What Is HELL ?

[Sue D.]

The Biblical view of mankind is that we are all sinners and in need of salvation to keep us Out of hell and allow us to be in heaven.

 

[Butch5]

The Biblical view of man is that he is a physical flesh being. Plato posited that man is a spirit living in a flesh body. Thus, he espoused Dualism.

 

[KingJ]

What is Hell?

What makes us think hell is what we think it is?

Please go here:

I don't believe a loving God would send people to hell.....

Greetings Brother, More and more we see this sort of thing in one make or model. Back in the Garden... Ssssss_surely God hasssss not said..... ------- Too often the threat faced in considering condemnation is seen as a violation of individual rights. People tend to want to be their own god...

www.talkjesus.com

Will people go to hell and if so how do we know?


Bless you all ....><>

Outside of hundreds of scriptures, our working brain.

You cannot mix repentant with unrepentant sinners. You have to separate them. Hell is a home for those sold out to a love of what is wicked.

Where the wicked are, is hell. Where Jesus and repentant sinners are, is heaven. (Just look at cities in blue states )

--------------------------------

The internet is full of people asking such questions as you have quoted in your OP. What people are 'really' battling with is the fact that hell is a place of ''eternal'' punishment.

Everyone on this planet with a working brain agrees on the need to separate and punish the wicked. But, good people tend to believe in ''rehabilitation'''.

According to scripture, God does not Matt 25:46. God says that when He searches the depth of hearts and minds (as only He can) Jer 17:9-12, He finds people sold out to a love of what is evil / sin 'full measure' (Gen 15:16). As Jesus says of the devil ''He has been sinning since the beginning'' 1 John 3:8. God is not a human that makes the mistake of casting into hell someone who can be rehabilitated.

 

[Butch5]

Outside of hundreds of scriptures, our working brain.

You cannot mix repentant with unrepentant sinners. You have to separate them. Hell is a home for those sold out to a love of what is wicked.

Where the wicked are, is hell. Where Jesus and repentant sinners are, is heaven. (Just look at cities in blue states )

--------------------------------

The internet is full of people asking such questions as you have quoted in your OP. What people are 'really' battling with is the fact that hell is a place of ''eternal'' punishment.

Everyone on this planet with a working brain agrees on the need to separate and punish the wicked. But, good people tend to believe in ''rehabilitation'''.

According to scripture, God does not Matt 25:46. God says that when He searches the depth of hearts and minds (as only He can) Jer 17:9-12, He finds people sold out to a love of what is evil / sin 'full measure' (Gen 15:16). As Jesus says of the devil ''He has been sinning since the beginning'' 1 John 3:8. God is not a human that makes the mistake of casting into hell someone who can be rehabilitated.

Doesn't death separate the repentant from the unrepentant?

 

[B-A-C]

Doesn't death separate the repentant from the unrepentant?

Technically, no. The first "death" doesn't do away with anyone.
Everybody lives forever. Even those who face the second death live forever.
There are plenty of scriptures about this. The question is, where do you spend that eternity?

Everyone gets resurrected. everyone comes back to life. Even non-Christians.

John 5:27; and He gave Him authority to execute judgment, because He is the Son of Man.
John 5:28; "Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice,
John 5:29; and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.

Acts 24:15; having a hope in God, which these men cherish themselves, that there shall certainly be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.

Rev 20:12; And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds.
Rev 20:13; And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them; and they were judged, every one of them according to their deeds.
Rev 20:14; Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.
Rev 20:15; And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

Everyone dies. Even Christians. But no one stays dead forever.

John 12:24; "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless a grain of wheat falls into the earth and dies, it remains alone; but if it dies, it bears much fruit.
1Cor 15:36; You fool! That which you sow does not come to life unless it dies;

The question isn't will you live again, it's what will be your address?

Rev 20:14; Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.
Rev 21:8; "But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death."

 

[Butch5]

Technically, no. The first "death" doesn't do away with anyone.
Everybody lives forever. Even those who face the second death live forever.
There are plenty of scriptures about this. The question is, where do you spend that eternity?

Everyone gets resurrected. everyone comes back to life. Even non-Christians.

John 5:27; and He gave Him authority to execute judgment, because He is the Son of Man.
John 5:28; "Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice,
John 5:29; and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.

Acts 24:15; having a hope in God, which these men cherish themselves, that there shall certainly be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.

Rev 20:12; And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds.
Rev 20:13; And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them; and they were judged, every one of them according to their deeds.
Rev 20:14; Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.
Rev 20:15; And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

Everyone dies. Even Christians. But no one stays dead forever.

John 12:24; "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless a grain of wheat falls into the earth and dies, it remains alone; but if it dies, it bears much fruit.
1Cor 15:36; You fool! That which you sow does not come to life unless it dies;

The question isn't will you live again, it's what will be your address?

Rev 20:14; Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.
Rev 21:8; "But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death."

Actually, the question isn't where will one's address be unless you can make a case from Scriputre showing where God gives eternal life to the unbeliever.

Since man isn't by nature immortal the only way he can live forever is if God gives him eternal life. Where do we find that taught in Scripture?

 

[B-A-C]

Where do we find that taught in Scripture?

In every single verse I quoted in post #65. There are a few more.

Rev 20:12; And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne,

How are the dead standing? Even the wicked get resurrected.

all who are in the tombs will hear His voice,
John 5:29; and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.

How are those in the tombs resurrected?

Rev 20:5; The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed. This is the first resurrection.
Rev 20:6; Blessed and holy is the one who has a part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with Him for a thousand years.

at there shall certainly be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.

 

[Butch5]

In every single verse I quoted in post #65. There are a few more.



How are the dead standing? Even the wicked get resurrected.



How are those in the tombs resurrected?

Rev 20:5; The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed. This is the first resurrection.
Rev 20:6; Blessed and holy is the one who has a part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with Him for a thousand years.

Yes, they get resurrected. That wasn't the question. They question is where are we told they get eternal life? Please show me where this is taught in Scripture.

 

[Curtis]

Mat 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

The Greek word for,"everlasting" as in "everlasting punishment" is....

aiōnios
From G165; perpetual (also used of past time, or past and future as well): - eternal, for ever, everlasting.


The Greek word for, "eternal" as in, "life eternal" is....

aiōnios
From G165; perpetual (also used of past time, or past and future as well): - eternal, for ever, everlasting.

The people who will be in "everlasting punishment" (in the lake of fire) will be there the exact length of time as those who will have "eternal life" (with God in Heaven.)

 

[Butch5]

Mat 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

The Greek word for,"everlasting" as in "everlasting punishment" is....

aiōnios
From G165; perpetual (also used of past time, or past and future as well): - eternal, for ever, everlasting.


The Greek word for, "eternal" as in, "life eternal" is....

aiōnios
From G165; perpetual (also used of past time, or past and future as well): - eternal, for ever, everlasting.

The people who will be in "everlasting punishment" (in the lake of fire) will be there the exact length of time as those who will have "eternal life" (with God in Heaven.)

Is it safe to assume you beleive the writers of the dictionary rather than the words of God and Scripture?

 

[B-A-C]

Yes, they get resurrected. That wasn't the question.

It sure looks like the question.

Doesn't death separate the repentant from the unrepentant?

 

[Butch5]

It sure looks like the question.

No. You said everyone lives forever. That includes the unbelievers. The question was, where do they get eternal life? Where in Scripture are unbelievers promised eternal life?

 

[B-A-C]

No. You said everyone lives forever. That includes the unbelievers. The question was, where do they get eternal life? Where in Scripture are unbelievers promised eternal life?

Matt 25:30; "Throw out the worthless slave into the outer darkness; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Was this person saved or not? Do they feel pain after death?

Matt 25:46; "These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

Were these people Christians? How long is their punishment?

Rev 14:9; Then another angel, a third one, followed them, saying with a loud voice, "If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand,
Rev 14:10; he also will drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is mixed in full strength in the cup of His anger; and he will be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb.
Rev 14:11; "And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever; they have no rest day and night, those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name."

Were these people saved Christians? How long will they be tormented?

Luke 16:24; "And he cried out and said, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus so that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool off my tongue, for I am in agony in this flame.'

Was the rich man alive or dead when he said this?

 

[KingJ]

Doesn't death separate the repentant from the unrepentant?

Sure, of course death can. But the fact is that not all sinners deserve your definition of 'death', which is 'annihilation'.

If we all sin, why 'annihilate' some? We all sin! fact. Only God is good Mark 10:18. We judge angels in heaven 1 Cor 6:3, must those guilty of wrong doing / not following orders, also be 'annihilated'? Or do you believe we will never ever make a mistake again? Be 100% like God?

1 Pet 4:18 says there are righteous that are 'barely' saved. There are therefore those unrighteous barely 'not' saved. Does it make sense to you that one give those who barely don't make it, capital punishment? Yes or No?

Murderer, rape warranted death by stoning in Leviticus. Not all sins warranted capital punishment. Differing punishments for sins is 'just judgement' 101. Paul rebukes Christians who can't judge matters better then the unsaved in 1 Cor 6:1-9. The lost know to debate the death penalty for the most grievous of sins, only. Must we fail? Does God, fail? Imagine that.

God is just. As Job states in Job 34:12 'it is unthinkable that God would pervert justice'. Please meditate on that before you reply .

 

[Butch5]

Matt 25:30; "Throw out the worthless slave into the outer darkness; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Why do you assume people who are dead can weep and gnashing their teerh?

Was this person saved or not? Do they feel pain after death?

Matt 25:46; "These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

Were these people Christians? How long is their punisteeth?

Why assume that God is going to punish dead bodies?

Rev 14:9; Then another angel, a third one, followed them, saying with a loud voice, "If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand,
Rev 14:10; he also will drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is mixed in full strength in the cup of His anger; and he will be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb.
Rev 14:11; "And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever; they have no rest day and night, those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name."

Were these people saved Christians? How long will they be tormented?

Since they are alive, my guess is until they die.

But, how you understand these passages is still irrelevant to the question. Where in Scripture are the unbelievers given eternal life? Where is that promise.

You see, this is where Platonic Dualism clashes with Scripture. People try to make Dualism align with Scripture. However, in doing so they must change Scripture

 

[Butch5]

Sure, of course death can. But the fact is that not all sinners deserve your definition of 'death', which is 'annihilation'.

If we all sin, why 'annihilate' some? We all sin! fact. Only God is good Mark 10:18. We judge angels in heaven 1 Cor 6:3, must those guilty of wrong doing / not following orders, also be 'annihilated'? Or do you believe we will never ever make a mistake again? Be 100% like God?

1 Pet 4:18 says there are righteous that are 'barely' saved. There are therefore those unrighteous barely 'not' saved. Does it make sense to you that one give those who barely don't make it, capital punishment? Yes or No?

Murderer, rape warranted death by stoning in Leviticus. Not all sins warranted capital punishment. Differing punishments for sins is 'just judgement' 101. Paul rebukes Christians who can't judge matters better then the unsaved in 1 Cor 6:1-9. The lost know to debate the death penalty for the most grievous of sins, only. Must we fail? Does God, fail? Imagine that.

God is just. As Job states in Job 34:12 'it is unthinkable that God would pervert justice'. Please meditate on that before you reply .

I don't have "my" definition of death. I use the typical understanding of the word. A cessation of life.

Sure, God is Just. And, He said, 'the soul that sins shall die.' If God said that then it must be just. What does it mean to die? It means the cessation of one's life. If the repentant are given eternal life and the unrepentant die, aren't they separated?

 

[Bill Taylor]

A good discussion and a lot of good information to dwell upon. But there is much that is not defined and there are good cases for each answer. I studied and taught the Bible for better than 34 years and will have a definitive answer for the title of this thread as soon I can consult, face to face, with Yehovah.

But for the time being Luke 16:19-31 contains the basis for my answer. I see the Rich Man being in Hell with about seven thousand years of suffering to sustain until the Resurrection of the Dead in Hell for the Great White Throne Judgement.

In my view, Paradise was closed the day Yashua led the Saints who believed in God and then Him after spending three days with Him, through the Holy City. (Matt. 27:50-54)

Everyone on Earth should concern themselves with the Second Death in the Eternal Lake of Fire. This is the never ending death because we are created in the image of God. We all look different so, what image? From the scriptures we have learned there is an Eternal Spirit living in every one of us. We know that Yehovah has no beginning and no end and I suggest that is the image we are created in and thus Eternal Heaven or the Eternal Lake of fire.

 

[KingJ]

I don't have "my" definition of death. I use the typical understanding of the word. A cessation of life.

Sure, God is Just. And, He said, 'the soul that sins shall die.' If God said that then it must be just. What does it mean to die? It means the cessation of one's life. If the repentant are given eternal life and the unrepentant die, aren't they separated?

You are 100% wrong on death. There is scripture clearly stating hell is eternal punishment. This cannot be refuted.

Is it just to give capital punishment to all criminals / sinners? Yes or No?

 

[Butch5]

You are 100% wrong on death. There is scripture clearly stating hell is eternal punishment. This cannot be refuted.

Is it just to give capital punishment to all criminals / sinners? Yes or No?

What other kind of death is there? How exactly is living, death?

There isn't Scripture stating that death is eternal punishment. The problem is that you guys won't listen. Translators are not infallible. Theologians are not infallible. Everyone who translates or writes a dictionary has a theological bias. Why do you think they have teams of translators from different denominations? It's to help weed out biases.

If people would let the Scriputres speak instead of imposing their theological positions onto the Scriputres they would learn a tremendous amount about God. However, they don't. Instead they argue for whatever theological positions they've been taught. Trying to make the Scriputres fit what they believe. All we have to do is look at the practice of constantly throwing Scriputres back forth to see this. People post the ones that agree with them and ignore the others. That's why we see so many outrageous claims. The second death isn't death but rather living forever. How ridiculous is that? I mean seriously.

People don't think about how their doctrines portray God to the world. There are millions of Christians telling people if they don't accept Jesus God is going torture them in fire for eternity. How exactly does that win people over? How does that cause people to love God. Image a man telling a woman if you don't love me I'm going to beat you senseless every single day for the rest if your life. I can just see the love pouring out of her (sarcasm). Do you really think she'd love him? Or would she just act out of fear of being beaten.

How do you contrast the act of incomprehensible love that God sent His Son to die for mankind with the incomprehensible idea that on the other hand He would torture them forever.

You asked me think on justice. Let me return the request. How is it just to torture someone forever in eternal fire for a very short time of sin. No matter what the sin man lives a short time. How does justice require eternal punishment?

To answer your question, God is the source of what is just. If God says every single sin deserves capital punishment then that just. It doesn't matter what kind of games man plays to down play his sin. God alone determines what is just.

 

[KingJ]

What other kind of death is there? How exactly is living, death?

If wages of sin is 'annihilation', you believe all except God should be annihilated?

Only God is perfect and without sin Mark 10:18. Please meditate on that fact before you reply.

There isn't Scripture stating that death is eternal punishment.

There is scripture clearly stating there will be eternal punishment for those unrepentant in sin. If scripture also states the wages of sin = death. That means 1 + 1 = 2. Eternal punishment in hell = death.

The problem is that you guys won't listen. Translators are not infallible. Theologians are not infallible. Everyone who translates or writes a dictionary has a theological bias. Why do you think they have teams of translators from different denominations? It's to help weed out biases.

Would you mind starting a new thread on this. There are words and verses around the specific words 'eternal' you are not dealing with.

For example, if you read Matt 25:46 and force eternal to mean instant, when its the same word for those going to heaven. Its a heretical manipulation of scripture.

“Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life. The Greek translation uses the word ''αἰώνιον'' twice in that verse for both punishment and life.

Matthew 25:46 Interlinear: And these shall go away to punishment age-during, but the righteous to life age-during.'

biblehub.com

People don't think about how their doctrines portray God to the world.

Agreed!!!

There are millions of Christians telling people if they don't accept Jesus God is going torture them in fire for eternity. How exactly does that win people over?

It doesn't and scripture does not teach that exactly. Scripture teaches that it is unthinkable that God pervert justice and do what is evil Job 34:12.

How do you contrast the act of incomprehensible love that God sent His Son to die for mankind with the incomprehensible idea that on the other hand He would torture them forever.

You need to understand the trinity for that to make sense. God created mankind and wanted a bond with them. The bond He wants with mankind is at the deepest level.

John 15:13 Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends.

God lays His life down for us and 'expects' an equal action from us. What is a Christian and how do you become one?.

You asked me think on justice. Let me return the request. How is it just to torture someone forever in eternal fire for a very short time of sin. No matter what the sin man lives a short time. How does justice require eternal punishment?

Well based on your question it seems you agree with me that it is not just to dish out capital punishment to all. Agreed, it is not!!! Not at all!!

You and I can relax and know that all who believe this would get a rebuke from Paul. Paul clearly rebukes Christians who can't judge matters better then the unsaved in 1 Cor 6:1-9. Right now, if you steal candy from the candy store, you will not get a lethal injection. But yet some Christians believe we should, imagine that. Its 100% insanity

People who teach eternal torture are lazy in their discernment of scripture.

Fact 1 = God is 100% just Job 34:12.

Fact 2 = God punishes according to deeds Rom 2:6, Leviticus 19.

Fact 3 = God is righteous in all His ways, Psalm 145:17. Past present and future.

Fact 4 = Both Moses and Abraham were good people who interrogated God on His decision to punish mankind. They both agreed with God's decision.

Fact 5 = The only passage in the entirety of scripture that gives an actual example of what suffering in fire in the afterlife will look like is found in Luke 16. In that passage we see the rich man holding a conversation, speaking of an agonizing fire, asking for Abraham to dip a finger into water on put it in his mouth. This is nothing akin to something like a brazen bull that many insinuate hell will be like. Imagine Jesus described the rich man in a brazen bull. Everyone would have stopped listening to Him and walked away in disgust.

Fact 6 = The only passage in the entirety of scripture that provides an actual reason for why people 'weep and gnash their teeth' is in Luke 13:28. This verse speaks to separation anxiety. Unfortunately for the wicked, you have to separate them. You cannot mix repentant sinners with unrepentant. This is just a fact.

Fact 7 = God does not make mistakes like humans Num 23:19. God searches the depths of hearts and minds as only He can Jer 17:9-12 and grasps when someone is sold out to a love of what is evil Gen 15:16. So whilst I agree with you in that a good person should believe in rehabilitation, God goes one step beyond us in that He knows when someone will never ever truly hate what is evil and be able to sincerely repent. So He simply removes them from those who do, permanently.

Fact 8 = God does not hate the wicked. If we consider the fallen angels. Jesus cast them into swine. Swine drowned themselves. Jesus knew this would likely happen. Jesus honored the request of the demons and sacrificed the swine for it. Now we know from Nineveh that God loves animals. So what we see in that simple example is evidence of God loving demons more then animals. God wants to still engage with the lost.

Fact 9 = Most have very closed minds. Think in absolutes of black and white when there are shades of black. 1 Pet 4:18 makes clear the fact that there will be righteous 'barely' saved. If that's the case there are unrighteous barely not saved. Which takes us back to my original question to you. Is it just to dish out capital punishment to all sinners? venial and mortal? of course not!! If any think it is their brain is not working properly.

To answer your question, God is the source of what is just. If God says every single sin deserves capital punishment then that just. It doesn't matter what kind of games man plays to down play his sin. God alone determines what is just.

That is utter nonsense. God is 10000% percent concerned and mindful of what we think of Him. He wants us to know that He is just. To agree with His actions as being just.

He has given us and angels a knowledge of what is good and evil, a knowledge He too has Gen 3:22.

He wants us to serve Him because He ''IS'' a good God.

Your statement here infuriates me. Many make the same statement to justify eternal torture being a good thing. God 'is also' holy.....therefore He is also extremely evil. The tripe some Christians teach is beyond me. God is good because he IS good. Not because He is God. Imagine being in heaven and grasping God has an evil side to Him. Like a big 'gotcha' moment. What utter tripe. John says in 1 John 1:5 that God is light with no darkness in Him at all. Job says in job 34:12 'it is UNTHINKABLE that God would pervert justice or do what is evil''. So please, stop thinking that He will do evil in a vastly unknown future event just because you hold to a personal belief of death = annihilation.

You need to read and meditate on Gen 18:16-33.