Christians and the Tribulation

[Admon Mikha'el]

Not saying you are wrong, but I was thinking the Holy Spirit, not the internal one, but the Holy Spirit which convicts sinners of thier sins. The main job of the Holy Spirit, conviction of us humans. I see the Holy Spirit as that which restrains.

The bible says that a man cannot be saved without the Holy Spirit draws him.
The bible also says that people will be saved during the tribulation....
How do they get saved if the Holy Spirit is not there to draw them?

 

[Brad Huber]

The bible says that a man cannot be saved without the Holy Spirit draws him.
The bible also says that people will be saved during the tribulation....
How do they get saved if the Holy Spirit is not there to draw them?

The Holy Spirit will still be inside those saved who are here... witnessing until they die from witnessing.

 

[Curtis]

How do they get saved if the Holy Spirit is not there to draw them?

Since God is "omnipresent" there is nowhere in all of creation where he is not present. During the great tribulation the Holy Spirit will be present, but he will not be "inhibiting evil" as he was before the "restrainer" was taken out of the way.

 

[Hekuran]

Have a careful think. Consider the biblical evidence for a unique great tribulations event. The phrase only comes up once in the whole new testament.

In Revelation, "tribulation" is mentioned more in the first two chapters, describing the churches' immediate experience than elsewhere in the visions.

Tribulation Is a normal expectation for followers of Jesus in every place and age.

 

[Admon Mikha'el]

Since God is "omnipresent" there is nowhere in all of creation where he is not present. During the great tribulation the Holy Spirit will be present, but he will not be "inhibiting evil" as he was before the "restrainer" was taken out of the way.

I'll accept that....Not all Christians will go in the rapture so there will still be those left behind... But....The Holy Spirit still is not the restrainer...We are in control in the Earth...Not God The bride is the restrainer

 

[Admon Mikha'el]

Have a careful think. Consider the biblical evidence for a unique great tribulations event. The phrase only comes up once in the whole new testament.

In Revelation, "tribulation" is mentioned more in the first two chapters, describing the churches' immediate experience than elsewhere in the visions.

Tribulation Is a normal expectation for followers of Jesus in every place and age.

Mr Hekuran You need to dig deeper into this...Yes we suffer tribulation but the seven year tribulation is far beyond anything we have ever seen. Dig deeper

 

[Curtis]

I'll accept that....Not all Christians will go in the rapture so there will still be those left behind... But....The Holy Spirit still is not the restrainer...We are in control in the Earth...Not God The bride is the restrainer

1Co 3:9 For we are co-workers in God's service; you are God's field, God's building.

Man was given "authority" over all the "power" of the devil.

Jesus said......

Luk 10:19 Behold, I give you the authority to trample on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy, and nothing shall by any means hurt you.

Jesus gave his Church "authority" over all the "power" of our enemy, but "authority" is useless unless there is a power to back up that authority.

The Holy Spirit (who is God) is the power that backs up man's authority. God and man working together.

So when we say the "restrainer" is taken out of the way that means the Church who was given authority over the power of the devil stops working because the Church is no longer on the Earth. The Holy Spirit remains on earth but he stops inhibiting evil as he first did when the Church was still on earth. This is why the great tribulation will be really really bad for whoever is left here.

 

[Hekuran]

Mr Hekuran You need to dig deeper into this...Yes we suffer tribulation but the seven year tribulation is far beyond anything we have ever seen. Dig deeper

Which biblical texts are you looking at in which you see a future unique seven year tribulation event?

I've read all the key passages in Daniel, the gospels, Thessalonians and Revelation carefully and I don't see what you are seeing there.

 

[Hekuran]

Was Revelation written before or after the destruction of the temple in AD 70? - Christian Research Institute

www.equip.org

 

[Admon Mikha'el]

Which biblical texts are you looking at in which you see a future unique seven year tribulation event?

I've read all the key passages in Daniel, the gospels, Thessalonians and Revelation carefully and I don't see what you are seeing there.

Matthew 24:3-30
​

3 When he was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the talmidim came to him privately. “Tell us,” they said, “when will these things happen? And what will be the sign that you are coming, and that the ‘olam hazeh is ending?”​

(We see this now)
4 Yeshua replied: “Watch out! Don’t let anyone fool you! 5 For many will come in my name, saying, ‘I am the Messiah!’ and they will lead many astray. 6 You will hear the noise of wars nearby and the news of wars far off; see to it that you don’t become frightened. Such things must happen, but the end is yet to come. 7 For peoples will fight each other, nations will fight each other, and there will be famines and earthquakes in various parts of the world; 8 all this is but the beginning of the ‘birth-pains.’

(This happens at the first half of tribulation)

9 At that time you will be arrested and handed over to be punished and put to death, and all peoples will hate you because of me. 10 At that time many will be trapped into betraying and hating each other, 11 many false prophets will appear and fool many people; 12 and many people’s love will grow cold because of increased distance from Torah. 13 But whoever holds out till the end will be delivered. 14 And this Good News about the Kingdom will be announced throughout the whole world as a witness to all the Goyim. It is then that the end will come.


(This is the second half of tribulation)

15 “So when you see the abomination that causes devastation spoken about through the prophet Dani’el standing in the Holy Place”[a] (let the reader understand the allusion), 16 “that will be the time for those in Y’hudah to escape to the hills. 17 If someone is on the roof, he must not go down to gather his belongings from his house; 18 if someone is in the field, he must not turn back to get his coat. 19 What a terrible time it will be for pregnant women and nursing mothers! 20 Pray that you will not have to escape in winter or on Shabbat. 21 For there will be trouble then worse than there has ever been from the beginning of the world until now, and there will be nothing like it again![b] 22 Indeed, if the length of this time had not been limited, no one would survive; but for the sake of those who have been chosen, its length will be limited.


(This is what Jesus says about that time, and the second coming)
23 “At that time, if someone says to you, ‘Look! Here’s the Messiah!’ or, ‘There he is!’ don’t believe him. 24 For there will appear false Messiahs and false prophets performing great miracles — amazing things! — so as to fool even the chosen, if possible. 25 There! I have told you in advance! 26 So if people say to you, ‘Listen! He’s out in the desert!’ don’t go; or, ‘Look! He’s hidden away in a secret room!’ don’t believe it. 27 For when the Son of Man does come, it will be like lightning that flashes out of the east and fills the sky to the western horizon. 28 Wherever there’s a dead body, that’s where you find the vultures.

29 “But immediately following the trouble of those times,
the sun will grow dark,
the moon will stop shining,[c]
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the powers in heaven will be shaken. [d]

30 “Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, all the tribes of the Land will mourn,[e] and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with tremendous power and glory.[f]


Now, sir....I've suggested that you dig deeper into the subject....I will do no more for you. I have given you a place to start. You will learn only by doing your own digging. Don't forget to trust the Holy Spirit to open the Word to you. Enjoy

 

[Hekuran]

Matthew 24:3-30
​

3 When he was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the talmidim came to him privately. “Tell us,” they said, “when will these things happen? And what will be the sign that you are coming, and that the ‘olam hazeh is ending?”​

(We see this now)
4 Yeshua replied: “Watch out! Don’t let anyone fool you! 5 For many will come in my name, saying, ‘I am the Messiah!’ and they will lead many astray. 6 You will hear the noise of wars nearby and the news of wars far off; see to it that you don’t become frightened. Such things must happen, but the end is yet to come. 7 For peoples will fight each other, nations will fight each other, and there will be famines and earthquakes in various parts of the world; 8 all this is but the beginning of the ‘birth-pains.’

(This happens at the first half of tribulation)

9 At that time you will be arrested and handed over to be punished and put to death, and all peoples will hate you because of me. 10 At that time many will be trapped into betraying and hating each other, 11 many false prophets will appear and fool many people; 12 and many people’s love will grow cold because of increased distance from Torah. 13 But whoever holds out till the end will be delivered. 14 And this Good News about the Kingdom will be announced throughout the whole world as a witness to all the Goyim. It is then that the end will come.


(This is the second half of tribulation)

15 “So when you see the abomination that causes devastation spoken about through the prophet Dani’el standing in the Holy Place”[a] (let the reader understand the allusion), 16 “that will be the time for those in Y’hudah to escape to the hills. 17 If someone is on the roof, he must not go down to gather his belongings from his house; 18 if someone is in the field, he must not turn back to get his coat. 19 What a terrible time it will be for pregnant women and nursing mothers! 20 Pray that you will not have to escape in winter or on Shabbat. 21 For there will be trouble then worse than there has ever been from the beginning of the world until now, and there will be nothing like it again![b] 22 Indeed, if the length of this time had not been limited, no one would survive; but for the sake of those who have been chosen, its length will be limited.


(This is what Jesus says about that time, and the second coming)
23 “At that time, if someone says to you, ‘Look! Here’s the Messiah!’ or, ‘There he is!’ don’t believe him. 24 For there will appear false Messiahs and false prophets performing great miracles — amazing things! — so as to fool even the chosen, if possible. 25 There! I have told you in advance! 26 So if people say to you, ‘Listen! He’s out in the desert!’ don’t go; or, ‘Look! He’s hidden away in a secret room!’ don’t believe it. 27 For when the Son of Man does come, it will be like lightning that flashes out of the east and fills the sky to the western horizon. 28 Wherever there’s a dead body, that’s where you find the vultures.

29 “But immediately following the trouble of those times,
the sun will grow dark,
the moon will stop shining,[c]
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the powers in heaven will be shaken. [d]

30 “Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, all the tribes of the Land will mourn,[e] and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with tremendous power and glory.[f]


Now, sir....I've suggested that you dig deeper into the subject....I will do no more for you. I have given you a place to start. You will learn only by doing your own digging. Don't forget to trust the Holy Spirit to open the Word to you. Enjoy

I don't find this convincing evidence for a unique tribulation event.

Here Jesus is talking directly to his disciples about what they will see and hear. He tells them what to do (flee from Judah to the hills).

The reference to the abomination that causes desolation in the holy place is to the temple.

Jesus is very, very clearly telling his disciples to be ready for Jerusalem to be overtaken and the temple destroyed. It happened in 70ad, within a generation, just as he said.

Yes, modern readers need to be sensitive to the ancient literary conventions that Jesus used: images such as stars falling from the sky were part of the style of Old Testament prophets.

But this way of reading Matthew 24 has far, far fewer problems than seeing it as a far distant event.

 

[Admon Mikha'el]

I don't find this convincing evidence for a unique tribulation event.

Here Jesus is talking directly to his disciples about what they will see and hear. He tells them what to do (flee from Judah to the hills).

The reference to the abomination that causes desolation in the holy place is to the temple.

Jesus is very, very clearly telling his disciples to be ready for Jerusalem to be overtaken and the temple destroyed. It happened in 70ad, within a generation, just as he said.

Yes, modern readers need to be sensitive to the ancient literary conventions that Jesus used: images such as stars falling from the sky were part of the style of Old Testament prophets.

But this way of reading Matthew 24 has far, far fewer problems than seeing it as a far distant event.

Look at vs 21 That is a unique event....Trouble like you've never seen and never will again? Sounds unique to me.....Is it possible that you do not see it because you do not want to see it?

 

[Hekuran]

Look at vs 21 That is a unique event....Trouble like you've never seen and never will again? Sounds unique to me.....Is it possible that you do not see it because you do not want to see it?

Yes, I addressed that in post 74

Christians and the Tribulation

The entire purpose of the Great Tribulation is to bring Israel to Christ. Jer 30:7 In all history there has never been such a time of terror. It will be a time of trouble for my people Israel. Yet in the end they will be saved! (NLT)

www.talkjesus.com

It's a far easier problem to resolve than the question of how to see an abomination in the holy place long after the temple is destroyed.

 

[Admon Mikha'el]

Yes, I addressed that in post 74

Christians and the Tribulation

The entire purpose of the Great Tribulation is to bring Israel to Christ. Jer 30:7 In all history there has never been such a time of terror. It will be a time of trouble for my people Israel. Yet in the end they will be saved! (NLT)

www.talkjesus.com

It's a far easier problem to resolve than the question of how to see an abomination in the holy place long after the temple is destroyed.

Ah? When the man of sin (the antichrist) comes into power, he makes a covenant with the Jews that they can rebuild the temple and resume the sacrifices....Its not the old temple that was destroyed but instead its the third temple...the one they are talking about today

2 Thess 2:3-4
But in connection with the coming of our Lord Yeshua the Messiah and our gathering together to meet him, we ask you, brothers, 2 not to be easily shaken in your thinking or anxious because of a spirit or a spoken message or a letter supposedly from us claiming that the Day of the Lord has already come. 3 Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way.

For the Day will not come until after the Apostasy has come and the man who separates himself from Torah has been revealed, the one destined for doom. 4 He will oppose himself to everything that people call a god or make an object of worship; he will put himself above them all, so that he will sit in the Temple of God and proclaim that he himself is God.[a]

 

[Hekuran]

Ah? When the man of sin (the antichrist) comes into power, he makes a covenant with the Jews that they can rebuild the temple and resume the sacrifices....Its not the old temple that was destroyed but instead its the third temple...the one they are talking about today

And the references to this in the New Testament? Zero!

 

[B-A-C]

And the references to this in the New Testament? Zero!

Matt 24:15; "Therefore when you see the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand),

Jesus ties the abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel, to the abomination of desolation in Matt 24.

2Thes 2:1; Now we request you, brethren, with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him,
2Thes 2:2; that you not be quickly shaken from your composure or be disturbed either by a spirit or a message or a letter as if from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come.
2Thes 2:3; Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,
2Thes 2:4; who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God.
2Thes 2:5; Do you not remember that while I was still with you, I was telling you these things?
2Thes 2:6; And you know what restrains him now, so that in his time he will be revealed.
2Thes 2:7; For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only he who now restrains will do so until he is taken out of the way.
2Thes 2:8; Then that lawless one will be revealed whom the Lord will slay with the breath of His mouth and bring to an end by the appearance of His coming;
2Thes 2:9; that is, the one whose coming is in accord with the activity of Satan, with all power and signs and false wonders,
2Thes 2:10; and with all the deception of wickedness for those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth so as to be saved.
2Thes 2:11; For this reason God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they will believe what is false,
2Thes 2:12; in order that they all may be judged who did not believe the truth, but took pleasure in wickedness.

Verse 1 puts the context of this passage around "the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ" and "our gathering together to Him" ( the rapture )
Everything else that follows this, is in the context of this.

It says it won't happen until the great apostasy happens first. That didn't happen in 70ad. It says it won't happen until the man of lawlessness ( man of perdition ) is revealed.
The 2nd coming and rapture won't happen until these two things happen first.
When the beast ( man of lawlessness ) appears, he will sit in the temple. ( 2 Thes 2:4; )
Also when the beast is finally conquered, how is he conquered? The Lord ( Jesus ) will slay him with the breath of His mouth.... by the appearance of His coming.
The beast ( man of lawlessness ) will be killed by Jesus at His 2nd coming. ( 2 Thes 2:8; )

Jesus didn't come back in 70ad. He didn't kill any Roman emperor then. It can not be any Roman leader of 70ad period.

When was the temple in Jerusalem destoyed? - Temple in Jerusalem - Wikipedia according to most historians, it was 70ad.

When did the seige of Jersusalem start? - Wikiwand - Siege of Jerusalem (70 CE) it was also 70ad. The temple was destroyed the same year the Seige happened.

If we look at Daniel, the particular passage about the abomination of desolation Jesus was reffering to.

Dan 11:31; "Forces from him will arise, desecrate the sanctuary temple, and do away with the regular sacrifice. And they will set up the abomination of desolation.
Dan 11:32; "By smooth words he will turn to godlessness those who act wickedly toward the covenant, but the people who know their God will display strength and take action.
Dan 11:33; "Those who have insight among the people will give understanding to the many; yet they will fall by sword and by flame, by captivity and by plunder for many days.
Dan 11:34; "Now when they fall they will be granted a little help, and many will join with them in hypocrisy.
Dan 11:35; "Some of those who have insight will fall, in order to refine, purge and make them pure until the end time; because it is still to come at the appointed time.
Dan 11:36; "Then the king will do as he pleases, and he will exalt and magnify himself above every god and will speak monstrous things against the God of gods; and he will prosper until the indignation is finished, for that which is decreed will be done.

The person in Daniel will desecrate the temple. Do away with the regular sacrifice... and set up the abomination of desolation. This man will exalt himself above God ( just like 2 Thess 2:4; )

Dan 12:9; He said, "Go your way, Daniel, for these words are concealed and sealed up until the end time.
Dan 12:10; "Many will be purged, purified and refined, but the wicked will act wickedly; and none of the wicked will understand, but those who have insight will understand.
Dan 12:11; "From the time that the regular sacrifice is abolished and the abomination of desolation is set up, there will be 1,290 days.
Dan 12:12; "How blessed is he who keeps waiting and attains to the 1,335 days!
Dan 12:13; "But as for you, go your way to the end; then you will enter into rest and rise again for your allotted portion at the end of the age."

Daniel also says the abomination of desolation will be setup either after 1,290 days or for 1,290 days. In either case, this could not have happened in 70ad. The temple could not have been descrated for 1,290 days, because
it wasn't standing for 1.290 days after the seige began. In fact it wasn't even standing for 1 year after the seige began. ( 365 days ) So there is no way, this could be talking about 70ad.

Dan 11:35; and Dan 12:13; and Matt 24:3; says these things will happen at the end of time, the end of the age. 70ad was not the end of time, or even the end of the age.

Jesus didn't come back and kill Tius or Nero. The temple wasn't desecrated for 1.290 days. Satan hasn't been imprisoned for 1.000 years yet. None of this happened yet. OK, the temple may have been destroyed, but another temple
will have to be built in order to meet the requirements of Dan 11:31 and Dan 12:11. Not to mention 2Thess 2:4;

2Thes 2:3; Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,

It says here, don't let anyone deceive you. Titus could not be the man of lawlessness, it wasn't the end of the age, Jesus didn't return. Jesus didn't kill Titus, and the temple wasn't desecrated for 1.290 days.
There is simply no way it could have happened in 70ad.

Rev 13:4; they worshiped the dragon because he gave his authority to the beast; and they worshiped the beast, saying, "Who is like the beast, and who is able to wage war with him?"
Rev 13:5; There was given to him a mouth speaking arrogant words and blasphemies, and authority to act for forty-two months was given to him.
Rev 13:6; And he opened his mouth in blasphemies against God, to blaspheme His name and His tabernacle, that is, those who dwell in heaven.
Rev 13:7; It was also given to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them, and authority over every tribe and people and tongue and nation was given to him.

The beast will be in power for 42 months. Very close to the 1.290 days Daniel mentions.

 

[Admon Mikha'el]

And the references to this in the New Testament? Zero!

Sir, when you study ANY subject in the bible you will find references to it ALL THROUGH the bible....Read Daniel 9 .... God is talking about the tribulation here....It links with 2 Thes 2:3-4......Thats why I always say that one MUST study the Word under the tutelage of the Holy Spirit ... He will open it up to you....To study the Word intellectually is a total waste of time.

 

[Eddie Deepfield]

There has been a lot of debate about when the rapture is here on TalkJesus over the years. This is kind of related, but not necessarily.
Even if you believe in a "pre-trib" rapture, the fact remains there will be Christians that come out of the great tribulation. So maybe they got saved during the tribulation?
Either way, the Bible says at least some Christians will go through at least part of the tribulation.

Rev 7:9; After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could count, from every nation and all tribes and races of people and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, and palm branches were in their hands;
Rev 7:10; and they cry out with a loud voice, saying, "Salvation to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb."
Rev 7:11; And all the angels were standing around the throne and around the elders and the four living creatures; and they fell on their faces before the throne and worshiped God,
Rev 7:12; saying, "Amen, blessing and glory and wisdom and thanksgiving and honor and power and might, be to our God forever and ever. Amen."
Rev 7:13; Then one of the elders answered, saying to me, "These who are clothed in the white robes, who are they, and where have they come from?"
Rev 7:14; I said to him, "My lord, you know." And he said to me, "These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

It says here that people from every nation and race of people will come out of the great tribulation.

Matt 24:21; "For then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will.
Matt 24:22; "Unless those days had been cut short, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short.

Why are the "elect" still here, it seems at least some of the elect will go through the tribulation.
Mark say the same thing.

Mark 13:19; "For those days will be a time of tribulation such as has not occurred since the beginning of the creation which God created until now, and never will.
Mark 13:20; "Unless the Lord had shortened those days, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect, whom He chose, He shortened the days.

Rev 20:4; Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

Some Christians will be beheaded during the tribulation by the beast, "because of their testimony of Jesus".
For most Christians I have spoken to over the years, the rapture seems to be an all or none type of thing. Either everyone gets raptured, or no one does, but there is a third option I have also heard.
For example the church of Smyrna...

Rev 2:10; 'Do not fear what you are about to suffer. Behold, the devil is about to cast some of you into prison, so that you will be tested, and you will have tribulation for ten days. Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life.

This church will face tribulation for at least "10 days" ( whether that is figurative, or literal remains unknown ). But yet the church of Philadelphia is told...
Rev 3:10; 'Because you have kept the word of My perseverance, I also will keep you from the hour of testing, that hour which is about to come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth.

So which is it? All get tested, none get tested, or some get tested and some don't?
Daniel says...

Dan 12:10; "Many will be purged, purified and refined, but the wicked will act wickedly; and none of the wicked will understand, but those who have insight will understand.
Dan 12:11; "From the time that the regular sacrifice is abolished and the abomination of desolation is set up, there will be 1,290 days.

During the time of the abomination of desolation, "Many will be ... purified and refined". Surely this is speaking of believing Christians. I don't believe non-believers can be purified.

Daniel also says...

Dan 7:21; "I kept looking, and that horn was waging war with the saints and overpowering them

The beast is fighting with the saints and "overpowering" them. Is this a physical death, a spiritual death. This also is unknown. John says the same thing in Revelation.

Rev 13:7; It was also given to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them, and authority over every tribe and race of people and tongue and nation was given to him.

Why are the saints still here when the beast takes over? Maybe these are those who get saved during the tribulation, but even so, they are there.

There is more... but this is a pretty good start. Who are the Christians who go through the tribulation?

No Christian who is rapture ready will go through the Great Tribulation which has been traditionally linked to the last three and a half years.

When the Wrath of God is poured out on the earth and all its living inhabitants.

We know this because of Christs atonement. The Wrath of God has already been poured out on Christ - therefore Christians will escape it.

Romans 5:9 "Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God's wrath.."

Yet they will suffer along with unbeliever equal tough times through the initial three and a half year period of the seven year Tribulation period.

The signs of the end times will inaugurate the beginning of the seven years tribulation. Which will come upon us with out an obvious beginning point.

Rev 5 : 9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

 

[B-A-C]

The Wrath of God has already been poured out on Christ - therefore Christians will escape it.

Noah went through the flood, but he was saved from it.
I believe Christians will go through the tribulation but be saved from the "wrath" of it.

Rev 9:3; Then out of the smoke came locusts upon the earth, and power was given them, as the scorpions of the earth have power.
Rev 9:4; They were told not to hurt the grass of the earth, nor any green thing, nor any tree, but only the men who do not have the seal of God on their foreheads.
Rev 9:5; And they were not permitted to kill anyone, but to torment for five months; and their torment was like the torment of a scorpion when it stings a man.

 

[KingJ]

Noah went through the flood, but he was saved from it.
I believe Christians will go through the tribulation but be saved from the "wrath" of it.

Rev 9:3; Then out of the smoke came locusts upon the earth, and power was given them, as the scorpions of the earth have power.
Rev 9:4; They were told not to hurt the grass of the earth, nor any green thing, nor any tree, but only the men who do not have the seal of God on their foreheads.
Rev 9:5; And they were not permitted to kill anyone, but to torment for five months; and their torment was like the torment of a scorpion when it stings a man.

Rev 9 speaks to the second half of the tribulation.

I disagree with your view because of these three facts:

1. The comforter needs to leave for the antichrist to have his way 2 Thess 2:7
2. Salvation before the tribulation is by faith in Jesus John 3:16, in the tribulation it is by torment, martyrdom and rejecting the mark of the beast Rev 2:10, Rev 20"4 amd Rev 9:4.
3. In Matt 24:21 Jesus explains how the great tribulation period (all seven years) is the greatest distress in human history. This means that from day 1 the antichrist will be 'distressing' good people and forcing the mark of the beast. There is no 'quiet' 3.5 years where people wonder who the antichrist is.

These three facts completely and utterly debunk a mid or post tribulation rapture.