Faith or works or both?

[Bill]

No, I am not certain, what makes you think that? Is it because I keep asking...maybe it's because you keep not answering!

I rest my case

 

[Bill]

Greeting brother

This is the way I view this Bill,

We are all God's children (He created us), but NOT ALL Children of God (Having been re-born)

We are only Children of God when we are saved, become a new creation, when we are born again.

God is 'Our Father,' the question is do we accept this, the saved do, the unsaved don't, but He is still 'Our Father', He doesn't want any to be lost, though many will be.

Bless you

You are changing the subject , as we were talking about coming down from Heaven , inwhich Ecc 12: 7 cleared that up . That the body is made of the earth , but the spirit comes from God

 

[Brother-Paul]

You seem confused. You say " we are all God's children " then you say " we are only children of God when we are saved "

That Is very confusing

Jesus did not stipulate, as you are when He told everyone " Our Father " . I dont recall Jesus saying . Only the saved can call God Father . Would you be so kind as to point it out for me.

Greetings Bill

The Lord's Prayer was given to 'the disciples' To His followers.

Therefore as we know, we are created by God, therefore we are either His or we are not.

His followers are those that come to Him through Jesus, who are saved, we are therefore 'Children of God' because we are re-born

Those who are not saved are 'God's children', as they were created by Him, but are not born again, so are not 'Children of God'

We are born God's children but only become Children of God when we become a new creation.

Bless you

 

[Brother-Paul]

You are changing the subject , as we were talking about coming down from Heaven , inwhich Ecc 12: 7 cleared that up . That the body is made of the earth , but the spirit comes from God

You asked this question brother so I answered it

The body is only the Temple of the Holy Spirit. Where did the soul come from ?

 

[Bill]

Greetings Bill

The Lord's Prayer was given to 'the disciples' To His followers.

Therefore as we know, we are created by God, therefore we are either His or we are not.

His followers are those that come to Him through Jesus, who are saved, we are therefore 'Children of God' because we are re-born

Those who are not saved are 'God's children', as they were created by Him, but are not born again, so are not 'Children of God'

We are born God's children but only become Children of God when we become a new creation.

Bless you

Judas was saved . As he was a follower at the time when Jesus states Our Father .

And that proves my point even more , as Judas rejected Jesus .

So you prove points ive said all along , ( thank you ) the Saved can lose salvation and the Our Father was given to all

 

[Born Again 2004]

You seem confused. You say " we are all God's children " then you say " we are only children of God when we are saved "

That Is very confusing

Jesus did not stipulate, as you are when He told everyone " Our Father " . I dont recall Jesus saying . Only the saved can call God Father . Would you be so kind as to point it out for me.

That's right, He may have given all of us a Soul but having a soul doesn't mean you are saved. When you die as a non-believer your soul goes to Hell ( with out God)...if you are a believer and "Born Again" [born of spirit] you soul and conjoined spirit go to Heaven ( with God) and are a part of His family...but, of course ,Bill, you already know this because the Holy Spirit has told you this!

 

[Samson2020]

Question: So how can we come from the Father?

Your spirit comes from the Father not necessarily your body, the body is formed in the womb by God. Man still cannot form a human body inside a woman.

When a person dies, they have either received the Holy Spirit or they have not therefore...

Man has a spirit from the Father or he wouldn't exist in the first place. The Infilling of the Holy Ghost is the second birth and has nothing to do with the spirit of a man
going back to the Father who gave it as there were 4000 yrs of man on earth that had not the Holy Spirit and died and your bible says the same as mine. The spirit
goes back to the Father who gave it.

: How can we come from the Father?

How can we not as spirits are not just readily available to be placed in bodies at the whim of a person who gets pregnant. Someone has to put that spirit there and it is
God.
Psalms 82:6 " Have I not said YE are gods; and ALL OF YOU are children of the most High."
John 10:43 "Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?

Titus 1:2 " In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began."
Who do you suppose he made that promise to? If you believe that Jesus was God then whats the point of eternal life as a promise as he already had it. But if you
see this as a promise made to all of us, especially Jesus, then that makes a lot more sense. I figure you will not receive this, but maybe in due time.

It was all laid out in the making of Eve in Genesis. Adam was made a single man alone with God but for some reason was lonely. So God chose something
that was worthy of the man to make his soul mate from, the rib of the man. You don't find that odd or a clue?
This is a physical allegory of Gods condition, as he had made everything but had no one to converse with original thought AKA he was lonely. So in his plan to
produce children whom he could teach his knowledge and understanding and wisdom etc.. to he looked over all of his creation and found nothing worthy of
becoming his children except from within himself. We as a group are spirits that compose that particular RIB of God that he is fashioning his children from.
These spirits are considered feminine and once they receive the seed of life from Jesus they become born of the Spirit, quickened, and alive unto their Father and are
considered sons. You as a human with a spirit are called the Bride of Christ for a reason, your just like a female egg, unfertilized until that seed of life infuses
your feminine spirit, at which time spiritual life begins. Both sides of the spiritual equation came from God, just like Isaacs parents were half brother and sister
and it was the product of that physical relationship that the promises made to Abraham were to come through. Odd again or another clue? Read it for yourself.
If both the spirit in you from the Father and the seed that quickens that spirit from Jesus who received his quickening at Jordan are merged then that new creature
is a son of God spiritually as both sides of the spiritual genetics came from the Father originally.
Good luck.
Thats a short version.

 

[Sue D.]

In John 3 -- Jesus was having a conversation with Nicodemus -- He was explaining that a person needs 1st to be physically born and Then , also, be born of the Spirit in order to enter the kingdom of heaven."

Everyone is born physically alive -- but are Spiritually dead until they accept Jesus Christ as their personal Lord and Savior. And THAT is because Jesus Christ is the 2nd person of the Godhead -- He was / is not / simply another human man who Became another son or daughter of God Through salvation.

 

[Samson2020]

Judas was saved . As he was a follower at the time when Jesus states Our Father .

Judas never received the infilling of the Holy Ghost, and "without the Spirit you are none of his." Plenty
of people hear about Jesus and even heard him themselves but were not chosen by God to be saved. "And God added to the church such as should be saved."


The statement that we are all the children of God actually comes from the Psalms 500 yrs before Jesus, David was inspired to write that. Jesus just brought
it up again in his ministry.

 

[Sue D.]

@Samson2020 -- so you believe that once a person has been conceived -- that they are automatically part of the Bride of Christ?

There had always been perfect unity within the Godhead. God has never Needed anything. He chose to create Adam and created the perfect environment for him in the garden of Eden. The Animals all had mates -- but Adam was created differently. On purpose. Adam didn't Have a mate. So God made Eve out of Adam. God Did give him a soul which made him a physically living person. But that soul became sinful and needed to be born Again. But this time Spiritually -- upon our choice of our personal salvation.

 

[Samson2020]

@Samson2020 -- so you believe that once a person has been conceived -- that they are automatically part of the Bride of Christ?

There had always been perfect unity within the Godhead. God has never Needed anything. He chose to create Adam and created the perfect environment for him in the garden of Eden. The Animals all had mates -- but Adam was created differently. On purpose. Adam didn't Have a mate. So God made Eve out of Adam. God Did give him a soul which made him a physically living person. But that soul became sinful and needed to be born Again. But this time Spiritually -- upon our choice of our personal salvation.

Like I said, hidden mannna, reserved for the overcomers only. Spiritual cataracts will remain until the overcoming takes place.

 

[Sue D.]

Judas never received the infilling of the Holy Ghost, and "without the Spirit you are none of his." Plenty
of people hear about Jesus and even heard him themselves but were not chosen by God to be saved. "And God added to the church such as should be saved."


The statement that we are all the children of God actually comes from the Psalms 500 yrs before Jesus, David was inspired to write that. Jesus just brought
it up again in his ministry.

As has been said -- everyone is given physical life by God. But in order to be 'saved' a person needs to be born spiritually.

 

[Sue D.]

Like I said, hidden mannna, reserved for the overcomers only. Spiritual cataracts will remain until the overcoming takes place.

So Now you're saying that because I don't agree with you, that I'm Not an 'overcomer' -- that I have spiritual cataracts. And exactly How does this 'overcoming' take place. BTW -- I've already had physical cataract surgery several years. Ago. I have great physical sight as a result. I had Spiritual 'cataract surgery' way back when I was a teenager. The Holy Spirit came to indwell me at that time. So -- Now -- How do you say I'm supposed to become an 'overcomer' ?!

 

[Samson2020]

So Now you're saying that because I don't agree with you, that I'm Not an 'overcomer'

-- that I have spiritual cataracts. And exactly How does this 'overcoming' take place. BTW -- I've already had physical cataract surgery several years. Ago. I have great physical sight as a result. I had Spiritual 'cataract surgery' way back when I was a teenager. The Holy Spirit came to indwell me at that time. So -- Now -- How do you say I'm supposed to become an 'overcomer' ?!

Read Revelation chapters 2 and 3 concerning the 7 letters and see for your self. The Lord lays it out for all to see.

Overcoming one issue does make one a partial overcomer but there are 7 letters each with its own reward, overcome them all and I would consider that individual
a true and complete overcomer. I do not believe that I fit that category as of yet. Patience.

 

[Bill]

Judas never received the infilling of the Holy Ghost, and "without the Spirit you are none of his." Plenty
of people hear about Jesus and even heard him themselves but were not chosen by God to be saved. "And God added to the church such as should be saved."


The statement that we are all the children of God actually comes from the Psalms 500 yrs before Jesus, David was inspired to write that. Jesus just brought
it up again in his ministry.

What does it mean to be saved ? Anyone whose name is " written in heaven " is saved .Luke 10 : 20

 

[Bill]

Judas never received the infilling of the Holy Ghost, and "without the Spirit you are none of his." Plenty
of people hear about Jesus and even heard him themselves but were not chosen by God to be saved. "And God added to the church such as should be saved."


The statement that we are all the children of God actually comes from the Psalms 500 yrs before Jesus, David was inspired to write that. Jesus just brought
it up again in his ministry.

Judas never had the Baptism of the Holy Spirit , but in Scripture Jesus even states that thier names are written in Heaven . What more evidence do you need when Jesus states it .

In the same way that Esau lost his inheritance to Jacob , Judas lost his inheritance as a son of the Most High. Because both never saw the Gift of it, both looked at what God had given to them as nothing.

 

[Bill]

As has been said -- everyone is given physical life by God. But in order to be 'saved' a person needs to be born spiritually.

Being born again spiritually is the same thing as having your heart circumcised.

 

[Brother-Paul]

Your spirit comes from the Father not necessarily your body, the body is formed in the womb by God. Man still cannot form a human body inside a woman.

1 Corinthians 2:10-12 (NKJV)
10 But God has revealed them to us through His Spirit. For the Spirit searches all things, yes, the deep things of God.
11 For what man knows the things of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God.
12 Now we (Saved souls) have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God.

Does this not tells us, there are two spirits, the Holy Spirit and the spirit of the world.

John 3:3-7 (NKJV)
3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."
4 Nicodemus said to Him, "How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born?"
5 Jesus answered, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Do not marvel that I said to you, 'You must be born again.'

Does this not also confirm there is the spirit of man, which is the spirit in man who is not saved, but they need the other Spirit, The Holy Spirit which is from God, and enters a new believer to save them. Two spirits, spirit of man who is unsaved, spirit of God, the Holy Spirit who enters the body when born again and Saves the Soul.

Man has a spirit from the Father or he wouldn't exist in the first place. The Infilling of the Holy Ghost is the second birth and has nothing to do with the spirit of a man
going back to the Father who gave it as there were 4000 yrs of man on earth that had not the Holy Spirit and died and your bible says the same as mine. The spirit
goes back to the Father who gave it.

The spirit of man is surely the breath of life, which is the spirit of all belonging to the world, sin and the devil.

How can we not as spirits are not just readily available to be placed in bodies at the whim of a person who gets pregnant. Someone has to put that spirit there and it is
God.
Psalms 82:6 " Have I not said YE are gods; and ALL OF YOU are children of the most High."
John 10:43 "Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?

Titus 1:2 " In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began."
Who do you suppose he made that promise to? If you believe that Jesus was God then whats the point of eternal life as a promise as he already had it. But if you
see this as a promise made to all of us, especially Jesus, then that makes a lot more sense. I figure you will not receive this, but maybe in due time.

John 10:34-38 (NKJV)
34 Jesus answered them, "Is it not written in your law, 'I said, "You are gods" '?
35 If He called them gods, to whom the word of God came (and the Scripture cannot be broken),
36 do you say of Him whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, 'You are blaspheming,' because I said, 'I am the Son of God'?
37 If I do not do the works of My Father, do not believe Me;
38 but if I do, though you do not believe Me, believe the works, that you may know and believe that the Father is in Me, and I in Him."

There is only one true and living God, God the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. Jesus knew that most of all, 'If you have seen me you have seen the Father.' Here the quote is not God, One God, it is God's, plural. This is not as straightforward as it first seems, it does refer to Psalm 82:6-7.

 

[Brother-Paul]

Being born again spiritually is the same thing as having your heart circumcised.

I agree with that Bill.

But regarding the spirit in man, a child is born into a sinful and fallen world, not with the spirit of God but with the breath of life, every soul have the spirit of the world unless they are born again and receive the Spirit of True Life, a new creation, born again, when the Holy Spirit enters the body and saves the soul.

The child is God's creation, the fall was through Adam, through Adam all sin, through Jesus we are all saved.

 

[Samson2020]

What does it mean to be saved ? Anyone whose name is " written in heaven " is saved .Luke 10 : 20

And those whose names are written in heaven will have been born again, born of the spirit. This was never the case for Judas. I'm sure you would have to agree that
he will not be among the first group resurrected from among the dead, but rather will be part of the second resurrection after the 1000 yr reign?
I am fully convinced that God will bring ALL into eternal life, otherwise Hell would have to exist forever, but it becomes an enemy that is reconciled
just like death. Col 1:20 Therefore he (Judas) will be in another group according to Gods timing.
1 Co 15:22 "For as in Adam ALL die, even so IN CHRIST shall ALL be made alive. 23-But EVERY MAN in his own order; Christ the first fruits, afterward they
that are Christs at his coming.
24-Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power."

Ephesians 1:10 "That in the dispensation of the fullness of times he might gather together in one ALL things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on
earth; even in him;"

Theres a big gap of time between 15:23 and 24 that is not spoken of but is mentioned in Ephesians 1 that there will be at least 2 different dispensations of time.
In this second dispensation there will be more made alive in Christ according to the Fathers will until ALL have been made alive in Christ as 15:22 states.

It is an undertaking to see it, but it is there, hidden, but still there.