Will people go to hell? What does the Bible say?

[Brother-Paul]

@B-A-C

Greetings brother,

If the tree of life is in Paradise and the tree of life comes down from heaven onto the new earth, Paradise surely has to be in the Current Heaven.

As the first heaven is the earth's atmosphere and the second is space, which man and sin has access to, then Paradise has to be in the Current Heaven.

Would you not agree brother?

 

[B-A-C]

We could take this little further. The tree of life was once in Eden. But where is it now?

Rev 21:10; And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great and high mountain, and showed me the holy city, Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God,

(Verses 11 through 26 are basically a description of this place)

Rev 22:1; Then he showed me a river of the water of life, clear as crystal, coming from the throne of God and of the Lamb,
Rev 22:2; in the middle of its street. On either side of the river was the tree of life, bearing twelve kinds of fruit, yielding its fruit every month; and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

Rev 2:7; 'He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes, I will grant to eat of the tree of life which is in the Paradise of God.'

... now back to our regularly scheduled diversion.

 

[B-A-C]

Paradise surely has to be in the Current Heaven.

You beat me to the punch. I tried to put a like on your post... but it doesn't let me for some reason... hmmm.

 

[Brother-Paul]

What.... no likely? LOL

So you likely to agree, me too.

Bless you

 

[Butch5]

.

 

[Brother-Paul]

.

Ermmm

It is advent brother, but the star was in the east not the west.

May not make sense to those without a dark screen

;-)

 

[Butch5]

Ermmm

It is advent brother, but the star was in the east not the west.

May not make sense to those without a dark screen

;-)

Lol. I was literally laughing out load. That was funny.

 

[Wnl]

Hi All, ORIGIN OF THE WORD BRIMSTONE. and SPIRITUAL FIRE.

Strong Greek Dictionary of the New Testament, brimstone,
2303 Theion, originally denoted. "Fire from Heaven "
and comes from the Greek word. Theios 2304 Which means,

Devine, and is used of the POWER OF GOD, (2. Pet. 1:3)
and of His (Gods) nature (2. pet. 1:4) both of which proceed
from Himself.

So why is there brimstone in the lake of fire?
BECAUSE GOD ALMIGHTY IS IN THIS HIMSELF, IS IN THIS FIRE.
God is this fire, this spiritual, CONSUMING FIRE ( Heb. 12:29.
This fire is not only spiritual, it is DEVINE.
The lake of fire, spiritual fire, from God out of Heaven,
To purge, purify, cleanse, and heal all impurities of all humanity.

All mankind will ultimately be saved, by spiritual fire.

Every mans work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it
because it shall be revealed by FIRE ( God Devine spiritual fire) Heb
. 12:29
And the fire shall try every mans work of what sort it is.
If any mans work abide which he has built there upon, he shall receive a
reward.
If any mans work shall be BURNED, he shall suffer loss, but
HE HIMSELF SHALL BE SAVED, YET SO AS BY FIRE (Cor, 3: 13-15)

Just as there are properties of fire that God wants us to understand in
the spiritual.
There are properties of brimstone that God wants us to understand
in the spiritual
Can we agree that GOD IS SPIRIT and all that He is building and creating
is SPIRITUAL.
We will have SPIRITUAL bodies, we are SPIRITUAL temples
We are to produce SPIRITUAL fruit
We will live in SPIRITUAL Jerusalem in SPIRITUAL Zion
in SPIRITUAL Heaven, as members of a SPIRITUAL kingdom.
Headed by a SPIRITUAL GOD,
The physical and natural will all pass away.
Hope you find this post interesting to the degree that you may wonder
and study for yourself what I have written.

With Love, Wnl

 

[KingJ]

Where is it in the Bible?

Yeah, I'm familiar with John 17 and Jesus' prayer. And they will be with Him just as He said,

And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also. (Jn. 14:3 KJV)

Jesus is.....seated next to the right hand of God.....so if God is in heaven....well more like where God is is heaven.....Jesus is next to Him.....IE heaven......where He is we will be also....IE heaven. DUH???

Remember, He told His disciples that if He went away, He would come back so that they could be with Him.

''I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also'' He received us unto Himself, SO THAT WHERE HE IS WE CAN BE ALSO. That is NOT '''he comes back to be with us''. Is English not for your first language?

 

[Sue D.]

God Is Spirit -- yes.

You're suggesting 'universalism' ? IF that were the case -- that Everyone will ultimately saved by spiritual fire -- then why have the cross of Calvary. Sounds kind of like everyone will go through purgatory and end up in heaven. Which would suggest that everyone's attempt At 'good works' will be helpful to them. Which is contrary to Scripture. Other than That. ......

 

[KingJ]

I'm not trolling. I'm simply reading what is in the text. I'm not inferring or assuming things. Can you see why Christianity is the way it is today? People just read whatever they want to read into the Scriptures. It's just like the passage in John 14 about going to Heaven. Jesus plainly stated in chapter 13 that they couldn't go where He was going and yet person after person tries to explain it to mean anything other than what it says. This is a form of translator bias that I spoke of. People interpret the Scriptures according to what they believe. In the passage I posted David said he saw the wicked in great power but then he was no more. He didn't say his legacy was no more. He said "he" was no more.

35 I have seen the wicked in great power, And spreading himself like a native green tree.
36 Yet he passed away1, and behold, he was no more; Indeed I sought him, but he could not be found. (Ps. 37:35-36 NKJ)

There's nothing there about his legacy. "He" indicates person. It's a masculine personal pronoun. If it was talking about his legacy it would say "it" was no more.

Seriously?

The wicked.....in GREAT POWER....SPREAD HIMSELF = Great wicked person spreading their wickedness / reputation / influence / legacy. This is primary school reading skills. You ARE trolling.

 

[Butch5]

Jesus is.....seated next to the right hand of God.....so if God is in heaven....well more like where God is is heaven.....Jesus is next to Him.....IE heaven......where He is we will be also....IE heaven. DUH???

''I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also'' He received us unto Himself, SO THAT WHERE HE IS WE CAN BE ALSO. That is NOT '''he comes back to be with us''. Is English not for your first language?

And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and will take you to myself, that where I am you may be also.

 

[B-A-C]

You're suggesting 'universalism' ? IF that were the case -- that Everyone will ultimately saved by spiritual fire -- then why have the cross of Calvary. Sounds kind of like everyone will go through purgatory and end up in heaven. Which would suggest that everyone's attempt At 'good works' will be helpful to them. Which is contrary to Scripture. Other than That. ......

Another Mormon teaching. Although they don't call it that.

Mormon Plan of Salvation - NAMB

 

[Br. Bear]

Paradise translated is garden or park, as the Garden of Eden. We would expect trees in both of these, as is confirmed in Genesis and in Revelation.



I have to agree with @Butch5 here sister, OT understanding refers back to Abraham in which the Jewish faith and Israel was built.

Luke 23:43 (NKJV)
43 And Jesus said to him, "Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise."

Greek Strong's Number: 3857
Greek Word: παράδεισος
Transliteration: paradeisos
Phonetic Pronunciation:par-ad'-i-sos
Root: of Oriental origin cf , <H6508>
Cross Reference: TDNT - 5:765,777
Vine's Words: Paradise
English Words used in KJV:
paradise 3
[Total Count: 3]
of Oriental origin [compare <H6508> (pardec)]; a park, i.e. (special) an Eden (place of future happiness, “paradise”) :- paradise.
Strong's Talking Greek & Hebrew Dictionary.


Hebrew Strong's Number: 6508
Hebrew Word: ‏פַּרְדֵּס‎
Transliteration: pardēs
Phonetic Pronunciation:par-dace'
Root: of foreign origin, Greek <G3857>
Vine's Words: None
English Words used in KJV:
orchard 2
forest 1
[Total Count: 3]
of foreign origin; a park :- forest, orchard.
Strong's Talking Greek & Hebrew Dictionary.

The Greek word Jesus used translates as garden or park

The Hebrew word used translates as a park (large garden) with trees.

It is interesting here, I think, how little the word Paradise is used in both the OT and the NT, but the meaning is the same.

The question I feel this leaves us is, where is Paradise? It is in the 'Current' Heaven, with the Tree of Life, none of which we will see until we are with our Lord.

Then aren't you Also suggesting that Hades and Paradise never existed, either? And I'd agree that in that culture -- the bosom of Abraham was a place of rest for those people. Father Abraham. Maybe the title of Abraham's bosom is figurative so that the people could understand it -- but the existence of Hades(hell) and Paradise were very real places. The Jesus Christ emptied Paradise of all the righteous when He came back and was resurrected, Himself.

Nothing says that Paradise wasn't a beautiful place of fruits and other trees just like the Garden of Eden was.

Does it really matter Where Paradise was ? Since it no longer exists. "Paradise" is where ever Jesus Christ is. And Jesus Christ is in heaven preparing a place for us -- that will be brought down to earth from heaven by God. And That will be for eternity.

2 Cor 12:2; I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago—whether in the body I do not know, or out of the body I do not know, God knows—such a man was caught up to the third heaven.
2 Cor 12:3; And I know how such a man—whether in the body or apart from the body I do not know, God knows—
2 Cor 12:4; was caught up into Paradise and heard inexpressible words, which a man is not permitted to speak.

Is the third heaven Paradise?

Rev 2:7; 'He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes, I will grant to eat of the tree of life which is in the Paradise of God.'

Luke 23:43; And He said to him, "Truly I say to you, today you shall be with Me in Paradise."

Now... what this has to do with people going to hell, I don't know.

par-ad'-i-sos
Of Oriental origin (compare [H6508]); a park, that is, (specifically) an Eden (place of future happiness, “paradise”): - paradise.

This word does not occur in the old testament. (Not even in Genesis) but I notice iin the greek definition... it doesn't say "the" Eden.
it says .."an" Eden... meaning a place "like" Eden.

Greetings,

i know this is still a bit off topic, but....

I am reminded that when Mary was looking for the Lord at the tomb, she saw and spoke to One she thought was the Gardener.


Then the disciples returned to their homes. But Mary stood outside the tomb weeping. And as she wept, she bent down to look into the tomb, and she saw two angels in white sitting where the body of Jesus had lain, one at the head and the other at the feet.

“Woman, why are you weeping?” they asked.

“Because they have taken my Lord away,” she said, “and I do not know where they have put Him.”

When she had said this, she turned around and saw Jesus standing there; but she did not recognize that it was Jesus.

“Woman, why are you weeping?” Jesus asked. “Whom are you seeking?”

Thinking He was the gardener, she said, “Sir, if you have carried Him off, tell me where you have put Him, and I will get Him.”

Jesus said to her, “Mary.”

She turned and said to Him in Aramaic,a “Rabboni!” (which means “Teacher”).

“Do not cling to Me,” Jesus said, “for I have not yet ascended to the Father. But go and tell My brothers, ‘I am ascending to My Father and your Father, to My God and your God.’”

Mary Magdalene went and announced to the disciples, “I have seen the Lord!” And she told them what He had said to her.
John 20:10-18


Bless you ....><>

 

[Hekuran]

Further off topic. Just spotted the link in the above passage to genesis 2.15 ... Jesus is taken from a gardener. He's the New Adam! First fruits of the new creation.

 

[Sue D.]

Hmmm -- the man was Adam in the garden Not Jesus Christ. "The Lord God took the man and put him in the garden of Eden to it and keep it " That was Adam.

Jesus Christ didn't come on the scene until the New Testament when He was born.

 

[KingJ]

And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and will take you to myself, that where I am you may be also.

Take you to myself, that where I am you may be also

Not

Take me to yourself, that where you are I may be also

You are literally interpreting it 100% in the opposite direction.

 

[Butch5]

Take you to myself, that where I am you may be also

Not

Take me to yourself, that where you are I may be also

You are literally interpreting it 100% in the opposite direction.

He said, if I go and prepare a place for you I will come again and receive you unto myself that where I am you may be also.

If He comes back so that they can be with Him, where will He back? He comes back. He didnt say they would go to Him. He said He would come back to them.

 

[Sue D.]

John 14:3 " And if I go and prepare a place for you. I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am there you maybe also."

that is what Butch5 said. --will take you to myself instead of receive you to Myself.

 

[Sue D.]

vs 2 says "In My Father's house are many mansions, If it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

vs 3 is referring back To the comments in vs 2 -- I Will go ---- at the time of the rapture , He will come and catch up born-again believers in the sky to take us Up -- He won't be coming all the way down to the earth.

And Jesus Christ will also come back down to this earth for His 1,000 yr reign here on earth.