Faith or works or both?

[Samson2020]

Does this not tells us, there are two spirits, the Holy Spirit and the spirit of the world.

That wasn't the point. It was that the spirit of man before he becomes joined with the Holy Spirit exists in the man even if he dies and has never been joined with
the Holy Spirit, as was the first 4,000 yrs of men. They had a spirit in them or they would not have existed. Your body is nothing more than dirt, it is the spirit
within the dirt that God is concerned with and God gave to each individual body of dirt.

 

[Samson2020]

There is only one true and living God, God the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. Jesus knew that most of all, 'If you have seen me you have seen the Father.' Here the quote is not God, One God, it is God's, plural. This is not as straightforward as it first seems, it does refer to Psalm 82:6-7.

Again the quote was for reference to the fact that all are children of God. The quote was from David in the Psalms that was 500 yrs prior to Jesus.
God revealed to David that we are all his children. Some made as vessels to honor some to dishonor according to Gods will to accomplish his plan/word.
And to briefly mention that as a child of God who is a spirit it must be the spirit within the man that is the child of God even before becoming born again
as that could not happen until after the time of Jesus.

 

[Brother-Paul]

And those whose names are written in heaven will have been born again, born of the spirit. This was never the case for Judas. I'm sure you would have to agree that
he will not be among the first group resurrected from among the dead, but rather will be part of the second resurrection after the 1000 yr reign?
I am fully convinced that God will bring ALL into eternal life, otherwise Hell would have to exist forever, but it becomes an enemy that is reconciled
just like death. Col 1:20 Therefore he (Judas) will be in another group according to Gods timing.

If what you say brother is correct there would be no need for Jesus to s, to emphasise...

John 3:3-7 (NKJV)
3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."
4 Nicodemus said to Him, "How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born?"
5 Jesus answered, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Do not marvel that I said to you, 'You must be born again.'

I am fully convinced God will raise all to judgement, the lost souls, unsaved, to The Great White Throne Judgement. The saved souls who are His, He knows Hos sheep and His sheep know Him, will be judged for what we have done according to The Word.

1 Co 15:22 "For as in Adam ALL die, even so IN CHRIST shall ALL be made alive. 23-But EVERY MAN in his own order; Christ the first fruits, afterward they
that are Christs at his coming.
24-Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power."

Are we in Adam, living as the fall, living in Sin? Or are we in Christ, born again, He in us and we in Him?

Everyman in his own order, according to being Saved or unsaved.

1 Corinthians 15:22-23 (NKJV)
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive.
23 But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ's at His coming.

As for Adam all die, the unsaved as in Adam, in sin, all shall die, that is all unsaved, all in sin.

All in Christ shall be saved, who are in Christ, those who are saved, those who are born again.

Ephesians 1:10 "That in the dispensation of the fullness of times he might gather together in one ALL things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on
earth; even in him;"

Here again we read, ALL things in Christ, the lost souls are not in Christ, we are only saved if IN HIM, He in us. John 3:3, 3:5, 3:7 again.

 

[Brother-Paul]

That wasn't the point. It was that the spirit of man before he becomes joined with the Holy Spirit exists in the man even if he dies and has never been joined with
the Holy Spirit, as was the first 4,000 yrs of men. They had a spirit in them or they would not have existed. Your body is nothing more than dirt, it is the spirit
within the dirt that God is concerned with and God gave to each individual body of dirt.

John 14:6 (NKJV)
Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.

We do not know how many were saved in the OT, (Abraham's bosom), we do know Salvation is only through Jesus, by the Power of the Holy Spirit.

God calls us, we do not call Him, He calls us because our Name is in the Book of Life and the Lamb, He knows we will fight against accepting Him for a period, but He knows who are His.

When born we are God's Creation, but when we breath in the breath of life, we are taking in the spirit of man, not the Spirit of God, we are born into sin, we need forgiveness, we are born with a worldly spirit, we need the Holy Spirit and only get forgiveness of our sins and the Holy Spirit when we are truly born again.

As you say brother, the body is of the dirt and will return to the earth.

The body only becomes a living soul when it breaths in the breath of life.

The soul can only be saved by the individual being born again and becoming a new creation, as Jesus emphasises in John 3:3, 3:5 & 3:7 we must be born again.

Shalom

 

[Samson2020]

Are we in Adam, living as the fall, living in Sin? Or are we in Christ, born again, He in us and we in Him?

You were in Adam in sin UNTIL you were given grace to believe. What did you do to earn anything? Your reading it wrong.
Romans 5:18 "Therefore, as through one mans offense (Adam,) judgement came to ALL men, resulting in condemnation, even so by one Mans righteous
act(Jesus) the free gift came to ALL men, resulting in justification of life."

These 2 things are decrees made by God according to his plan/word. Why should we who did not sin as Adam be condemned? But God said thats just the way
I want it. He also says that because of the sacrifice Jesus made the same ALL who were condemned which is ALL men were justified unto life as a free gift.

You lived in sin according to the wisdom of your Father, you needed to know and experience good and evil so you were condemned so that you would be like him
who placed the tree of the knowledge of good and evil in the garden in the first place. The knowledge of good and evil is part of your education and the main
reason your a man living on the earth.

I see I struck a self righteous nerve.

 

[Samson2020]

Everyman in his own order, according to being Saved or unsaved.

22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive.
23 But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ's at His coming.

As you showed by quoting my post it is a timing issue of resurrecting the elect of God it does NOT say according to being saved or not saved.
And you still cannot get around ALL being made alive in Christ.
Point being you did not choose to be born under condemnation, God chose that for you. You would not choose Jesus unless God dragged you to him
and gave you the faith to believe. So in both instances they are Gods choices for you. But, if you wanna say it was your choice, was it also your choice
to be born under condemnation, and the free gift that was given according to Jesus' righteous act you earned?

God will eventually call ALL and ALL will come to Jesus and receive life. And agrees with vs 22. And is the way that death will be destroyed which is the
last enemy to be put under the Lords feet.

 

[B-A-C]

John 3:16; "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.
John 3:17; "For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him.
John 3:18; "He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Matt 7:12; "In everything, therefore, treat people the same way you want them to treat you, for this is the Law and the Prophets.
Matt 7:13; "Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it.
Matt 7:14; "For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it.

It seems not "all" will be saved, in fact not the majority.

 

[Bill]

I agree with that Bill.

But regarding the spirit in man, a child is born into a sinful and fallen world, not with the spirit of God but with the breath of life, every soul have the spirit of the world unless they are born again and receive the Spirit of True Life, a new creation, born again, when the Holy Spirit enters the body and saves the soul.

The child is God's creation, the fall was through Adam, through Adam all sin, through Jesus we are all saved.

Remember too Bro. Paul . What Jesus said about Loving God ,that there were 4 distinct areas . " Love God with all your heart , with all your soul , with all your mind, and with all your strength.

In some translations it says " Love God with all your heart and all your spirit etc. "

But here too , Jesus makes a distintion of the 4 elements that make up a human.. your heart ( where the soul resides) , your spirit , your mind and the Temple of the Holy Spirit , your physical body.

It is safe to say Jesus understood the difference of the soul God gave us, and the " human spirit we also have

 

[Bill]

You were in Adam in sin UNTIL you were given grace to believe. What did you do to earn anything? Your reading it wrong.
Romans 5:18 "Therefore, as through one mans offense (Adam,) judgement came to ALL men, resulting in condemnation, even so by one Mans righteous
act(Jesus) the free gift came to ALL men, resulting in justification of life."

These 2 things are decrees made by God according to his plan/word. Why should we who did not sin as Adam be condemned? But God said thats just the way
I want it. He also says that because of the sacrifice Jesus made the same ALL who were condemned which is ALL men were justified unto life as a free gift.

You lived in sin according to the wisdom of your Father, you needed to know and experience good and evil so you were condemned so that you would be like him
who placed the tree of the knowledge of good and evil in the garden in the first place. The knowledge of good and evil is part of your education and the main
reason your a man living on the earth.

I see I struck a self righteous nerve.

.

 

[Samson2020]

John 3:16; "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.
John 3:17; "For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him.
John 3:18; "He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Matt 7:12; "In everything, therefore, treat people the same way you want them to treat you, for this is the Law and the Prophets.
Matt 7:13; "Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it.
Matt 7:14; "For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it.

It seems not "all" will be saved, in fact not the majority.

It does seem that way according to those few verses cherry picked from the word. But reconcile those with the rest that say ALL have been justified unto life
because of what Jesus did. Reconcile ALL will be made alive in Christ. Reconcile all things are given to me, and it is the Fathers will that I should lose none.
You can't make a doctrine out of just a few verses, the whole thing has to be put together to get the picture.

Who can believe in Jesus and the fact that God resurrected a sinless Son from the dead unless he receive faith from God to believe. If he does not yet
as you were once one of them then he remains in the state he was born in which is condemnation. You did not believe UNTIL you received faith according
to Gods grace. The rest will also receive that same faith in due time according to Gods timing.

If death and hell are enemies that are reconciled, and they are, then where are all those who are supposed to be in an eternal torment?

 

[Bill]

Stop please . We are all brothers and sisters here .

This forum is not about one upping the other . It is for discussion . Openning our minds to eachother . Sharing .

Let us be one with Jesus . Please

 

[Bill]

So Now you're saying that because I don't agree with you, that I'm Not an 'overcomer' -- that I have spiritual cataracts. And exactly How does this 'overcoming' take place. BTW -- I've already had physical cataract surgery several years. Ago. I have great physical sight as a result. I had Spiritual 'cataract surgery' way back when I was a teenager. The Holy Spirit came to indwell me at that time. So -- Now -- How do you say I'm supposed to become an 'overcomer' ?!

I just need some help , i missed where the term " overcomer " cmes from and what you guys mean by it . Sincerely bill

 

[Bill]

If what you say brother is correct there would be no need for Jesus to s, to emphasise...

John 3:3-7 (NKJV)
3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."
4 Nicodemus said to Him, "How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born?"
5 Jesus answered, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Do not marvel that I said to you, 'You must be born again.'

I am fully convinced God will raise all to judgement, the lost souls, unsaved, to The Great White Throne Judgement. The saved souls who are His, He knows Hos sheep and His sheep know Him, will be judged for what we have done according to The Word.




Are we in Adam, living as the fall, living in Sin? Or are we in Christ, born again, He in us and we in Him?

Everyman in his own order, according to being Saved or unsaved.

1 Corinthians 15:22-23 (NKJV)
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive.
23 But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ's at His coming.

As for Adam all die, the unsaved as in Adam, in sin, all shall die, that is all unsaved, all in sin.

All in Christ shall be saved, who are in Christ, those who are saved, those who are born again.




Here again we read, ALL things in Christ, the lost souls are not in Christ, we are only saved if IN HIM, He in us. John 3:3, 3:5, 3:7 again.

I agree with you . All will be brought before God at the Last Judgement .

Does anyone ever wonder what Jesus ment when he speaks in Matt 10 : 15 . In reguards to Judgement , it will go easier on the people of Sodom and Gomorrah than with that town.

If the people in Sodom and Gomorrah are condemned , what is easier . Hell is Hell

 

[Bill]

Remember, all of Scripture has to agree with itself .

The devil is great at picking scripture apart for his own purposes.

The Scripture is the Fullness of the Word. And the Word is Jesus

 

[Born Again 2004]

I rest my case

What Case?!

 

[Born Again 2004]

Remember, all of Scripture has to agree with itself .

The devil is great at picking scripture apart for his own purposes.

The Scripture is the Fullness of the Word. And the Word is Jesus

No arguments there!

 

[Born Again 2004]

What does it mean to be saved ? Anyone whose name is " written in heaven " is saved .Luke 10 : 20

Anyone which this has happened to:
Ephesians 2:8-10..God knew who would do this before the foundation of the World!

 

[Samson2020]

I just need some help , i missed where the term " overcomer " cmes from and what you guys mean by it . Sincerely bill

Rev 2:17 was the particular verse used to show that there is HIDDEN MANNA within the Bible for those who overcome what was written concerning
overcoming the things written to the church at Pergamos.

 

[Bill]

Rev 2:17 was the particular verse used to show that there is HIDDEN MANNA within the Bible for those who overcome what was written concerning
overcoming the things written to the church at Pergamos.

Oh , the layers of the Word . Lol yes

You know its really crazy if you take time to think of it .

Scripture . It has layers when you read it on a physical level . As an example, John 21 : 11 where Peter catches 153 fish . What is really interesting about that . There are exactly 153 species of fish in that lake.
.....and there are all sorts of layers hidden within the physical text.

Then you get the spiritual side and it is insaine.

The part i love the best, knowing that not only Jesus was the author of Scripture , but orchestrated how it was to be set up. Like the order , Matt , Mark Luke and John . There is even a purpose for that.

 

[Sue D.]

@Samson2020 -- that passage begins at vs 12 --the passage is saying that 'you have there those who hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balak to put a stumbling block before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed to idols and to commit sexual immorality. And they hold to the doctrine of the Nicolaitans , which he hates. He tells them to repent -- that passage does not state what a person is supposed To 'overcome' -- unless it's referring to believing the doctrine of Balaam Or holding to the doctrine of Nicolaitans -- so -- we back track to what the Nicolaitans were doing. And That section is talking about "To him who overcomes...."

So , there apparently is hidden manna to eat. While the children of Israel were in the wilderness, didn't God provide manna for them? It was in the form of a food - mystery food - that supplied all they needed,

You used That to refer to me when I didn't agree with you on some point or another. You used the concept of 'digging deeper' into the Word -- that I need to be an 'over comer' in order to Really understand the deep things of His Word.
Simply because I didn't agree with you. To Me, that's kind of sad. But I will look up the Nicolaitans to find out more.