Trinity

[Searchingtoo]

You have given no proof that Jesus [Emmanuel] is not God.

If you think that you haven't been paying attention or, well, never mind.

 

[Curtis]

Where did you get that idea. There are over 100 places in the Bible where the term firstborn is used and I couldn't find one that did not mean first in order except sort of where Jacob flimflammed Isaac. You must of been reading some trinity misinformation. Check it out for yourself. It doesn't take that long to read 100 verses. Besides that Strong's never mention such a thing as preeminence.

From the "Complete Word Study"

Firstborn:
The word prōtótokos is also used in relation to God's creation referring to Christ's supremacy over it. Jesus Christ cannot be both creator and creature. In Col_1:15 He is placed above His creation when He is called prōtótokos

Col 1:15 Christ is the exact likeness of God, who can't be seen. He is first, and he is over all of creation. (NirV)

 

[Searchingtoo]

This does not deny or refute that Yeshua is not also God.
Given that the plan for our salvation begins before the creation of our world there is truly a great mystery here in the spiritual realm.

Ephesians 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places,
4 even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love
5 he predestined us for adoption to himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will,
6 to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved.

I'm sorry Waggles, I think I've said all I have to say on the subject. (Repeatedly) I used to wonder how some people didn't get it and then I saw a verse that explained it. It's in 2 Corinthians. See if you can find it.

 

[Waggles]

Zechariah 12:1 The oracle of the word of the LORD [YHWH] concerning Israel: Thus declares the LORD [YHWH], who stretched out the heavens and founded the earth and formed the spirit of man within him:
Zec 12:2 “Behold, I am about to make Jerusalem a cup of staggering to all the surrounding peoples. The siege of Jerusalem will also be against Judah.

12:7 “And the LORD will give salvation to the tents of Judah first, that the glory of the house of David and the glory of the inhabitants of Jerusalem may not surpass that of Judah.
8 On that day the LORD will protect the inhabitants of Jerusalem, so that the feeblest among them on that day shall be like David, and the house of David shall be like God, like the angel of the LORD, going before them.
9 And on that day I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.
10 “And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and pleas for mercy, so that, when they look on me, on him whom they have pierced, they shall mourn for him, as one mourns
for an only child, and weep bitterly over him, as one weeps over a firstborn.

Here in Zechariah 12 is clear statement in scripture that YHWH is He who was pierced [the crucifixion] and YHWH will come and save the remnant of Jerusalem from Armageddon

Zechariah 14:3 Then the LORD [YHWH] will go out and fight against those nations as when he fights on a day of battle.
4 On that day his feet shall stand on the Mount of Olives that lies before Jerusalem on the east, and the Mount of Olives shall be split in two from east to west by a very wide valley, so that one half of the Mount
shall move northward, and the other half southward.
So whose feet will come down upon the Mount of Olives?? God the Father's feet? No the feet of Jesus will do so !! Yet scripture declares that YHWH is coming down.

 

[Waggles]

I used to wonder how some people didn't get it

Ahhh now the condescension of the unlearned comes through.
All you have proved to us is that you read scripture without understanding.
As to claims that Jesus is not GOD that is quite a feat for a human mind that has never been to the heavenly spiritual realms.
Yet scripture declares over and over that Yeshua is from God and with God.
Jesus is not God the Father, but scripture does not teach that Jesus is not of God and with God.
He is the God of our salvation and our Redeemer [and this is written in the OT as well].

 

[Waggles]

Psalm 102:24 “O my God,” I say, “take me not away in the midst of my days— you whose years endure throughout all generations!”
25 Of old you laid the foundation of the earth, and the heavens are the work of your hands.
26 They will perish, but you will remain; they will all wear out like a garment. You will change them like a robe, and they will pass away,
27 but you are the same, and your years have no end. [compare with Hebrews 1]

Zechariah 12:1 The oracle of the word of the LORD concerning Israel: Thus declares the LORD, who stretched out the heavens and founded the earth and formed the spirit of man within him:

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 He was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Colossians 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.
16 For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him.
17 And he is before all things, and in him all things hold together.

Genesis 1:1 In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth.

 

[PloughBoy]

American Standard Version
Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated wickedness: Therefore God, thy God, hath anointed thee With the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

End of story. why are you arguing with this person ?

he is not going to change, but you will increase into more ungodliness.

This is Satan's goal, .not the flesh or the world, this is Spiritual, Deny that Jesus is "The CHRIST" when it comes like this to you, .what did your LORD tell you top do? have you forgot, so quickly, who is Your LORD, and what does the mean "LORD"

on thing for sure is "JESUS" is Not

Searchingtoo​

"LORD"


NASB 1995
Who is the liar but the one who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, the one who denies the Father and the Son.

 

[Curtis]

Joh 14:8 Philip said, “Lord, show us the Father, and we will be satisfied.”
Joh 14:9 Jesus replied, “Have I been with you all this time, Philip, and yet you still don’t know who I am? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father! So why are you asking me to show him to you? (NLT)

 

[PloughBoy]

1 John 2:18
Children, it is the last hour; and just as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, so now many antichrists have appeared. This is how we know it is the last hour.

1 John 4:3
and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and which is already in the world at this time.

 

[PloughBoy]

No one is living in Obedience in this room?

The title "LORD" is nothing but a name. Why call me LORD LORD and do-nothing I say. christianity is going from sad to sad.


American Standard Version
I say unto you, that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless, when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?
No.

By grace we are saved" but there will be no more Fatih in Christ Here. People with be have forgotten what faith in Christ truly is.
Revelation 13
…7Then the beast was permitted to wage war against the saints and to conquer them, and it was given authority over every tribe and people and tongue and nation. 8And all who dwell onthe earth will worship the beast—

they will be worshipping the beast , but they will be thinking, they are worshipping Jesus. He deceived The whole world.

 

[PloughBoy]

What is the correct translation of John 1 18

The New International Version translates the passage as: No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known.


English Standard Version
No one has ever seen God; the only God, who is at the Father’s side, he has made him known.

Berean Standard Bible
No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is Himself God and is at the Father’s side, has made Him known.

John 3:16 New International Version For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. New Living Translation “For this is how God loved the world: He gave his one and only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life. English Standard Version “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. Berean Standard Bible For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that everyone who believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life.

 

[Butch5]

Now we're getting somewhere. I think the way they were in unity is the way Jesus described it in John 17:20-23 - "I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will believe in Me through their word; that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me. And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one: I in them, and You in Me; that they may be made perfect in one, and that the world may know that You have sent Me, and have loved them as You have loved Me."

Sometime people use John 10:30 where Jesus said "I and My Father are one.” to prove Jesus is God, but as you can see just a little further in John he explained more clearly what he meant. Notice also that he said "the glory which You gave Me I have given them" which shows having Gods glory is not equivalent with being God.

It's been my experience that many either don't understand or choose not to acknowledge the way language is used. The Scriputres are full of metaphors and other figures such as allegories and the like. There is sarcasm, poetry parallelisms, and more. Yet it seems to me that most read the Scriputres as an instruction manual, not taking these things into account.

 

[Butch5]

The word God is a title. To claim three persons are the same God is a logcial contradiction and an irrational statement.

 

[PloughBoy]

It's been my experience that many either don't understand or choose not to acknowledge the way language is used. The Scriputres are full of metaphors and other figures such as allegories and the like. There is sarcasm, poetry parallelisms, and more. Yet it seems to me that most read the Scriputres as an instruction manual, not taking these things into account.

The anti christ do not want to know. The devil knows who Jesus is,,,Jesus created him. don't you get it, What he his doing?

 

[Butch5]

The anti christ do not want to know. The devil knows who Jesus is,,,Jesus created him. don't you get it, What he his doing?

Sure, I get it.

 

[PloughBoy]

Sure, I get it.

ok good it is a deception, to divert you from something's else. tactics.

 

[Waggles]

John 1:17 Because the law was given through Moses; the grace and the truth came to be through Jesus Christ.
18 God no one hath ever seen; an only begotten, God, who is unto the bosom of the Father, HE hath declared him.
(Ivan Panin's Numeric English New Testament)

John 1:17 For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.
18 No one has ever seen God; the only God, who is at the Father's side, he has made him known.
[ESV]
John 1:17 For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came about through Jesus Christ.
18 No one has seen God at any time; the one and only, God, the one who is in the bosom of the Father—that one has made him known.
[LEB]

Daniel 7:13 “I saw in the night visions, and behold, with the clouds of heaven there came one like a son of man, and he came to the Ancient of Days and was presented before him.
14 And to him was given dominion and glory and a kingdom, that all peoples, nations, and languages should serve him; his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away,
and his kingdom one that shall not be destroyed.

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

This is what I already said earlier: To be hones I get a little tired of explaining John 1:1 because I always feel I'm explaining something that people who already know but choose to ignore it. Anyway, Here goes. There is no indefinite (a, an) article in the Greek. (sound familiar) but there is a definite article (the). The only way to distinguish between God and a god is to either use the article before God to show it is "the" God or leave out the article to show it is "a" god. This is how John 1:1 was written: In the beginning was "the" (Def. Art.) Word and "the" (D.A.) Word was with "the" (D.A.) God and "the" (D.A.) Word was a (No D.A) god. I don't think it was an accident that John used the definite article every time except the last time when he left it out because he knew what that meant. In the Coptic Greek there is an indefinite article and it is used where it says "the word was a (indefinite art.) god.

There is not such a thing as "a god". God, by the very definition in Gen. 1:1, is the creator of all things, including other "elohim" in heaven, a better translation would be "dieties" or "heavenly hosts". Those are known as God's "divine council", and they are all created by God. This definition is reiterated in John 1:2-3 - NOT John 1:1, that Jesus is the creator of all things.

Again, I don't need to parse ancient Greek to know this, I just simply let the Scripture interpret itself, instead of stucking in a tunnel vision and a reductionist mindset like you.

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

Also, since you claim Jesus is the one true God manifested in the form of a man. Can you please show me that verse?

Gen. 18:1 - Then the Lord (YHWH) appeared to him (Abraham) by the terebinth trees of Mamre, as he was sitting in the tent door in the heat of the day. So he (Abraham) lifted his eyes and looked, and behold, three men (YHWH and two angels) were standing by him; and when he saw them, he ran from the tent door to meet them, and bowed himself to the ground, and said, “My Lord (YHWH), if I have now found favor in Your sight, do not pass on by Your servant.

God appeared to Abraham as a MAN, He is positively identified as YHWH with no ambiguity. Jesus is just the name of His human form. You deny Jesus, you deny God.

 

[Butch5]

Gen. 18:1 - Then the Lord (YHWH) appeared to him (Abraham) by the terebinth trees of Mamre, as he was sitting in the tent door in the heat of the day. So he (Abraham) lifted his eyes and looked, and behold, three men (YHWH and two angels) were standing by him; and when he saw them, he ran from the tent door to meet them, and bowed himself to the ground, and said, “My Lord (YHWH), if I have now found favor in Your sight, do not pass on by Your servant.

God appeared to Abraham as a MAN, He is positively identified as YHWH with no ambiguity. Jesus is just the name of His human form. You deny Jesus, you deny God.

Go to the next chapter and you'll find two Yahweh's