What to expect in hell
- Thread starter KingJ
- Start date
Jonathan_Gale
Active
No such thing in the bible. Only the old and the new.
Jonathan_Gale
Active
In Rev. 21:1-2 there's just the first heaven (and earth) passing away and the new heaven (and earth) that is New Jerusalem, where's the third?
Beetow
Active
In the beginning; humanity was created with a conscience patterned after its
maker's conscience.
"And God said: Let us make man in our image, after our likeness . . So God created
man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female
created he them." (Gen 1:26-27)
Then came the forbidden fruit incident, wherein humanity's conscience lost its
divine quality and became humanistic.
Then the Lord God said: Behold, the man has become like one of us, knowing good
and evil. (Gen 3:22)
I think most folks would agree that monsters like Kim Jong-Un, Xi Jinping, Robert
Mugabe, Al Capone, drug cartel kingpins, human traffickers, and Joseph Stalin
belong in Hell; but why are decent folk down there?
Well; obviously humanity's moral compass points to a different north than their
maker's, viz: sometimes what's justifiable in humanity's reasoning isn't justifiable
at all to God; and the bar is set pretty high. (Rom 3:23)
There's a rather humorous scene in Dante's Inferno where these two guys who
knew each other in life are quarreling over who deserves Hell more than the other;
which is pretty silly when it's considered that both are in the same place and on the
same level.
I rather suspect that quite a few folks sincerely believe God has made a big mistake
sending them down there. In their judicious estimation; others deserve it for sure,
but not them.
_
maker's conscience.
"And God said: Let us make man in our image, after our likeness . . So God created
man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female
created he them." (Gen 1:26-27)
Then came the forbidden fruit incident, wherein humanity's conscience lost its
divine quality and became humanistic.
Then the Lord God said: Behold, the man has become like one of us, knowing good
and evil. (Gen 3:22)
I think most folks would agree that monsters like Kim Jong-Un, Xi Jinping, Robert
Mugabe, Al Capone, drug cartel kingpins, human traffickers, and Joseph Stalin
belong in Hell; but why are decent folk down there?
Well; obviously humanity's moral compass points to a different north than their
maker's, viz: sometimes what's justifiable in humanity's reasoning isn't justifiable
at all to God; and the bar is set pretty high. (Rom 3:23)
There's a rather humorous scene in Dante's Inferno where these two guys who
knew each other in life are quarreling over who deserves Hell more than the other;
which is pretty silly when it's considered that both are in the same place and on the
same level.
I rather suspect that quite a few folks sincerely believe God has made a big mistake
sending them down there. In their judicious estimation; others deserve it for sure,
but not them.
_
Take a look at 2 Corinthians 12: 2-4
Jonathan_Gale
Active
A simple search would tell you that “third heaven” is a division of current heaven where God dwells in.
B-A-C
Loyal
New is new, not passed away. A new house is a still a house. A new car is still a car. A new heaven is still heaven. Only the "old" heaven passed away.
Jonathan_Gale
Active
Yes, replaced by the new. When did I suggest that the new one passes away as well?
Beetow
Active
FAQ: Was Adam's disobedience a Hell-worthy transgression?
REPLY: No.
According to Gen 2:17 it was a death-worthy transgression rather than Hell-worthy.
In other words; the proper penalty for Adam's mistake was simply his loss of
immortality; and of course loss of access to the tree of life too. (Gen 3:22-24)
_
REPLY: No.
According to Gen 2:17 it was a death-worthy transgression rather than Hell-worthy.
In other words; the proper penalty for Adam's mistake was simply his loss of
immortality; and of course loss of access to the tree of life too. (Gen 3:22-24)
_
B-A-C
Loyal
Rom 5:17; For if by the transgression of the one, death reigned through the one, much more those who receive the abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.
Rom 5:18; So then as through one transgression there resulted condemnation to all men, even so through one act of righteousness there resulted justification of life to all men.
Rom 5:19; For as through the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, even so through the obedience of the One the many will be made righteous.
Isa 59:2; But your iniquities have made a separation between you and your God, And your sins have hidden His face from you so that He does not hear.
Jonathan_Gale
Active
Honestly, I don’t even know what we’re commenting on. Why can’t we just stick to what the Bible says.
Beetow
Active
• Eph 2:2-3 . . As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, in which
you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the
kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. All
of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our sinful nature
and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature objects of
wrath.
It's believed by a pretty large percentage of modern Christians that the sinful nature
spoken of in that Ephesians passage is propagated by men. Oh? From whence did Eve
get it?
She was already alive and fully constructed with material taken from Adam's body
prior to the forbidden fruit incident. Since himself tasted the fruit after his wife was
already in existence; then it was impossible for Adam to pass the fallen nature to
her by means of his body.
In the past, I was sure that the chemistry of the forbidden fruit had something to
do with the first couple's altered moral perception; but now I seriously doubt it
because Eve was the first to eat the fruit, and when she did, nothing happened. She
remained just as shameless in the buff as before. It wasn't till Adam tasted the fruit
that she began to feel exposed; so I'm pretty sure that the underlying cause is far
more serious than the chemistry of that fruit.
If Eve's fallen condition wasn't due to the fruit, nor due to Adam's body, then what?
Well; obviously the Serpent did it to them, a.k.a. the Devil (Rev 20:2)
The ruler of the kingdom of the air-- i.e. the spirit world --has the power of death
(Heb 2:14) and the ability to tamper with the human body and the human mind in
ways not easily detected; e.g. Luke 13:16, Mark 5:1-5, and Eph 2:2.
The Serpent was apparently all set and ready to wield his power the moment that
Adam crossed the line and ate that fruit. It amazes me how quickly it takes effect.
Not long after Adam tasted the fruit, he and his wife both immediately set to work
cobbling together some rudimentary aprons to cover up their pelvic areas.
I really have to hand it to the Serpent; he's very good at shifting blame away from
himself. For quite a few years now it's been traditional to believe biological fathers
propagate the fallen nature; when it's been the Serpent's handiwork all along.
How he has managed to deceive so many people for so long a time I don't know,
but what's really ironic about it is that there are people behind pulpits, and chairing
whole Sunday school departments, working with him as a sort of propaganda
machine of unsuspecting accomplices.
FAQ: Why wasn't the woman effected by the Serpent's power when she tasted the
forbidden fruit?
REPLY: It was apparently God's decision that if sin and death were to come into the
world, it would come via a lone male's actions just as righteous and life would be
made available to world via a lone male's actions. (Rom 5:12-21)
FAQ: When does the Serpent go to work on people. . . in the womb or out of the
womb?
REPLY: Adam and his wife demonstrate that it can be done on adults, but I'm
guessing that for most of us it's in the womb; and if not in the womb, then certainly
no later than when we're born. (Ps 51:5 & Ps 58:3)
_
you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the
kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. All
of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our sinful nature
and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature objects of
wrath.
It's believed by a pretty large percentage of modern Christians that the sinful nature
spoken of in that Ephesians passage is propagated by men. Oh? From whence did Eve
get it?
She was already alive and fully constructed with material taken from Adam's body
prior to the forbidden fruit incident. Since himself tasted the fruit after his wife was
already in existence; then it was impossible for Adam to pass the fallen nature to
her by means of his body.
In the past, I was sure that the chemistry of the forbidden fruit had something to
do with the first couple's altered moral perception; but now I seriously doubt it
because Eve was the first to eat the fruit, and when she did, nothing happened. She
remained just as shameless in the buff as before. It wasn't till Adam tasted the fruit
that she began to feel exposed; so I'm pretty sure that the underlying cause is far
more serious than the chemistry of that fruit.
If Eve's fallen condition wasn't due to the fruit, nor due to Adam's body, then what?
Well; obviously the Serpent did it to them, a.k.a. the Devil (Rev 20:2)
The ruler of the kingdom of the air-- i.e. the spirit world --has the power of death
(Heb 2:14) and the ability to tamper with the human body and the human mind in
ways not easily detected; e.g. Luke 13:16, Mark 5:1-5, and Eph 2:2.
The Serpent was apparently all set and ready to wield his power the moment that
Adam crossed the line and ate that fruit. It amazes me how quickly it takes effect.
Not long after Adam tasted the fruit, he and his wife both immediately set to work
cobbling together some rudimentary aprons to cover up their pelvic areas.
I really have to hand it to the Serpent; he's very good at shifting blame away from
himself. For quite a few years now it's been traditional to believe biological fathers
propagate the fallen nature; when it's been the Serpent's handiwork all along.
How he has managed to deceive so many people for so long a time I don't know,
but what's really ironic about it is that there are people behind pulpits, and chairing
whole Sunday school departments, working with him as a sort of propaganda
machine of unsuspecting accomplices.
FAQ: Why wasn't the woman effected by the Serpent's power when she tasted the
forbidden fruit?
REPLY: It was apparently God's decision that if sin and death were to come into the
world, it would come via a lone male's actions just as righteous and life would be
made available to world via a lone male's actions. (Rom 5:12-21)
FAQ: When does the Serpent go to work on people. . . in the womb or out of the
womb?
REPLY: Adam and his wife demonstrate that it can be done on adults, but I'm
guessing that for most of us it's in the womb; and if not in the womb, then certainly
no later than when we're born. (Ps 51:5 & Ps 58:3)
_
Beetow
Active
Consider a Jewish man who has undergone circumcision the eighth day as required,
and successfully completed Bar Mitzvah. From that point on he is obligated to
comply with the covenant that Moses' people agreed upon with God on oath per
Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy.
Now supposing that same Jewish man begins to have second thoughts about the
covenant and thinks maybe he would like to try something else. Well; he is not at
liberty to just up and walk away from the covenant; no, not when he is very likely
indebted to it via one or more of the curses listed at Lev 26:14 39, Deut 27:15-26,
and Deut 28:15-68. Those curses have to be satisfied first before he can even
surmise himself free to transfer his affections to another religion. However; if that
man would like; Christ can do it all for him.
• Isa 53:6 . .We all, like sheep, have gone astray, each of us has turned to his own
way; and The Lord has laid on him the iniquity of us all.
_
and successfully completed Bar Mitzvah. From that point on he is obligated to
comply with the covenant that Moses' people agreed upon with God on oath per
Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy.
Now supposing that same Jewish man begins to have second thoughts about the
covenant and thinks maybe he would like to try something else. Well; he is not at
liberty to just up and walk away from the covenant; no, not when he is very likely
indebted to it via one or more of the curses listed at Lev 26:14 39, Deut 27:15-26,
and Deut 28:15-68. Those curses have to be satisfied first before he can even
surmise himself free to transfer his affections to another religion. However; if that
man would like; Christ can do it all for him.
• Isa 53:6 . .We all, like sheep, have gone astray, each of us has turned to his own
way; and The Lord has laid on him the iniquity of us all.
_
Jonathan_Gale
Active
Do you think he actually wanted to taste it out of his own free will, or did he cave in to Eve's pleading and taste it?