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What kind of religion Islam is?

What kind of religion Islam is?

  • Peace and love

    Votes: 7 13.0%
  • Terrorism and lies

    Votes: 47 87.0%

  • Total voters
    54
So?
That's subjective.
No.
No person can give "love" as you suggest.
Trust can be broken. They have EVERY right and are even commanded to lie to non-Muslims. If they don't it's to Hell they go according to their "god".
It's an objective fact that I trust the Muslims I work with.

There is nothing in the Quran or
Hadith that permits lying to Christians.

In Islam, telling a lie is permiited only when a person is forced to due to persecution, or to deceive an enemy in time of war.
 
While much of what you have shared is quite correct, if left 'as is' , one [ make that millions upon millions] could read what you have written and quite honestly [as much as a lost soul can muster] decide that, based on what Waggles wrote on TalkJesus, it's OK, it's actually perfectly acceptable for me to continue with the religious faith I am presently a disciple of because, as long as I have a good heart, I'll be 'saved'... I can continue being Muslim because God judges the heart!
This is what happens when people do not read carefully what another person has actually written -
"But people who have the true gospel preached to them and have the opportunity to believe unto salvation, but then refuse this saving grace will be under condemnation - Mark 16:15-16 "
Mark 16:15 And he said to them, Go into all the world, and preach the gospel to the whole creation.
16:16 Who hath believed and is baptized shall be saved; but who hath disbelieved shall be condemned.
 
Greetings Waggles,

This is what happens when people do not read carefully what another person has actually written -
"But people who have the true gospel preached to them and have the opportunity to believe unto salvation, but then refuse this saving grace will be under condemnation - Mark 16:15-16 "
Mark 16:15 And he said to them, Go into all the world, and preach the gospel to the whole creation.
16:16 Who hath believed and is baptized shall be saved; but who hath disbelieved shall be condemned.

When what happens?


Perhaps re-read your post and my reply and perhaps see that what i wrote was quite feasible. Sometimes we need to be able to read as if we are 'from the other side', meaning someone who does not have their senses attuned** to what it all actually means... someone who does not speak this strange christainese language.
[** perhaps, - have not as yet been transformed by the renewing of their minds ? ]


It is only by the Spirit giving the diverse gifts of such things that we can speak and interpret what the Scripture says.
We talk it 'naturally' and understand the terminology and the importance, etc, but one who has never tasted and seen, never received of the Spirit, has no idea for most of what is written by folks like you and me.
If you add that others might not speak in the english tongue{all that well} and/or might be reading it to someone else with 'broken english....' [you did mention Millions and millions of people but that could be in the Billions?] and then if you want to go a little deeper, add the dimensions of the fact that the english we speak is a rendition of the original languages that Scripture were written in ...
[People of the world have many languages, heaven has only one! ]


If you were into IT, for example and went to an old peoples home and began telling them all about the workings of software, coding, binaries and stacks, (for example) they wouldn't have a clue about you or what you were speaking about, even if you fully understood and figured you presented it well enough. Next time you cold run them through motherboards and different architechture for running network containers,,,? in the cloud will be their thoughts about it all!!

We are meant to be a little 'iron sharpening iron' sort of fellowship, not jumping to conclusions.

Perhaps I have [jumped to conclusion] and what you wrote was only an observation for the general discussion? Not all that perspicacious of me, if so.
Perhaps I have totally mis-understood you and you were not directing the opening words of your reply to me in response to my post to you?
If so, please forgive me Waggles.
See how it goes?

Re-read perhaps with humble heart and see if perchance i might have made a point, even if only a little one, please.


Bless you ....><>
 
Looks like I'll have to scrub that bit out of my Bible...
On second look, make that, those bits.
I know who you're talking about and therefore your statement makes no sense.
None of US can love that way. Why do you people always make the poorest arguments in this?
 
It's an objective fact that I trust the Muslims I work with.

There is nothing in the Quran or
Hadith that permits lying to Christians.

In Islam, telling a lie is permiited only when a person is forced to due to persecution, or to deceive an enemy in time of war.
Trust who you want. They are not to be trusted.
Your 2nd....is a flat out LIE and if you heard if from them and believed it, it's ALL on you.
Your last....making excuses for breaking the first 4 commandments.
Nothing in the Bible or by God suggests we should or "must" or "respect" any other religion.
If you're a Christian you can NOT support them or what they believe.
 
Trust who you want. They are not to be trusted.
Your 2nd....is a flat out LIE and if you heard if from them and believed it, it's ALL on you.
Your last....making excuses for breaking the first 4 commandments.
Nothing in the Bible or by God suggests we should or "must" or "respect" any other religion.
If you're a Christian you can NOT support them or what they believe.
You accuse me of lying. Please back it up.

Where does either the Quran or the Hadith permit lying to Christians other than deception in warfare or to escape persecuction? Surah and Ayah reference would be very helpful.
 
one [ make that millions upon millions] could read what you have written and quite honestly [as much as a lost soul can muster] decide that, based on what Waggles wrote on TalkJesus, it's OK, it's actually perfectly acceptable for me to continue with the religious faith I am presently a disciple of because, as long as I have a good heart, I'll be 'saved'.

He does cross a line there. There seems to be 3 thoughts in Christianity. No good deeds at all required, faith only. Some good deeds required along with your faith. Nothing but good deeds, even if you have no faith.
Only one of these is true.

People will be judged by their works not by their religion.

A half truth. People will be judged by their works, true.

Rev 20:12; And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds.
Rev 20:13; And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them; and they were judged, every one of them according to their deeds.

2Cor 5:10; For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may be recompensed for his deeds in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.

Both.. good AND bad.

Matt 16:27; "For the Son of Man is going to come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and WILL THEN REPAY EVERY MAN ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS.

Rom 2:5; But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God,
Rom 2:6; who WILL RENDER TO EACH PERSON ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS:

John 5:28; "Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice,
John 5:29; and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.


Admittedly none of these verses say anything about your faith. However, there are other verses that do.

Jas 2:19; You believe that God is one. You do well; the demons also believe, and shudder.

John 14:6; Jesus *said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.

Jesus is the way. The ONLY way. There is no other way at all. If I give you directions to my house, or if you look it up on Google maps, there is a "way" to get to my house.
Now, I suppose you could say "I don't want to go that way, I want to go my own way". .. and you can do that, but good luck getting to my house.

Acts 4:12; "And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved."

I can do good works all day long, but without Jesus it means nothing. But no one is sinless without Jesus.

Rom 3:23; for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

John 8:24; "Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for unless you believe that I am He, you will die in your sins."
John 10:9; "I am the door; if anyone enters through Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture.

Some people take verse like this...
Rom 3:20; because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin.

.. and they take it to mean, "don't do any good deeds". But that's not what it's saying. It's saying good works alone won't justify you "in His sight".

Rom 3:27; Where then is boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? Of works? No, but by a law of faith.

.. faith is required! Works alone don't save you.

Jas 2:24; You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.
 
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Not true - unscriptural
God understands the spiritual mayhem, treachery and lies instigated by gods who were given the responsibility to be Watchers over the nations.
There will be a judgement and reckoning on Jesuits and Jihadis who used the sword to slay people in the name of religion.
People will be judged by their works not by their religion.
But people who have the true gospel preached to them and have the opportunity to believe unto salvation, but then refuse this saving grace will be under condemnation - Mark 16:15-16
Millions and millions of people from infants to the aged have never really had the chance to embrace the gospel of salvation and Jesus knows this.
God will have mercy on whom he will give mercy to - this is what Golgotha and the resurrection are for - not just some Christians but for the whole world - 1John 2:2

Rev 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat thereon, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and no place was found for them.
12 And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne; and booklets were opened: and another booklet was opened, which is that of life: and the dead were judged out of the things written in the booklets,
according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead that were in it; and death and Hades gave up the dead in them: and they were judged each according to their works.
14 And death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.
15 And if any was not found written in the book of life, he was cast into the lake of fire. [this verse alone clearly implies that names are found written in the books of life]

There is a first resurrection for the Spirit-filled ekklesia - and there is a second resurrection for all other human beings from the first creation to the last day of this age.
God will deal with the hunter-gathers of the stone age to the i phone addicted techno peoples of today > according to their works.
Many will be cast into the lake of fire but also many will not.
Not scriptural - Acts 4:10-12
 
I know who you're talking about and therefore your statement makes no sense.
None of US can love that way. Why do you people always make the poorest arguments in this?

Greetings @MedicBravo

you lost me on that.

may you have and know God's love and His Peace in believing

Jesus is Lord


Bless you ....><>
 
Hello @MedicBravo

You said my statement that neither the Quran nor the Hadith permit lying to Christians is untrue.
Trust who you want. They are not to be trusted.
Your 2nd....is a flat out LIE and if you heard if from them and believed it, it's ALL on you.
I asked you to tell where these writings say it's permissible to lie to Christians. You haven't replied yet.
 
Hello @MedicBravo

You said my statement that neither the Quran nor the Hadith permit lying to Christians is untrue.

I asked you to tell where these writings say it's permissible to lie to Christians. You haven't replied yet.
They can and they do. It's an integral part of that cult.
I asked if you were a Christian and you haven't responded. If you are even one a basic level you can NOT believe in and support those made-up religions and cults b/c you won't wanna be seen as "mean" by the world while Muslims kill Christians every day.
If it were a peaceful one the rest would've put a stop to that long ago.
 
They can and they do. It's an integral part of that cult.
I asked if you were a Christian and you haven't responded. If you are even one a basic level you can NOT believe in and support those made-up religions and cults b/c you won't wanna be seen as "mean" by the world while Muslims kill Christians every day.
If it were a peaceful one the rest would've put a stop to that long ago.
Ok. I'll take that to mean that you don't know of any place in the Quran or Hadith that permits lying to Christians.
 
Ok. I'll take that to mean that you don't know of any place in the Quran or Hadith that permits lying to Christians.
That's where you're wrong and again showing preference and "reverence" to another "religion" cult and "god". Pretty sure that's breaking commandments 1-4.
Here's a suggestion but I don't think you'll do it.
There's a book: "The Politically Incorrect Guide to Islam (and the Crusades)" Paperback – August 1, 2005
Written by Christians, EX-Muslims, and Academics who know far more than you, I, and a majority of Christians and Muslims
I know you're type and I have yet over hundreds of conversations for any of that group to learn better.
 
That's where you're wrong and again showing preference and "reverence" to another "religion" cult and "god". Pretty sure that's breaking commandments 1-4.
Here's a suggestion but I don't think you'll do it.
There's a book: "The Politically Incorrect Guide to Islam (and the Crusades)" Paperback – August 1, 2005
Written by Christians, EX-Muslims, and Academics who know far more than you, I, and a majority of Christians and Muslims
I know you're type and I have yet over hundreds of conversations for any of that group to learn better.
I found the Politically Incorrect Guide to Islam. It addresses the issue on p90.

It records the same two exemptions I mentioned earlier - lies as part of warfare, and lying about faith when persecuted. Telling lies to Christians doesn't feature. I've copied the relevant passage below for reference.



### Lying: It's wrong—except when it isn't
Muhammad minced no words about the necessity of telling the truth: "It is obligatory for you to tell the truth, for truth leads to virtue and virtue leads to Paradise, and the man who continues to speak the truth and endeavors to tell the truth is eventually recorde d as truthful with Allah, and beware of telling of a lie for telling of a lie leads to obscenity and obscenity leads to Hell-Fire, and the person who keeps telling lies and endeavors to tell a lie is recorded as a liar with Allah."'

However, as with so many other Islamic principles, this is largely a Matter between believers. When it comes to unbelievers— particularly those who are at war with Musli ms—Muhammad enunciated a quite different principle: "War is deceit." Specifically, he taught that lying was permissible in battle. Thus were born two enduring Islamic principles: the permissibility of political assassination for the honor of the Prophet and his relig ion and an allow ance for the practice of deception in wartime. The doctrines of religious deception (taqiyya and kitman) are most often identifi ed with Shi'ite Islam and are ostensibly rejected by Sunnis (over 85 percent of Muslims worldwide) because they were sanctioned by the Prophet. However, they can still he found in traditions that Sunni Muslims consider most reliable.

Also, religious deception (practiced on hapless unbeli evers) is taught by the Qur 'an its elf , tel lin g Mus lim s: "Let not the bel iev ers tak e for friends or help ers unbelievers rather than believers . If any do that , in nothing will there be help from Allah; except by way of precautio n, that ye may guard yourselves from them" (Qur'an 3:28). In other words, don't make friends with unbelievers except to "guard yourselves from them: Pretend to be their friends so that you can strengthen yourself against them.

The distinguished Qu'ra nic commentator Ibn Kat hir explains that, in this verse, "Allah prohibited His believing servants from becoming suppor ters of the disbel iever s, or to take them as comrad es with whom they develop friendships, rather than the believers," However, exempted from this rule were "those believe rs who in some areas or times fear for their safety from the disbeli evers. In this case, such believe rs are allowed to show friendship to the disbelievers outwardly, but never inwardly, When Shi'ite Muslims were persecuted by Sunnis, they developed the doctrine of taqi yya, or conc ealm ent: They could lie about what they believed, denyi ng aspe cts of their faith that were offensive to Sunnis.

This practice is sanction ed by the Qur'an warn ing Muslims that those who forsake Islam will be consigned to Hell—except those forced to do so, but who remain true Muslims inwardly: "Any one who, after accepting faith in Allah, utters unbelief—except under compulsion, his heart remaining firm in faith—but such as open their breast to unbelief , on them is wrath from Allah. and theirs will be a dreadful penalty"
 
You still haven't answered if you're a Christian or not but by your actions with your "Muslim friends" and these responses proves that the likelihood you are is very low.
Your nitpicking as they usually do.
 
You still haven't answered if you're a Christian or not but by your actions with your "Muslim friends" and these responses proves that the likelihood you are is very low.
Your nitpicking as they usually do.
I'm not going to be side tracked by ad hominem distractions. I'm questioning your claim that in Muslim teaching it's permissable to lie to Christians. So far you've offered nothing to back it up.
 
You've proven you're not a Christian and that isn't name-calling. Learn the difference.
It's my claim it is a fact from their rag of a book. History will prove you wrong regarding Muslims and Islam every time.
Quran (3:28) - This verse instructs believers not to take those outside the faith as friends, unless it is to "guard themselves" against danger, meaning that there are times when a Muslim may appear friendly to non-Muslims, even though they should not feel friendly.
Quran (40:28) - A man is introduced as a believer, but one who had to "hide his faith" among those who are not believers.
Flight 93 by itself is more proof that Islam and Muslims are not good for this world in its entirety.
I could go on but I know your type. Again, I ask if you're a Christian but this cements your status.
 
Those paasages don't permit lying to Christians.

It's important to get these things right. If we believe untrue things about a group of people, it hugely hinders our gospel witness.
 
Whatever.
Any Muslim who leaves Islam is killed and very few of them have managed to escape that.
Yes, they do. It permits lying to ANYONE if it increases and furthers Islam.
God is the Author of Truth. Satan is the deceiver. Sad you can't see it.
There are no Muslims in Heaven and there will only be Christians after Jesus comes back.
No in-betweeners. No Muslims. No Buddhists.
He said it Himself: I am The Way, The Truth, and The Life not many ways, many truths, and many lives.
 
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