Why do so many Christians support abortion, gay lifestyles, etc.,?

[Rhema]

so Jesus said to pay taxes

No he didn't.
(Read it very carefully...)

He and everyone else knew that nothing in Zion was Caesar's. The promised land was given to God's people.

Jesus' answer was a real poke in the eye to the evidentiary lack of faith of the Jew.

Rhema

Jesus paid taxes to Rome (even had Peter get a coin out of a fishes mouth)

Now that's just blatantly wrong. I would encourage you to review the facts again. (Strongly encourage you to review the texts.)

The coin was to pay the membership fee to the Temple. Even today, for a Jew to participate in a synagogue, they must pay a membership fee.

 

[K9Buckeye]

Ahh well, so much for this verse:

And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power/authority is given unto me in heaven and in earth.(Matthew 28:18 KJV)

That verse does not refute this verse:


1 John 5:19

English Standard Version


19 We know that we are from God, and the whole world lies in the power of the evil one.

 

[K9Buckeye]

No he didn't.
(Read it very carefully...)

His message was certainly inferred by those who heard it that Jesus was telling people to pay their taxes. Are you saying that message was not Jesus' intent? And if not, can you elaborate a little about what you believe Jesus was truly saying? Thanks.

 

[Rhema]

...... yes we ALL fall so far short of Gods Commandments of Love, Compassion and Justice that ALL of us are in dire need of his mercy and forgiveness.

And I'm going to take the police powers of the Government and whack you over the head with them and MAKE you conform to the Love, Compassion and Justice that I think are God's way - taking your money by distraint to show mercy and to help the people I think deserve it.

(Something like that ?)

Rhema

- Guess I'm a bit edgy tonight.

 

[MrBear]

And I'm going to take the police powers of the Government and whack you over the head with them and MAKE you conform to the Love, Compassion and Justice that I think are God's way - taking your money by distraint to show mercy and to help the people I think deserve it.

(Something like that ?)

Rhema

- Guess I'm a bit edgy tonight.

Yes

 

[K9Buckeye]

Should Christians use the power of Government to impose their moral agenda, lording it over others. Rhema

That's a good question. I've often advocated that we Christians should NOT try to block government from recognizing same-sex marriage. I've said "Let seculars be secular". Most Christians disagree with me.

 

[K9Buckeye]

And I'm going to take the police powers of the Government and whack you over the head with them and MAKE you conform to the Love, Compassion and Justice that I think are God's way - taking your money by distraint to show mercy and to help the people I think deserve it.

I take it that you identify as a political conservative. Is that accurate?

 

[MrBear]

I'm currently on a 6-month suspension from another Christian forum for confronting a Christian that supports abortion for any reason. That prompted me to do a little searching and I discovered that, per that poll, nearly HALF of Catholics and 1/3 of Protestants support abortion for any reason. And when I posted my question in the OP, I was a bit gunshy that I would be attacked by other Christians for the question.

No brother I’m not attacking at all
Infact looking at that site more carefully I see it’s not just Christians on the poll but many different religions and yes that could sway the poll in a certain way but I’m sure (at least I would hope) Christians wouldn’t agree we came from monkeys or are supporting abortions
At least I know I myself don’t
Shalom

 

[Rhema]

That verse does not refute this verse:


1 John 5:19

English Standard Version


19 We know that we are from God, and the whole world lies in the power of the evil one.

Simply stated, your verse is mistranslated. 1 John 5:19 actually says this:

οιδαμεν οτι εκ του θεου εσμεν και ο κοσμος ολος εν τω πονηρω κειται​

So that tells me just how "good" the ESV is...

we have known that of God we are, and the whole world in the evil doth lie;​

(1 John 5:19 YLT)​

​

We know that we are of God and the whole world is seated in wickedness.​

(1 John 5:19 DRB)​

​

And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.​

(1 John 5:19 KJV)​

Of course the whole world lieth in wickedness. We're supposed to undo that.

For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.​

(1 John 3:8 KJV)​

How we doin' so far?

Rhema

 

[K9Buckeye]

No brother I’m not attacking at all

I know you're not. I'm just saying that, after my experience on the other forum, I was half-expecting for some here to attack me because they believe that abortion is a woman's "right".

 

[K9Buckeye]

How we doin' so far?

The ESV is no good? Which Bible do you recommend?

Are you saying that Satan is not the leader of this world? What are you saying, please?

 

[PloughBoy]

I'm currently on a 6-month suspension from another Christian forum for confronting a Christian that supports abortion for any reason. That prompted me to do a little searching and I discovered that, per that poll, nearly HALF of Catholics and 1/3 of Protestants support abortion for any reason. And when I posted my question in the OP, I was a bit gunshy that I would be attacked by other Christians for the question.

You should n't be surprise. There are over 2.6 Billion confessing christians throughout the world and the united States have their own personal Brand of Christianity that is so unique to its own demographics that is spreading throughout the world. And will continue to spread even into The "Millennium" Kingdom and there will be some outside of the 12 gates. until the 1000 years are up. Then they will gather around The City. with Then gathering of their ARMIES.

There are events still to come. There are no dull moments with our GOD. He has much excitements for us. For we are Living still in "The Beginning". at the tip of "Eternity". "Behold I make everything Brand New. Heaven is old. it is Ancient.

 

[Rhema]

His message was certainly inferred by those who heard it that Jesus was telling people to pay their taxes.

No, that's your inference that the audience inferred Jesus said pay taxes. He actually said don't pay taxes to Caesar, but in a very shrewd manner that couldn't be interpreted as overt insurrection.

The promised land was given to the people of God, was it not? And the audience knew quite well that Rome occupied because the Hebrews lacked faith that God would protect and preserve their land.

That's why Jesus was asked that question to begin with, because everybody knew that Zion was God's and NOT Caesar's. Jesus' enemies wanted to use that truth against Him. The answer was a poke in the eye. Rome occupied because the Jew lacked faith that God would protect and preserve Zion for His people, and Jesus scolded them for that.

Rhema

 

[Rhema]

Yes

The we'll start with everything you own. Sell it and give it to me.

Rhema

 

[K9Buckeye]

No, that's your inference that the audience inferred Jesus said pay taxes. He actually said don't pay taxes to Caesar, but in a very shrewd manner that couldn't be interpreted as overt insurrection.

Apparently, 99.99% of Christians also "inferred" incorrectly. I've never met a Christian that shares your interpretation. If what you're saying is accurate, then Jesus was a terrible communicator.

 

[Rhema]

That's a good question.

Thank you. I do my best.

I've often advocated that we Christians should NOT try to block government from recognizing same-sex marriage. I've said "Let seculars be secular". Most Christians disagree with me.

I'm not most Christians.

We ought to be using the Power of the Holy Ghost, not the Power of secular government - which itself is based in the fear of violence. Government can't do a thing without money, so by the force of distraint, they take yours, whether directly by taxation, or indirectly through inflation (printing money). At least in the US, we are supposed to have representative authority to guide the disbursement of such monies. But evil people know how to work together. Good people tend to be individualists, and then one by one they leave the "battlefield".

I take it that you identify as a political conservative. Is that accurate?

And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.​

(John 8:23 KJV)​

K9... I'm not sure I have the vocabulary to answer that question. I'm a Regent of Christ, saving the world one person at a time. It's likely that I am so far conservative that I've flipped the Atari edge and would be seen as a stark raving liberal. I just wouldn't steal your money to achieve my agenda.

The ESV is no good?

Well... when I said "how we doin' so far" I meant how successful are we at undoing the works of the devil...

A long time ago, as a teen, I bought this Bible -

Interlinear KJV-NIV Parallel New Testament in Greek and English by Alfred Marshall

Buy Interlinear KJV-NIV Parallel New Testament in Greek and English by Alfred Marshall ISBN 1991 edition Interlinear KJV-NIV Parallel New Testament in Greek and English Alfred Marshall

www.americanbookwarehouse.com

Over the next few years the problems with the NIV and the KJV became apparent when compared to Marshal's interlinear, so I decided to learn to read Greek for myself.

Which Bible do you recommend?

At eighteen bucks, I'd recommend that in a heartbeat. I have only two or three areas of disagreement with Marshall.

Right now, I use esword dot net, with the Greek modules loaded, and I post links to the Liddell Scott Lexicon, although the new Cambridge Greek Lexicon is sitting right here on my desk.

Amazon.com

Are you saying that Satan is not the leader of this world?

I'm saying what Jesus said... (can't go wrong with that, eh?)

And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power/authority is given unto me in heaven and in earth.​

(Matthew 28:18 KJV)​

I just don't know why Christians refuse to believe it.

What are you saying, please?

Jesus is the ruler of this world, and He gave specific instructions to His disciples -

And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power/authority (ἐξουσία - LINK) is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.​

(Matthew 28:18-20 KJV)​

Sorry if I've created any confusion.

Kindly,
Rhema

 

[MrBear]

The we'll start with everything you own. Sell it and give it to me.

Rhema

Let me grab a pole and get a fish coin
btw that was for a temple tax
Matthew 17:27
However, we don’t want to offend them, so go down to the lake and throw in a line. Open the mouth of the first fish you catch, and you will find a large silver coin. Take itand pay the TAX for both of us.” ( to be fair some translations don’t say tax )
But I also misquoted and said the tax was for Rome
Shalom

 

[Rhema]

Apparently, 99.99% of Christians also "inferred" incorrectly. I've never met a Christian that shares your interpretation. If what you're saying is accurate, then Jesus was a terrible communicator.

I disagree. Jesus knew EXACTLY what his Hebrew brethren would understand His shrewd comment to mean. It was a masterful reply. ( I can even hear the gnashing of teeth, saying to not pay taxes by saying "render to Caesar". K9... nothing is Caesar's. EVERYTHING is God's. ... No?

I've found that many misunderstandings come from reading a text without consideration of context or audience or purpose.

But... I wouldn't post anything inaccurate. (That's why I'm so infuriating. )

Rhema

As an example, consider this verse:

Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.​

(Matthew 16:24 KJV)​

Jesus' comment was well before his crucifixion, so just what would his disciples understand "take up your cross" to mean? What were people crucified for? Insurrection. Jesus was saying, "Join the rebellion."

 

[Rhema]

Let me grab a pole and get a fish coin
btw that was for a temple tax

Yes, the Temple charged a special membership fee or dues that one needed to pay to enter the Temple. This is still done today. You must pay a membership fee to worship at a Synagogue.

But let's not forget the symbolic purpose of the fish, or as @Br. Bear would say.... ><>

Rhema

And when they were come to Capernaum, they that received tribute (δίδραχμον - LINK ) came to Peter, and said, Doth not your master pay δίδραχμον ?​

(Matthew 17:24 KJV)​

So the word "tax"? ... not such a good selection. Notice they didn't have the guts to ask Jesus himself.

 

[MrBear]

Notice they didn't have the GUTS to ask Jesus himself.

A fish joke ?
And I thought you were grumpy tonight
Shalom
Hey you guys pray for me I’m getting ready to hit the bed