What if you die tonight?

[Sue D.]

Who created hell?
Who determines who goes there?
Who made the rules?
God has the ability to send people to hell and to not send them to hell. If not, then is he really God?

"Many will follow their depraved conduct and will bring the way of truth into disrepute. In their greed these teachers will exploit you with fabricated stories. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping. For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell, putting them in chains of darkness to be held for judgment; if he did not spare the ancient world when he brought the flood on its ungodly people, but protected Noah, a preacher of righteousness, and seven others; if he condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah by burning them to ashes, and made them an example of what is going to happen to the ungodly; and if he rescued Lot, a righteous man, who was distressed by the depraved conduct of the lawless (for that righteous man, living among them day after day, was tormented in his righteous soul by the lawless deeds he saw and heard)— if this is so, then the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from trials and to hold the unrighteous for punishment on the day of judgment." 2 Pet 2:2-9.

God sent the angels to hell and says he will do the same for the ungodly. This seems to indicate that god does sent people to hell, and that he is responsible for people being there.

God's Word tells us that hell / the lake of fire and brimstone / was created specifically for satan, the false prophet and the beast. The only other people who will end up there are those who reject God's way for the rest of us to stay Out of there.

God's Word tells everyone exactly how to be able to Be in Heaven.

It's up to each individual to either accept or reject the way God has provided for everyone to be able To be in heaven.

God's Word tells us. His rules cause He's the creator.

God is the Only one who has knowledge of who will or won't accept His plan.

There Were a group of angels who Did rebell -- those are the ones who got thrown out of heaven and on to this earth.

Way in the beginning of this world -- God created the garden of Eden -- the perfect environment and the 1st two people Adam and then Eve. He gave them One 'directive' -- to Not touch the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Because IF they Did -- they Would die. Otherwise they were meant to live Forever -- God created them with the ability to have children right away. But satan entered the picture. He told them the 1st lie and they chose to believe satans' lie rather than obey the one thing that God told them. So -- when they chose to not only look at the fruit, but touch and eat it -- they immediately knew they were naked and ashamed. Thus, the knowledge of both Good and evil. And they Did eventually die. Adam lived 960 yrs or so. Back then there were several men who lived into the 900 of years. Lots and lots of children were born over the course of those centuries.

God Does / Did / will send the rebellious angels to hell. As for Now -- the rebellious angels are known as demons and love to cause problems.

God is Not the king of hell. Hell is the absence of God. No one is king of hell. Satan , the beast, and the false prophet will be suffering in the lake of fire and brimstone Forever. Total darkness, knashing of teeth. God's Word tells us enough about hell to know we don't want to end up there -- alive and suffering forever. That punishment is what those deserve.

Jesus Christ, God's Son, came to this world, born as a baby to Mary and Joseph. had a ministry among the people for 33 yrs and then was crucified on the cross. He died as the Son of God , for our sins. He went to hell and back In Our Place. And He rose from the dead three days after He died. And then He ascended back up to heaven. And He has promised to return. But all a person needs to do to stay out of hell and be able to be in heaven is to acknolwedge their need For salvation in the 1st place. Acknowledge their sinfulness and that they can't save themselves from hell. Believe in their heart that Jesus Christ did die on the cross for Them, Personally, and that the blood of Jesus Christ shed for mankind / us/ is all that's needed to forgive our sins. And confess with our mouth, the Lord Jesus. Thank Him for His gift of salvation and the person is 'saved'. The Holy Spirit will come immediately to indwell our heart. There Will Be an inner peace that's never been there before.

Everything that Jesus Christ did while He was here with 'us' // the many miracles He performed/ were to show us that there was something 'bigger' than 'us' -- God the Father. And that God / Father wants a relationship with each of us.

 

[Bill]

Exactly right. God sends people to hell. He sends angels to hell and He sends men to hell. And He is responsible for them being there.

And, hell is where they need to be. Hell is where they belong.

But. little do they know...God is the King of hell. Not satan. God rules in hell just like he rules in heaven. Woe to thee. There is no escape.

Quantrill

A little food for thought. Just something to munch on. Scripture states God is Love.

In understanding what we know of Hell, the one thing overlooked. God created hell from His love.

 

[Sue D.]

God created hell only for those who purposely deceive people from God's Truth.

God Is love -- but there are also negative consequences for disobedience. We see negative consequences frequently in this world. In our daily lives. Our own poor choices and living with the results of other's poor choices.

Romans tells us that all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. And that the wages of sin is death. Physical death and eternal separation From God and His love. But the Gift of God is eternal life Through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Our sinfulness is destroying this once beautiful world that God created especially for us.

@Bill -- you kind of make it sound like 'hell' won't be all that bad cause God created it. But it wasn't out of His love -- it's meant to be a Very Negative existence that will last Forever.

 

[Vincent]

Exactly right. God sends people to hell. He sends angels to hell and He sends men to hell. And He is responsible for them being there.

And, hell is where they need to be. Hell is where they belong.

But. little do they know...God is the King of hell. Not satan. God rules in hell just like he rules in heaven. Woe to thee. There is no escape.

Quantrill

Something we actually agree on that he bible teaches this.

 

[Vincent]

God's Word tells us that hell / the lake of fire and brimstone / was created specifically for satan, the false prophet and the beast. The only other people who will end up there are those who reject God's way for the rest of us to stay Out of there.

Why do you believe this?

God's Word tells everyone exactly how to be able to Be in Heaven.

So does the Quran. Why should I believe your version?

It's up to each individual to either accept or reject the way God has provided for everyone to be able To be in heaven.

On what basis did you accept this way God has provided?

God's Word tells us. His rules cause He's the creator.

Does that make them moral? In my opinion, no, that just makes them subjective. There is a lot of immoral things that God does in the Bible in my opinion.

God is the Only one who has knowledge of who will or won't accept His plan.

God is Not the king of hell. Hell is the absence of God. No one is king of hell. Satan , the beast, and the false prophet will be suffering in the lake of fire and brimstone Forever. Total darkness, knashing of teeth. God's Word tells us enough about hell to know we don't want to end up there -- alive and suffering forever.

Quantrill says different. This is an issue with American Christianity. I can ask 15 Christians about hell and get 15 different answers and all are pointing to the same book as their source. Christians come to a consensus on any doctrine, even the resurrection and atonement for sin and all use the bible as their basis for belief. So why should I believe your version over anothers?

That punishment is what those deserve.

Why is this a fit punishment for sin?

Jesus Christ, God's Son, came to this world, born as a baby to Mary and Joseph. had a ministry among the people for 33 yrs and then was crucified on the cross. He died as the Son of God , for our sins. He went to hell and back In Our Place. And He rose from the dead three days after He died. And then He ascended back up to heaven. And He has promised to return. But all a person needs to do to stay out of hell and be able to be in heaven is to acknolwedge their need For salvation in the 1st place. Acknowledge their sinfulness and that they can't save themselves from hell. Believe in their heart that Jesus Christ did die on the cross for Them, Personally, and that the blood of Jesus Christ shed for mankind / us/ is all that's needed to forgive our sins. And confess with our mouth, the Lord Jesus. Thank Him for His gift of salvation and the person is 'saved'. The Holy Spirit will come immediately to indwell our heart. There Will Be an inner peace that's never been there before.

I did this for many years. I was a born again Christian but as Quantrill will say, I am a liar.

Everything that Jesus Christ did while He was here with 'us' // the many miracles He performed/ were to show us that there was something 'bigger' than 'us' -- God the Father. And that God / Father wants a relationship with each of us.

I would say if he wants a relationship he needs to show up. What other relationship do you have where the only thing you know about them is from a book? Also, is a good way to start a relationship to demand worship or be punished? That is not a relationship based on mutual trust or love. It is a relationship based on threats and not mutual love and respect.

 

[Sue D.]

@ Vincent -- on what basis did you become a born-again Christian . Not meaning to be a smart alec or anything. Just asking.

You mentioned the Quaran -- well -- there's also the Book of Morman -- can't think of any others at the moment.

Well -- Christianity -- God's Word -- the only bodily risen Savior, The cross of Christ provides the opportunity For a 'new' life in Christ. Through Christ. Through the shed blood Of Christ.

John 14:6 Jesus Christ is telling Everyone "I am the way the truth and the life, no man comes to the Father, but by Me."

Look at Revelation 20. The last part of the chapter, The lake of fire and brimstone and who will end up there.

No one can Make Anyone believe anything. It's your personal choice,

Well -- no human being is perfect. No poster on this Forum is perfect in their opinions. God's Word IS the truth.

How do you think we Got 'the book' which is called God's Word / The Bible.

In the beginning God created.....

John 3:16 "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that who so ever believeth on Him, will not perish, but have everlasting life."

Life is Full of punishments for all kinds of 'sins'. What happens when you speed and a police car sees you. You get pulled over the given a ticket. Enough tickets and you loose your license.

What happens if you're caught breaking into a house that isn't yours -- the police get called and you're arrested and get to spend some time in jail. OR the owner hears you and shoots you. You're being Punished for breaking a local or federal law.

by the way -- your bio info says nothing about where you're from -- you commented on American Christianity. Christianity is available to Everyone -- world-wide. So Why especially American Christianity? And this is an international Forum. At least I Think it is. Of course, there Are people from all over the world living in America.

 

[Quantrill]

A little food for thought. Just something to munch on. Scripture states God is Love.

In understanding what we know of Hell, the one thing overlooked. God created hell from His love.

Yes Scripture says God is love. And Scripture says God does hate. Doesn't it?

I have no problem in God creating hell from his love. Just as I have no problem with God hating because He loves.

The question is....do you?

Quantrill

 

[Quantrill]

Something we actually agree on that he bible teaches this.

We agree on nothing...atheist. Even when you want to say we agree, there is a lie behind it.

Quantrill

 

[Vincent]

@ Vincent -- on what basis did you become a born-again Christian . Not meaning to be a smart alec or anything. Just asking.

You mentioned the Quaran -- well -- there's also the Book of Morman -- can't think of any others at the moment.

Well -- Christianity -- God's Word -- the only bodily risen Savior, The cross of Christ provides the opportunity For a 'new' life in Christ. Through Christ. Through the shed blood Of Christ.

John 14:6 Jesus Christ is telling Everyone "I am the way the truth and the life, no man comes to the Father, but by Me."

Look at Revelation 20. The last part of the chapter, The lake of fire and brimstone and who will end up there.

No one can Make Anyone believe anything. It's your personal choice,

Belief is not a choice. You are either convinced of something or not. Could you really believe something you know is not true? I don;t think so.

Well -- no human being is perfect. No poster on this Forum is perfect in their opinions. God's Word IS the truth.

How do you think we Got 'the book' which is called God's Word / The Bible.

This is just an assertion. It needs sufficient evidence to be believed.

In the beginning God created.....

John 3:16 "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that who so ever believeth on Him, will not perish, but have everlasting life."

Life is Full of punishments for all kinds of 'sins'. What happens when you speed and a police car sees you. You get pulled over the given a ticket. Enough tickets and you loose your license.

What happens if you're caught breaking into a house that isn't yours -- the police get called and you're arrested and get to spend some time in jail. OR the owner hears you and shoots you. You're being Punished for breaking a local or federal law.

Yes and no one gets tortured forever for lying. That would be immoral.

by the way -- your bio info says nothing about where you're from -- you commented on American Christianity. Christianity is available to Everyone -- world-wide. So Why especially American Christianity? And this is an international Forum. At least I Think it is. Of course, there Are people from all over the world living in America.

I live in the US and American Christianity I know and it affects me. This is why I am talking about it.

 

[Vincent]

We agree on nothing...atheist. Even when you want to say we agree, there is a lie behind it.

Quantrill

We can agree that 4+4 = 8 right...Christian.

 

[Quantrill]

We can agree that 4+4 = 8 right...Christian.

No I would not agree with you on anything...atheist. Because behind what you may 'establish' as a truth, is a lie in the waiting.

In other words...atheist, your 'truth's' are nothing but a facade for setting up your lie, which poisons the whole well.

Quantrill

 

[Sue D.]

Belief is not a choice. You are either convinced of something or not. Could you really believe something you know is not true? I don;t think so.

This is just an assertion. It needs sufficient evidence to be believed.

Yes and no one gets tortured forever for lying. That would be immoral.

I live in the US and American Christianity I know and it affects me. This is why I am talking about it.

Okay -- you live in this country. Why do you call it American Christianity. Christianity is Christianity no matter Where a person lives. And, of Course it affects you. Everyone has a religious belief of some sort. An atheist even believes in something -- voicing a non-belief acknowledges that there's 'something' to Not believe in.

You did say that you once were a Christian -- do you believe you were born as a Christian? How did you come to believe that you were - at one time - a Christian.

A person can be presented with facts on a given subject -- are the fact accepted as being the truth? Lots of people have been presented with the Quaran as being fact. The Truth -- until they are presented with other reading material and then they have a choice-- to believe the information in that reading material or to remain with the Other reading material.

 

[Christ4Ever]

Who created hell?
Who determines who goes there?
Who made the rules?
God has the ability to send people to hell and to not send them to hell. If not, then is he really God?

"Many will follow their depraved conduct and will bring the way of truth into disrepute. In their greed these teachers will exploit you with fabricated stories. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping. For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell, putting them in chains of darkness to be held for judgment; if he did not spare the ancient world when he brought the flood on its ungodly people, but protected Noah, a preacher of righteousness, and seven others; if he condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah by burning them to ashes, and made them an example of what is going to happen to the ungodly; and if he rescued Lot, a righteous man, who was distressed by the depraved conduct of the lawless (for that righteous man, living among them day after day, was tormented in his righteous soul by the lawless deeds he saw and heard)— if this is so, then the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from trials and to hold the unrighteous for punishment on the day of judgment." 2 Pet 2:2-9.

God sent the angels to hell and says he will do the same for the ungodly. This seems to indicate that god does sent people to hell, and that he is responsible for people being there.

Dear Vincent,
Not your problem is it, since you don't believe in a God? Why dilute the reality you now are living with on such concepts as Sin, Hell, Judgment, Pardoned, Condemned, and the list goes on?
When you find yourself there, you'll be able to call it whatever you choose. Hell is as good as any name for those who are damned, and probably more so, for those who knowing the truth, chose instead to reject it.

God is not responsible for them being there. You have the free will to accept or refuse the pardon offered to you. For all have fallen short of the Glory of God. You accepted it, then reneged and turned away. The once believing self of yours would have said what to the question you have asked? Would he he have said it was God's fault or the person who walked away from His Saving Grace???

I'm sure you don't blame the Judges for enforcing the Law and sending those convicted for braking it to Jail. Some might say "Your honor, I was ignorant of the Law", but you're not one of them are you? You're not ignorant of what it means to know God's Grace. Instead you just turned away, saying "If it's not real, I don't have to believe in it. What a fool was I to believe in such a thing!" Rejecting the initial joy, of knowing that God had through Christ Jesus forgiven you. Your's will be the greater shame, for you knew!!!!!

For [it is] impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put [Him] to an open shame. Hebrews 6:4-6

However, with all that being said. I see you as being one of these two that were described by Jesus, who you also don't believe in.

"When anyone hears the word of the kingdom, and does not understand [it], then the wicked [one] comes and snatches away what was sown in his heart. This is he who received seed by the wayside. "But he who received the seed on stony places, this is he who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy; "yet he has no root in himself, but endures only for a while. For when tribulation or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he stumbles. Matthew 13:19-21

The tribulation for you is Science, Logic, and your own wisdom. Woe to you Vincent. You had that Great Pearl, and chose to give it up for a mere bauble. Part of me wants to believe for your sake and that of your family that you really didn't know the truth, or you were so young to actually understand it, so that upon hearing another gospel, yes science/logic, you were drawn to it, because it made sense to you. For then there is still hope for you. Though I think as it stands now you enjoy the challenge too much in attempting to punch holes into what Christians believe, and Scripture. More the worse for you if this be the case.

Take care in some of your responses Vincent. Staff, has patience and I more then most, and all of us a great love for those who are loss souls, but there are limits to how long they'll be allowed to continue here on Talk Jesus.

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
Moderator
Nick
<><

 

[Sue D.]

@Vincent -- on what basis did you consider yourself to be a Christian and what changed your mind?

 

[Curtis]

Mat 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

Certainly, Satan has angels that followed him in the rebellion against God, and are now his henchmen. The word, "angels" means, "messengers", so hell was made for the Devil and his "messengers" which not only includes fallen angles but also those who spread his message!!

John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Who is a "liar"?

1John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

The devil also has children who will gladly spread his message of "lies" about who the Son of God is, and what he came to do for mankind!

Mat 13:37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;
Mat 13:38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom, but the tares are the children of the wicked one;
Mat 13:39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world, and the reapers are the angels.

 

[Bill]

God created hell only for those who purposely deceive people from God's Truth.

God Is love -- but there are also negative consequences for disobedience. We see negative consequences frequently in this world. In our daily lives. Our own poor choices and living with the results of other's poor choices.

Romans tells us that all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. And that the wages of sin is death. Physical death and eternal separation From God and His love. But the Gift of God is eternal life Through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Our sinfulness is destroying this once beautiful world that God created especially for us.

@Bill -- you kind of make it sound like 'hell' won't be all that bad cause God created it. But it wasn't out of His love -- it's meant to be a Very Negative existence that will last Forever.

Dont jump to conclusions about what i am saying . I was only remarking that God created hell out of love .

Scripture states that the fires of hell come out of Satan. Or the passion of Satan .

What hell is , is the absence from God. For me, it wouldnt matter where im sent . God is always with me. I am always in His Presence.

By the way, i never worry about useless things, like " what if i die tonight " because i will not die tonight . I have an appointed place. But even when i am at that place istill will not worry. God is always with me

 

[Bill]

Mat 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

Certainly, Satan has angels that followed him in the rebellion against God, and are now his henchmen. The word, "angels" means, "messengers", so hell was made for the Devil and his "messengers" which not only includes fallen angles but also those who spread his message!!

John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Who is a "liar"?

1John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

The devil also has children who will gladly spread his message of "lies" about who the Son of God is, and what he came to do for mankind!

Mat 13:37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;
Mat 13:38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom, but the tares are the children of the wicked one;
Mat 13:39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world, and the reapers are the angels.

If the harvest is at the end of the world , why would ppl believe the lies of the devil about a pre trib rapture

 

[Bill]

My friends , brothers and sisters let us settle . Breathe a little . Let us be civil . Please

 

[Bill]

Belief is not a choice. You are either convinced of something or not. Could you really believe something you know is not true? I don;t think so.

This is just an assertion. It needs sufficient evidence to be believed.

Yes and no one gets tortured forever for lying. That would be immoral.

I live in the US and American Christianity I know and it affects me. This is why I am talking about it.

My friend , faith and belief and love are all real . And the evidence is hard as a rock.

There is an incurable desease that causes the spine to twist . Multible Scoliosis My dad prayed for 3 girls that had this in one family. He fasted and prayed over 3 months . They were all healed . At this is just one . There were hundreds of ppl my dad prayed for . His faith was solid and his love for God unmovable.

My dad is just one example. There are hundreds of Christians who God works through . Daily . Talk with Doctors , policemen, firemen even soldiers. You will hear stories from many . Just take time and see for yourself.

Some stories are unreal. But they are true.

 

[Curtis]

If the harvest is at the end of the world , why would ppl believe the lies of the devil about a pre trib rapture

Everyone who does not understand the scriptures about the resurrection and coming judgments will always say that is from the Devil until they do understand.