How is a man saved??

[Samson2020]

Only a few ever find it. As Jesus tells us.

There is one translation that does use the word ever, the others never use the word ever, so not so sure about the accuracy of that verse in the NLT.
I agree that would be true during the OT times, as the way was not opened until His death. Few would have ever been told in OT times, but Abraham, David etc..
would know of it but even then it wasn't opened to them.

Rom 3:22 "Even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ UNTO ALL and UPON ALL them that believe. For there is no difference."

Does the verse say that the faith of Jesus is unto ALL? YES
When do they receive that? When the lord through His righteousness Gifts it to them.
They then would fall into the class of the believer.
The verse says there is no difference. Between who? The believer who has received faith of the Son, and the one who has not. Why? Because God is going to gift it to
them eventually. And they are all to receive mercy. Rom 11:32 "But every man in his own order............... "There is an order to this resurrection.................." 1 Co 15:23

1 Ti 4:10 For therefore we both labor and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, WHO IS THE SAVIOR OF ALL MEN, specially those that believe.
Every translation I see says that God IS the Savior of ALL men, not wants to be but can't because man has to choose Him. So as it says He IS then it must
already be done. That was at the death of Jesus. ANd for the scripture to be true then God will have to gift that faith of the Son to each person and bring them
into the life purchased by Jesus. Thus ALL to be made alive in Christ(the anointing of the Spirit that we will all drink in) 1 Co 15:22

Now look back at Rom 3:22 do they not say the same thing. The righteousness of God through the gifting of faith to believe from the heart is what saves a man
and that is to ALL and upon ALL and there is NO difference. Same as the Savior of ALL men, specially those that believe, because they already have received that faith.

 

[Curtis]

Does the verse say that the faith of Jesus is unto ALL? YES

2Th 3:1 FURTHERMORE, BRETHREN, do pray for us, that the Word of the Lord may speed on (spread rapidly and run its course) and be glorified (extolled) and triumph, even as [it has done] with you,

2Th 3:2 And that we may be delivered from perverse (improper, unrighteous) and wicked (actively malicious) men, for not everybody has faith and is held by it. (AMP)

 

[Curtis]

1 Ti 4:10 For therefore we both labor and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, WHO IS THE SAVIOR OF ALL MEN, specially those that believe.

Jesus is the savior of all mem, but not all men will be saved.

 

[Samson2020]

Acts 2:39 "For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off(in time), even AS MANY AS THE LORD OUR GOD SHALL CALL."

Jesus is the savior of all mem, but not all men will be saved.

1 Ti 4:10 was quoted. God as the Savior of all men is noted because it was He who sent Jesus to the cross for your sake. Jesus as the Savior is because He did it.

 

[Charlie24]

Acts 2:39 "For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off(in time), even AS MANY AS THE LORD OUR GOD SHALL CALL."


1 Ti 4:10 was quoted. God as the Savior of all men is noted because it was He who sent Jesus to the cross for your sake. Jesus as the Savior is because He did it.

If you don't see that call as Paul taught, that it's the call that comes through the presentation of the Gospel of Christ as I have shown you in a previous post, then you will take the Calvinist route believing God picks who He wants to be saved and passes over the rest.

The difference is that we believe man has free will, the Calvinists don't.

So if God makes the choice to save only who He chooses and man has no say in the matter, then God cannot pass a fair and equal judgment on those who He did not choose.

The Calvinists will quote Romans 9:15-16,
"For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.

So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy."

The Calvinists do not understand what this is saying! They use these verses to point to God's choosing whom He will and passing over who He will.

The only way to receive God's mercy is by faith in the Gospel of Jesus Christ through hearing it and responding in a positive manner, as I have shown in a previous post.

"So then it is not of him that wills, or of him that runs" is saying that His mercy cannot be earned by keeping any laws, but only through God's mercy by faith in Christ will man receive that mercy.

So the Calvinist way is very unlearned and places God as a dictator of sorts in picturing Him as One who will pass over the souls of men just because that is what He wants to do. The Calvinists do not understand the Biblical concept of Mercy and Grace.

 

[Curtis]

You'll have to provide a scripture for the word FINAL as it is the great Judgement where the books are opened and those not written in the book of life are
judged according to their works. But the word FINAL is not there.

"The earth and the sky fled away for there was no more place found for them......" Verse 11
Sounds pretty final to me.

Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
Judgment Before the Great White Throne
Rev 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

 

[Samson2020]

If you don't see that call as Paul taught, that it's the call that comes through the presentation of the Gospel of Christ as I have shown you in a previous post, then you will take the Calvinist route believing God picks who He wants to be saved and passes over the rest.

The difference is that we believe man has free will, the Calvinists don't.

So if God makes the choice to save only who He chooses and man has no say in the matter, then God cannot pass a fair and equal judgment on those who He did not choose.

The Calvinists will quote Romans 9:15-16,
"For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.

So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy."

The Calvinists do not understand what this is saying! They use these verses to point to God's choosing whom He will and passing over who He will.

The only way to receive God's mercy is by faith in the Gospel of Jesus Christ through hearing it and responding in a positive manner, as I have shown in a previous post.

"So then it is not of him that wills, or of him that runs" is saying that His mercy cannot be earned by keeping any laws, but only through God's mercy by faith in Christ will man receive that mercy.

So the Calvinist way is very unlearned and places God as a dictator of sorts in picturing Him as One who will pass over the souls of men just because that is what He wants to do. The Calvinists do not understand the Biblical concept of Mercy and Grace.

I am not a Calvinist.
As you have witnessed, you do not have the Holy Spirit thus you do not have the Spirit of truth. So why would anyone that does listen to anything you think you know?
I don’t say this to be mean to you but so that you would examine yourself. If you ain’t got it yet what then qualifies you to try and teach about what you have not yet received?

 

[Samson2020]

"The earth and the sky fled away for there was no more place found for them......" Verse 11
Sounds pretty final to me.

Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
Judgment Before the Great White Throne
Rev 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

I’m still waiting on your testimony

 

[Charlie24]

I am not a Calvinist.
As you have witnessed, you do not have the Holy Spirit thus you do not have the Spirit of truth. So why would anyone that does listen to anything you think you know?
I don’t say this to be mean to you but so that you would examine yourself. If you ain’t got it yet what then qualifies you to try and teach about what you have not yet received?

I said that I didn't have the filling of the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking in other tongues.

I do however have the indwelling Holy Spirit that was given to me as a down-payment on my salvation upon my faith as Paul said in Eph. 1:13-14.

"In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory."

 

[Samson2020]

I said that I didn't have the filling of the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking in other tongues.

I do however have the indwelling Holy Spirit that was given to me as a down-payment on my salvation upon my faith as Paul said in Eph. 1:13-14.

"In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory."

So what evidence do you have other than you accepted and therefore you are?
Your testimony falls woefully short of a true elect. And more like a disciple of an organization.

Without the evidence you have not the Spirit of truth and are not coming into all truth as He teaches.

I know Jesus spoke in parables, as do you all,
So that the majority would not understand from the heart.
Sad to say that is still the case today.
And no matter what is said until God makes it real to your heart you remain blind.

 

[Charlie24]

So what evidence do you have other than you accepted and therefore you are?
Your testimony falls woefully short of a true elect. And more like a disciple of an organization.

Without the evidence you have not the Spirit of truth and are not coming into all truth as He teaches.

I know Jesus spoke in parables, as do you all,
So that the majority would not understand from the heart.
Sad to say that is still the case today.
And no matter what is said until God makes it real to your heart you remain blind.

I'm sure my testimony of salvation does fall short for one who claims not to be a Calvinist, but believes as one!

Your view of salvation is completely different than Paul's and mine!

 

[Curtis]

I’m still waiting on your testimony

Played rock and roll music professionally, and turned into a drug addict, and alcoholic For years. A coworker invited me to his Church. I went and sat down in the very last pew of this large Church. The pastor gave an invitation for anyone to come forward to accept Jesus, I pretty much ran down the aisle to the altar. Later received the baptism of the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking in tongues.
that was more than 43 years ago.

 

[Samson2020]

Played rock and roll music professionally, and turned into a drug addict, and alcoholic For years. A coworker invited me to his Church. I went and sat down in the very last pew of this large Church. The pastor gave an invitation for anyone to come forward to accept Jesus, I pretty much ran down the aisle to the altar. Later received the baptism of the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking in tongues.
that was more than 43 years ago.

Has He had you do anything else?

 

[Samson2020]

I'm sure my testimony of salvation does fall short for one who claims not to be a Calvinist, but believes as one!

Your view of salvation is completely different than Paul's and mine!

Not really, mine is identical to Paul’s.

 

[Charlie24]

Not really, mine is identical to Paul’s.

Do you believe that we are saved by hearing the Gospel of our salvation thereby trusting in Him as Paul said?

 

[Samson2020]

Do you believe that we are saved by hearing the Gospel of our salvation thereby trusting in Him as Paul said?

The gospel (gods plan of your salvation) must be mixed with the heart faith that only he can give to you in order for you to believe from the heart and that faith is given because of the sacrifice of the Son and according to the promise made by God to Abraham. It is a gift given by promise. Undeserved.
We truly have nothing to do with our own initial salvation. However once that has come pass we are engaged in the process of becoming a son through sanctification of the word of God. That will last as long as we live in the flesh.

 

[Charlie24]

Do you believe that we are saved by hearing the Gospel of our salvation thereby trusting in Him as Paul sai

The gospel (gods plan of your salvation) must be mixed with the heart faith that only he can give to you in order for you to believe from the heart and that faith is given because of the sacrifice of the Son and according to the promise made by God to Abraham. It is a gift given by promise. Undeserved.
We truly have nothing to do with our own initial salvation. However once that has come pass we are engaged in the process of becoming a son through sanctification of the word of God. That will last as long as we live in the flesh.

We both know that your view of salvation is not the same as Paul's. Let's not pretend by beating around the bush.

Do you believe as Paul stated, that we are saved through hearing the Gospel, then believing we are sealed with the promised Holy Spirit?

 

[Curtis]

Has He had you do anything else?

As Jesus once said, “I can of my own self do nothing” John 5:30

I say, “I can do all things through Jesus Christ who strengthens me”

How can I do all things when I can do nothing?

Because it is Jesus in me who is doing the works Just as the Father was working through His Son.

 

[complete]

Samson2020 - Add bookmark Today at 11:51 AM #55

​

The grace by faith salvation is a gift of God, it is available to all men, but not all will receive it, because not all will believe on the Lord Jesus Christ as their Saviour and Lord.​

They cannot believe for He hath blinded their eyes and hardened their heart. Jo 12:40 Hello Esau, they were ordained to be vessels to dishonor and destruction​

before they were even born.​

​

​

'He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart;
that they should not see with their eyes,
nor understand with their heart,
and be converted, and I should heal them.'
(Joh 12:40)

Hello @Samson2020,

The verse you have referenced (above) is referring to the nation of Israel, it is a quotation from Isaiah 6:9-10, our Lord is quoting it at a crises point of unbelief and rejection. It is quoted twice by the Lord and once by Paul in Acts 28:26-27. Each time to Israel, and at times of crises and rejection. Please do not misuse the word of God in this way.

@Samson2020,

'But God commendeth His love toward us,​

in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.​

Much more then, being now justified by His blood,​

we shall be saved from wrath through Him.​

For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son,​

What does the verse say? You were reconciled to God by the death of His Son, not because you believed God, but because Jesus took your sentence to His cross.​

Salvation of man occurred at the cross of Christ, when each person comes to that reality, individually, is controlled by the Father, as there is an order to this resurrection.​

* Those to whom Paul spoke were believers in the assembly at Rome, they had been justified by His blood, by believing in the all-sufficient sacrifice of Christ on their behalf.

@Samson2020​

1 Co 15:23​

He died for all to be testified in due time.​

Do the verses you quote say anything about your acceptance of this? If you truly believe from the heart then the Holy Spirit is given to you and you can't do that​

unless the faith which justifies you is given to you by the Father. Therefore you are made righteous by God imputing it to you through the faith He gave you.​

The righteousness of God. Rom 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ UNTO ALL, and UPON ALL them that believe: for there is no difference.​

​

Notice that the faith of Jesus Christ is UNTO ALL and it is also UPON all them that believe: for there IS NO DIFFERENCE. WHY? Because it was a gift from God that eventually goes to everyone. That is the promise made to Abraham fulfilled, which He swore by Himself for there was no greater thing to swear by.​

'For since by man came death,
by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
For as in Adam all die,
even so in Christ shall all be made alive.'
But every man in his own order:
Christ the firstfruits;
afterward they that are Christ's at His coming.'
(1Cor. 15:21-23)

* Only those who are 'in Christ' shall be made alive. It is God who places us, 'in Christ', (1 Cor. 1:30)

'Even the righteousness of God
which is by faith of Jesus Christ
unto all and upon all them that believe:
for there is no difference:'
(Rom 3:22)

* The righteousness of God is received by faith of Jesus Christ, and is upon 'all them that believe.'

Samson2020

This is written by Paul in relation to the elect remnant which had been called out by God from the nation of Israel at that time, he assures all such, that one day all Israel shall be saved.​

Account for the saving of ALL Israel. How is that possible? When? If you consider that Israel is the chosen of God, and we are all predestined to become gods children,​

then who is left out?​

Did not God send His Son to the cross because He loved the world. (mankind) not just a few, but all of them.​

​

Go back to the original promise God gave to Abraham Gal 3:18 Heb 6:13 What was the promise? Gen 22:16-18​

Is a remnant according to election the fulfillment of the promise God made to him? Not even close.​

For the blessing that would come to the seed of Abraham was not according to his seed in the flesh under the law, but through the righteousness of faith. Rom 4:13​

Which was withheld until Gal 3:23 After the law. And is shed to each person as God calls them unto the salvation purchased by Jesus enduring His cross.​

'And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written,
There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer,
and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
For this is my covenant unto them,
when I shall take away their sins.
As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes:
but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.'
(Rom 11:26-28)
* It is written.
-------------------

* The rest of your response, including references, was not relative to the subject we were discussing, so forgive me if I do not address it or them at this time. (Gal. 3:18; Heb.6:13; Gen. 22:16-18; Rom. 4:13 & Gal. 3:23)

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Samson2020]

We both know that your view of salvation is not the same as Paul's. Let's not pretend by beating around the bush.

Do you believe as Paul stated, that we are saved through hearing the Gospel, then believing we are sealed with the promised Holy Spirit?

Dude your conversing with a man who was born of the spirit over 20 yrs ago. Who has cast out the unclean, laid his hands on the sick and they recovered of heart failure and inoperable cancer. I speak in tongues whenever I desire. I have been sent by the Lord to speak to others. So yes I know His voice. I wa even scolded by Hum using the vocal cords of my wife while she was asleep. I know who I am in Him for he has confirmed it to me.

I’m not a target for salvation as I have already received it.

I’m not really sure what your attempting to gain by repeated attempts to push your ideology on me but like the Lord said My sheep know My voice and another they will not follow.