard" is used. BUT, I should be fair and list all the times the word Abyss is used.

ZERO, nada, none, not in the New Testament nor the Old Testament. That said, there actually IS a word often translated "abyss" (though that's merely a transliteration) - G12 abussos - which the KJV renders "deep."

But don't you get it? If Peter meant G12 he would have written G12. He did not.

This is where vain imaginings come into play, connecting unrelated words to weave up an imaginative folly.

G12 is used 36 times in the LXX OT, and never does it ever mean some prison for demons. It actually refers to the deep of the oceans.

BUT maybe I missed something, so you are welcome to show me any scripture that says demons are thrown into G5438, because of the 105 times "prison" is used, it always means people.

For example:

And the chief keeper of the prison committed them to Joseph, and he stood by them; and they were some days in the prison (G5438).​

(Genesis 40:4 Brenton)​

And he asked the eunuchs of Pharaoh who were with him in the prison (G5438). with his master, saying, Why is it that your countenances are sad to-day?​

(Genesis 40:7 Brenton)​

during the time when Noah was building the Ark.

And those would be ... people. Those who had the Spirit of God breathed into them - living people - the ones who disobeyed and got their world flooded.

Rhema
PS: I actually prefer the word "VOID" for G12, though the Liddell Scott lexicon gives "bottomless" or "unfathomed" as a gloss.

 

[Rhema]

It makes sense to me that the Saints still had to accept Yashuah as their Saviour and that He preached in Paradise.

Well Bill, I've been advised not to talk with you, but I don't see how it makes sense to call Paradise a prison.

The term "Abraham's Bosom" is used as well as "hell" in that parable, and neither "prison" nor "deep" is ever used in that manner. 1Pe 3:19 and Luke 16:22,23 just don't link together.

That said, it makes sense to me that Yashuah would preach to those souls who died in and before the flood, bringing the Word of God to them.

Rhema

 

[Rhema]

I have a question for the people who judge 'word of faith' preachers....

I would add...

But Jesus turned him about, and when he saw her, he said, Daughter, be of good comfort; thy faith hath made thee whole. And the woman was made whole from that hour.​

(Matthew 9:22 KJV)​

When it happens to them, then maybe they'll know.

Rhema

 

[Rhema]

Of course there will be people living on the new Earth....the OT saints

Yet is there not one salvation?

There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; One Lord, one faith, one baptism, One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all. (Ephesians 4:4-6 KJV)​

And isn't there neither Jew nor Gentile?

For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.​

(Romans 1:16 KJV)​

Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.​

(Colossians 3:11 KJV)​

If Christ is all and in all, I don't see how there could be two separate classes of the saved.

Rhema

Imagine God not letting Abraham and Moses and David be in heaven.

 

[Charlie24]

Unfruitful conversation it would seem, if it leads you to add words into scripture.


So your Jesus wastes his time, doing what? Some juvenile victory dance in the end zone to suit his ego?? OR... are you claiming that your "demon" spirits can get saved?

And since the word Abyss is also NOT in 2 Peter 3:19, I see you have absolutely no shame whatsoever in changing the words of scripture to suit your theological fantasies. Adding in the word "demon" and changing the word "prison" into "abyss." And you wonder why someone would think that you believe in religious fantasies?

Here allow me to show you:

εν ω και τοις εν φυλακη πνευμασιν πορευθεις εκηρυξεν​

See? No "Abyss."

G5438 - Just means prison, and Jesus used that word a lot to mean...(are you ready?) PRISON.

Mat 2:25; Mat 14:3; Mat 14:10; Mat 18:30; Mat 25:36,39,43,44; Mar 6:17,27,48; Luk 3:20;Luk 12:58; Luk 21:12; Luk 22:22; Luk 23:19,25; Jon 3:24;
and the list continues - 47 times, the word prison or "under guard" is used. BUT, I should be fair and list all the times the word Abyss is used.

ZERO, nada, none, not in the New Testament nor the Old Testament. That said, there actually IS a word often translated "abyss" (though that's merely a transliteration) - G12 abussos - which the KJV renders "deep."

But don't you get it? If Peter meant G12 he would have written G12. He did not.

This is where vain imaginings come into play, connecting unrelated words to weave up an imaginative folly.

G12 is used 36 times in the LXX OT, and never does it ever mean some prison for demons. It actually refers to the deep of the oceans.

BUT maybe I missed something, so you are welcome to show me any scripture that says demons are thrown into G5438, because of the 105 times "prison" is used, it always means people.

For example:

And the chief keeper of the prison committed them to Joseph, and he stood by them; and they were some days in the prison (G5438).​

(Genesis 40:4 Brenton)​

And he asked the eunuchs of Pharaoh who were with him in the prison (G5438). with his master, saying, Why is it that your countenances are sad to-day?​

(Genesis 40:7 Brenton)​

And those would be ... people. Those who had the Spirit of God breathed into them - living people - the ones who disobeyed and got their world flooded.

Rhema
PS: I actually prefer the word "VOID" for G12, though the Liddell Scott lexicon gives "bottomless" or "unfathomed" as a gloss.

Jude makes the connection with 1 Peter 3:19-20.

Jude 6

"And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day."

These are the angels in prison in relation to 1 Peter 3:19-20. The "prison" from Peter, and the everlasting chains under darkness" from Jude is said by the scholars to be the Abyss, the lowest depths of Hell.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think angels qualify as "people."

So there's your Scripture for demon angels being cast into prison.