Speaking in Tongues: Required for Regeneration?.
- Thread starter JerryfromMass
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Thanks I can try. It I believe it is shown in a couple of ways. First and foremost no manner of prophecy. . "the declaring tongue of God" is of any "private interpretation” or personal commentary. Therefore he would not make senseless sounds without meaning and say go find someone to give you my understanding .We are warned of the antichrists in 1 John2:27-28. Those who say we do need mankind to teach He lovingly commands us to abide in Him who adides in us as it is written. . We can plant the seeds and water them but Christ the teacher and comforter must do the teaching work. We serve one good teaching Master as Lord in that way.And are to call no man on earth Master Teacher .Again we can plant the seeds and water them but he must give a new born again spirit the increase.
2 Peter 1:20-21 King James Version (KJV) Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
In that way the Bible informs us there must be heresies amongst us as personal opinions. The kingdom of God does not come through observing the temporal things but does come by the witness of God, as it is written . . .faith to faith.
1 John 5:9 If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.
In that way God is no longer bringing any new revelations .Revelation is still the last bok sealed with a warining not to add or subtract form the whole. We have the perfect by which we can see him “face to face” or “faith to faith.There are no laws missing by which we could know him more intimately
The tongue of Gods is the witness God has spoken to our new born again hearts. The witness of God is greater shown by the witness of His Son. The work of two working as one. The government of His peace that works in the believers new heart. .
Bob Carabbio
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And they were all inaccurate. Salvation is the HOLY SPIRIT INDWELLING a person. Speaking in tongues is the Holy Spirit ON a person, as it was in the Old Testament. The AG NEVER TAUGHT that "tongues" was necessary for salvation.
I would ask what kind of a salvation? A teaching salvation by the HOLY SPIRIT INDWELLING a person? If tongues are babble senseless sounds how could it be a matter of anything but babble, confusion and non-order? It would seem to having nothing to do with the good news gospel . It opposses it in the end .
21 In the law( Isaiah 28) it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord. Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.
The unseen sign for the beleiver is they believe prophecy the tongue of God .
The sign of tongues is against them who make sounds and fall backward. not the beliver that folow prophecy God's interptation yto mankind
The foundation of the tongues doctrines (Isaiah 28) must be isearched out by rightfuly dividing .
If a person destroys the foundation of the doctrines of God then as an oral tradition they can go wherever their own mouths says. The unbelieving Jew was noted for mocking prophecy the tongue of God. (Sola scriptura) mocking the spirit of judgment. Slain in the spirit falling back or backward .also called breaking the neck
PloughBoy
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I have been observing. my head kept going back and forth. And this came to mind.
New Living Translation
"Even so, if unbelievers or people who don’t understand these things come into your church meeting and hear everyone speaking in an unknown language, they will think you are crazy."
And they will hear in "plain English"! Right now, they are not going to understand, because what they are hearing, is also a "Unknown Tongue". I can see them scratching their heads.
New Living Translation
"Even so, if unbelievers or people who don’t understand these things come into your church meeting and hear everyone speaking in an unknown language, they will think you are crazy."
And they will hear in "plain English"! Right now, they are not going to understand, because what they are hearing, is also a "Unknown Tongue". I can see them scratching their heads.
Waggles
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That is why Jesus through Paul gives clear instructions to the Spirit-filled church on orderly worship and operation of the three voice gifts of the Holy Spirit -I have been observing. my head kept going back and forth. And this came to mind.
New Living Translation
"Even so, if unbelievers or people who don’t understand these things come into your church meeting and hear everyone speaking in an unknown language, they will think you are crazy."
And they will hear in "plain English"! Right now, they are not going to understand, because what they are hearing, is also a "Unknown Tongue". I can see them scratching their heads.
1Corinthians 14:26-40 which is how we do it at our worship services.
the gift of tongues followed by the gift of interpretation (up to 3 times) and then up to 3 gifts of prophecy (inspired speaking). simple and straightforward
1Corinthians 14:39 So, my brothers, earnestly desire to prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues.
PloughBoy
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"That is why Jesus through Paul gives clear instructions to the Spirit-filled church"
Sorry but, I am curious; what does that Terminology means: "the Spirit-filled church"? and where did that term come from? Explicitly.
Now here in: Context and Paragraphic form as it was written. According to "The Original Copied Manuscript".
I am not attacking you. Just for sound clarity. For i know what a "Spirit-filled Believer in Christ is" because the Bible defines it.
(1 Corinthian 14) NASB
"Brothers and sisters, do not be children in your thinking; yet in evil be infants, but in your thinking be mature. In the Law it is written: “BY MEN OF STRANGE Languages AND BY THE LIPS OF STRANGERS I WILL SPEAK TO THIS PEOPLE, AND EVEN SO THEY WILL NOT LISTEN TO ME,” says the Lord. So then, Languages are for a sign, not to those who believe but to unbelievers; but prophecy is not for unbelievers, but for those who believe."
Waggles
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The Spirit-filled church is where all the members are baptised in the Holy Spirit and where the gifts of the Holy Spirit are made manifest in the body by believers.
Most mainstrean traditional churches are not Spirit-filled.
Mark 16:15 And he said to them, Go into all the world, and preach the gospel to the whole creation.
16:16 Who hath believed and is baptized shall be saved; but who hath disbelieved shall be condemned.
16:17 And these signs shall follow them that have believed: in my name shall they cast out demons, speak with tongues;
16:18 and in their hands they shall take up serpents, and if they drink aught deadly, it shall in now wise hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
1Corinthians 12:7 But to each is given the manifestation of the Spirit to profit.
12:8 For to one is given through the Spirit a word of wisdom; and to another a word of knowledge, according to the same Spirit:
12:9 to another faith, in the same Spirit; and to another gifts of healings, in the one Spirit;
12:10 and to another workings of powers; and to another prophecy; and to another discernings of spirits: to another kinds of tongues; and to another interpretation of tongues;
12:11 but all these worketh the one and the same Spirit, dividing to each severally even as he willeth.
Most mainstrean traditional churches are not Spirit-filled.
Mark 16:15 And he said to them, Go into all the world, and preach the gospel to the whole creation.
16:16 Who hath believed and is baptized shall be saved; but who hath disbelieved shall be condemned.
16:17 And these signs shall follow them that have believed: in my name shall they cast out demons, speak with tongues;
16:18 and in their hands they shall take up serpents, and if they drink aught deadly, it shall in now wise hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
1Corinthians 12:7 But to each is given the manifestation of the Spirit to profit.
12:8 For to one is given through the Spirit a word of wisdom; and to another a word of knowledge, according to the same Spirit:
12:9 to another faith, in the same Spirit; and to another gifts of healings, in the one Spirit;
12:10 and to another workings of powers; and to another prophecy; and to another discernings of spirits: to another kinds of tongues; and to another interpretation of tongues;
12:11 but all these worketh the one and the same Spirit, dividing to each severally even as he willeth.
B-A-C
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It would seem that if it is original, it wouldn't be copied. If it is copied, it wouldn't be original.
John 3:3; Jesus answered and said to him, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God."
John 3:4; Nicodemus *said to Him, "How can a man be born when he is old? He cannot enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born, can he?"
John 3:5; Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
John 3:6; "That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
John 3:7; "Do not be amazed that I said to you, 'You must be born again.'
Rom 8:9; However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him.
Acts 2:4; And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit was giving them utterance.
Eph 5:18; And do not get drunk with wine, for that is dissipation, but be filled with the Spirit,
Acts 9:17; So Ananias departed and entered the house, and after laying his hands on him said, "Brother Saul, the Lord Jesus, who appeared to you on the road by which you were coming, has sent me so that you may regain your sight and be filled with the Holy Spirit."
PloughBoy
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Who made that definition up, you? a committee, or just a group just sitting drinking coffee. And if so, by who's "authority" that made that statement "Authoritative".
I didn't ask for a list of portions out of context "translated words" from the "Original Copied Manuscript of the New Testament' of The Codex Alexandrinus.
I already know what the Book says: You do not have to repeat it to me, what the translated BOOK says.
You did answer the 1 question. The definition.
The second part of that question, you didn't.
Now I have ask one more on top of that one part you miss.
For Clarity.
Because, GOD did not raise us up to be Toss to and from by every wind and doctrine and the cunning of men.
We who are the "Sons of GOD" are to examine everything. Every dot and Tittle. And if we don't, our Father will "Discipline and Scourge"us very hard.
All "Sons of GOD" knows this Truth. Babes and the children of GOD, have to learn this TRUTH, the hard way.
Kids growing up in the 21 century household do not understand this type of learning "Truth"
again, ok you don't have to quote scripture to me, it is in me! When a person writes me and I read the words they have spoken, And Then the "Holy Scriptures" replies in my mind, before i even think it!l So most of the time I just listen, I don't think this stuff up! The word is a alive, in me! You do remember about what Jesus said, about what comes out of His mouth. And He is only example how we should speak and hear.
I been having so much fun! "The Advocate" is real! "Paraketos"! No wonder Jesus said: Don't go nowhere, wait for HIM until He comes! And He is not going to never leave you! For He will dwell In you! Thank GOD, That Jesus is not a Liar!
Many don't have "The Advocate" from above but we do! And we do not "Order" Him. for He is The Paraketos, We follow! we are "Bondslaves" yet Sons.
We have excepted Some "translations" as Authoritative, All that are in the "CANON OF SCRIPTURE" you know that. if the "translation" has not been "Canonize" we don't except that as The WORD of GOD, I don't care how big a print of "B I B L E" is on the Cover. If it is not "Canonize" it is not the "Word of GOD". you know that.
So the Question, who "Authorize" that statement and by what or who's "Authority" was it "Authorize"? 'relating to the Spirit filled church'
[[The Spirit-filled church is where all the members are baptised in the Holy Spirit and where the gifts of the Holy Spirit are made manifest in the body by believers.
Most main strean traditional churches are not Spirit-filled.]]
PloughBoy
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The Codex Alexandrinus. which many of us prefer The Textus Receptus.
PloughBoy
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If a person is interested in doctrine of the tongue of God .The foundation for that doctrine is as a law spoken of in 1 Corinthians 14:21-2 it is found in Isaiah 28 .
It shows men refuse to get under the hearing of faith as it is written(sola scriptura) and therefore they mock God making senseless noises and falling back slain in the Spirit of Christ.
All believers from the moment they first believe receive the fullness of the Holy Spirit an unseen work that works in them.
Signs as metaphors used in parables shall follow them that have believed: Not something one seeks after for self-edification or self-righteousness
In His name shall they cast out demons, speak with new tongues. (The gospel of Christ) The word of God cast out demons and in their hands to represent a will they shall take up serpent’s false prophecy, and if they drink in the lying words . . . deadly, it shall in no wise deceive them. hurt
Bob Carabbio
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NO major Pentecostal Denomination HAS EVER TAUGHT that one must speak in tongues to be Born Again. The only exception being the "Oneness Pentecostal" heretics.
vhusley
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So this is the Apostle Paul....obviously giving the church correction on use/abuse of the Spiritual gifts as well as on speaking tongues (beyond the Spiritual gift). He is teaching them the right and orderly way to operate. One does not require a degree in theology to understand this. Moving past this, is there anywhere in Paul's writings where he tells believers that they should never speak in tongues?I have been observing. my head kept going back and forth. And this came to mind.
New Living Translation
"Even so, if unbelievers or people who don’t understand these things come into your church meeting and hear everyone speaking in an unknown language, they will think you are crazy."
And they will hear in "plain English"! Right now, they are not going to understand, because what they are hearing, is also a "Unknown Tongue". I can see them scratching their heads.
Waggles
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We, The Revival Fellowship, do preach this.
A person MUST be born from above by water baptism and Holy Spirit baptism with the Bible evidence of speaking in tongues.
And everybody in our church has done this.
Why make the foundation of the doctrine of tongue without effect Its the law spoken of and revisited in 1 Corthians 14 . Yet they still refused to hear prophecy the word of Gods' tongue.
Why would a whole church subject themselves to those who make noises without meaning and fall backward as slain in the spirt. That spells someone has violated the the "spirit of Judgment" (those who do fall back slain in the spirit ) when looking at the foundation of tongue God speaking prophecy
Where does the senseless noise all come from and falling back slain in the spirit seeing it provides no understanding like baby talk ?
God promised to hide the understanding of those who follow another gospel. another Christ. (I heard it through the grape vine )They thought Peter was drunk when the 3000 from all the nations believed God's prophecy . So God did use this strange way of talking hiding the understanding of those who fall backward mocking the spirt of judgement , he will used other languages to speak to these people.
Isaiah 28 :9 -12The people say, “Who does he think he is trying to teach and explain his message to? Does he think we are babies who were at their mother’s breast only a very short time ago? He speaks to us as though we were babies:“ Saw lasaw saw lasawQaw laqaw qaw laqawZe’er sham ze’er sham.” So God will use this strange way of talking, and he will use other languages to speak to these people.In the past he spoke to them and said, “Here is a resting place. Let those who are tired come and rest. This is the place of peace.” But they would not listen to him. So the Lord’s words will be senseless sounds to them: “Saw lasaw saw lasaw. Qaw laqaw qaw laqaw. Ze’er sham ze’er sham.” When the people try to walk, they will fall backwards. They will be defeated, trapped, and captured.
I have been observing. my head kept going back and forth. And this came to mind.
New Living Translation
"Even so, if unbelievers or people who don’t understand these things come into your church meeting and hear everyone speaking in an unknown language, they will think you are crazy."
And they will hear in "plain English"! Right now, they are not going to understand, because what they are hearing, is also a "Unknown Tongue". I can see them scratching their heads.
Exactly maybe its a requirement fill one self up with "lets get crazy."?Who told their congregation they are not already filled from the moment they exercised faith, the power by which can believe prophecy, the Tongue of God ? When will there be enough?
Surely there is no commandment to go out and find someone to give a infallible interpretation . . we are warned of those who say we do need and man to teach us.
Bob Carabbio
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Good for you. I wonder if they're "REAL" tongues, or something your bunch "TAUGHT THEM' to do (happens more often that you think. I've seen it in the AG) by telling 'em to "Prime the pump" with baby talk or making random sounds.. When there's enough "Peer pressure" you can get folks to "comply" with your format, and probably not even know the difference.
Bottom line, the Disciples were "Born again", and indwelled by the Holy Spirit at John 20:22. Acts 2 is a subsequent clothing with power applied to folks who ALREADY had the Holy Spirit Indwelling.
SO What POWER IN MINISTRY are you demonstrating daily to your community??
