Why do so many Christians support abortion, gay lifestyles, etc.,?

[Gregoryp]

If your trying to change the world yourself, dont bother. The Lord our God has sent a great deception and left man to his own devices. No amount of interference on your behalf is going to stop that. Only when Jesus returns and sits on his throne her in the world will it change for the better. He doesnt need man to do that. I like you quote scripture like some sort of oracle, but then you forget the command to remove yourselves from the world and its desires. Funny that. No wonder many are removing themselves from organised religions and forums such as this.

 

[Br. Bear]

No wonder many are removing themselves from... forums such as this.

Greetings Gregoryp,

do you have a problem with the forums?
If so, please contact the Administrator.


Bless you ....><>

 

[Br. Bear]

Greetings all,

please remember the thread is:

Why do so many Christians support abortion, gay lifestyles, etc.,?

Post in peace


Bless you ....><>

 

[Br. Bear]

Be that as it may, to regard some nations as inherently on the side of light and others needing "a boulder in their path to slow down the darkness", is i believe a total misunderstanding of Christs teachings, all nations, governments are in the hands of the Devil, there is no light or dark, just individuals within those nations trying to do their best to bring the Light of Christs Love and Compassion into the Darkness.

CHRIST DID NOT TEACH THAT...

Jesus DIRECTLY SAID -

And having come near, Jesus spake to them, saying, 'Given to me was all authority in heaven and on earth;​

(Matthew 28:18 YLT)​

I reject your claim.

Rhema

(and so should @Br. Bear )

Greetings,

perhaps a quick look at the word 'power' and the word 'authority' would help in understanding?

I realise the thread has wandered off course a little so, if possible can we try to tie the more recent parts back into the thread '

Be that as it may, to regard some nations as inherently on the side of light and others needing "a boulder in their path to slow down the darkness", is i believe a total misunderstanding of Christs teachings, all nations, governments are in the hands of the Devil, there is no light or dark, just individuals within those nations trying to do their best to bring the Light of Christs Love and Compassion into the Darkness.

@Rad , can you please write that again?
It can be read this way or that, due to the wording.

@Rhema , I do think this should be discussed in a separate thread. Reason being that the claim of "all nations, governments are in the hands of the Devil" is quite common.
Perhaps we can say to the devil, 'you win'? although that does not agree with what you have thus far presented.

Sometimes i try to understand what most folk think of 'the devil'. Perhaps it has been over glorified and made to be more power-filled and have more author-ity than Christ the Lord?

I can understand people getting anxious as they look at the world with understanding of men. We do need to remember and encourage one another more and more that we serve the LORD (or at least we ought to).

Some consider the 'improvements' in the ways of the world at large to be evidence of the message of the Kingdom being manifested. Sometimes we can't see the 'improvements' around us because we are still looking at the 'failures' or better put, the things not yet improved/healed.

Can i ask again about a 'run down' on 'power' amd 'authority' and what they are meant to mean? The translations we use sometimes pre-set our grasp, especially when we have learned to speak/hear without the gift that the Lord promised to give.


Bless you both ....><> ( and everyone else reading!!! )

Jesus is Lord

 

[Gregoryp]

Greetings Gregoryp,

do you have a problem with the forums?
If so, please contact the Administrator.


Bless you ....><>

Not at all, this is by far the best forum for interaction and learning the christian way. I was implying that there are people on here who are either incorrect in there interpertation of scripture, or are trolls who deliberately cause division. The same issues I see in the Australian bus enthusiasts forums and the GM forum. Its a wordly problem.

 

[Rhema]

@Rhema , I do think this should be discussed in a separate thread. Reason being that the claim of "all nations, governments are in the hands of the Devil" is quite common.
Perhaps we can say to the devil, 'you win'? although that does not agree with what you have thus far presented.

I realise the thread has wandered off course a little so, if possible can we try to tie the more recent parts back into the thread '

Understood.

Thank you,
Rhema

 

[Rhema]

Can i ask again about a 'run down' on 'power' and 'authority' and what they are meant to mean? The translations we use sometimes pre-set our grasp, especially when we have learned to speak/hear without the gift that the Lord promised to give.

It's only a single word in Greek. ἐξουσία - LINK to Liddell Scott Lexicon.

A. power, authority to do a thing.​

Ever been in the position of having the authority to do something, but no power? Or having the power to do something, but not have the authority? It's a nightmare, isn't it.

ἐξουσία means both - having both the power and the authority to accomplish a thing.

I truly believe that the world is in the condition it is in today because Christians either do not realize they have the authority (having been brainwashed to give it up to others) or if they do realize they are to exercise authority, they don't have the power that was promised in Acts chapter one and exemplified in Acts chapter two to accomplish that which Christ desires, or they use the WRONG power (i.e. the police powers of human governement rather than the Holy Spirit) to try and achieve the ends of Christ. What are those ends? Mat. 28:19, 20.

As not to derail the thread, I shall limit my answer to the above.

In Love,
Rhema

 

[Rad]

Rad said:
Be that as it may, to regard some nations as inherently on the side of light and others needing "a boulder in their path to slow down the darkness", is i believe a total misunderstanding of Christs teachings, all nations, governments are in the hands of the Devil, there is no light or dark, just individuals within those nations trying to do their best to bring the Light of Christs Love and Compassion into the Darkness.

@Rad , can you please write that again?
It can be read this way or that, due to the wording.

Hi Br Bear, yes i was going to say that the conversation had gone off thread somewhat, and could i also say that i am only too aware that there are so many things i dont understand about God, faith and its application to my life, Micah 6:8 is a particular favourite of mine, "And what does the Lord require of you, but to act justly, and to Love Mercy and to walk Humbly with your God", whenever i comment i should preface it with "I believe", and sometimes i forget, but the intention is always there. I am not learned in Scripture as some are on these forums but always try to put into practice when faced with any situation the two greatest Commandments, to love god with all your Heart Body and Soul and your neighbour as yourself.
My comment was in response to Gregoryp's post that Nations in the Light sometimes have to slow the spread of Darkness in the World by putting a Boulder in their path. My point was just that i believe there to be no Light or Dark Nations , for Nations by there very nature are concerned with Wealth and power, influence and prestige , and as such are undoubtedly on the side of the Dark, and to view some nations as inherently Light and others dark is a dangerous and wrong view of this World. My belief is that, as in Luke 4 vs 5-8, the power and the Glory of the Nations of the World are still in the hands of the Devil, and i illustrated a number of examples in another post to highlight that fact, although looking round this world its hard sometimes to see any light, the darkness is so great and i could have written a book on the Evil that pervades every Nation.
Rhema obviously tales a different view, and i tried to explain, although not very successfully, that i agree Christ has both the authority and power to do whatever he pleases on this Earth, i dont question that, but that for whatever reason at the moment he judges not to exercise that Authority and Power.
Christ predicted the events that would lead to the end of this World, to his second coming, and they point to a dramatic deterioration in conditions that prevail on the Earth, but until that time, we are called to feed the hungry, house the homeless, break the chains of injustice and free the oppressed, to speak out for those that have no voice themselves, these are the individuals that i spoke of in every nation trying to do their best to bring the light of Christs Love and Compassion into the Darkness of this suffering World.
Hope this makes things a bit clearer

 

[Gregoryp]

@Rad , can you please write that again?
It can be read this way or that, due to the wording.

Hi Br Bear, yes i was going to say that the conversation had gone off thread somewhat, and could i also say that i am only too aware that there are so many things i dont understand about God, faith and its application to my life, Micah 6:8 is a particular favourite of mine, "And what does the Lord require of you, but to act justly, and to Love Mercy and to walk Humbly with your God", whenever i comment i should preface it with "I believe", and sometimes i forget, but the intention is always there. I am not learned in Scripture as some are on these forums but always try to put into practice when faced with any situation the two greatest Commandments, to love god with all your Heart Body and Soul and your neighbour as yourself.
My comment was in response to Gregoryp's post that Nations in the Light sometimes have to slow the spread of Darkness in the World by putting a Boulder in their path. My point was just that i believe there to be no Light or Dark Nations , for Nations by there very nature are concerned with Wealth and power, influence and prestige , and as such are undoubtedly on the side of the Dark, and to view some nations as inherently Light and others dark is a dangerous and wrong view of this World. My belief is that, as in Luke 4 vs 5-8, the power and the Glory of the Nations of the World are still in the hands of the Devil, and i illustrated a number of examples in another post to highlight that fact, although looking round this world its hard sometimes to see any light, the darkness is so great and i could have written a book on the Evil that pervades every Nation.
Rhema obviously tales a different view, and i tried to explain, although not very successfully, that i agree Christ has both the authority and power to do whatever he pleases on this Earth, i dont question that, but that for whatever reason at the moment he judges not to exercise that Authority and Power.
Christ predicted the events that would lead to the end of this World, to his second coming, and they point to a dramatic deterioration in conditions that prevail on the Earth, but until that time, we are called to feed the hungry, house the homeless, break the chains of injustice and free the oppressed, to speak out for those that have no voice themselves, these are the individuals that i spoke of in every nation trying to do their best to bring the light of Christs Love and Compassion into the Darkness of this suffering World.
Hope this makes things a bit clearer

you misunderstand my point, GOD uses nations to slow the progress of Satan and his demons, regardless of there light or darkness, you may want to study up on Babylon and there leaders over time.

 

[K9Buckeye]

If your trying to change the world yourself, dont bother. The Lord our God has sent a great deception and left man to his own devices. No amount of interference on your behalf is going to stop that. Only when Jesus returns and sits on his throne her in the world will it change for the better. He doesnt need man to do that. I like you quote scripture like some sort of oracle, but then you forget the command to remove yourselves from the world and its desires. Funny that. No wonder many are removing themselves from organised religions and forums such as this.

Amen. The Christian does not anticipate the redemption of this world but, rather, the return of Christ and the destruction of this world.

Revelation 21:1 ESV / 20 helpful votes Helpful Not Helpful
Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea was no more.

 

[K9Buckeye]

this is by far the best forum for interaction and learning the christian way.

That is my experience too. Most Christian forums are as tolerant as the Taliban when it comes to tolerating dissenting views. This Christian discussion forum, so far, seems willing to permit discussion. Many so-called "Christian" forums protect and even advocate for abortion, transgenderism, same-sex relations, and much more and then BAN those that call them out for it.

 

[Rhema]

Nations by there very nature are concerned with Wealth and power, influence and prestige , and as such are undoubtedly on the side of the Dark,

OOooohhhhh... I get it now. You're from England. (As the penny drops....)

One wonders what they teach there about the American Revolution. Might there have been made mention of the Black-Robed Regiment?

The Black-Robed Regiment of the American Revolution – Christ Reformed Church

How is freedom of religion on the side of the Dark?

One wonders...

Rhema
A lot of our people died for yours. Today is Veteran's Day in the US. You should thank God for our soldiers, rather than being ungrateful. So my two uncles who died defending your country ?? ... I'm glad they did so for the sake of @Br. Bear

 

[Rhema]

My belief is that, as in Luke 4 vs 5-8, the power and the Glory of the Nations of the World are still in the hands of the Devil,

So again, you post that Jesus lied in Mat. 28:18

Okay. Just as long as you are aware of this.

 

[Rhema]

Rhema obviously tales a different view, and i tried to explain, although not very successfully, that i agree Christ has both the authority and power to do whatever he pleases on this Earth, i dont question that, but that for whatever reason at the moment he judges not to exercise that Authority and Power.

Hi Rad,

First I wish to address this -

whenever i comment i should preface it with "I believe", and sometimes i forget, but the intention is always there. I am not learned in Scripture as some are on these forums but always try to put into practice when faced with any situation the two greatest Commandments, to love god with all your Heart Body and Soul and your neighbour as yourself.

... and apologize for what can be seen as a harshness in my posts. I do recognize that you're willing to learn, and I appreciate the candor and humility that you've exhibited when posting your views. But I'm sure you can understand my exasperation when confronted by an overwhelming expression of unbelief found within the church writ large. While you as an individual are posting the views of a single person (yourself), I readily admit that my reply is affected by the thousands (yes, thousands) of voices that have been saying the exact same thing.

Now I am glad to hear that you "agree Christ has both the authority and power to do whatever he pleases on this Earth." But if this is truly the case, then you must disavow yourself of the belief that Satan is in control, (and or the "god" of this world) - and you need to stop saying this within your heart and your mouth. Life and death is in the power of the tongue. And Faith is expressed in the words we say:

And Jesus answering saith unto them, Have faith in God. For verily I say unto you, That whosoever shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; and shall not doubt in his heart, but shall believe that those things which he saith shall come to pass; he shall have whatsoever he saith. Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them.​

(Mark 11:22-24 KJV)​

I understand that believing the words of Jesus as found in the above passage is difficult. Yet look at this one phrase, "he shall have whatsoever he saith" - by saying that Satan is control of all the governments of the world (in direct opposition to Mat. 28:18) we make void the Word of God (i.e. Jesus) and in essence release faith for this to become true. Whenever that thought comes to mind, assassinate it - with prejudice, and replace it with Mat 28:18 - as an unconditional belief.

Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;​

(2 Corinthians 10:5 KJV)​

May I encourage you to bring into captivity every thought that stands in opposition to Mat. 28:18 ?? Including this one ??

... that for whatever reason at the moment he judges not to exercise that Authority and Power.

Because He does exercise that Authority and Power each and every moment. Where?

Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.​

(Ephesians 4:8 KJV)​

Jesus exercises that Authority and Power through the disciples to whom He has given His authority and power -

But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be μάρτυς of me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.​

(Acts 1:8 KJV)​

Jesus anoints His disciples as His Regents upon the Earth.

If this seem radical to you, it's because the Church has truly lost its faith, and no longer walks in the power of Christ (like the British TV show "Rev"). Have you ever been taught that you are to be a Regent? How can you know if you've not been taught this? I've already answered your question about how I can be so assured (an assurance that undoubtedly looks like arrogance). But I can admit two things. It has taken me a long time to learn this from the Father, and I all too readily lose patience with those who profess belief and yet turn around to voice unbelief.

Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?​

(Luke 18:8 KJV)​

This breaks my heart everyday. It's like the man who lives as a pauper because he has no knowledge that he is an heir of billions. Is not Jesus King of King? (Then are you not a King?) Is not Jesus Lord of Lords? (Then are you not a Lord?)

I've already posted the passage that teaches the principle "according to your faith so be it". Allow me to point out another passage:

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.​

(John 14:12 KJV)​

That is the measure of faith - the measure by which faith should be measured. Are we doing greater works than Jesus?

The simple question is, do you (we) actually believe this? God sits in the heavens perplexed that His Regents sit and do nothing, or think to use the police powers of human governments to accomplish His will or worse yet, to reduce the gospel to mere humanitarianism.

So where does Jesus say that his "Authority / Power" been placed in a Regency of the Disciples?

The exact same place where he declared to have that Authority / Power:

And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power/authority is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.​

(Matthew 28:18-20 KJV)​

And having come near, Jesus spake to them, saying, 'Given to me was all authority in heaven and on earth; having gone, then, disciple all the nations, (baptizing them—to the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all, whatever I did command you,) and lo, I am with you all the days—till the full end of the age.'​

(Matthew 28:18-20 YLT)​

​

And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.​

(Matthew 16:19 KJV)​

If you have not been given the keys.... Mr. Rad, go get them.

Rhema

Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a merchant man, seeking goodly pearls: Who, when he had found one pearl of great price, went and sold all that he had, and bought it.​

(Matthew 13:45-46 KJV)​

 

[Br. Bear]

@Rad , can you please write that again?
It can be read this way or that, due to the wording.

Hi Br Bear, yes i was going to say that the conversation had gone off thread somewhat, and could i also say that i am only too aware that there are so many things i dont understand about God, faith and its application to my life, Micah 6:8 is a particular favourite of mine, "And what does the Lord require of you, but to act justly, and to Love Mercy and to walk Humbly with your God", whenever i comment i should preface it with "I believe", and sometimes i forget, but the intention is always there. I am not learned in Scripture as some are on these forums but always try to put into practice when faced with any situation the two greatest Commandments, to love god with all your Heart Body and Soul and your neighbour as yourself.
My comment was in response to Gregoryp's post that Nations in the Light sometimes have to slow the spread of Darkness in the World by putting a Boulder in their path. My point was just that i believe there to be no Light or Dark Nations , for Nations by there very nature are concerned with Wealth and power, influence and prestige , and as such are undoubtedly on the side of the Dark, and to view some nations as inherently Light and others dark is a dangerous and wrong view of this World. My belief is that, as in Luke 4 vs 5-8, the power and the Glory of the Nations of the World are still in the hands of the Devil, and i illustrated a number of examples in another post to highlight that fact, although looking round this world its hard sometimes to see any light, the darkness is so great and i could have written a book on the Evil that pervades every Nation.
Rhema obviously tales a different view, and i tried to explain, although not very successfully, that i agree Christ has both the authority and power to do whatever he pleases on this Earth, i dont question that, but that for whatever reason at the moment he judges not to exercise that Authority and Power.
Christ predicted the events that would lead to the end of this World, to his second coming, and they point to a dramatic deterioration in conditions that prevail on the Earth, but until that time, we are called to feed the hungry, house the homeless, break the chains of injustice and free the oppressed, to speak out for those that have no voice themselves, these are the individuals that i spoke of in every nation trying to do their best to bring the light of Christs Love and Compassion into the Darkness of this suffering World.
Hope this makes things a bit clearer

That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of Him: the eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of His calling, and what the riches of the glory of His inheritance in the saints, and what is the exceeding greatness of His power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of His mighty power, which He wrought in Christ, when He raised Him from the dead, and set Him at His own right hand in the heavenly places, far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come: and hath put all things under His feet, and gave Him to be the head over all things to the church, which is His body, the fulness of Him that filleth all in all.
Ephesians 1:17-23
=====================

 

[Br. Bear]

The LORD has established His throne in heaven, and His kingdom rules over all
Psalm 103:19

For the LORD most high is terrible; He is a great King over all the earth.
Psalm 47:2

Say unto God, How terrible art Thou in Thy works! through the greatness of Thy power shall Thine enemies submit themselves unto Thee.
Psalm 66:3

Let the heavens be glad, and the earth rejoice. Let them say among the nations, 'The LORD reigns!'
1Chronicles 16:31

For God is the King of all the earth: sing ye praises with understanding.
God reigneth over the heathen: God sitteth upon the throne of His holiness.
Psalm 47:7-8

But at the end of those days I, Nebuchadnezzar, looked up to heaven, and my sanity was restored to me. Then I praised the Most High, and I honored and glorified Him who lives forever:

“For His dominion is an everlasting dominion,
and His kingdom endures from generation to generation.

All the peoples of the earth
are counted as nothing,
and He does as He pleases
with the army of heaven
and the peoples of the earth.
There is no one who can restrain His hand
or say to Him, ‘What have You done?’ ”
Daniel 4:34-35

 

[B-A-C]

set Him at His own right hand in the heavenly places, far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come: and hath put all things under His feet, and gave Him to be the head over all things to the church,

Col 2:15; When He had disarmed the rulers and authorities, He made a public display of them, having triumphed over them through Him.

 

[Br. Bear]

Col 2:15; When He had disarmed the rulers and authorities, He made a public display of them, having triumphed over them through Him.

To Him be glory and dominion for ever and ever.
Amen.
1Peter 5:11

 

[Brad Huber]

Ahh well, so much for this verse:

And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power/authority is given unto me in heaven and in earth.​

(Matthew 28:18 KJV)​

Rhema

And yet, when Jesus came upon evil spirits inhabiting human bodies, the evil spirits knew who He was and asked Him to let them be, for it was "Not their time". So there is still a "time" that evil runs rampant upon the earth. Jesus allows this, and only casts them out of the current receptacle for them, not destroying them as He will in the future.

 

[Rad]

If your trying to change the world yourself, dont bother. The Lord our God has sent a great deception and left man to his own devices. No amount of interference on your behalf is going to stop that. Only when Jesus returns and sits on his throne her in the world will it change for the better. He doesnt need man to do that. I like you quote scripture like some sort of oracle, but then you forget the command to remove yourselves from the world and its desires. Funny that. No wonder many are removing themselves from organised religions and forums such as this.

Im not trying to "save the World" as you put it, just trying to bring the light of Gods ,Love ,Compassion and Justice into it, for as Christs followers, thats what we're commanded to do. "Blessed are the Peacemakers, for they shall be called the Children of God", "Blessed are those that Hunger and Thirst for Righteousness For they shall be filled", "Let your Light so shine before men that they may see your Good works and Glorify your Father in heaven", are all sayings of Christ entreating those that claim to walk in his ways to be the Light in this Dark World.
We cannot remove ourselves from this World for we are a part of it, living, eating, Breathing and working in it, whatever we do, or dont do, has an effect on others, and we are commanded that our every action must be made on the basis of showing our love for our neighbour and treating others how we'd want them to treat us.
Yes this World is bound for destruction, theres no doubting that, but until that time comes, we must feed the hungry, house the homeless, give aid to the prisoner and the sick and clean water to the thirsty, for when its all stripped away, "what does the Lord require of us, but to act Justly, to love Mercy and to walk humbly with our God"
And i removed myself from "organised Religion" many years ago, for i believe once you institutionalise faith , once you constrict it by Human Laws and Commands you inevitably leave it open to the corruption, self serving and soul destroying forces so evident in much of todays "Organised religions".