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Once Saved Always Saved and Conditional Security

What do you believe?


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Fellowservant said:
I think what we are trying to say here is only God can cut off the saint, if he falls into rebellion and unbelief. And only God can graft him back in, but this again involves faith as well. Like i said, i wouldn't mess with it.
"Quote... linkage"
Salvation from something as serious as hell is not dangled over your head, being threatened that it will be thrown away. Even myself, a sinner, wouldn't do that to even an enemy. I'm sure God wouldn't do it, being infinitely loving.
"End Quote"
Thats why the word says that Gods thoughts are not our thoughts, and Gods ways are not our ways. Job was asked by God, shall a man be more righteous than his maker?
Or shall the thing that is formed, say to the one who formed it, why have you made me like this?
Rom 11:20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
Rom 11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, [take heed] lest he also spare not thee.
Rom 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in [his] goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
Rom 11:23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.
Heres a question, was Judas OSAS? he was called but not chosen. Jesus called him the son of perdition, this was a man who even cast out devils in his name. Just in case some say he wasn't saved because the holy ghost was not yet given, then was Ananias, and and his wife Sapphira OSAS? then why did they fall dead after lieing to the Holy Ghost? did God just kill them so that the Church would be fearful of the apostles?
The God you say that is so loveing has no way to judge sin then. We must be careful, the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, and the saints are required to believe and repent of thier sins, or a fearfull judgement awaits them (outerdarkness or lake of fire), and that my friends is what i see all through the bible, and im talking new testament here, not the old.
Act 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
I mean Jesus either means what he says here, or he doesn't, you be the judge.
Paul says over and over, be not decieved...
God bless

Paul is referring to Israel who rejected their savior. They never once believed in Jesus and Judas never believed. If he did, i'm sure he wouldn't have betrayed the one who was going to save him. That in itself proved he didn't truely believe.

I'm not saying one should turn away from Jesus or could do so and have his cake and eat it too. I'm saying all that gets you into heaven is Jesus. It is not anything you can do yourself. If you believe otherwise, you live in a contradiction. Jesus is the only way to heaven. You can't help yourself get there at all. If you miss out on heaven because of rebellion..we're all going to hell. We all sin. Repentence isn't what saves. Christ is what saves. Repentence is the softening of the heart and the willingness to turn to Christ and His ways. But it does not save you...It is required for salvation, but it does not save you, understand? You can't accept Jesus unless you have a change of heart.

I will say that someone who really loves and believes in what Jesus did for him, he/she will not stay the same person he/she has always been. There will be some kind of change. But its ridiculous to say that Jesus died for your sins and then say if you enter into rebellion, Jesus can't save you because you're doing what you always do. Sinning.

God judges the heart, yes. He can see whether or not it has Christ in it. Remaining in His goodness is having Jesus. There is no other way to be good. Jesus is the way, the truth and the life. Saying your salvation is based on any works of your own is saying Christ couldn't do it all.

Its really very simple..but I would never take the risk of offending God by choosing to be who I used to be and walking in disbelief. Even if someone who turned away from the faith were still saved, they would have God to answer to. I'm sure that would not be a fun time.

Thats about as clear as I can make it.

See ya, guys.
 
imready4thelord said:
even satan believes in jesus,but he has eternal death waiting for him...so i think it is just a little more than ,believing you have to live it.

lol...
Satan does not and can not trust in Jesus for the cleansing of his sins. Satan knew God in all his glory and will never have a chance at repentence because he knew exactly what he was doing.
 
linkage said:
But its ridiculous to say that Jesus died for your sins and then say if you enter into rebellion, Jesus can't save you because you're doing what you always do. Sinning.




Read the word brother, we can't use our own understanding here. Jesus didnt call us to be sinners...


Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.


Was the writter of Hebrews ridiculous ?

The above scripture contradicts what you said in your above quote...


God bless
 
Hebrews 10:38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if [any man] draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.
Hebrews 10:39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.


Perdition? that means damnation brother linkage...and there are damnable heresies out there, don't fall into this teaching. The antichrist is called the son of perdition, and so was Judas, and anyone who draws back in rebellion will face the same faith, if they don't repent. You also say we are not saved by repentance, that is only a half truth, as you indicated, but dont belittle the requirements of salvation brother, for the sake of the rebellious. Show me a man that is saved without repentance, and ill show you a car that runs without sparkplugs, and im not talking solar panel either. Rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, are there going to be any witches sitting in the kingdom of God?

God bless
 
What gets me is there a lot of saints who lean on their own understanding and not Gods word. Why are some teaching his word without his word? and not using Gods word as their guide. If you can't use scripture to back up what your saying on these so called hard sayings of scripture, you should'nt teach the scriptures, or have any part in this ministry.

Some are called to teach, some are called to be helps and so on, use scripture if your going to teach. Or get out of this ministry before you lead people astray. The bible makes it plain how a man called of God aught to teach, if he is called to teach... if not, let him be silent. Ask God to lead you to your calling or gift, don't use talents Gods didnt give you. If your not a baseball player, don't play baseball...simple.


Eph 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
Eph 4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

Eph 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
Eph 4:14 That we [henceforth] be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, [and] cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
Eph 4:15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, [even] Christ:



God bless
 
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Fellowservant said:
Read the word brother, we can't use our own understanding here. Jesus didnt call us to be sinners...


Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.


Was the writter of Hebrews ridiculous ?

The above scripture contradicts what you said in your above quote...


God bless

Perfectly said, in agreement with the Scripture you quoted (and Scripture itself over man's own understanding that will perish in the end).

Linkage, read and pray before you say. The Word makes it clear we are not to sin. Jesus did not say "go and sin, I've paid the price". His shedding of blood on Calvary was to REDEEM us from sin, not okay it. We are to walk in Spirit, not flesh. We are to be like Christ (He lived a sinless life and set an example for us).
 
:star: im not a man, im a worm... is what King David said, read todays quote and see that untill God turns us upside down. we will remain ingnorant of his word, me included. So let us lean on Gods word that was given to us by the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven.

“Not until we have become humble and teachable, standing in awe of God's holiness and sovereignty...acknowledging our own littleness, distrusting our own thoughts, and willing to have our minds turned upside down, can divine wisdom become ours.” J. I. Packer

Love all the brothers here:star: , but let us follow Gods word, and not our own understanding, it will drown us in perdition if left unchecked...

God bless all
 
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Quick question based on the above scriptures from hebrews...have either of you guys willfully sinned since becoming a Christian?...if so according to your interpretation what does that mean?.

Im not saying we are to sin, we should rather die! (if only we would have that attitude!).
 
It is the true understanding of All scripture that counts.
We must be able to use all scripture so it works out one Perfect picture!

That scripture is not toward the flesh as all flesh has a sin full nature and cannot help but sin, We are though opur spirit , to control the flesh and not allow it to sin!

This scripture is to our spirit.

Because, there is not a person on earth , who does not sin either in there flesh or minds at times!

But, Our flesh is counted dead on the Cross with our LORD and To sin? We must be under the law! We are not!
We have been set free of the law !

This appears to many to be too much?

Rom 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

Rom 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
He does not want us sinning of course!

And our spirit hates sin !

Gal 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

Gal 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

Rom 8:10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

Rom 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
Rom 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Rom 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
Rom 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
Rom 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
Rom 6:8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
Rom 6:9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
Rom 6:10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
Rom 6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Rom 6:12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
Rom 6:13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.

Rom 6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

Sin still brings sickness and death to our bodies!

Rom 4:8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

1Jn 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

This is to our Spirit , not our body!

1Jn 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.
This also is to our spirit!

You see two different things are at work at once.

The spirit once Born of GOd is protected for ever sealed by the Holy Ghost .

But the flesh is not.
Still, He has provided for us , if we allow knowingly or even unknowingly our flesh to sin.
I say unknowingly because ? We can think a sin just as easy as doing a sin!

Jas 5:14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:
Jas 5:15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.

NOW , I know this works!

Funny, How just an act of obeying can bring such great miracles in our lifes.

Rom 8:21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.

You gonna remember? We are living the KINGDOM LIFE NOW!

We cannot think of our lives here as the world life.

Col 1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

This is very hard for some to see?

Joh 17:16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
Joh 15:19 If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

Very hard to see our flesh , yet not see the true and eternal us?
That is why? WE must live by faith and not sight!
Not easy for many???

:love:
 
I hope that it's true...once saved always saved...I love the Lord Jesus but I am such a sinner :embarasse

God bless xxx
 
Thank you Ed

Awesome thought you have here, Sade!

Here is one of the first Scripture I believe that The Almighty GOD spoke to me through, Genesis 4:6-7
6. So the Lord said to Cain, "Why are you angry? And why has your countenance fallen?
7. "If you do well, will you not be accepted? And if you do not do well, sin lies at the door. And its desire is for you, but you should rule over it.''


Meaning, I am to control myself from sin.

I {or should I say - we} have the power to say NO to the things I {we} do not want in my {our} life, and the power to say NO to the things I {we} know are wrong in the eyes of our Almighty GOD.
 
once saved forever saved! Romans 8:35-39
Nothing can ever separate us from the LOVE of GOD which is in Christ Jesus.
If there's anything unsure it is us not God.
He said He will give us eternal life, when we accepted Him as our Saviour, there are no if's after that.
Faith is the key to our uncertainty!
 
I hope that it's true...once saved always saved...I love the Lord Jesus but I am such a sinner :embarasse

God bless xxx
the idea is not that you continue in sin but that sin should not keep you from relationship with God.

i suggest that you read spirit1st's post again. the believer is to renew his/her mind (rom12:1&2) that his life may refect the renewed spirit within.

eternal security doesn't mean a believer should be comfortable with sin but to help him come to terms with his freedom and victory in christ. see 1john1&2,romans5&6 and john17.

God despises sin, those who love him don't make a habit of sinning but seek to please him in all they do.
 
Once saved always saved (true salvation not just a show)

John 10: 28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.

I guess I should clarify- just because once saved always saved - does not give license to sin. If we truly belong to Him, we want to obey Him!!!
 
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i dont believe in once saved always saved i really dont know why i dont believe it but i just dont. maybe cause of my bringing up but i just dont believe it.
 
Lou that is your right- but look at passages and make sure you know why because of the bible not any one else -hugs
 
We discussed this elsewhere also.

Its very simple, Salvation is guaranteed. However, Salvation comes from accepting Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. You must follow Him, not just "believe" in words.

So, you walk away from Jesus, you've lost your Salvation. You walk WITH Jesus, you have Salvation secured by the Holy Spirit.

Ephesians 1:11-14

11 In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will, 12 that we who first trusted in Christ should be to the praise of His glory.
13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.
 
exact;y my point Chad - thanks and Lou and I know each well so she knows where I am coming from
 
Once saved always saved (true salvation not just a show)

John 10: 28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.

I guess I should clarify- just because once saved always saved - does not give license to sin. If we truly belong to Him, we want to obey Him!!!

Amen, sister. No ones going to pluck us from our Father's hand! We are sealed by the Blood of Jesus Christ. If you lose your salvation, you never had the true salvation of Jesus Christ in the first place.
 
We pay a price for sin , in our bodies !
Of course , WE only need ask HIM to forgive us and mean it and it is gone forever more!
And if we sin in our minds and do not know we did? then get sick? He has provided for that also!

Jas 5:14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:
Jas 5:15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.

I know this REALLY does work! By personal experience

:love:
 
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