What is 'Perfect' or 'Perfection'?

[Dave M]

Just for the Record @B-A-C you may think going to the gun range and shooting a perfect score is perfect but it is not perfection my freind shooting them all in the same whole is perfection, perhaps we have different standards of perfection?

Mark 10:18
And Jesus said to him, “Why do you call me good? No one is good except God alone.

 

[Brad Huber]

Just for the Record @B-A-C you may think going to the gun range and shooting a perfect score is perfect but it is not perfection my freind shooting them all in the same whole is perfection, perhaps we have different standards of perfection?

Mark 10:18
And Jesus said to him, “Why do you call me good? No one is good except God alone.

I loved His answer. He didnt say He wasnt good, for He was God in human form. But He stayed true to the truth and yet answered the suck-up in the way the man needed to hear.

 

[Born Again 2004]

As this is a forum to hash out ideas, to discontinue would serve no purpose.
Our differences on this topic are rooted in the scope of the perfection you address.
While I was pointing to individual points of perfection, a test score, you were pointing out a grand scale perfection.
Example...My car is perfect.
But it needs a muffler.
Even with its needs, it performs its intended duties without fail.
While it perfectly serves its purpose, other aspects of it may not be perfect in the grand scale.

We can get a perfect test score and still fail a class, so if enough "perfects" are not evident, the imperfections, in a limited scope, win out in the end.
That doesn't militate the one perfect score.

• Hebrews 8:12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
  
• Isaiah 43:25 "I, even I, am he who blots out your transgressions, for my own sake, and remembers your sins no more.
  
• Jeremiah 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbor and every man his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord.’ For they shall all know Me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them,” saith the Lord, “for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.”

The truth. These verses, and others, tell us that God will remember our unrighteousness, inequities or sins NO more! It does NOT say that we will not sin no more!!! God knows we sin but He will remember them no more or condemn us to hell for them: Romans 8:1

• I John 3:5 But you know that he appeared so that he might take away our sins. And in him is no sin.
• John 1:29 The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, "Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!

The Bible tells us time and time again, that Jesus did not cover up our sins like the Law and the "Day of Atonement" but he "took away ours sins" and that God would never look at them again. He did not cover them up from the sight of God, He took them away from the sight of God. If Jesus is in us....when God looks at us he sees the righteousness of Jesus and not our imperfect ways.

 

[At Peace]

• Hebrews 8:12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
  
• Isaiah 43:25 "I, even I, am he who blots out your transgressions, for my own sake, and remembers your sins no more.
  
• Jeremiah 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbor and every man his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord.’ For they shall all know Me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them,” saith the Lord, “for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.”

The truth. These verses, and others, tell us that God will remember our unrighteousness, inequities or sins NO more! It does NOT say that we will not sin no more!!! God knows we sin but He will remember them no more or condemn us to hell for them: Romans 8:1

Your bible must have omitted the part of Rom 8:1 that delineated between those who walk after the flesh and those who walk after the Spirit.
That is one of the differences between OT and NT.
The men who served the Law could have their sins atoned for by animal sacrifices...but then would return to their sins.
Now that we can kill the old man and be raised with Christ to walk in newness of life, reborn of His seed that cannot bear evil fruit, further sin isn't going to happen.
To imagine sins won't be seen by God is a grand deception.

• I John 3:5 But you know that he appeared so that he might take away our sins. And in him is no sin.
• John 1:29 The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, "Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!

The Bible tells us time and time again, that Jesus did not cover up our sins like the Law and the "Day of Atonement" but he "took away ours sins" and that God would never look at them again. He did not cover them up from the sight of God, He took them away from the sight of God. If Jesus is in us....when God looks at us he sees the righteousness of Jesus and not our imperfect ways.

Again, your bible must have accidentally omitted the part of 1 John that said "In Him is no sin."
As the redeemed are "IN CHRIST", there can be no sin in us either.
Sin separates men from God.

 

[At Peace]

Just for the Record @B-A-C you may think going to the gun range and shooting a perfect score is perfect but it is not perfection my freind shooting them all in the same whole is perfection, perhaps we have different standards of perfection?
Mark 10:18
And Jesus said to him, “Why do you call me good? No one is good except God alone.

You are absolutely right about "standards of perfection".
But if our standard is set by the Holy Ghost within us, won't our actions meet that standard...as long as we love God above all else and our neighbor as ourselves?
I think so.
If not, it manifests rebellion against either the first or last commandment.

 

[Born Again 2004]

I have no more to say, except your right and I am wrong....I'll get over it! I suggest you stop competing with God!

 

[At Peace]

I have no more to say, except your right and I am wrong....I'll get over it! I suggest you stop competing with God!

I'm glad you realize there is perfection on earth.
I was looking at the blue sky and feeling the cool breeze on my face this morning and was thinking it was perfect.
And please don't confuse obedience to God with competing with Him.
He has made it possible to be perfect in Christ Jesus.
And I thank Him for it.

 

[Br. Bear]

It is God that girdeth me with strength,
and maketh my way perfect.
Psalm 18:32

@At Peace

Greetings,

I certainly wasn't offended, and can see no reason for him to be either.
Is it you who is offended?
BTW, I hope your understanding of his POV is correct.
My conclusion drawn from his writing shows a flaw in his initial point.
That being, that there is nothing perfect... in spite of the perfection he achieved on a test.
This is the basis some use to never strive for the perfection Jesus commanded of us in Matt 5:48.
.

I beg to differ.
My point is to refute the notion that perfection is unachievable.
Scripture not only commands it, but shows us the OT shadow of its prior accomplishment.


I can understand the word "perfect" perfectly from the context of its use in verses of the bible.
You seem to be more interested in the interpretation of ancient hieroglyphs.

Again, I hope you weren't offended.

Thank you for your reply. And thank you for being concerned about if I was offended. No.

Regarding me being "more interested in the interpretation of ancient hieroglyphs." Not really. First, hieroglyphics are not the same as the ancient Hebrew language, Hebrew being a quite unique language in that it had an alphabet (still does) with every letter having a specific meaning, unlike English, for example. English is a language that you need to learn the words (combination by spelling often phonetically - but not always) and their meanings and how to string them together, mostly making use of abstract ideas and often with confusing double meanings or spellings with the same sound - to name a few of the difficulties in the English language. English is also a mongrel language made up from interbreeding mostly if not entirely European languages. English also has changes and evolved over time both in the written and the meaning of words.
Hebrew is fairly much the same as it was originally and is possibly a big part of the enduring of the Jewish people, at least from a secondary enquiry into their 'miraculous' existence as a race after the many and lengthy periods throughout history where they we dislodged and without a homeland or able to be in it, as a people, also being scattered and dispersed throughout the world. I am glad that Hebrew is still intact because we can still look at what was written in the Scriptures and have a direct translation without any changes from the original. From what I understand, there are no other ancient cultures and their languages that still exist so when it comes to hieroglyphics, as you wrote, it is difficult to ascertain exactly what was written in those now non-existent cultures.
The ancient Hebrew is usually given the name of pictographs or if you prefer, pictographics, not hieroglyphics. There are a few other unique things about Hebrew which are a reflection of the way they not only thought and communicated between each other and no doubt with the LORD but also in the way that they lived, which included their way of thinking - the language being an extension of that. One might say it is a living language - probably not the only one but certainly the only one that had direct communication to and with the LORD.
I would venture to say that there is a high possibility that it is through and by their ongoing relationship with the LORD (as we witness throughout the Old Testament) that characterized who they were and the language they used.
So..... yes, I am interested in ancient Hebrew and a little later I shall endeavour to share a little from it that might help us (everyone, meaning all, no matter what side of the 'argument' they are thinking and writing from) to grasp the understanding of 'perfect' from God's point of view. I say that knowing that I am not God but I do ask His guidance in my writing, praying also that whatever I write may help at least one other person to have that which is perfect, from above.

As i said, no, not really. I am not more interested.

I hear what you are saying in your reply and indeed in many of your replies. I would like to continue this discussion, if that is OK with you? (if not, do not feel obliged to answer any of the following)

Could you please tell me if there was ever a time that you were not perfect or living 'perfect'? I can answer for you if you want and you can correct me if i am wrong (please) i order to move on now rather that wait for the inevitable.
I would say there was a time that you were not. So what do we do with that time. Who takes account? And how? and.... when? Then we might ask, why?At what point in your walk did it become perfect? (please understand i am not questioning if or if not you are currently walking in perfection. Likewise i am not trying to trip you up or cast a snare. I would only ever do that when hunting and because i don't fancy eating you, there will be no snares laid!!)

The reason I ask is that while you find yourself in a place you are at peace with, others are concerned for you and about you and do not see that they will ever, this side of the coming of the Lord, be perfect and i would like to open up the understanding as much as possible for everyone, if possible, that we can better live together in our following Jesus. Perhaps it is my feeble attempt at peace making, At Peace?

Edit: the following is a line which i have inserted to mark a point in this conversation with you where I would like to engage everyone else, if they are interested, knowing also that they might already have read the above.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I would also like to invite everyone else to answer these questions about themselves. We do not have any right to answer on behalf of others nor question them, here. Of course we can but we will grow better by considering our own walk without comparison and without shooting anyone else down in the process.

From what i understand, in fact, it is they who will abase themselves or humble themselves instead of exalt themselves by any means that will ever get close to the Kingdom of God.
If one says they have achieved, well done, If many say they have, well done. If any say they are still 'getting there' well done. If any say they don't care...well, not so well done but I am more interested here in studying Scripture than studying each other. How about everyone else?


Bless you ....><>

God is my strength and power:
and He maketh my way perfect.
2Samuel 22:33

 

[At Peace]

Greetings,
Thank you for your reply. And thank you for being concerned about if I was offended. No.

Regarding me being "more interested in the interpretation of ancient hieroglyphs." Not really. First, hieroglyphics are not the same as the ancient Hebrew language, Hebrew being a quite unique language in that it had an alphabet (still does) with every letter having a specific meaning, unlike English, for example. English is a language that you need to learn the words (combination by spelling often phonetically - but not always) and their meanings and how to string them together, mostly making use of abstract ideas and often with confusing double meanings or spellings with the same sound - to name a few of the difficulties in the English language. English is also a mongrel language made up from interbreeding mostly if not entirely European languages. English also has changes and evolved over time both in the written and the meaning of words.
Hebrew is fairly much the same as it was originally and is possibly a big part of the enduring of the Jewish people, at least from a secondary enquiry into their 'miraculous' existence as a race after the many and lengthy periods throughout history where they we dislodged and without a homeland or able to be in it, as a people, also being scattered and dispersed throughout the world. I am glad that Hebrew is still intact because we can still look at what was written in the Scriptures and have a direct translation without any changes from the original. From what I understand, there are no other ancient cultures and their languages that still exist so when it comes to hieroglyphics, as you wrote, it is difficult to ascertain exactly what was written in those now non-existent cultures.
The ancient Hebrew is usually given the name of pictographs or if you prefer, pictographics, not hieroglyphics. There are a few other unique things about Hebrew which are a reflection of the way they not only thought and communicated between each other and no doubt with the LORD but also in the way that they lived, which included their way of thinking - the language being an extension of that. One might say it is a living language - probably not the only one but certainly the only one that had direct communication to and with the LORD.
I would venture to say that there is a high possibility that it is through and by their ongoing relationship with the LORD (as we witness throughout the Old Testament) that characterized who they were and the language they used.
So..... yes, I am interested in ancient Hebrew and a little later I shall endeavour to share a little from it that might help us (everyone, meaning all, no matter what side of the 'argument' they are thinking and writing from) to grasp the understanding of 'perfect' from God's point of view. I say that knowing that I am not God but I do ask His guidance in my writing, praying also that whatever I write may help at least one other person to have that which is perfect, from above.
As i said, no, not really. I am not more interested.

Thanks for the background of your interest in languages.
I believe the Holy Ghost has provided me with exactly what I require to live a Godly life, without all the background you are interested in.
I don't feel all the extra knowledge you seek after will change me/us for the better, so I will adhere to what God has already graciously provided.
More knowledge just accommodates more arguing. More things to divide folks from one another and from God.
The simplicity of Christ can get pretty complicated when more facets of minimally important things are "added to the mix".

I hear what you are saying in your reply and indeed in many of your replies. I would like to continue this discussion, if that is OK with you? (if not, do not feel obliged to answer any of the following)

I will do anything necessary to hold your rapt attention...with the hope of our mutual salvation in mind.

Could you please tell me if there was ever a time that you were not perfect or living 'perfect'? I can answer for you if you want and you can correct me if i am wrong (please) in order to move on now rather that wait for the inevitable.
I would say there was a time that you were not.

Regrettably, you are correct.

So what do we do with that time. Who takes account? And how? and.... when? Then we might ask, why?At what point in your walk did it become perfect? (please understand i am not questioning if or if not you are currently walking in perfection. Likewise i am not trying to trip you up or cast a snare. I would only ever do that when hunting and because i don't fancy eating you, there will be no snares laid!!)

Had I remained in bondage to sin, my ultimate future would have been in a lake of fire.
I would have been held accountable for my sins, as will all men.

As for "when in my walk...", sinners don't "walk with the Lord".
My walk with-obedience to God started with my "turn from" sin...in 2004.
My past sins were washed away by the blood of Christ when I was baptized in His name for the remission of my past sins.
Baptism also provided me with the death-wages of my past sins; the death I partook of with Christ. Also the burial and resurrection with Christ, to walk in newness of life.
So, I quit sinning, was washed of my past sins, and was reborn of God's seed.
Perfect.
Now it is up to me to remain in the light, and to continue walking in the Spirit instead of in the flesh.
And God has provided everything I need to do so.

The reason I ask is that while you find yourself in a place you are at peace with, others are concerned for you and about you and do not see that they will ever, this side of the coming of the Lord, be perfect and i would like to open up the understanding as much as possible for everyone, if possible, that we can better live together in our following Jesus. Perhaps it is my feeble attempt at peace making, At Peace?

What I understand from the above is that you care for everyone...who hasn't yet "come to the Lord"..If they wait till He arrives, it will be too late for repentance from sin.
There has already been one "coming of the Lord", two centuries ago.
What are "they" waiting for?
His next arrival will be with the angels and with fire.

Edit: the following is a line which i have inserted to mark a point in this conversation with you where I would like to engage everyone else, if they are interested, knowing also that they might already have read the above.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Nicely done...

I would also like to invite everyone else to answer these questions about themselves. We do not have any right to answer on behalf of others nor question them, here. Of course we can but we will grow better by considering our own walk without comparison and without shooting anyone else down in the process.

From what i understand, in fact, it is they who will abase themselves or humble themselves instead of exalt themselves by any means that will ever get close to the Kingdom of God.
If one says they have achieved, well done, If many say they have, well done. If any say they are still 'getting there' well done. If any say they don't care...well, not so well done but I am more interested here in studying Scripture than studying each other. How about everyone else?

If you wish, I can supply all the scriptures necessary to verify God's supplied "route" to perfection.

 

[amadeus2]

My point is to refute the notion that perfection is unachievable.
Scripture not only commands it, but shows us the OT shadow of its prior accomplishment.

Indeed the OT provides the types or shadows, but the NT provides the completion of it in the Head, which is Jesus. Before the Body of Christ is finished, it must likewise be also perfect as the Head is perfect. David gives good advice to his son and tells where perfection lies:

"And thou, Solomon my son, know thou the God of thy father, and serve him with a perfect heart and with a willing mind: for the LORD searcheth all hearts, and understandeth all the imaginations of the thoughts: if thou seek him, he will be found of thee; but if thou forsake him, he will cast thee off for ever." I Chron 28:9

Impossible? So many believers would say, but to me it is confirming a negative type of faith when we say a man can never get there while we are here in the corrupted and corruptible flesh. This is as I see it to call Jesus a liar. Are we not to become like Him?

"Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is." I John 3:2

Then at this some will say that that is for some time after we have died physically, but where is that in scripture? What does the scripture say?

"And they were astonished out of measure, saying among themselves, Who then can be saved?
And Jesus looking upon them saith, With men it is impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible." Mark 10:26-27

What limitation did Jesus put on God when he said, "all things are possible"? What limitation do we put on God when we deny to possibility of Him bringing us to perfection and/or sinless before the dirt is thrown over our faces? That is a negative faith:

"... According to your faith be it unto you." Matt 9:29

 

[HisFollower]

[for me anyway] when concerning matter's such as "be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect" it to say "of full age" or "mature".
When it concerns God's perfect work, that is the perfect which we think of as in perfection, knowing that God does indeed a perfect work beyond mere precision or exactness as is with men: mankind can make things precise and exact such as precise and exactly measured wings on an aircraft; but not perfect, because otherwise there would never be an accident (for example).

 

[At Peace]

[for me anyway] when concerning matter's such as "be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect" it to say "of full age" or "mature".
When it concerns God's perfect work, that is the perfect which we think of as in perfection, knowing that God does indeed a perfect work beyond mere precision or exactness as is with men: mankind can make things precise and exact such as precise and exactly measured wings on an aircraft; but not perfect, because otherwise there would never be an accident (for example).

With your initial description of perfect being "of full age" or "mature"., do you feel that God has provided the way to achieve your description...as He has for the perfection I see as freedom from sin?

 

[At Peace]

Indeed the OT provides the types or shadows, but the NT provides the completion of it in the Head, which is Jesus. Before the Body of Christ is finished, it must likewise be also perfect as the Head is perfect. David gives good advice to his son and tells where perfection lies:

"And thou, Solomon my son, know thou the God of thy father, and serve him with a perfect heart and with a willing mind: for the LORD searcheth all hearts, and understandeth all the imaginations of the thoughts: if thou seek him, he will be found of thee; but if thou forsake him, he will cast thee off for ever." I Chron 28:9

Impossible? So many believers would say, but to me it is confirming a negative type of faith when we say a man can never get there while we are here in the corrupted and corruptible flesh. This is as I see it to call Jesus a liar. Are we not to become like Him?

"Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is." I John 3:2

Then at this some will say that that is for some time after we have died physically, but where is that in scripture? What does the scripture say?

"And they were astonished out of measure, saying among themselves, Who then can be saved?
And Jesus looking upon them saith, With men it is impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible." Mark 10:26-27

What limitation did Jesus put on God when he said, "all things are possible"? What limitation do we put on God when we deny to possibility of Him bringing us to perfection and/or sinless before the dirt is thrown over our faces? That is a negative faith:

"... According to your faith be it unto you." Matt 9:29

Good post...

 

[Born Again 2004]

Then at this some will say that that is for some time after we have died physically, but where is that in scripture? What does the scripture say?

• I don't think it is sometime but instantly!
• 1 Corinthians 13:9-12
  9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part. 10 But when that which is perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away.
  11 When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child; but when I became a man, I put away childish things. 12 For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I shall know just as I also am known.

9, Says we are not perfect
10. When perfection comes, that which is imperfect vanishes....This is not being Born Again and receiving the Holy Spirit....this happens when we die physically, our imperfection in the flesh is gone; the perfection in spirit comes.,,,we are glorified in the presence of God, who is in spirit, when he perfects us.
12, We, now, we only know partially and see partially...a mirror dimly....in those days it was a polished piece of brass; hardly what we have today. The idea here is that we can't see clearly in the human state. But when we enter God's realm we will see clearly and be "face to face" with God. The Jews knew this and they were frightened of seeing God face to face. Exodus 33:20 But," he said, "you cannot see my face, for no one may see me and live."..... no one a live but, know you are in spiritual form and will see God face to face and know him as well as he knows you....now that is perfection.

Impossible? So many believers would say, but to me it is confirming a negative type of faith when we say a man can never get there while we are here in the corrupted and corruptible flesh. This is as I see it to call Jesus a liar. Are we not to become like Him?

Yes..."to become like him"...nothing says we will be like him. We are expected to try and be like him...but to be like him, until we are in God's spiritual realm, will we be in fact like him!

 

[amadeus2]

• I don't think it is sometime but instantly!
• 1 Corinthians 13:9-12
  9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part. 10 But when that which is perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away.
  11 When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child; but when I became a man, I put away childish things. 12 For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I shall know just as I also am known.

9, Says we are not perfect
10. When perfection comes, that which is imperfect vanishes....This is not being Born Again and receiving the Holy Spirit....this happens when we die physically, our imperfection in the flesh is gone; the perfection in spirit comes.,,,we are glorified in the presence of God, who is in spirit, when he perfects us.
12, We, now, we only know partially and see partially...a mirror dimly....in those days it was a polished piece of brass; hardly what we have today. The idea here is that we can't see clearly in the human state. But when we enter God's realm we will see clearly and be "face to face" with God. The Jews knew this and they were frightened of seeing God face to face. Exodus 33:20 But," he said, "you cannot see my face, for no one may see me and live."..... no one a live but, know you are in spiritual form and will see God face to face and know him as well as he knows you....now that is perfection.

Yes..."to become like him"...nothing says we will be like him. We are expected to try and be like him...but to be like him, until we are in God's spiritual realm, will we be in fact like him!

I am is simply against any presumption that overcoming and/or perfection can only be completed after our physical bodies die. That would be a presumption.

Jesus had overcome the world prior to his crucifixion:

"These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world. " John 16:33

With Christ in us why can we not overcome the world prior to our natural death as He did?

If the "new man" is already here, what is to stop us from overcoming all other than our quenching the Holy Spirit in us and following again the ways of the "old man" in us who is not yet finally and completely dead?

 

[Born Again 2004]

I am is simply against any presumption that overcoming and/or perfection can only be completed after our physical bodies die. That would be a presumption.

I am glad, I don't care for presumption...I gave you Bible verses....when perfection comes and imperfection is done away!

With Christ in us why can we not overcome the world prior to our natural death as He did?

Brother, I am sure we would agree that God never changes...in that respect : James 2:10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it. For me, maybe you would say I am presuming but, for me ,and considering the perfection we are talking about is Agape or God's perfection, this requirement in James would be 24 /7.
God looks at us and sees Jesus, not our sin "I will look at heir sin no longer. "Surely for God to consider us sinless, would be a requirement that includes being perfect as long as you live, 24/7. I agree, with God all things are possible...but I have not known any one, such as, Mother Teresa, or Billy Graham, or Martin Luther King or, if you read Romans 7, not even St. Paul was perfect!...Believer striving for perfection of course but sin yes and, not talking about what the Bible calls "deliberate sin"!

 

[Dave M]

we are flesh and spirit right now, as long as part of us is flesh I do not see how anyone can be perfect, our spirit helps us overcome the fleshly desires, but it we were perfect we would not even have the fleshy desires. We now struggle between the two and only through Jesus Christ do we have victory over the flesh only through Jesus Christ are the chains of sin broken for those born again, but as long as we are in the flesh we can not even be in the presence of God or we will die because we are all sinful by nature in the flesh.

 

[Bendito]

Very good question Mr Bear...and very good responses...to which I'll add mine...Be ye perfect...Walk in obedience and be ye, therefore, blameless.

 

[At Peace]

• I don't think it is sometime but instantly!
• 1 Corinthians 13:9-12
  9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part. 10 But when that which is perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away.
  11 When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child; but when I became a man, I put away childish things. 12 For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I shall know just as I also am known.

9, Says we are not perfect

No, it doesn't.
It refers to a lack of knowledge.
We can be without sin and still lack knowledge or the gift of prophesy.

When perfection comes, that which is imperfect vanishes....This is not being Born Again and receiving the Holy Spirit....this happens when we die physically, our imperfection in the flesh is gone; the perfection in spirit comes.,,,we are glorified in the presence of God, who is in spirit, when he perfects us.

You have mistaken "know in part" for "imperfect".
BTW, we won't be judged unworthy of eternal life for the disabilities of our vessels, so to infer imperfection because of a need for glasses or a bad knee is skirting the issue of sinless perfection.
I hope that is inadvertent.

We, now, we only know partially and see partially...a mirror dimly....in those days it was a polished piece of brass; hardly what we have today. The idea here is that we can't see clearly in the human state. But when we enter God's realm we will see clearly and be "face to face" with God. The Jews knew this and they were frightened of seeing God face to face. Exodus 33:20 But," he said, "you cannot see my face, for no one may see me and live."..... no one a live but, know you are in spiritual form and will see God face to face and know him as well as he knows you....now that is perfection.

Your POV is true, in the grander scope, but my POV is about freedom from sin-perfection.
Bad vision or lame limbs, on a perfect man, matter little.
God uses us as His temple, so it must be perfect for that use.

Yes..."to become like him"...nothing says we will be like him. We are expected to try and be like him...but to be like him, until we are in God's spiritual realm, will we be in fact like him!

I think 1 John 3:2 disagrees with you.
In case you missed it, we are commanded to "be like Him" in Matt 5:48.
The Lord doesn't give impossible assignments.

 

[At Peace]

I am glad, I don't care for presumption...I gave you Bible verses....when perfection comes and imperfection is done away!
Brother, I am sure we would agree that God never changes...in that respect : James 2:10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it. For me, maybe you would say I am presuming but, for me ,and considering the perfection we are talking about is Agape or God's perfection, this requirement in James would be 24 /7.
God looks at us and sees Jesus, not our sin "I will look at heir sin no longer. "Surely for God to consider us sinless, would be a requirement that includes being perfect as long as you live, 24/7. I agree, with God all things are possible...but I have not known any one, such as, Mother Teresa, or Billy Graham, or Martin Luther King or, if you read Romans 7, not even St. Paul was perfect!...Believer striving for perfection of course but sin yes and, not talking about what the Bible calls "deliberate sin"!

Have you ever thought about living WITHOUT sin?
That is the results of a real repentance from sin...if you are interested.