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Universalism - a discussion

I agree, and in so doing, we would be unanimous in our estimation that a great number who frequent this site (and the majority of other sites in the same genre) are "walking disorderly" (2 Thes. 3:6) - believers and posers alike.

Believers do have a charge: Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us; For yourselves know how ye ought to follow us: for we behaved not ourselves disorderly among you; Neither did we eat any man's bread for nought; but wrought with labour and travail night and day, that we might not be chargeable to any of you: Not because we have not power, but to make ourselves an ensample unto you to follow us. (2 Thes. 3:6-9). Unfortunately, we cannot not assume that every poster is a "brother."

Largely it's the tares (but not always) who go back and forth saying `you see what he/she said? Don't you think that's atrocious?' They can then take the response and send it all around until they've stirred up "certain lewd fellows of the baser sort, and gathered a company, and set all the city on an uproar." (Acts 17:5). And these tares can be very subtle in their ravaging of their prey. In the ensuing turmoil, they then seek to capitalize on it by insinuating themselves as the defenders of truth.

Unfortunately, unwary believers are easily sucked into this repetitive maelstrom that seems to present a clear case of good versus evil. But truth is the first casualty of war, and in the spiritual warfare that is raging even now, the Christian forum has become a stronghold of Satan. Indeed, there seems to be a spirit associated with the very concept - thus I choose to avoid that unsavory arena on the internet unless directed otherwise by my Master.

Even though such forums are a very economical and inexpensive way to communicate, the spiritual price tag is too high. The sad truth is, the forums reduce everything to its lowest common denominator and the world's Christians are poorer for it.


This is truly good to see i.e. the nexus of the problem brought out into the open.


I just knew you were gonna ask that. :eek:

Well, I'm always one for raising the bar, but again, we're stuck with that "lowest common denominator" playbook. I've seen other sites specify more particulars in their ToS. And of course the mod's would then need to be on that same page by actively enforcing the ToS anyway. While someone has to wield the ruler, too often I've seen mod's do too little in trying to maintain the higher ground.

As a self-employed guy, I've always insisted on a clear "original agreement" before entering into any business deals/arrangements. It's inevitable that, sooner or later, the deal will go sideways, if only temporarily. So the original agreement serves as the one and only feature that keeps the parties on track. And for forums such as this, the "original agreement" would be a very clear and very thorough and actively enforced ToS.
Amen!
 
In my experience the vast majority of Christians reject scriptures that don't fit their theology. Take the following verse as an example. It says that Jesus IS the savior of ALL people. Is that true? Will Jesus actually save ALL people as this verse says?

1 Timothy 4:10 For to this end we toil and strive, because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all people, especially of those who believe.

Marston, your reading of the verse is correct, but you are only reading half of the scripture on the topic.

When the devil said to Jesus ''jump and angels will catch you'', he was correct, but it was a half-truth.

Scripture also teaches eternal punishment for those who reject Jesus. 1 + 1 = 2.

Sound equations:

1. God wills all be saved / Jesus' saviour of all mankind + Mankind never wants to accept Jesus = Free will.

2. God forces all people to get baptised and washed by the blood of Jesus + many continue to hate Jesus = Silly God

If people could be rehabilitated, they would be! God is not silly!!! Scripture makes it clear that many are sold out to a love of what is evil and beyond rehabilitation.
 
Calling out "Heresy" only needs to make sense to the person doing the talking. :(
At least until they report it to the governing authorities, who have to make the decision on whether it is or is not and then rule on what to do about it. That is why setting a definition on what "Heresy" is necessary but can fluctuate depending on the governing authority.

So, whether it was or was not Heretical, the teachings of Jesus, was up to the religious leaders of the time to determine as far as I can tell. It doesn't mean they were right, but they had the authority to do so. That is why great care must be taken, or an innocent person could wind up being crucified. :(

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
\o/
<><

Thanks

A dark place in need of the gospel light.

I would offer in that way there must be differences of opinion (heresies) of what each person thinks Christ is teaching. The kingdom from within "living temple " does not come by the witness of the eye the temporal dying shadows of the eternal not seen.

There can be different traditions of mankind as long as they do not do despite to the fulness of grace the whole cost of eternal life .

Many false apostles bringing oral traditions of dying mankind they having no living hope beyond the grave . . . wondering suffering, Limbo Purgatory hoping the suffering will come to a end

Some teach a queen mother entity named Mary alone received the fulness grace salivation . The rest of the planet a unknown amount of saving grace.

Same queen of the Jewish law of fathers (his and hers gods) different name Gebirah. . . it is a title ascribed to queen mothers of Israel and Judah. The title means " [Great] Lady,"

2 Peter 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction

Not all are damnable.
 
In my experience the vast majority of Christians reject scriptures that don't fit their theology. Take the following verse as an example. It says that Jesus IS the savior of ALL people. Is that true? Will Jesus actually save ALL people as this verse says?

1 Timothy 4:10 For to this end we toil and strive, because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all people, especially of those who believe.
I would think it stands true

As many as the powerful Faithful Father gave to the son of man, powerless Jesus. . . they alone are empowered to come.

Yoked with Him the daily burden can be lighter with a future living hope beyond the grave the temporal.

In that verse. The especially of those who believe . . .by exercising their new . born again faith as it is written as that needed to believe. "Let there be" and it was the golden creative good
 
The kingdom from within "living temple " does not come by the witness of the eye the temporal dying shadows of the eternal not seen.

Garee, you seem like a good person, but I think some of us have trouble following some of your statements.
Perhaps they are a little too abstract and removed scripture?

"does not come by the witness of the eye the temporal dying shadows of the eternal not seen"
Where did come from? Is this something you just made up? What does this mean?

can be different traditions of mankind as long as they do not do despite to the fulness of grace the whole cost of eternal life .

"not do despite to the fullness of grace the whole cost of eternal life".

Again, what you are saying isn't exactly clear here. Again, this seems like something made up out of thin air.
Perhaps if the statements were displayed next to scripture it would make more sense?

Rev 1:7; BEHOLD, HE IS COMING WITH THE CLOUDS, and every eye will see Him, even those who pierced Him; and all the tribes of the earth will mourn over Him. So it is to be. Amen.

Matt 24:26 "So if they say to you, 'Behold, He is in the wilderness,' do not go out, or, 'Behold, He is in the inner rooms,' do not believe them.
Matt 24:27 "For just as the lightning comes from the east and flashes even to the west, so will the coming of the Son of Man be.

Luke 17:20 Now having been questioned by the Pharisees as to when the kingdom of God was coming, He answered them and said, "The kingdom of God is not coming with signs to be observed;
Luke 17:21 nor will they say, 'Look, here it is!' or, 'There it is!' For behold, the kingdom of God is in your midst."
Luke 17:22 And He said to the disciples, "The days will come when you will long to see one of the days of the Son of Man, and you will not see it.
Luke 17:23 "They will say to you, 'Look there! Look here!' Do not go away, and do not run after them.
Luke 17:24 "For just like the lightning, when it flashes out of one part of the sky, shines to the other part of the sky, so will the Son of Man be in His day.

Right now there are no signs to be seen. But Jesus says one days when He returns it will be like lightning flashing across the sky and everyone will see Him.
 
"does not come by the witness of the eye the temporal dying shadows of the eternal not seen"
Where did come from? Is this something you just made up? What does this mean?
lol
I'm not quite sure myself, :) but I take it like the saying that goes "seeing is believing", but if we are using only our temporal eyes (passing), as a witness of things that are forever/spiritual you'll fall short of having complete understanding.
It might make more sense if seen through what is written about of faith in Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen.

I haven't read all of your post so I'm only commenting on this part brother.

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
\o/
<><
 
"does not come by the witness of the eye the temporal dying shadows of the eternal not seen"
Where did come from? Is this something you just made up? What does this mean?
Thanks sorry. I hated school. especially English gramma. I was not interested in reading. I read one book 9th grade for a book report. Call of the Wild

My reading limit comics books Lone Ranger and Tonto, Clark Kent and Superman and the Milwaukee Journal green sheet. . various comic and neat facts.

I found interest in the Bible at 33 and began searching, mysteries seemed to appear along with the understnding .In that way It is difficult sometimes to convey what I am trying to say especially the signified understnding when it comes to parables ..

the witness of the eye "the temporal" dying fading shadows of the eternal not seen "the two must be mixed" Hebrew 4: 2 informs or no gospel rest no interpretation

2 Corinthians 4:18While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.

It would seem today lying signs to wonder after as if true prophecy has become a new source of parables wonder, wonder, wonder.

The Mix .Comparing the unseen eternal to the temporal seen
 
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