Why doesn't God heal everyone?

[Wired 4 Fishen]

Dear Brother,
I think part of the issue is semantics. Most look at it as either God healed Paul or He did not. Not looking to the reason why a healing did not happen which in truth was to the benefit of Paul, and not a detriment as some might see it. According to Paul's own words we come to understand this (2 Corinthians 12). That it was to save him from himself. Still, what it comes down to, is that healing or not healing are benefits that ultimately are to help us and more importantly to the Glory God.

So, I don't think it's a lie, just that sufficient clarification on this subject is rarely a discussion like we are having here.

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
<><

Greetings Brother Nick,

YLT
and that by the exceeding greatness of the revelations I might not be exalted overmuch, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, a messenger of the Adversary, that he might buffet me, that I might not be exalted overmuch.

KJV
And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.

Peter 5:6
HUMBLE YOURSELVES. .... THEREFORE Under The Mighty Hand of God......THAT HE MAY EXALT YOU .....In Due Time.


What happens when God Exalts You?
You Shine Bright unto the People.

Why would satan bother Paul in order to keep him humble when it is satan who tries to puff us up?

Look Paul said
1 and that by the exceeding greatness of the revelations I might not be exalted overmuch,

2. there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, a messenger of the Adversary, that he might buffet me, that I might not be exalted overmuch.

No where does this say
God did this
It was to keep Paul humble
It was a sickness or bad eyes

What Paul does say is....
From all the Revelations or Understanding of the Hidden Truths of God's Word I was to be EXALTED by God in order that I would shine Brightly before the people CAUSING them to SEE The Holy God in me.

However satan sent me a thorn, one of his messengers to buffet me. To hinder my work and to keep me from being Exalted By God unto the people.

You have to work hard to get sickness out of this or that God sent satan to humble Paul when in His own Word He Told Us To Humble Ourselves before Him.

Look again at what Paul said.

Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me. Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ’s sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong.”

YLT
wherefore I am well pleased in infirmities, in damages, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses -- for Christ; for whenever I am infirm, then I am powerful;


In 11:23-29 Paul list some of these infirmities. Sickness is not there nor is there any hint of it.

Paul said Glory in these.
No how and no way does this say accept, put up with because God did not heal him.

Paul said take dominion over them.

To say God refused to heal Paul is a direct misunderstanding of what is meant by God saying My Grace is Sufficent and in your weakness or infirmities my Grace, Strengths (Power) is Big in YOU!!

Paul was not to rely on his own strength but the Power of God in him.
The very moment Paul understood this we see where Paul COMMANDED by the Power of God (Grace) that evil spirit to leave.

It left and the towns people turned on Paul for destroying their gravy train, their cash cow.

Blessings and Love in Christ

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

Wired 4 Fishen

Why do you manipulate your words into my quote in post [HASH=1928]#(32[/HASH])? That is being quite deceptive. You are trying to attribute your words to me. I can't blame you, after reading what you say, but it is very dishonest. It is akin to lying.

Quantrill

What exactly do you mean here?

 

[Fragrant Grace]

Greetings brothers @Bendito @Wired 4 Fishen @Quantrill @Christ4Ever @Dovegiven @Victor Van Heerden @KingJ and anyone I may have missed.

A question based on what some of you have said/suggested

Did the following people not reach out in faith and accept their healing?

Joni Eareckson Tada

Nick Vujicic

The late Fanny J Crosby

The late Charles Spurgeon

The late Charlotte Elliot

Is there any possibility that the Lord was able to work through their disbilities/ailments to bless them with a wonderful ministry or testimony?
(Please note I am not saying the Lord caused their issues)

Blessings grace and peace to you all.

 

[Quantrill]

Greetings brothers @Bendito @Wired 4 Fishen @Quantrill @Christ4Ever @Dovegiven @Victor Van Heerden @KingJ and anyone I may have missed.

A question based on what some of you have said/suggested

Did the following people not reach out in faith and accept their healing?

Joni Eareckson Tada

Nick Vujicic

The late Fanny J Crosby

The late Charles Spurgeon

The late Charlotte Elliot

Is there any possibility that the Lord was able to work through their disbilities/ailments to bless them with a wonderful ministry or testimony?
(Please note I am not saying the Lord caused their issues)

Blessings grace and peace to you all.

Of course there is.

Quantrill

 

[Bendito]

Greetings brothers @Bendito @Wired 4 Fishen @Quantrill @Christ4Ever @Dovegiven @Victor Van Heerden @KingJ and anyone I may have missed.

A question based on what some of you have said/suggested

Did the following people not reach out in faith and accept their healing?

Joni Eareckson Tada

Nick Vujicic

The late Fanny J Crosby

The late Charles Spurgeon

The late Charlotte Elliot

Is there any possibility that the Lord was able to work through their disbilities/ailments to bless them with a wonderful ministry or testimony?
(Please note I am not saying the Lord caused their issues)

Blessings grace and peace to you all.

Dear Little Sister....Unless we believe that we are healed, we will not reach out in faith....Our healing, like our salvation and every other gift God has for us, depends on our believing God's Word, and believing its for you...All the faith in the world is useless unless you believe God's Word....And know that YOUR healing IS God's will.

 

[KingJ]

Greetings brothers @Bendito @Wired 4 Fishen @Quantrill @Christ4Ever @Dovegiven @Victor Van Heerden @KingJ and anyone I may have missed.

A question based on what some of you have said/suggested

Did the following people not reach out in faith and accept their healing?

Joni Eareckson Tada

Nick Vujicic

The late Fanny J Crosby

The late Charles Spurgeon

The late Charlotte Elliot

Is there any possibility that the Lord was able to work through their disbilities/ailments to bless them with a wonderful ministry or testimony?
(Please note I am not saying the Lord caused their issues)

Blessings grace and peace to you all.

Reach out in faith? Does a child need to reach out for a plaster? A good parent, which God our Father is, will see our need before we even ask. A child that is crying get's their parents full attention.

It is just so annoying to hear people insinuate that only the child that '''reaches out'' or ''remains positive''' or ''recites magical verses''' will get attention. The nervous, fearful and illiterate child will be ignored by a good parent? I think not.

These people you mentioned, they served God with ailments. The only pertinent scripture is 1 Cor 10:13 he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. I suffer a little. If anyone suffers more then me and yet remain faithful, they must surely love God more then me? My ''means'' is what I am suffering. My daily all encompassing trials and tribulations. Health, work, family, friends, food, savings, car problems...God can and will use any and all to test us. Which is why Paul says Phil 4:7 And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus. IE When it is normal / expected for one to not be at peace, a Christian can be at peace.

 

[Christ4Ever]

Dear Brother,
I think part of the issue is semantics. Most look at it as either God healed Paul or He did not. Not looking to the reason why a healing did not happen

Healed from what?
There was nothing to be healed from.

Agreed with "Healed from what?" I disagree with "There was nothing to be healed from.". So, what is there about Paul that would have required healing? I don't profess as some do to know what exactly there was about Paul that required his writing of it in his letter to the church at Corinth. Yet there was something or he'd not of written of it.

Paul's own words we come to understand this (2 Corinthians 12). That it was to save him from himself.

No Sir that is not correct.
Paul never made such claim but people do.

Dear Brother,
What do you think Paul meant by this that he said it twice in the same sentence (emphasis mine): [2Co 12:7 KJV] 7 And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.

G5229 - hyperairō

1. I - to lift or raise up over some thing
2. II - to lift one's self up, be exalted, be haughty
3. III - to carry one's self haughtily to, behave insolently towards one

Is not "haughty" related to "pride"? Is this not a sickness of character? Probably even more destructive then a physical aliment?

Paul was humble, and most diffidently not prideful, so, he understood why he was given the thorn in the flesh. Doesn't take much for any man to fall into this. Pharisees & Scribes that Jesus spoke of fell into this trap. We see it quite frequently in our televangelist. That is why Paul wrote to the church in Corinth (1 Corinthians 2:2) that he determined to know nothing except Jesus Christ and Him crucified. Knowing that speech and wisdom coming from him to them would make the focus him and not Christ. In Spirit and power, the power of God is where they needed to be looking to, not the mortal man!

Think of what happened to Paul as he having received a flue shot. You are given what when you receive these shots? An inactive type of the disease itself in order to combat it later should it rear its ugly head naturally. The analogy is kind of rough, but I think you should be able to get the gist of it. I'm curious on your reaction to this. I'm sure you'll let me know! LOL Love you Bro!

With the Love of Christ Jesus Dear Brother.
YBIC
Nick
<><

 

[Bendito]

Dear Brother,
What do you think Paul meant by this that he said it twice in the same sentence (emphasis mine): [2Co 12:7 KJV] 7 And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.

G5229 - hyperairō

1. I - to lift or raise up over some thing
2. II - to lift one's self up, be exalted, be haughty
3. III - to carry one's self haughtily to, behave insolently towards one

Is not "haughty" related to "pride"? Is this not a sickness of character? Probably even more destructive then a physical aliment?

Paul was humble, and most diffidently not prideful, so, he understood why he was given the thorn in the flesh. Doesn't take much for any man to fall into this. Pharisees & Scribes that Jesus spoke of fell into this trap. We see it quite frequently in our televangelist. That is why Paul wrote to the church in Corinth (1 Corinthians 2:2) that he determined to know nothing except Jesus Christ and Him crucified. Knowing that speech and wisdom coming from him to them would make the focus him and not Christ. In Spirit and power, the power of God is where they needed to be looking to, not the mortal man!

Think of what happened to Paul as he having received a flue shot. You are given what when you receive these shots? An inactive type of the disease itself in order to combat it later should it rear its ugly head naturally. The analogy is kind of rough, but I think you should be able to get the gist of it. :smile: I'm curious on your reaction to this. I'm sure you'll let me know! LOL Love you Bro!

With the Love of Christ Jesus Dear Brother.
YBIC
Nick
<><

Now why would you blame God for a messenger sent from Satan to buffet (beat on ) Paul? god is not the tempter, He is not the one who makes one sick. He is not a torturer. Satan is...Satan sent the messenger against Paul because God was showing Paul all sorts of cool stuff and Satan did not want Paul to be built up by it. He did not want Paul to be exalted in any way by God. That's what the verses say! Read them...Oh how Satan loves to sow confusion into the church! And all we have to do is put our opinions as less than Gods Word...Instead we put our own opinions as more worthy than the Word. Sad!

 

[Fragrant Grace]

These people you mentioned, they served God with ailments

Yes I agree @KingJ ......and their beautiful testimonies show they have/had great faith in their Lord and Saviour.

 

[Quantrill]

Now why would you blame God for a messenger sent from Satan to buffet (beat on ) Paul? god is not the tempter, He is not the one who makes one sick. He is not a torturer. Satan is...Satan sent the messenger against Paul because God was showing Paul all sorts of cool stuff and Satan did not want Paul to be built up by it. He did not want Paul to be exalted in any way by God. That's what the verses say! Read them...Oh how Satan loves to sow confusion into the church! And all we have to do is put our opinions as less than Gods Word...Instead we put our own opinions as more worthy than the Word. Sad!

Why would Paul glory in this infirmity if it was not from God? (2 Cor. 12:9) Does Paul glory in that which satan sent? Why does Paul glory in the work of satan? What made satan was this very thing. Pride in who he was. satan wants man to be exahalted above measure...to be guilty of his sin against God.

Why would Paul glory in this infirmity which results in the power of Christ resting upon him, (2Cor. 12:9), if it was not from God. God sent satan to give Paul this infirmity. satan doesn't do it because he is interested in doing God's work. He doesn't have much say in the matter. His motive is to try and hinder Paul and destroy Paul. But it doesn't matter, God's motive and will prevails.

Stranger

 

[Bendito]

Why would Paul glory in this infirmity if it was not from God? (1 Cor. 12:9) Does Paul glory in that which satan sent? Why does Paul glory in the work of satan? What made satan was this very thing. Pride in who he was. satan wants man to be exahalted above measure...to be guilty of his sin against God.

Why would Paul glory in this infirmity which results in the power of Christ resting upon him, (1Cor. 12:9), if it was not from God. God sent satan to give Paul this infirmity. satan doesn't do it because he is interested in doing God's work. He doesn't have much say in the matter. His motive is to try and hinder Paul and destroy Paul. But it doesn't matter, God's motive and will prevails.

Stranger

Paul would glory in his weakness because he would get to see God be strong for him. Why else? Methinks you listen to too much religious garbage.

 

[Quantrill]

Paul would glory in his weakness because he would get to see God be strong for him. Why else? Methinks you listen to too much religious garbage.

Thats right. Because that was the purpose God sent it. "And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure."

Paul glories in it because it is from God. He would not glory in it if it was from satan.

Just like God thwarts the danger of Paul being guilty of the same sin as satan was, so the Church should always be on guard of the same. Thus those in leadership roles should never be a novice. (1 Tim. 3:6) "Not a novice, lest being lifed up with pride, he fall into the condemnation of the devil."

You however present satan casting out satan. A house divided. satans nature is pride and he wants to create pride in the believer, or anyone else. he is not interested in stopping the elevation of the believer. he knows it will destroy him. Thus God provides the 'thorn in the flesh'. Of which there is no healing. It serves the purpose of God.

Quantrill

 

[Christ4Ever]

Now why would you blame God for a messenger sent from Satan to buffet (beat on ) Paul? god is not the tempter, He is not the one who makes one sick. He is not a torturer. Satan is...Satan sent the messenger against Paul because God was showing Paul all sorts of cool stuff and Satan did not want Paul to be built up by it. He did not want Paul to be exalted in any way by God. That's what the verses say! Read them...Oh how Satan loves to sow confusion into the church! And all we have to do is put our opinions as less than Gods Word...Instead we put our own opinions as more worthy than the Word. Sad!

Hello Dear Brother,
And God allowed this to happen, why? It served His purpose! Is another reason needed?
Satan does not need a reason to come against man brother, his hate is evident. If God did not limit what was to happen, not only to Paul, but to all of us. We'd be dead by his hand.

(Heavy sigh) Do you blame the parent for correcting a child? When the parent institutes corrective measures so that something worse does not happen? Are they the parents to blame for loving them so much that though pain may result from it, they still do what is necessary because they know that there is greater pain that can result if they do nothing? The latter being self inflicted.

What do you see as a temptation? I do not see this that occurred to Paul, in anyway a temptation from God. If God allows for something to happen somehow you see it as Him being the purveyor of it? By the way you have stated "He did not want Paul to be exalted in any way" and you blame Satan rather then the nature of man which Paul knows all too well (Romans 7) the cause and the preventive medicine , the messenger God allowed to buffet his servant? Remember Romans 8:28! This is not talking about just the flowery, joyful things in life. Peter is also an example of this, as I'm sure each Apostle, and believer we know. We acknowledge that trials and tribulations are a way of life for us, and yet somehow we are to believe that God is all powerful, and yet is unable to prevent satan from doing what he wills as seen with Paul?

If it serves His purpose, He allows it. If it does not, He doesn't. Even satan is restricted from what he can do to man. He is not all powerful, but our God is!

Paul would glory in his weakness because he would get to see God be strong for him. Why else? Methinks you listen to too much religious garbage.

Temper your replies brother. Just because there is a disagreement does not mean it's comes by the way of "religious garbage". Not that I don't believe that there is as you would say garbage out there being taught. Yet, someone believing differently then you in something doesn't make them automatically a trash can.

Just keep in mind that God created evil, for it serves His purpose. (Isaiah 45:7)

You realize that what we're really talking about has to do with the question that everyone asks "Why do bad things happen to good people?".

I do love you brother, even though we may see a bit differently at times.

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
<><

 

[Bendito]

Thats right. Because that was the purpose God sent it. "And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure."

Paul glories in it because it is from God. He would not glory in it if it was from satan.

Just like God thwarts the danger of Paul being guilty of the same sin as satan was, so the Church should always be on guard of the same. Thus those in leadership roles should never be a novice. (1 Tim. 3:6) "Not a novice, lest being lifed up with pride, he fall into the condemnation of the devil."

You however present satan casting out satan. A house divided. satans nature is pride and he wants to create pride in the believer, or anyone else. he is not interested in stopping the elevation of the believer. he knows it will destroy him. Thus God provides the 'thorn in the flesh'. Of which there is no healing. It serves the purpose of God.

Quantrill

No Sir.....I did not say God puts that on anyone. Look...
James 1:13-15

13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:

14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.

15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

• Tempt means ... to try whether a thing can be done
  
  1. to attempt, endeavour
• to try, make trial of, test: for the purpose of ascertaining his quality, or what he thinks, or how he will behave himself
  
  1. in a good sense
  2. in a bad sense, to test one maliciously, craftily to put to the proof his feelings or judgments
  3. to try or test one's faith, virtue, character, by enticement to sin
     
     1. to solicit to sin, to tempt
        
        1. of the temptations of the devil
  4. after the OT usage
     
     1. of God: to inflict evils upon one in order to prove his character and the steadfastness of his faith
  5. God does NOT tempt any man! Satan does.
     John 10:10
     10 The thief comes only in order to steal, kill and destroy; I have come so that they may have life, life in its fullest measure.
     
     
  6. 
     
  7. I don't understand why Christians would rather slander God than read the Book and find out what God says and does. They favor satan and despise God.

 

[Bendito]

Hello Dear Brother,
And God allowed this to happen, why? It served His purpose! Is another reason needed?
Satan does not need a reason to come against man brother, his hate is evident. If God did not limit what was to happen, not only to Paul, but to all of us. We'd be dead by his hand.

(Heavy sigh) Do you blame the parent for correcting a child? When the parent institutes corrective measures so that something worse does not happen? Are they the parents to blame for loving them so much that though pain may result from it, they still do what is necessary because they know that there is greater pain that can result if they do nothing? The latter being self inflicted.

What do you see as a temptation? I do not see this that occurred to Paul, in anyway a temptation from God. If God allows for something to happen somehow you see it as Him being the purveyor of it? By the way you have stated "He did not want Paul to be exalted in any way" and you blame Satan rather then the nature of man which Paul knows all too well (Romans 7) the cause and the preventive medicine , the messenger God allowed to buffet his servant? Remember Romans 8:28! This is not talking about just the flowery, joyful things in life. Peter is also an example of this, as I'm sure each Apostle, and believer we know. We acknowledge that trials and tribulations are a way of life for us, and yet somehow we are to believe that God is all powerful, and yet is unable to prevent satan from doing what he wills as seen with Paul?

If it serves His purpose, He allows it. If it does not, He doesn't. Even satan is restricted from what he can do to man. He is not all powerful, but our God is!



Temper your replies brother. Just because there is a disagreement does not mean it's comes by the way of "religious garbage". Not that I don't believe that there is as you would say garbage out there being taught. Yet, someone believing differently then you in something doesn't make them automatically a trash can.

Just keep in mind that God created evil, for it serves His purpose. (Isaiah 45:7)

You realize that what we're really talking about has to do with the question that everyone asks "Why do bad things happen to good people?". :smile:

I do love you brother, even though we may see a bit differently at times.

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
<><

"And God allowed this to happen, why?" Nick God did not allow it to happen...Paul did.....Until God told him how to end it. We have dominion in the Earth, God does not..We reign and rule in the Earth...God does not. But thats another thread... What would be Gods purpose in beating on Paul? Really...If God did not want Paul to get all puffed up, all He would do is to show Paul less amazing stuff. Again Nick....This blaming, slandering of God is almost unbearable to me. Why do Christians blame God for Satans work then let Satan off the hook? Who's people are we anyway?!

 

[Dovegiven]

Greetings brothers @Bendito @Wired 4 Fishen @Quantrill @Christ4Ever @Dovegiven @Victor Van Heerden @KingJ and anyone I may have missed.

A question based on what some of you have said/suggested

Did the following people not reach out in faith and accept their healing?

Joni Eareckson Tada

Nick Vujicic

The late Fanny J Crosby

The late Charles Spurgeon

The late Charlotte Elliot

Is there any possibility that the Lord was able to work through their disbilities/ailments to bless them with a wonderful ministry or testimony?
(Please note I am not saying the Lord caused their issues)

Blessings grace and peace to you all.

I have to look at it according to what the Bible says first and above all rather than what people say about their sicknesses or experiences. Those can be encouraging and edifying, but they also can transmit hopelessness. It's just not good exegesis to take a tiny mention out of a passage to support a doctrine that isn't well supported throughout scripture. There's only one passage that clearly describes Paul as blinded, when he encountered Jesus, but he was healed of that. When he wrote his letters, he usually wrote lengthy ones that were not at all characteristic of letters in his era. It's difficult to imagine him wasting precious paper by writing in large text. I had an aunt who was too blind to read, but could write very well in normal text size and with horizontal lines. I've tried that and can do it. Try it, then try with super large text size. You should learn quickly that your writing style is habitual. But if you rarely write there might be a problem writing well enough for anyone to read it.

Paul had good enough eyesight to help Aquilla and Priscilla make tents.

I have yet to read where Jesus or any apostle desired anyone to remain sick so that God could be glorified. Jesus often offered healing and waited for agreement from the sick. I do see where some people were born defectively, but their situation was held towards eventual glorification of God by their miraculous healing.

Jesus didn't fail to heal any who came to His presence. Yes, Jesus couldn't do many miracles in His own hometown, but that was because of their unbelief. It's amazing that some gentiles received what His home folks should have received. That even happened by way of a gentile's servants seeking out Jesus, finding Him, while God was healing back home.

I've witnessed live and experienced people dependent on wheelchairs/nursing homes/home health care, etc and most on welfare too fearful of being totally healed, but often do want some relief, such as reducing pain. It just isn't expected that those requests result in a partial healing they are willing to receive. I certainly understand why someone that's been out of the work force would be fearful of losing benefits. Of course we wouldn't upset an octogenerian patient with a scenario that would require going back to self support.

We have a friend who is totally blind but sings gospel well and plays multiple instruments, and can preach the gospel. He doesn't want to change anything, can't imagine not getting his benefit deposits, but is blessed to have someone drive him around. I've had several heart-to-heart discussions about it en route and am satisfied not to bring the issue up again with him. He's a blessing to many who don't even realize how blind he is. So sure, it makes sense for some to accept a disability that has opened up a ministry based on that disability. It's all based on choices, else the Bible contains major errors. People can adapt to great difficulty miraculously.

How many times was someone raised from their death bed after a man of God sent the unbelievers out?

Overall, the New Testament is filled with knowledge that God offers healing of body, soul and spirit, by grace through faith, and is not assigning some to suffer for His glory. He will let people live in their suffering, and will respond to faith with a suitable action demonstrating faith. I learn from scripture even unelievers can benefit from that body, soul and spirit.

I understand how believing for a miraculous health correction can be beyond a person's belief. This issue is really about choices made in the presence of the Lord. He offers, but we have to receive, as I also know God is not typically going about healing and saving people without their consent.

 

[Dovegiven]

"And God allowed this to happen, why?" Nick God did not allow it to happen...Paul did.....Until God told him how to end it. We have dominion in the Earth, God does not..We reign and rule in the Earth...God does not. But thats another thread... What would be Gods purpose in beating on Paul? Really...If God did not want Paul to get all puffed up, all He would do is to show Paul less amazing stuff. Again Nick....This blaming, slandering of God is almost unbearable to me. Why do Christians blame God for Satans work then let Satan off the hook? Who's people are we anyway?!

Agreed. The responisbility is on the Christian to submit to God, resist the devil, resulting in the devil fleeing from us. If we do that, God is able to intervene, defend, heal, restore what got ate up, whatever is good for us. Those lost can't experience that. They are the ones who might be expected to blame God for their problems, not really believing in God anyway, and for sure not believing there is a devil.

If God is pleased to allow a human to suffer while hoping for relief from a God who wants the suffering to continue so He can get glory out of one's pains, by a victim being remarkably happy, always smiling while gritting teeth while writhing in pain, then how could a parent be wrong to allow a child suffering from cancer to be denied treatment if it's available? It would not please God! A former mayor here has cancer, but you wouldn't guess it, as he jokes and laughs and is pleasant, glorifying God. Well, his wife finally asked for prayer to tolerate him at home where he lets his sufferings be well known to her. He can't contain it 24/7, refusing to bother God.

As for being puffed up, Paul explained that since he had probably received much more revelation of the word of God than we might say all the others combined, it would be tempting to be self exalted, puffed up. We see ministers sometimes doing that. But Paul received enough word to know to cast down such temptations, replacing those with amazing patience, selflessness, and devotion to the churches. Wherever he was on a journey he chose to work for his room and board, asking for contributions only for needs of the brethren he couldn't possibly provide out of his own labors.

 

[Quantrill]

No Sir.....I did not say God puts that on anyone. Look...
James 1:13-15

13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:

14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.

15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

• Tempt means ... to try whether a thing can be done
  
  1. to attempt, endeavour
• to try, make trial of, test: for the purpose of ascertaining his quality, or what he thinks, or how he will behave himself
  
  1. in a good sense
  2. in a bad sense, to test one maliciously, craftily to put to the proof his feelings or judgments
  3. to try or test one's faith, virtue, character, by enticement to sin
     
     1. to solicit to sin, to tempt
        
        1. of the temptations of the devil
  4. after the OT usage
     
     1. of God: to inflict evils upon one in order to prove his character and the steadfastness of his faith
  5. God does NOT tempt any man! Satan does.
     John 10:10
     10 The thief comes only in order to steal, kill and destroy; I have come so that they may have life, life in its fullest measure.
     
     
  6. 
     
  7. I don't understand why Christians would rather slander God than read the Book and find out what God says and does. They favor satan and despise God.

I wasn't talking about temptation. I was talking about Paul's thorn in the flesh. The purpose of the thorn in the flesh was to keep Paul humble. It was not to test him. And it apparently worked very well.

Quantrill

 

[Dovegiven]

Hello Dear Brother,
And God allowed this to happen, why? It served His purpose! Is another reason needed?
Satan does not need a reason to come against man brother, his hate is evident. If God did not limit what was to happen, not only to Paul, but to all of us. We'd be dead by his hand.

(Heavy sigh) Do you blame the parent for correcting a child? When the parent institutes corrective measures so that something worse does not happen? Are they the parents to blame for loving them so much that though pain may result from it, they still do what is necessary because they know that there is greater pain that can result if they do nothing? The latter being self inflicted.

What do you see as a temptation? I do not see this that occurred to Paul, in anyway a temptation from God. If God allows for something to happen somehow you see it as Him being the purveyor of it? By the way you have stated "He did not want Paul to be exalted in any way" and you blame Satan rather then the nature of man which Paul knows all too well (Romans 7) the cause and the preventive medicine , the messenger God allowed to buffet his servant? Remember Romans 8:28! This is not talking about just the flowery, joyful things in life. Peter is also an example of this, as I'm sure each Apostle, and believer we know. We acknowledge that trials and tribulations are a way of life for us, and yet somehow we are to believe that God is all powerful, and yet is unable to prevent satan from doing what he wills as seen with Paul?

If it serves His purpose, He allows it. If it does not, He doesn't. Even satan is restricted from what he can do to man. He is not all powerful, but our God is!



Temper your replies brother. Just because there is a disagreement does not mean it's comes by the way of "religious garbage". Not that I don't believe that there is as you would say garbage out there being taught. Yet, someone believing differently then you in something doesn't make them automatically a trash can.

Just keep in mind that God created evil, for it serves His purpose. (Isaiah 45:7)

You realize that what we're really talking about has to do with the question that everyone asks "Why do bad things happen to good people?". :smile:

I do love you brother, even though we may see a bit differently at times.

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
<><

It might seem like an insignificant comment, but Isa 45:7 has suffered way too much misinterpretation over the centuries, and is sometimes used in the line of this thread. The subject of verses 1-10 was a prophecy for Cyrus, who wasn't yet born, outlining an event two centuries to come. There was no mention of sin, but of kings and kingdoms to be weakened so they could be vanquished for the sake of Israel. The "evil" there is not the darkness of Satan, or even sin, but is more properly interpreted as "calamity" or "misery" by way of like the curses of the Law in the absence of blessings of the law of God, here more along the lines of God setting up that king above all others as sovereign concerning Israel, untouchable,and disastrous to many kingdoms who resisted. Nobody would be allowed to question Cyrus or God's intentions for him. Only hard times would fall for those resisting that king. Consequences were severe for many armies without God lifting a finger, for He anointed the man for that work, and blessed him with magnificent treasures of those fallen kingdoms.

The consequences of resisting wisdom, for instance, has a person suffering pain of sunburn for being in the sun too long. God doesn't have to create pain or sun damage. It is simply a consequence of bad choice concerning His creation, how things work.

Let me point out that God did not create lying. Satan is the father of that.
John 8:44-45 (KJV)
44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.

If not that, what prevents Satan from having introduced other evils as though a creator, sharing in the Creation? I don't see evidence Satan got his ideas from holy God, while God is the father of truth. People often believe Satan's lies while ignoring the known truth. Resisting God leaves only misery behind without misery having to be created. The sun puts light on surfaces, while wherever light is blocked reigns darkness. Darkness is simply absence of light. God perhaps began creation by creating literal darkness until making the sun.

No military accepts disabled candidates for uniformed service. God can use the disabled in ministry like disabled ivilians can find employment with the government. They need a reqired skill, while God provides a calling and anointing. But our God is not part of making or keeping a person in torture or misery so they can be used. He can at least equally use a fit person, and is delighted to be part of healing folks to be better able to serve.

Again, God is not expected to say "No" to healing. Jesus didn't do that. He was and is "Yea". The problem is with those needing healing, though the sick may in fact have come to a point there is no problem with their disability, so will not expect healing for themselves, but can delight in the healing and salvation of others, seeing their disability opens up connections to others suffering. In that way God can receive glory from unhealed ministers.

Lastly, I see comments in the groups and in books that the lack of documentation of miraculous healing in the majority of time since the First Church days indicates healing passed away with the apostles. What really happened was a deep void of knowledge of scriptures prevailed. Priests had control of what congregations could learn. Teaching faith was not one of their favorite subjects. They kept believers even ignorant of what made them believers. Believing for miracles was not known through the Middle Ages until people began to have access to Bibles and accountability of the clergy.

 

[Bendito]

I wasn't talking about temptation. I was talking about Paul's thorn in the flesh. The purpose of the thorn in the flesh was to keep Paul humble. It was not to test him. And it apparently worked very well.

Quantrill

You know? I am sure I gave you the definition of tempted, temptation....I guess it wasn't in English Or maybe I used invisible ink? LOL Actually, my friend, if you'll read my post above, you'll see that temptation is not just seducing someone to sin.