Why doesn't God heal everyone?

[Bendito]

Hello Brother Bendito,
No I didn't learn that in church. What I wrote, was from the Spirit. Meaning, reading the Word of God and seeking to know it's meaning, by Word of God and by the insight the Holy Spirit provides. I can't say that I haven't done Bible studies, and can I say for 100% that I have not been affected by it? Of course not. No one who is honest can say that who has studied with others. That would include you as well Dear Brother.

Now, grabbing one verse to show this or that rather then taking it all in, apparently is the problem. You mention 1 Peter 2:24, however, it is past tense. Meaning that once you have come to the Lord you have been healed. We have been healed of what? Not of bodily infirmities, because as Brother Chad has shown, there are those in Scripture in being Saved were not healed. What we have been healed from is the ravages of Sin which bring death. Life brother is what we have and which Peter was talking about. Now this doesn't mean that physical healing does not happen, because Peter, and others throughout the age of the Church have been evidence of this, but there is also evidence that not all are healed, and blame was not placed upon an individuals lack of faith as being the reason this was so.

Now you have rightly stated the reference of Mark. However, we know that not all has the ability to heal. Unless you believe that the healing must come from the sickly? That kind of falls in line with the blind man, and the priesthood believing that it was sin that made this man so. Instead what our Lord stated, which was to bring Glory to God. Not to satisfy the man who was suffering this blindness from birth's desires, but rather, I repeat to bring Glory to God and so the healing happened.

I'm sure you think that looking it at the way we have described it here that then God is then the culprit for the healing not being done. Believe it or not that is probably true! Surprise you here? Yet culprit is probably how you might think it must be perceived, instead of seeing that it is for a reason unknown to us that it was not done. The reason I see it this way is that I understand that God does not have to explain Himself to me on why He would choose to have one healed and another not. I must ask you. Is it easier to blame the infirm person for lack of faith or accept our lack of understanding of God's reasoning why it was not done?

I would write more, but my Dear Wife has cooked an awesome meal that is starting to get cold!! :crying:
Know that I love you Dear Brother.
With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
<><

P.S. I didn't even review this 10 times either! So, you can count this a rough draft :smile:

Ok So you don't like 1 Peter 2:21 because it's past tense....It says you were healed...meaning if you were healed, you are the healed. Try Isa 53 Then verses 3-5 By His stripes you ARE healed....Now you are either healed or God lied to you. Which is it?
Then you said. " We have been healed of what? Not of bodily infirmities, because as Brother Chad has shown, there are those in Scripture in being Saved were not healed. What we have been healed from is the ravages of Sin which bring death. Life brother is what we have and which Peter was talking about. Now this doesn't mean that physical healing does not happen, because Peter, and others throughout the age of the Church have been evidence of this, but there is also evidence that not all are healed, and blame was not placed upon an individuals lack of faith as being the reason this was so."

Healed of what?! Psalm "I am the God who heals ALL of your dis eases. What do you need healing from? That's what you are healed from...Whatever you need healed from.
Brother Chad is mistaken. Yes Even Chad can misunderstand sometimes....There is no place in the entire bible where God the Father or Jesus himself refused to heal anybody. Not nobody! God showed Paul how to get free of that 'thorn in the flesh' and there was never any mention of it again...We can safely assume that Paul was smart enough to do as God suggested and got rid of the thing. If you read the Word properly Nick, you will see that Paul did not have bad eyesight....Look.
Galatians 6:11
11 Look at the large letters I use as I close in my own handwriting.
This verse is used to prove Paul had poor eyesight...but....Read the verse. "I'm using big letters as I close this letter....Why was he using big letters? Come on now...Why do you use All Caps? Emphasis!! Then read from vs to the end...Its a big deal.


The problem with many Christians, Nick, is that they don't read the Word carefully...and they completely ignore punctuation...Punctuation is vital in reading anything. And if the Christian will only listen to the Holy Spirit as he reads......The Word will come alive.....
So, at the risk of offending you (I hope I don't) I will say that if you learned that God does not heal everybody, then you've learned from the wrong spirit.
Enjoy your dinner dear friend....and pray for us.....I'm cooking tonight. LOL

 

[Christ4Ever]

Ok So you don't like 1 Peter 2:21 because it's past tense....It says you were healed...meaning if you were healed, you are the healed. Try Isa 53 Then verses 3-5 By His stripes you ARE healed....Now you are either healed or God lied to you. Which is it?
Then you said. " We have been healed of what? Not of bodily infirmities, because as Brother Chad has shown, there are those in Scripture in being Saved were not healed. What we have been healed from is the ravages of Sin which bring death. Life brother is what we have and which Peter was talking about. Now this doesn't mean that physical healing does not happen, because Peter, and others throughout the age of the Church have been evidence of this, but there is also evidence that not all are healed, and blame was not placed upon an individuals lack of faith as being the reason this was so."

Healed of what?! Psalm "I am the God who heals ALL of your dis eases. What do you need healing from? That's what you are healed from...Whatever you need healed from.
Brother Chad is mistaken. Yes Even Chad can misunderstand sometimes....There is no place in the entire bible where God the Father or Jesus himself refused to heal anybody. Not nobody! God showed Paul how to get free of that 'thorn in the flesh' and there was never any mention of it again...We can safely assume that Paul was smart enough to do as God suggested and got rid of the thing. If you read the Word properly Nick, you will see that Paul did not have bad eyesight....Look.
Galatians 6:11
11 Look at the large letters I use as I close in my own handwriting.
This verse is used to prove Paul had poor eyesight...but....Read the verse. "I'm using big letters as I close this letter....Why was he using big letters? Come on now...Why do you use All Caps? Emphasis!! Then read from vs to the end...Its a big deal.


The problem with many Christians, Nick, is that they don't read the Word carefully...and they completely ignore punctuation...Punctuation is vital in reading anything. And if the Christian will only listen to the Holy Spirit as he reads......The Word will come alive.....
So, at the risk of offending you (I hope I don't) I will say that if you learned that God does not heal everybody, then you've learned from the wrong spirit.
Enjoy your dinner dear friend....and pray for us.....I'm cooking tonight. LOL

Dear Bendito,
Yes, we must seek punctuation, but understanding the Word of God requires more importantly Spirit. Oh, I agree with the Psalm 103:3, which is what I'm assuming you're referencing. Yes, He does heal all diseases. The implication is that when a disease is healed, it's because God has done it. It does not state that He will. What you would read into it is that He doesn't because of the lack of faith of the person. This I don't see, but somehow you do. Which is fine, but don't place either the cause, or the lack of healing upon the faith of the person. Otherwise, I'd have to explain Job all over again, and I believe that subject has been covered quite extensively under another thread.

There is a person I know that has dealt with an infirmity for many years, and leaves it to God to heal him, even when there is an operation that has helped others correct the same issue, but believes it would be a lack of faith to go through with it. So, he lives with the infirmity, awaiting God to heal Him. To me this shows great faith and trust in God, so you would explain this how? Lack of faith on this persons part that he hasn't been healed, or God's time hasn't arrived yet for him to be healed?

As far as what exactly was the infirmity with Paul, there has been much conjecture on that. Whether it was sight, or something else, I can't say for sure. I just know that God did not heal Him of it when he asked for relief. However, we do know that he was given a thorn in his side and/or a messenger of satan to buffet him. Now buffet suggests blows so whether this was one and the same issue I don't know. What I do know is that God did not give him relief from it, and no where for surety do we know that he was ever relieved of it.

That is why I mentioned 2 Corinthians 12:10 in my initial posting, to show that he came to go beyond what he had to endure, for the sake of Christ. The issues he underwent did not go away, but rather he grew into accepting them so that he could be strong. Sadly, we see infirmities as making a person less then who they are, which is as I mentioned before, how the Priesthood during Jesus' Earthly Ministry saw it. Do make them less who so endure Brother.

As asked, I read Galatians 6:11-18 (to the end). I don't see the correlation to healing. There a couple of items, Law, Marks of Jesus, which the latter could be a thread unto itself, but I don't associate to healing or lack thereof. You'd have to break that down for me in order to show the connection.

No, I'm not insulted in what you have written in saying that what I have written to you and believe is from the wrong spirit. If you have read carefully what I wrote, reading the Word of God, and Spirit guided has provided me what I understand. What the Spirit tells one, must align with Scripture or it is false spirit. So, far I have not seen in Scripture what I have communicated to you is false. So, it just saddens me that you believe this to be so.

I'm always curious when there is a disagreement that it comes to things similar to what you have said to me (wrong spirit) or name calling. Is love so lacking in the world and in the Body of Christ that one cannot talk openly and freely speak on any subject without one finding it necessary to do these things whenever a disagreement arises?

So, in closing I hope you have waited to read this until after you have cooked what I can only hope was an excellent dinner, and that it doesn't lead you to having an upset stomach. Which of course I won't blame to what I have written here, but on me taking your word on what could be the quality of your cooking

With the Love of Christ Jesus Dear Brother.
YBIC
Nick
<><

 

[Chad]

Some of my favorite preachers, world renown pastors like Dr. David Jeremiah and Charles Stanley preach that God still heals but does not heal everyone. I also have not been healed of my hearing impairment I've had since birth despite praying many endless times over the years, believing, exercising faith, confessing every possible sin to make sure that wasn't an obstacle, and so forth. Tell me, am I in the wrong for not being healed? I don't think so.

 

[Bendito]

Some of my favorite preachers, world renown pastors like Dr. David Jeremiah and Charles Stanley preach that God still heals but does not heal everyone. I also have not been healed of my hearing impairment I've had since birth despite praying many endless times over the years, believing, exercising faith, confessing every possible sin to make sure that wasn't an obstacle, and so forth. Tell me, am I in the wrong for not being healed? I don't think so.

No, you are not at fault....Everybody is at a different point of learning and growth....I have no problem with healing, but I may have a problem with something else, where you have no problem.

 

[Bendito]

Dear Bendito,
Yes, we must seek punctuation, but understanding the Word of God requires more importantly Spirit. Oh, I agree with the Psalm 103:3, which is what I'm assuming you're referencing. Yes, He does heal all diseases. The implication is that when a disease is healed, it's because God has done it. It does not state that He will. What you would read into it is that He doesn't because of the lack of faith of the person. This I don't see, but somehow you do. Which is fine, but don't place either the cause, or the lack of healing upon the faith of the person. Otherwise, I'd have to explain Job all over again, and I believe that subject has been covered quite extensively under another thread.

There is a person I know that has dealt with an infirmity for many years, and leaves it to God to heal him, even when there is an operation that has helped others correct the same issue, but believes it would be a lack of faith to go through with it. So, he lives with the infirmity, awaiting God to heal Him. To me this shows great faith and trust in God, so you would explain this how? Lack of faith on this persons part that he hasn't been healed, or God's time hasn't arrived yet for him to be healed?

As far as what exactly was the infirmity with Paul, there has been much conjecture on that. Whether it was sight, or something else, I can't say for sure. I just know that God did not heal Him of it when he asked for relief. However, we do know that he was given a thorn in his side and/or a messenger of satan to buffet him. Now buffet suggests blows so whether this was one and the same issue I don't know. What I do know is that God did not give him relief from it, and no where for surety do we know that he was ever relieved of it.

That is why I mentioned 2 Corinthians 12:10 in my initial posting, to show that he came to go beyond what he had to endure, for the sake of Christ. The issues he underwent did not go away, but rather he grew into accepting them so that he could be strong. Sadly, we see infirmities as making a person less then who they are, which is as I mentioned before, how the Priesthood during Jesus' Earthly Ministry saw it. Do make them less who so endure Brother.

As asked, I read Galatians 6:11-18 (to the end). I don't see the correlation to healing. There a couple of items, Law, Marks of Jesus, which the latter could be a thread unto itself, but I don't associate to healing or lack thereof. You'd have to break that down for me in order to show the connection.

No, I'm not insulted in what you have written in saying that what I have written to you and believe is from the wrong spirit. If you have read carefully what I wrote, reading the Word of God, and Spirit guided has provided me what I understand. What the Spirit tells one, must align with Scripture or it is false spirit. So, far I have not seen in Scripture what I have communicated to you is false. So, it just saddens me that you believe this to be so.

I'm always curious when there is a disagreement that it comes to things similar to what you have said to me (wrong spirit) or name calling. Is love so lacking in the world and in the Body of Christ that one cannot talk openly and freely speak on any subject without one finding it necessary to do these things whenever a disagreement arises?

So, in closing I hope you have waited to read this until after you have cooked what I can only hope was an excellent dinner, and that it doesn't lead you to having an upset stomach. Which of course I won't blame to what I have written here, but on me taking your word on what could be the quality of your cooking :smile:

With the Love of Christ Jesus Dear Brother.
YBIC
Nick
<><

Well, I've said plainly and clearly at least twice in this thread, that faith has nothing to do with not seeing your healing.....I said You see not because you believe not....When you believe that healing is for YOU you will see it.
That said....I'll have to get back to you later. I'm too stuffed to move....Broccoli really fills you up. LOL

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

Greetings and Blessings in Christ.

In this thread not only has healing been a topic but Paul's Thorn as well. My intention here is to present some Biblical Views in this area of Paul's Thorn and Glorying in infirmities.

This is just a short presentation in order to shed light on the false teaching from the pulpits that satan had sown into the church.

With that said let's get to the main Scriptures in question.

2 Co 12:7-10
And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure. For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me. And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me. Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ’s sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong.”


The Thorn in the flesh

These few little words have been used and misused throughout the Body of Christ for generations.

Why?
To get Christians to Accept and Reason Off just about every problem they encounter.


By Whom?
No one other then our enemy the devil.
This is part of many false teachings satan has sowed into the church.
Now let's see the why and how of this.

LIE ....
God would not heal Paul

WHY .....
to deceive many believers into believing since God would not heal Paul how can they themselves ever get healed, after all you are no paul.


Ok, now let's dig further into this and see how this could be and what this Thorn really was.

Why did this Thorn come?
Scripture says because of the abundance of revelations that Paul Had Received.
People despite what they believe must grasp that no one gets a thorn issued unto them without first Gaining An Abundance Of Revelations.


Look at verse 7
it came lest Paul should be exalted above measure.

LIE
the thorn was to keep Paul humble.
So God had to have done this after all the devil would not want Paul to be humble.

Truth
Peter 5:6
HUMBLE YOURSELVES. .... THEREFORE Under The Mighty Hand of God......THAT HE MAY EXALT YOU .....In Due Time.

So here we see that those who humble themselves are eventually Exalted by God.


Again let's put this into perspective.
Paul was not talking about keeping himself from PRIDE by exalting himself.....

What Paul was telling us is this....
satan had sent a thorn to KEEP Paul from being Exalted By God before the people in which he wanted to reach.

Now if satan had not constantly interrupted what Paul was doing then his calling would have been a cake walk and all the people would have received Paul and his teaching of Jesus Christ. However we know Paul's walk was anything but a cake walk.

Let's examine God Exalting
Joshua 3:7
We see God exalted or magnified Joshua in the sight of his people.

We see in Acts 5:13 that God was still doing this with People He Used even in the New Covenant or New Testament.
So we can also gather that Paul's thorn was NOT FROM GOD.

Now let's examine verse 7 closely.
There is a part that gets ignored as the part on the thorn gets all the attention.
Here is this portion. .
"The Messenger of Satan TO BUFFET ME"

Now that there is what the Thorn Was.
Thorn is a messenger of satan that was sent to BUFFET Paul.

BUFFET means to STRIKE REPEATEDLY or over and over and over.

Ok now let's put this into perspective as well.

LIE
Traditional pulpit teaching says Paul's thorn was sickness and bad eyes.

How and Why
Two Words in Verses 9 and 10 have been FALSELY USED.

Again sown into the church by satan.

These two words are "WEAKNESS" and "INFIRMITY"

The use of the word Infirmity in verses 9 and 10 are not used as sickness as in Timothy 5:23.

HOWEVER let's look to ROMANS 8:26
The word INFIRMITIES is used here as well.
"THE SPIRIT ALSO HELPETH OUR INFIRMITIES"
Here we find the Word INFIRMITIES To Mean (LACK or INADEQUATE)
Scripture here is not talking about sickness but our weakness in our thinking and understanding by NOT KNOWING what to pray for.

Throughout our Bible we will find words used many different ways with different meanings.


So by now we should grasp that in 2 cor 12:9-10 the word Infirmity does Not mean sickness.

Paul writes "Glorying in infirmities"
11:23-29 Paul list those infirmities and NONE are Sickness.

V27 Paul mentions weakness and painfulness.
Some of the lie sown into the church says Paul was talking about sickness here too, HOWEVER if we stick to what Paul Actually Wrote then it's not hard to grasp being stoned to death and shipwrecked and beaten and put into chains is very PAINFUL and would leave one WEAK.

All these infirmities in 2 Cor. 11 are PERSECUTIONS.
So we now can see that Paul's Thorn was a demonic spirit sent to buffet him or stir up strife and confusion through persecution.

Why?
To further cause division with people who had not heard this Gospel of Christ. To keep people from HEARING the truth and being set free and Born Again and Filled With The Holy SPIRIT.

To keep Paul from being EXALTED By God in the eyes and hearts of the people who needed this message greatly.


Paul asked God three times to remove this thorn.
God said "My Grace is Sufficent"

Now in perspective
Paul did not ask God to remove sickness but persecution.

Let's look at what Paul wrote.

My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me. Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ’s sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong.”

Glory in my infirmities.
The word Gory is an old English word which means......COMMAND as in having DOMINION.


Lie
God Would Not Heal Paul

Truth
God said my Grace is Sufficent. Now Grace throughout God's Word takes on many different meanings and I am not going to get into all that here at this time.

Facts
Paul Was Still Learning what we take for granted in our Bibles.
Paul was busy Teaching what He was Learning (All Those Revelations)

Paul himself was STILL LEARNING as he taught , AND LEARNING to put forth into practice what he was learning and teaching.

What does all this mean ?
Simply Put, : it took him a little while to SEE what he HEARD but when he truly understood it he turned on that demonic spirit and casted it out.

Paul knew what God had meant when He said,
My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness.
He understood God said You Take Care of it.

Reference. ...
No place in the New Testament will you find any place where God said You Pray and I will do something about the devil for you.

Fact....
We are Told to do something about the devil.
Unless we do then God cant. Yes Can't.

God Can Not do for us what He has Given, Told and Authorized us to do.

That is why most of the time nothing is done about the devil.

This will take us to who really has the keys to the kingdom and who must use them.
This includes binding and loosing or PERMITTING AND NOT PERMITTING.

Believe it or not this all ties into healing.

Friends the Word of God is not a free for all and sometimes it works out and some times it does not.

There are Kingdom Laws put into being. (His Written Word)
There is order amongst the ranks of God's Commands.

Nothing just happens or not.
Anything Given Unto US By Grace MUST Be Accessed By FAITH. This includes EVERY Single Promise we inherited.

We have an enemy looking for some one to devour.
This means when you exercise your Faith you most likely will be met with RESISTANCE from our enemy the devil in order to steel, kill and destroy.

This means he is working against you obtaining the manifestation of the promise you are wanting to receive.

This is the true fight of Faith.
No one is exempt from the fight.
Quick example....God GAVE the children of Israel the land. He already said it was theirs.
All they had to do was go POSSESS THE LAND.

All but two caved, crumbled and gave up when they found opposition. They never RECEIVED.

God said the VICTORY is ours. We still have to fight our fight but if we do......then we Receive the Victory.

Again this is just a short shallow look into this.

I am not pushing my understanding but simply presenting what I have come to realize and understand. Like everything else, honestly seek God and let Him show you His Word concerning all this.

There are so many false truths being taught in the pulpits that were sown into the church many generations ago.

Blessings and Love in Christ
Wired


@B-A-C I am tagging you because you quickly did not agree with what I said in @Dave M thread about Paul.

Here is some of the details I did not get into then.

 

[Quantrill]

Does God heal today? Of course. Does that mean He always heals? No. The person who says God doesn't heal today is just as wrong as the one who says God will always heal if you come to Him. God's purpose for the individual is the key.

There are so many examples of healing done by Christ that one could not make a pattern to say this is what you must do to be healed. Sometimes He spoke the Word and the person was healed. Once he spat on the ground, and made a paste of mud to the eyes, and the person was healed. Some came to Him to be healed. Some didn't even know who He was and He healed them. God's will is the key.

One may say that is just an excuse for one's unbelief. I disagree. You no more control the healing then you do the sickness. Sicknesses are not present in believers for the same reasons. Some are just the natural result of living in this sin ridden earth. Some are a judgement from God. Some are for the glory of God. Some are for refining the believers faith and walk with God.

God doesn't jump at our command to 'heal'. He is not ordered by us. And this is the attitude projected by many in the healing ministries today. I believe there are believers who have the gift of healing. But I don't believe any who have the gift of healing have seen everyone healed. If the sickness is for the glory of God or for refining the believers faith, then God is not going to heal it. If it is for calling the believer home, God is not going to heal it.

Why should the apostle James have been killed by Herod yet Peter allowed to live? (Acts 12:1-3) We don't know. It was the will of God.

Quantrill

 

[KingJ]

It is such an insult to the gospel of Jesus to read 'by His stripes we are healed' as having anything to do with bodily healing!

Isaiah 55 is speaking to the reason Jesus went to go to the cross. How we was a Lamb to the slaughter. He did not go to the cross to heal ''Bob's toe''. He went to the cross to die for our sins. To restore mankind with God. By His stripes we are healed from our ''SINS''. Healed from death. Just read Isaiah 55. Do not cherry pick the last phrase in verse 5!

Isa 55:1-5 Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the Lord revealed? 2 For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him. 3 He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not. 4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted. 5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

All we need to know about healing is mentioned in these three verses:

1. John 9:31 We know that God does not listen to sinners. He listens to the godly person who does his will.

IE God always hears and responds to the prayers of Christians. His hands are never tied from helping them. It is never a case of not enough faith or what not for a Christian.

2. Matt 17:20 He replied, "Because you have so little faith. Truly I tell you, if you have faith as small as a mustard seed, you can say to this mountain, 'Move from here to there,' and it will move. Nothing will be impossible for you."

A Christian is given faith in Jesus. We have a lot more then a mustard seed. We can move many mountains. Which means if many mountains do not move when we ask them to, it is simply not His will. A Christian should know not to put God to the test. This is exactly what we do when we push beyond a simple prayer for healing. It is a very disrespectful way to interact with God.

3. James 1:2-4 Count it all joy, my brothers, when you meet trials of various kinds, for you know that the testing of your faith produces steadfastness. And let steadfastness have its full effect, that you may be perfect and complete, lacking in nothing

This verse and many more speak to a Christian enduring trials and tribulations. Not just persecutions for our faith. A simple read of Job reveals all we need to know.

 

[KingJ]

I had a heart block in 1990. While I was outside my body in the ER looking at my darkening body, my wife went into prayer warfare as medical staff were departing, having spent at least half an hour trying to bring me back. She got in my face shouting Come back! You will not die. Lord, I want my husband back the way he was yesterday. He is your servant, and he would agree with me. She got in my ear and said "Wake up. I know you are still here. Heart, start beating. I looked at the monitor, the green line still flat. I looked up and said Lord, I want her to have what she's asking for. I know I'm ready to go on with you Help these doctors figure out what to do and what went wrong. Whatever I've done to bring this on must be corrected. I'm committed to that." There was much more said, but when the Lord told me it was my choice, I slid back into my body and woke up. We praised the Lord. Many employees in that hospital were born again over it, and many more "rededicated". Other patients visited for prayer. Some were offended over our brash praying and claims, but many accepted. We learned of dozens of miracles and many more improvements in health. We go to surgery waiting rooms and lay hands on people who allow it. We see healing happen, and we hear scoffing, ridicule, unbelief. It's OK.

I do believe in your out of body experience. Thanks for sharing. It is quote a testimony.

But using your testimony to convince people of ''it always being God's will to heal'' is not tying up for me. Unrelated issues.

Are you proposing you are currently in perfect health?

 

[KingJ]

Two years ago my wife endured breast cancer at age 72. It was even spread down her side. The doctors gave her no hope. In that doctor's room I said "Thank you doctor, we are now free to totally trust God and take Him at His word to heal her." We always declare that. She took chemo. The staff was amazed she wouldn't need radiology due to lack of swollen lymph nodes. We continued to praise God in it all, and greatly increased ministry to dying people. My wife was recently told she no longer has cancer.

I met a man in a nursing home dying from several diseases. I got to know him and learned he was among the team that developed the first atomic bomb exploded over Japan. He regretted having part in so many deaths, tortured by that. I brought him to salvation, and taught him boldness in prayer. We went together boldly to God's throne for solutions, the help God promised. He got it. He has left the facility healed, taken up golf witnessing to men he knew, and bought a farm where he truck farms and gives the food to the poor and wealthy alike so they can eat healthily too.

Why don't you go empty hospitals then?

Five Baptist ministers came to visit us to warn us of our practices. We think you are in danger by putting God on the spot. We are concerned that your methods will hurt someone we love." Well, it's a major reason we left the So. Baptists years ago, yet when they get sick they call us. We go pray, never asking for healing "if it be thy will". It is His will to be healed, as much as it is for us to be saved. He covered those on the cross after demonstrating His will while ministering among men.

So you are playing God now.

 

[Victor Van Heerden]

I do believe in your out of body experience.

Nope - cant happen. There is always a natural explanation.

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

God's purpose for the individual is the key.

You no more control the healing then you do the sickness.

Sicknesses are not present in believers for the same reasons.[/

Some are just the natural result of living in this sin ridden earth. Some are a judgement from God. Some are for the glory of God. Some are for refining the believers faith and walk with God.

These are all excuses.
They take the lack of off of the individual and place them on God.
Its as NO FAULT Religion - no matter what happens its not my fault.

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

Which means if many mountains do not move when we ask them to, it is simply not His will

The only way this could be true was if we did not have an enemy called the devil.

Its so easy to say well this did not happen in my time frame so its not Gods Will.

Wow with that thinking all the devil has to do is delay your victory or mountain moving long enough and you will give up and say its not Gods Will.

No Brother we are required to fight and stand our ground.
That's the difference between a soldier and a weekend warrior

 

[Christ4Ever]

LIE ....
God would not heal Paul

Dear Brother,
I think part of the issue is semantics. Most look at it as either God healed Paul or He did not. Not looking to the reason why a healing did not happen which in truth was to the benefit of Paul, and not a detriment as some might see it. According to Paul's own words we come to understand this (2 Corinthians 12). That it was to save him from himself. Still, what it comes down to, is that healing or not healing are benefits that ultimately are to help us and more importantly to the Glory God.

So, I don't think it's a lie, just that sufficient clarification on this subject is rarely a discussion like we are having here.

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
<><

 

[Bendito]

Greetings and Blessings in Christ.

In this thread not only has healing been a topic but Paul's Thorn as well. My intention here is to present some Biblical Views in this area of Paul's Thorn and Glorying in infirmities.

This is just a short presentation in order to shed light on the false teaching from the pulpits that satan had sown into the church.

With that said let's get to the main Scriptures in question.

2 Co 12:7-10
And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure. For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me. And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me. Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ’s sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong.”


The Thorn in the flesh

These few little words have been used and misused throughout the Body of Christ for generations.

Why?
To get Christians to Accept and Reason Off just about every problem they encounter.


By Whom?
No one other then our enemy the devil.
This is part of many false teachings satan has sowed into the church.
Now let's see the why and how of this.

LIE ....
God would not heal Paul

WHY .....
to deceive many believers into believing since God would not heal Paul how can they themselves ever get healed, after all you are no paul.


Ok, now let's dig further into this and see how this could be and what this Thorn really was.

Why did this Thorn come?
Scripture says because of the abundance of revelations that Paul Had Received.
People despite what they believe must grasp that no one gets a thorn issued unto them without first Gaining An Abundance Of Revelations.


Look at verse 7
it came lest Paul should be exalted above measure.

LIE
the thorn was to keep Paul humble.
So God had to have done this after all the devil would not want Paul to be humble.

Truth
Peter 5:6
HUMBLE YOURSELVES. .... THEREFORE Under The Mighty Hand of God......THAT HE MAY EXALT YOU .....In Due Time.

So here we see that those who humble themselves are eventually Exalted by God.


Again let's put this into perspective.
Paul was not talking about keeping himself from PRIDE by exalting himself.....

What Paul was telling us is this....
satan had sent a thorn to KEEP Paul from being Exalted By God before the people in which he wanted to reach.

Now if satan had not constantly interrupted what Paul was doing then his calling would have been a cake walk and all the people would have received Paul and his teaching of Jesus Christ. However we know Paul's walk was anything but a cake walk.

Let's examine God Exalting
Joshua 3:7
We see God exalted or magnified Joshua in the sight of his people.

We see in Acts 5:13 that God was still doing this with People He Used even in the New Covenant or New Testament.
So we can also gather that Paul's thorn was NOT FROM GOD.

Now let's examine verse 7 closely.
There is a part that gets ignored as the part on the thorn gets all the attention.
Here is this portion. .
"The Messenger of Satan TO BUFFET ME"

Now that there is what the Thorn Was.
Thorn is a messenger of satan that was sent to BUFFET Paul.

BUFFET means to STRIKE REPEATEDLY or over and over and over.

Ok now let's put this into perspective as well.

LIE
Traditional pulpit teaching says Paul's thorn was sickness and bad eyes.

How and Why
Two Words in Verses 9 and 10 have been FALSELY USED.

Again sown into the church by satan.

These two words are "WEAKNESS" and "INFIRMITY"

The use of the word Infirmity in verses 9 and 10 are not used as sickness as in Timothy 5:23.

HOWEVER let's look to ROMANS 8:26
The word INFIRMITIES is used here as well.
"THE SPIRIT ALSO HELPETH OUR INFIRMITIES"
Here we find the Word INFIRMITIES To Mean (LACK or INADEQUATE)
Scripture here is not talking about sickness but our weakness in our thinking and understanding by NOT KNOWING what to pray for.

Throughout our Bible we will find words used many different ways with different meanings.


So by now we should grasp that in 2 cor 12:9-10 the word Infirmity does Not mean sickness.

Paul writes "Glorying in infirmities"
11:23-29 Paul list those infirmities and NONE are Sickness.

V27 Paul mentions weakness and painfulness.
Some of the lie sown into the church says Paul was talking about sickness here too, HOWEVER if we stick to what Paul Actually Wrote then it's not hard to grasp being stoned to death and shipwrecked and beaten and put into chains is very PAINFUL and would leave one WEAK.

All these infirmities in 2 Cor. 11 are PERSECUTIONS.
So we now can see that Paul's Thorn was a demonic spirit sent to buffet him or stir up strife and confusion through persecution.

Why?
To further cause division with people who had not heard this Gospel of Christ. To keep people from HEARING the truth and being set free and Born Again and Filled With The Holy SPIRIT.

To keep Paul from being EXALTED By God in the eyes and hearts of the people who needed this message greatly.


Paul asked God three times to remove this thorn.
God said "My Grace is Sufficent"

Now in perspective
Paul did not ask God to remove sickness but persecution.

Let's look at what Paul wrote.

My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me. Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ’s sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong.”

Glory in my infirmities.
The word Gory is an old English word which means......COMMAND as in having DOMINION.


Lie
God Would Not Heal Paul

Truth
God said my Grace is Sufficent. Now Grace throughout God's Word takes on many different meanings and I am not going to get into all that here at this time.

Facts
Paul Was Still Learning what we take for granted in our Bibles.
Paul was busy Teaching what He was Learning (All Those Revelations)

Paul himself was STILL LEARNING as he taught , AND LEARNING to put forth into practice what he was learning and teaching.

What does all this mean ?
Simply Put, : it took him a little while to SEE what he HEARD but when he truly understood it he turned on that demonic spirit and casted it out.

Paul knew what God had meant when He said,
My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness.
He understood God said You Take Care of it.

Reference. ...
No place in the New Testament will you find any place where God said You Pray and I will do something about the devil for you.

Fact....
We are Told to do something about the devil.
Unless we do then God cant. Yes Can't.

God Can Not do for us what He has Given, Told and Authorized us to do.

That is why most of the time nothing is done about the devil.

This will take us to who really has the keys to the kingdom and who must use them.
This includes binding and loosing or PERMITTING AND NOT PERMITTING.

Believe it or not this all ties into healing.

Friends the Word of God is not a free for all and sometimes it works out and some times it does not.

There are Kingdom Laws put into being. (His Written Word)
There is order amongst the ranks of God's Commands.

Nothing just happens or not.
Anything Given Unto US By Grace MUST Be Accessed By FAITH. This includes EVERY Single Promise we inherited.

We have an enemy looking for some one to devour.
This means when you exercise your Faith you most likely will be met with RESISTANCE from our enemy the devil in order to steel, kill and destroy.

This means he is working against you obtaining the manifestation of the promise you are wanting to receive.

This is the true fight of Faith.
No one is exempt from the fight.
Quick example....God GAVE the children of Israel the land. He already said it was theirs.
All they had to do was go POSSESS THE LAND.

All but two caved, crumbled and gave up when they found opposition. They never RECEIVED.

God said the VICTORY is ours. We still have to fight our fight but if we do......then we Receive the Victory.

Again this is just a short shallow look into this.

I am not pushing my understanding but simply presenting what I have come to realize and understand. Like everything else, honestly seek God and let Him show you His Word concerning all this.

There are so many false truths being taught in the pulpits that were sown into the church many generations ago.

Blessings and Love in Christ
Wired


@B-A-C I am tagging you because you quickly did not agree with what I said in @Dave M thread about Paul.

Here is some of the details I did not get into then.

Yes yes yes yes YES!!!

 

[Bendito]

Does God still heal today? The answer is simple....No, God does not heal today....He did that two thousand years ago. Two thousand years ago Jesus took the stripes that bought and paid for all of your healing. It does not need to be done again. You need to reach out now, and take the healing that is paid for and offered to you. Jesus has your healing in His hands and is reaching out to hand it to you...TAKE IT! It's yours.
Isaiah 53:3-5 says "By Jesus stripes, we are healed" Then Peter 2:24 says "By Jesus stripes we were healed" The two verses cover past present and future.

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

You need to reach out now, and take the healing that is paid for and offered to you

Correct we are the Healed and sickness is trying to take hold.

The problem is.....the devil.
he has a plan, desire a mind set that he is NOT going to allow you to access and Receive anything.

So don't blame God by making excuses why it does not happen if you are not willing to stand and fight.

If your dad said he purchased you a classic car and its yours but the evil guy next door said no you ain't getting that car and is prepared to keep it from you.

You can't blame your dad that you did not get it if you don't do anything to get it

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

Dear Brother,
I think part of the issue is semantics. Most look at it as either God healed Paul or He did not. Not looking to the reason why a healing did not happen

Healed from what?
There was nothing to be healed from.

Paul's own words we come to understand this (2 Corinthians 12). That it was to save him from himself.

No Sir that is not correct.
Paul never made such claim but people do.

 

[Quantrill]

Wired 4 Fishen

Why do you manipulate your words into my quote in post [HASH=1928]#(32[/HASH])? That is being quite deceptive. You are trying to attribute your words to me. I can't blame you, after reading what you say, but it is very dishonest. It is akin to lying.

Quantrill

 

[Quantrill]

Wired 4 Fishen

You claim the reasons I gave in post [HASH=1930]#(27[/HASH]) are all excuses. Why? What is untrue about them?

Quantrill