Speaking in Tongues: Required for Regeneration?.

[Garee]

Garee, what if I were to fall forward slain in the Spirit?

I would think there is moving forward moved by the Spirit. It would not be defined by the tribe of Dan that indicates backward in need of repentance .

 

[vhusley]

I would think there is moving forward moved by the Spirit. It would not be defined by the tribe of Dan that indicates backward in need of repentance .

So being slain in the Spirit is okay as long as we fall forward or move forward when it happens?
Sorry, but I’m just trying to understand what you’re arguing for or against here.

 

[Garee]

So being slain in the Spirit is okay as long as we fall forward or move forward when it happens?
Sorry, but I’m just trying to understand what you’re arguing for or against here.

Thanks for the reply . Sorry about the poor grammar and extra work .

I would offer falling backward, went back or back sliding are metaphors used in parables . . . a sign of judgment, using the tribe of Dan to represent the judgment of God. . . or the letter of the law “death” .

The first use they went backward not to break the law

Genesis 9:23 And Shem and Japheth took a garment, and laid it upon both their shoulders, and went backward, and covered the nakedness of their father; and their faces were backward, and they saw not their father's nakedness.

In Jeremiah backsliding

Jeremiah 3:8 And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also.

Showing those who had no ears to hear the understanding of faith

Jeremiah 7:24 But they hearkened not, nor inclined their ear, but walked in the counsels and in the imagination of their evil heart, and went backward, and not forward.

They ignored the testimony of those no longer here under the Sun

Jeremiah 11:10 They are turned back to the iniquities of their forefathers, which refused to hear my words; and they went after other gods to serve them: the house of Israel and the house of Judah have broken my covenant which I made with their fathers

Again indicating no faith that could please God

John 6:66 From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.

The power of faith (life and death) I AM HE

John 18:6 As soon then as he had said unto them, I am he, they went backward, and fell to the ground

The spirit of judgment (tribe of Dan) is shown again below. There are many more examples of the use of the spirit of Judgment falling back or backsliding. .

1 Samuel 4:18 And it came to pass, when he made mention of the ark of God, that he fell from off the seat backward by the side of the gate, and his neck brake, and he died: for he was an old man, and heavy. And he had judged Israel forty years

Interestingly in the parable of Revelation 21 . . . 12 old testament saint are described as tribes as gates to the city (12 = the authority of God) and 12 apostles as walls or pillars of the city to represent all the new testament saints. . all together as one bride the church.

In that description in Revelation the tribe of Dan is missing as well as the false apostle Judas . Revealing to us death by the letter of the law (death) will not enter the new order. The spirits of Judgment as a law is missing Dan as well as a testimony , Judas.

There will be no death in the new order the things of old will not be remembered or ever come to mind

 

[Shaolin]

While the gift of tongues is a good gift, it is not given to all born again believers, and it is not a gift a born again believer must possess in order to be regenerated from above or required as proof of regeneration.

Just for a little clarity, there is the gift of tongues that Paul lists in I Cor. 12, and then there is the prayer language (ie, praying in the Spirit); two entirely different things. Also, one speaking in tongues at the moment they are baptized in the Spirit is NOT the "gift of tongues." Again, these are two different things Scripturally.

You are correct in that not everyone receives the gift of tongues, just as not everyone receives the gift of healing or miracles. You are also correct in that tongues has NOTHING to do with regeneration. I have seen people speak in tongues and receive the baptism in the Spirit when they came up out of the water in baptism, and I have seen people and know people who were Christians that never spoke a word in tongues.

Blessings!

 

[Garee]

Just for a little clarity, there is the gift of tongues that Paul lists in I Cor. 12, and then there is the prayer language (ie, praying in the Spirit); two entirely different things. Also, one speaking in tongues at the moment they are baptized in the Spirit is NOT the "gift of tongues." Again, these are two different things Scripturally.

You are correct in that not everyone receives the gift of tongues, just as not everyone receives the gift of healing or miracles. You are also correct in that tongues has NOTHING to do with regeneration. I have seen people speak in tongues and receive the baptism in the Spirit when they came up out of the water in baptism, and I have seen people and know people who were Christians that never spoke a word in tongues.

Blessings!

The poetic tongue of God is prophecy. When he put his words on Peters lips, men and women from all the nations according to the promise of Joel became the new kingdom of priests (believers) . They with their new tongue prophecy preached the gopsel to others .

The faithless, atheist Jews spoken of in the law mentioned in 1 Corinthians 14:31 founded in Isaiah 28 as those drunkards who hear the words of prophecy and yet continue to mock God by making baby sounds and mocking the spirit of judgment slain in the spirt falling backwards . They the drunks called the prophet Peter a drunk in verse 13 . God had taken away there understanding and maocked them in the same way they mocked the word of God prophecy (the tongue of God

Pentecost. . .Acts 2: 13 Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine.

It easy to see why they reject the foundation or the law of the Tongues by trying to destroy power of Christ's faith that does work in those who can believe.

Note . . .(my added opinion) to make a point
Note. . . (athiest ) no faith from hearing God
Note . . . ( prophecy) or those affected by it .new born again life
Note. . .( power of God) as the law of God

1Corithians 14:21-22 In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord. Wherefore tongues (understandable words) are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.

Its easy to se the sign as prophecy condemns them . . not lift them up .

To the law of prophecy the tongue of God Isaiah 28 :9 -12

God Wants to Help His People

Isaiah 28 :9 -12The people say, “Who does he think he is trying to teach and explain his message to? Does he think we are babies who were at their mother’s breast only a very short time ago? He speaks to us as though we were babies:

“Saw lasaw saw lasaw
Qaw laqaw qaw laqaw
Ze’er sham ze’er sham.”

So God will use this strange way of talking, and he will use other languages to speak to these people. In the past he spoke to them and said, “Here is a resting place. Let those who are tired come and rest. This is the place of peace.”But they would not listen to him. So the Lord’s words will be senseless sounds to them:

“Saw lasaw saw lasaw.
Qaw laqaw qaw laqaw.
Ze’er sham ze’er sham.”

When the people try to walk, they will fall backwards. They will be defeated, trapped, and captured.

 

[God's Truth]

While the gift of tongues is a good gift, it is not given to all born again believers, and it is not a gift a born again believer must possess in order to be regenerated from above or required as proof of regeneration.

Those that teach and preach that speaking in tongues is a REQUIRED sign of regeneration from above are not teaching the whole counsel of God's word, are not rightly dividing the word, are deliberately wresting God's word to their own destruction, and are no different than the pharisees of 2000 years ago who accused Jesus of blasphemy when HE healed on Sabbath.

Paul clearly says not all will receive the gift of tongues: "4There are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5There are differences of ministries, but the same Lord. 6And there are diversities of activities, but it is the same God who works all in all. 7But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to each one for the profit of all: 8for to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, to another the word of knowledge through the same Spirit, 9to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healings by the same Spirit, 10to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning of spirits, to another different kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues. 11But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually as He wills." 1 Corinthians 12:4-11.

Those of you who truly speak in a tongue gifted to you be the power of the Holy Spirit, hallelujah - praise God. But don't let it make you think that you're brother or sister in Christ who has a gift other than tongues is not as equally gifted and regenerated and saved.

"There was a certain nobleman whose son was sick at Capernaum. When he heard that Jesus had come out of Judea into Galilee, he went to Him and implored Him to come down and heal his son, for he was at the point of death. Then Jesus said to him, “Unless you people see signs and wonders, you will by no means believe.” John 4:46-48.

Speaking in tongues was a gift given during the laying of the foundation, it is a gift that has ceased, along with prophecies. The foundation has been laid a long time ago. There are no new prophecies and there are no tongues.

.

 

[vhusley]

Speaking in tongues was a gift given during the laying of the foundation, it is a gift that has ceased, along with prophecies. The foundation has been laid a long time ago. There are no new prophecies and there are no tongues.

.

The Bible doesn’t line up with what you are claiming. God’s Word does NOT say that tongues and prophesy ceased after the Apostolic Age or after the first Church Age nor that it would.

I’m sorry , but what you are claiming is based only on ONE verse and that ONE verse is being mishandled.
You must consider scripture in light of context but also in relation to the the fullness of God’s Word…….”rightly dividing the truth.”

You know, it’s really strange….
But It seems that people (or at least many) who haven’t spoken in tongues or truly experienced the gift of prophesy in operation, almost act as if they don’t WANT it to be true. Almost like, “If I can’t have it or truly experience it…..I don’t want it to be true for anyone else either.” So they’ll hang on one verse (1Corin13:8) as “proof”….when this verse in fact does the opposite…..it justifies and confirms that the miraculous gifts are still for today…..as does much other scripture! Scripture stands upon scripture!
Be blessed friend.

 

[Garee]

The Bible doesn’t line up with what you are claiming. God’s Word does NOT say that tongues and prophesy ceased after the Apostolic Age or after the first Church Age nor that it would.

I’m sorry , but what you are claiming is based only on ONE verse and that ONE verse is being mishandled.
You must consider scripture in light of context but also in relation to the the fullness of God’s Word…….”rightly dividing the truth.”

You know, it’s really strange….
But It seems that people (or at least many) who haven’t spoken in tongues or truly experienced the gift of prophesy in operation, almost act as if they don’t WANT it to be true. Almost like, “If I can’t have it or truly experience it…..I don’t want it to be true for anyone else either.” So they’ll hang on one verse (1Corin13:8) as “proof”….when this verse in fact does the opposite…..it justifies and confirms that the miraculous gifts are still for today…..as does much other scripture! Scripture stands upon scripture!
Be blessed friend.

The warning were given beforehand .The perfect or complete book of prophecy had come the closing chapter or book (Revelation ) along with it a warning to those who seek after a sign to wonder after before they would beleive in a God not seen .The warning remains we are not to add or substract from the whole. Revelation is still the closing chapter sealed with seven seals till the end of time . Satan still has all power in lying wonders that can deceive and deny the law sealed with seven seals. You could say Satan calls it a lie just like the fall you will not die.

In that way believers can hear prophecy or the understanding coming from God and yoked with Christ they can finish the work making our load lighter with a living hope.


1 Corihtinans 13: 9-11 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. But when that which is perfect (complete) is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

Face to face or faith to faith in the revealed knowledge. . . as it is written .The dark vail , when Jesus said "it is finished" was torn from the top to the bottom There was no Jewish King sitting in the Holy of Holies . The King of kings and lord of lords reforming , restoring the government of two. The government of faith . The unseen father working in and with his adopted children of men as born against sons of God called the elect . Satan could no longer deceive all the nations a man must become a outward Jew according to the flesh and not a inward Jew according to the unseen Spirt of Christ that dwelt in them with them. God is the adopting father of all nations and tribes of men.

Mathew 24:22-26 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. Behold, I have told you before. Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

It would seem the elect hear the prophecy and are empowered to produce the fruit not to add or subtract from the whole or perfect.

 

[Samson2020]

The warning were given beforehand .The perfect or complete book of prophecy had come the closing chapter or book (Revelation ) along with it a warning to those who seek after a sign to wonder after before they would beleive in a God not seen .The warning remains we are not to add or substract from the whole. Revelation is still the closing chapter sealed with seven seals till the end of time . Satan still has all power in lying wonders that can deceive and deny the law sealed with seven seals. You could say Satan calls it a lie just like the fall you will not die.

In that way believers can hear prophecy or the understanding coming from God and yoked with Christ they can finish the work making our load lighter with a living hope.


1 Corihtinans 13: 9-11 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. But when that which is perfect (complete) is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

Face to face or faith to faith in the revealed knowledge. . . as it is written .The dark vail , when Jesus said "it is finished" was torn from the top to the bottom There was no Jewish King sitting in the Holy of Holies . The King of kings and lord of lords reforming , restoring the government of two. The government of faith . The unseen father working in and with his adopted children of men as born against sons of God called the elect . Satan could no longer deceive all the nations a man must become a outward Jew according to the flesh and not a inward Jew according to the unseen Spirt of Christ that dwelt in them with them. God is the adopting father of all nations and tribes of men.

Mathew 24:22-26 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. Behold, I have told you before. Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

It would seem the elect hear the prophecy and are empowered to produce the fruit not to add or subtract from the whole or perfect.

Have you never heard the voice of the Lord?

 

[jd01]

While the gift of tongues is a good gift, it is not given to all born again believers, and it is not a gift a born again believer must possess in order to be regenerated from above or required as proof of regeneration.

Those that teach and preach that speaking in tongues is a REQUIRED sign of regeneration from above are not teaching the whole counsel of God's word, are not rightly dividing the word, are deliberately wresting God's word to their own destruction, and are no different than the pharisees of 2000 years ago who accused Jesus of blasphemy when HE healed on Sabbath.

Paul clearly says not all will receive the gift of tongues: "4There are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5There are differences of ministries, but the same Lord. 6And there are diversities of activities, but it is the same God who works all in all. 7But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to each one for the profit of all: 8for to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, to another the word of knowledge through the same Spirit, 9to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healings by the same Spirit, 10to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning of spirits, to another different kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues. 11But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually as He wills." 1 Corinthians 12:4-11.

Those of you who truly speak in a tongue gifted to you be the power of the Holy Spirit, hallelujah - praise God. But don't let it make you think that you're brother or sister in Christ who has a gift other than tongues is not as equally gifted and regenerated and saved.

"There was a certain nobleman whose son was sick at Capernaum. When he heard that Jesus had come out of Judea into Galilee, he went to Him and implored Him to come down and heal his son, for he was at the point of death. Then Jesus said to him, “Unless you people see signs and wonders, you will by no means believe.” John 4:46-48.

No, because Jesus did not teach (or mention) speaking in tongues.

 

[God's Truth]

The Bible doesn’t line up with what you are claiming. God’s Word does NOT say that tongues and prophesy ceased after the Apostolic Age or after the first Church Age nor that it would.

I’m sorry , but what you are claiming is based only on ONE verse and that ONE verse is being mishandled.
You must consider scripture in light of context but also in relation to the the fullness of God’s Word…….”rightly dividing the truth.”

The gift of tongues is a gift for a sign to the Jews (Isaiah 28:11, 12; 1 Cor 14:21; Acts 2:5, 8, Acts 10:44), during the laying of the foundation of the church. Speaking in tongues by the Gentiles also showed the Jews that God granted even the Gentiles repentance unto life (Acts 11:18). The sign has been given, and the foundation has since been laid (Eph 2:20), and tongues has ceased just as the Bible said it would.

You know, it’s really strange….
But It seems that people (or at least many) who haven’t spoken in tongues or truly experienced the gift of prophesy in operation, almost act as if they don’t WANT it to be true. Almost like, “If I can’t have it or truly experience it…..I don’t want it to be true for anyone else either.” So they’ll hang on one verse (1Corin13:8) as “proof”….when this verse in fact does the opposite…..it justifies and confirms that the miraculous gifts are still for today…..as does much other scripture! Scripture stands upon scripture!
Be blessed friend.

After I was saved, I was talked into believing speaking in tongues was real for our days, and I was taught how to do it and I even believed I could interpret what was said. One day someone asked me to teach them about it so I went to the Bible to give them scriptures on it, but then realized it was not right what I was doing. I realized I was not careful about accepting teachings by mere humans, and should have checked with the Bible before I accepted something as truth.

The believers in the Bible times who spoke in tongues, they spoke in tongues supernaturally. The believers who supposedly speak in tongues nowadays, they speak gibberish and believe God turns their gibberish into supernatural language, and that is a false doctrine.

 

[God's Truth]

Have you never heard the voice of the Lord?

I have, and, even after Jesus speaking to me and saving me, I still had to be careful and watch my life and doctrine carefully.

1 Timothy 4:16 Watch your life and doctrine closely. Persevere in them, because if you do, you will save both yourself and your hearers.

 

[Samson2020]

I have, and, even after Jesus speaking to me and saving me, I still had to be careful and watch my life and doctrine carefully.

1 Timothy 4:16 Watch your life and doctrine closely. Persevere in them, because if you do, you will save both yourself and your hearers.

Have you ever had the opportunity to cast out an unclean spirit, or lay hands on the sick that have then recovered?

 

[God's Truth]

Have you ever had the opportunity to cast out an unclean spirit, or lay hands on the sick that have then recovered?

You are now trying to justify speaking in tongues and prophecies that have ceased with things that have not ceased.

The Bible doesn't say that God will no longer heal people.

God just doesn't heal people and do the exact same miracles as He used to do while the foundation was being laid.

When the foundation was being laid, God testified to what the Apostle said by allowing them to do many miraculous things, like raising people from the dead after four days, and healing those born blind and those born paralyzed.

. Hebrews 2:2 This salvation, which was first announced by the Lord, was confirmed to us by those who heard him. 4 God also testified to it by signs, wonders and various miracles, and by gifts of the Holy Spirit distributed according to his will.

 

[Samson2020]

You are now trying to justify speaking in tongues and prophecies that have ceased with things that have not ceased.

The Bible doesn't say that God will no longer heal people.

God just doesn't heal people and do the exact same miracles as He used to do while the foundation was being laid.

When the foundation was being laid, God testified to what the Apostle said by allowing them to do many miraculous things, like raising people from the dead after four days, and healing those born blind and those born paralyzed.

. Hebrews 2:2 This salvation, which was first announced by the Lord, was confirmed to us by those who heard him. 4 God also testified to it by signs, wonders and various miracles, and by gifts of the Holy Spirit distributed according to his will.

Well All I can say is that I have done them all, with exception of dead back to life. What was then still is as the Bible has not been added to nor has Jesus returned to begin the reign.
Just a curious question, Why would Jesus tell us that those signs should follow the believer, then take them away at some point in the future prior to His return? And exactly when
did that occur AD1200, 300, 100.......?

 

[God's Truth]

Well All I can say is that I have done them all, with exception of dead back to life. What was then still is as the Bible has not been added to nor has Jesus returned to begin the reign.

You are saying you gave a person born blind their eyesight back, and a person born paralyzed was able to walk?

Just a curious question, Why would Jesus tell us that those signs should follow the believer, then take them away at some point in the future prior to His return? And exactly when
did that occur AD1200, 300, 100.......?

Jesus told his Apostles that they would be able to do those miraculous things, it was for a testimony from God that what they taught was from Him, and it was during the laying of the foundation. Jesus is the perfect that came the first time, and we have the perfect law given, and the way for humans to be made perfect is made known. It is finished, you can't add anything to it, the foundation has been laid and the testimony has been given, and we have everything we need to know to guide us to eternal life.

 

[Garee]

Have you never heard the voice of the Lord?

The voice of his interpretation as it is written yes . Hopefully its the same voice as it is written as law that works in you also .The mutaul work of one faith that works in all belivers

In that way He is the source or storeroom of faith. He as the golden measure accredits us with little not of our own self .

2 Corinthians 4:13 We having the same spirit of faith, according as it is written, I believed, and therefore have I spoken; we also believe, and therefore speak;


Matthew 8:26 And he saith unto them, Why are ye fearful, O ye of little faith? Then he arose, and rebuked the winds and the sea; and there was a great calm.


Matthew 6:30 Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the field, which to day is, and to morrow is cast into the oven, shall he not much more clothe you, O ye of little faith?

Matthew 8:26 And he saith unto them, Why are ye fearful, O ye of little faith? Then he arose, and rebuked the winds and the sea; and there was a great calm.

Matthew 14:31 And immediately Jesus stretched forth his hand, and caught him, and said unto him, O thou of little faith, wherefore didst thou doubt?

Matthew 16:8 Which when Jesus perceived, he said unto them, O ye of little faith, why reason ye among yourselves, because ye have brought no bread?

Luke 12:28 If then God so clothe the grass, which is to day in the field, and to morrow is cast into the oven; how much more will he clothe you, O ye of little faith?

Again Christians are accredited with little faith that is not of them to begin with giving us the power to not doubt .

 

[Samson2020]

You are saying you gave a person born blind their eyesight back, and a person born paralyzed was able to walk?

Thats not what He said. He said they shall lay their hands on the sick and they shall recover. Does Heart disease and inoperable cancer count??

Jesus told his Apostles that they would be able to do those miraculous things, it was for a testimony from God that what they taught was from Him, and it was during the laying of the foundation. Jesus is the perfect that came the first time, and we have the perfect law given, and the way for humans to be made perfect is made known.

Probably should reread that as it was God that was doing the miraculous works just as He did with Jesus in order to validate the words Jesus spoke.

 

[God's Truth]

Thats not what He said. He said they shall lay their hands on the sick and they shall recover. Does Heart disease and inoperable cancer count??

Again, God still heals people in miraculous ways, but not exactly like it was during the laying of the foundation when God was testifying to what the Apostles taught.

The Apostles were allowed to do things, for they were sent by Jesus, as Jesus was sent.

There are no more Apostles, and the foundation has been laid, and God already testified to the message.

Probably should reread that as it was God that was doing the miraculous works just as He did with Jesus in order to validate the words Jesus spoke.

I already said that and gave the scripture.

God allowed the Apostles to do miraculous things as God's testimony that what the Apostles were saying was from Him.

 

[Samson2020]

Again, God still heals people in miraculous ways, but not exactly like it was during the laying of the foundation when God was testifying to what the Apostles taught.

The Apostles were allowed to do things, for they were sent by Jesus, as Jesus was sent.

There are no more Apostles, and the foundation has been laid, and God already testified to the message.


I already said that and gave the scripture.

God allowed the Apostles to do miraculous things as God's testimony that what the Apostles were saying was from Him.

Whats your definition of an Apostle?
I have been told by the Lord what to do and what to say to a particular person and sent to do so.

I am only saying that nothing has changed since the beginning, as to you saying things have changed but there is no reason to suggest anything has changed for the "church age"
is still in progress.
People are still being chosen by the Father and subsequently baptized in the Holy Ghost and with fire by Jesus. So why again should one part change while the rest is still happening?